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This is absurd!!
Good pitching beats good hitting...period. Give me 2 studs on the mound and I'll ride those arms all the way to Omaha, and prolly much further. If anyone legitimately thinks that a good offense with a 5+ ERA pitching staff is a path to a championship then they are either stupid or are completely out of touch with the reality of the sport.
You think you can surround 2 stud pitchers with our lineup and bullpen this year and go to Omaha?Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
Teams in Omaha this year:
Pitching(ERA):
2 TCU
10 Cal St. Fullerton
11 LSU
13 Vanderbilt
27 Florida
28 Miami (FL)
55 Virginia
104 Arkansas
Average - #31.25
Hitting(BA):
4 LSU
7 Miami (FL)
26 Florida
50 Vanderbilt
65 Arkansas
74 TCU
150 Virginia
211 Cal St. Fullerton
Average - #73.37
It paints a pretty clear picture of which is more important.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Maybe if Houston, Reynolds, and Hudson started the year like they finished it. I say, falseQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
I take that back. If Cohen abused college pitchers like most college coaches, we might have. Those 2 studs, better be complete game studs though bc our pen was garbage. They couldn't hold a 5-run lead against our rival in the 9th. How many other late collapses were there?
When ucla rode their pitching to a natty, it was more than 2 starters
It was 2 elite starters and an elite closer. Those 3 guys threw 60% of their total innings on the year and nearly every inning while in Omaha. It's a myth that it takes pitching depth to win while in Omaha. The only time in postseason baseball where pitching depth is really key is a situation where you fall into the loser's bracket of a regional. It plays in the SEC tourney, but it's not like that matters much one way or another. UCLA had an average 3rd starter and a bad midweek guy. And 2 pretty good middle relievers that threw about 40 innings each.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
For reference, their closer threw about as many innings that year as Austin Sexton threw for us this year. UCLA is as distinct as any case ever of riding 3 arms to a title.
And also, your comment was "take 2 elite starters and surround them with our pen and bats" -- which already makes the assumption that two of them improved to elite status. If we have 2 Strattonesque jr arms -- we are probably going to host and have a great chance to be CWS bound.
So, I guess it takes more than 2 starters, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
"2 stud pitchers surrounded by our bullpen" is more than 2 starters as well, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
No one anywhere in this thread said "it only takes 2 starters to go to Omaha". You were talking about adding 2 stud starters to what we have otherwise. You add 2 Strattons to what we otherwise have -- I'll book my room in Omaha right now.
I thought my argument was that we need more than 2 stud starters... Oh well, I'm just arguing to be arguing at this point. Hurry up football... This place is D E A DQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
Well according to certain posters, it is all to easy at this level to hit even stud pitchers who have good stuff. So maybe offense is the only way to go. Just can't figure out why the majority of the time it's the teams with pitching that win more.***Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Two guys that go 7+ every weekend takes a huge toll off the pen and they would have been better.
Maybe so. I just think we were a few pieces away even with 2 studs:Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
1. Good defensive catcher
2. Closer
3. 3b that can play defense
Couldn't you argue that we had 2 stud starters (Stratton and graveman in '12) and didn't make it out of regional?
Graveman was not what I would call a stud in 2012, and even as such, we had the second best pitching staff in the country in 2012. That was a terrible hitting team notably worse across the board than our current team and that, along with getting shipped to one of the least pitcher-friendly parks in the country, was what prevented our advancement.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
8 of the top 10 pitching teams in the country this year did not make it to Omaha. That doesn't even remotely mean that hitting is more important than pitching. 7 of the 8 were at least borderline elite pitching staffs. 4 of the 8 were borderline elite hitting teams.
Graveman is one of my all time favorite dawgs. He was a battler and I love his stuff and how he used...said multiple times on here that his stuff would translate great to the pro game...BUT he was not a stud at the college level IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
To change it up slightly even, think about if we'd had lindgren and holder this year with everything else being equal. Those guys in the pen with the same rotation most likely get us to a regional.
Hunter Renfroe hit a HR to put us in the title game.
A regional and cws are 2 entirely different things. I do think those 2 get us to a regional thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
Looks like you have a minimum of quality pitching to get there but also hitting. Unless you have 2 Elite pitchers and an elite closer you have to have the bats.
UCLA won the title but had 2 all American starters. We have had 1 in the 7 years Cohen has been here, Stratton.
We cobbled together an elite pitching staff in 2013 but replace Renfroe and Frazier with our usual and we might not make it to Omaha.
On this:Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
1. Lovelady is elite back there. We've got to see improvement at the plate. Wouldn't be shocked to see Marrero factor here either. Marrero most likely isn't a "normal" freshman situation given his upbringing...
2. I think 3 of the 5 in the Cape step up next year. At least. None have shown a closer mentality yet to me though. So, this is a notable concern. But it hasn't been all that long ago that Holder was elite in this role for us as a freshman. So, there is precedence there for it to happen under this staff. We've got a number of freshmen with the stuff to fill this role. Will they have the mental side? Yet to be seen...
3. Hard to consider this an absolute must when we went to Omaha last time with Sam Frost and Alex Detz over there. I think Reynolds is better than both of those defensively now, while certainly not elite...
25% of the field in Omaha is made up of literally below average hitting teams. One that is way below average.