My God- watching the 2007 Egg Bowl is sickening

Croom is an NFL position coach. We gave him a shot to be a college head coach and he failed miserably. It pisses me off that we get any criticism for firing him. I think the fact that no one else has hired him as a college head coach or even coordinator speaks for itself.
Its been a while since I watched the "Croom" but I seem to remember Saban sticking up for him at one point. I wish someone would ask Saban that if Croom is such a great coach why he is not on his staff. (If I'm not remembering correctly just disregard the last statement).

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Originally Posted by Dawgtini

I was surprised that Wes Carrol left when mullenz was hired. I thought he might have flourished in this offense.

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But that would have denied us the joy of arguing about if true freshman Tyler Russell would have been better than Tyson Lee. Get your priorities straight mane!***

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Originally Posted by Dawgtini

I was surprised that Wes Carrol left when mullenz was hired. I thought he might have flourished in this offense.

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Yea, that one never made much sense to me unless he was just homesick. I mean you leave an SEC school with a QB coaching guru coming in as a HC to leave for somewhere like FL International? Of course he did lose his starting job to Lee in 2008 under Croom so his mind may have already been made up even before we hired Mullen.

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Originally Posted by Dawgtini

I was surprised that Wes Carrol left when mullenz was hired. I thought he might have flourished in this offense.

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Wes Carroll had decided to leave before Mullen was hired. He was mad that he had to split time his sophomore year with Tyson Lee, and I saw his point at the time. Yes, it technically happened on Mullen's watch, but he was already disgruntled and had made his mind up to go home before that.

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Originally Posted by messageboardsuperhero

The quality of play was so bad... And to think that the media tried to shame Byrne for canning Croom.

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I do not remember this. I remember most of the media supporting the decision, including Mark May. They all knew it had to be done, PC or not. All of us fans knew that he was terrible in 2005.

To this day, I do not really give Croom credit for leaving Mullen a good base. I think the biggest thing he did was lower expectations so badly, that we were able to attract a good coach simply because they knew they could go to a bowl and it would be success. While he did get rid of some cancers, he also recruited his own cancerous players, and his teams were very undisciplined (despite all the media drabble), except Ellis Johnson's defense. He upgraded talent in some areas but drastically cut it in others.

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Originally Posted by fader2103

I tell you I know most hate Croom as a coach but he is a great man and truly cared for his players. I will always support all our former coaches (aslong as they don't coach against us that is)

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GAG ME WITH A SPOON

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Originally Posted by Coach34

how bad both those teams were.

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I would argue that the teams were no better and arguably worse in the 2011 Egg Bowl. Only difference is the coaches were better in 2011. Our 2007 team on the field was far better than 2011. 7-5 > 6-6 and 4-4 SEC > 2-6 SEC.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I would argue that the teams were no better and arguably worse in the 2011 Egg Bowl. Only difference is the coaches were better in 2011. Our 2007 team on the field was far better than 2011. 7-5 > 6-6 and 4-4 SEC > 2-6 SEC.

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Yeah this is not true. Our 2011 team would beat the 2007 team 8 out of 10 times. Those two losses would be due to turnovers and fluke pick-6's. In addition, the entire SEC elevated from 2007 to 2011. The 2007 team had LSU, while the 2011 SEC West had 3 of the top 5 teams in America.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I would argue that the teams were no better and arguably worse in the 2011 Egg Bowl. Only difference is the coaches were better in 2011. Our 2007 team on the field was far better than 2011. 7-5 > 6-6 and 4-4 SEC > 2-6 SEC.

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totally disagree. It would have taken 5 games for the 2007 team to score on the 2011 team

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

While he certainly is a great man from all indications and while I'm sure he cared deeply for his players he did very little to endear himself to the MSU fanbase. He never really embraced MSU because IMO he was too emotionally tied to the school 90 miles to the East. He never got involved in the community and I, to this day, couldn't tell you that Sly was married because his wife never showed her face in public ever that I'm aware of. He was stubborn and hardheaded to a fault and overall very antagonistic toward the fans relative to any criticism of how he was running the program. And I mean its great to be loyal to a friend but the whole Woody McCorvey fiasco was ridiculous. Without the 2007 year with Ellis Johnson's defense pretty much single handedly winning us 7 games the entire Croom tenure would be a string of nothing but disgraceful 3 and 4 win seasons.

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This is really the root of the Croom hate. He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was, but the people in the inner circle didn't like him. He was right to say on the 30 for 30 that he got no support because he didn't. Look at the facts: After leading us to our only winning season of the decade he was basically gone as a head coach for losing in an upset in the first game of the following season. That was shocking. Also, look at people's attitude toward his winning season, that it was all luck. I've never seen so many Bulldog fans pull against the Bulldogs.
Mullen seems to be working out. He's certainly got the schmooze factor mastered, unlike Croom. This next season we have a huge challenge ahead of us. We'll see how the fans react to whatever disappointments we encounter next season.
My problem is that fans put the coach at the pinnacle of the program even though the coach in always a temporary Bulldog. I think we've suffered a lot from inertia within the institution over the years.

Croom never had an offense ranked better than 100. For five straight years we had to watch shitty offense. He lost to Maine. MAINE

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

This is really the root of the Croom hate. He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was, but the people in the inner circle didn't like him. He was right to say on the 30 for 30 that he got no support because he didn't. Look at the facts: After leading us to our only winning season of the decade he was basically gone as a head coach for losing in an upset in the first game of the following season. That was shocking. Also, look at people's attitude toward his winning season, that it was all luck. I've never seen so many Bulldog fans pull against the Bulldogs.
Mullen seems to be working out. He's certainly got the schmooze factor mastered, unlike Croom. This next season we have a huge challenge ahead of us. We'll see how the fans react to whatever disappointments we encounter next season.
My problem is that fans put the coach at the pinnacle of the program even though the coach in always a temporary Bulldog. I think we've suffered a lot from inertia within the institution over the years.

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No, he WAS as bad a coach as people say at least as a HC in college. 3-8, 3-8, 3-9, 4-8 were his records outside of 2007 which was 8-5 and only that one year won more than 2 conference games in a season. And yes, 2007 was a TON of luck. I witnessed those games and I've never seen a season with so many defensive and special teams TDs to pull out close games in my life. It doesn't take much luck to get turnovers if you have a good defense but it does take a lot of luck for those turnovers to regularly translate into touchdowns without the offense ever having to come on the field. Anyone who thinks you can build a program long term off of depending on your defense to score a significant percentage of your points is just hoping against hope. We finished below 100th in total offense every year he coached. So not only did we not win 4 out of the 5 years he was here but we were totally boring to watch as well. But there is also no doubt that he was very defensive and seemed to keep his distance from the fanbase. Croom had never been thrust into the position of being the "PR man" of a program, which the HC is, and he didn't do a very good job with that part of the deal either.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

totally disagree. It would have taken 5 games for the 2007 team to score on the 2011 team

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I think you're reaching. The 2011 team didn't beat anyone with a pulse all season, and was no offensive juggernaut either. Are you forgetting the 20 points scored against La Tech in regulation, the 6 points against LSU, 12 against USC, 10 against UGA (7 of which was on a pick 6), 17 against Arkansas, 21 against UAB, and 7 against Alabama? Thats over half our SEC schedule that we didn't score over 17 points and exactly half of our nonconference schedule against much lesser competition that we didn't score over 21. That team was a joke offensively and it showed in the W-L record. Granted, this was in large part due to OL / QB injuries, as well as Croom's terrible OL recruiting that left us with no depth, but the point remains.

The 2007 team was comparable offensively in terms of numbers, but a little bit better defensively. They also got the job done in the close games and had some big road wins at Auburn and at UK in dominating fashion. UK was ranked in top 15 and beat eventual national champion that year on the same field that we skull dragged them.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

This is really the root of the Croom hate. He wasn't as bad a coach as people say he was, but the people in the inner circle didn't like him. He was right to say on the 30 for 30 that he got no support because he didn't. Look at the facts: After leading us to our only winning season of the decade he was basically gone as a head coach for losing in an upset in the first game of the following season. That was shocking. Also, look at people's attitude toward his winning season, that it was all luck. I've never seen so many Bulldog fans pull against the Bulldogs.
Mullen seems to be working out. He's certainly got the schmooze factor mastered, unlike Croom. This next season we have a huge challenge ahead of us. We'll see how the fans react to whatever disappointments we encounter next season.
My problem is that fans put the coach at the pinnacle of the program even though the coach in always a temporary Bulldog. I think we've suffered a lot from inertia within the institution over the years.

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No he was pretty bad. If you coach for 5 seasons & you have 1 winning season that's bad. Especially when you're not close to a winning season the other 4. 21-38 (10-30 SEC) is bad no matter how you slice it. The La Tech was the beginning of the end but it didn't get him fired. 45-0 to OM got him fired. His players got him fired when they decided not to show up & they didn't want to play for him anymore. That was the bottomline. We can talk about his offense & stubborness all we want but when the players lay down & stop playing for you then you know it's time for a change.

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Originally Posted by 5 Star

Yeah this is not true. Our 2011 team would beat the 2007 team 8 out of 10 times. Those two losses would be due to turnovers and fluke pick-6's. In addition, the entire SEC elevated from 2007 to 2011. The 2007 team had LSU, while the 2011 SEC West had 3 of the top 5 teams in America.

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I disagree for the reasons already noted in my response to Coach34. And in regards to your note about the strength of the SEC West, 2 of those 3 teams (Arkansas and LSU) beat us in 2007 as well and none of the 4 games played in either year were close. The only team that was worse in 2007 than 2011 that we beat in 07 was Alabama. Furthermore, our nonconference schedule was much tougher in 2007 with the road trip to a ranked WVU team, so the schedule comparison ends up being a wash overall.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I disagree for the reasons already noted in my response to Coach34. And in regards to your note about the strength of the SEC West, 2 of those 3 teams (Arkansas and LSU) beat us in 2007 as well and none of the 4 games played in either year were close. The only team that was worse in 2007 than 2011 that we beat in 07 was Alabama. Furthermore, our nonconference schedule was much tougher in 2007 with the road trip to a ranked WVU team, so the schedule comparison ends up being a wash overall.

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All insignificant statistics aside, who would win the game?

This is an easy pick.

2007 we won two games because the defense scored, Auburn and Alabama. Alabama was about to put us down 16-3 at the half and kick our a$$ses. That pic 6 changed the whole game. The system was not working. The defense is why we went 7-5.

Croom started losing me when he kept dumming down the most predicatable offense in the SEC instead of opening up the playbook. He wanted to win the Alabama way and win doing basic stuff that works for schools like Alabama because they usually have the hosses. We weren't going to out athlete the SEC at the Time. I got so tired of "we didn't execute." You know... sometimes the other guy is just kicking your a$$. If that DT is owning you, quit running at him 2 of 3 plays. Do something they don't expect. Sometimes the other guy whoops you because he is better than you not because you didn't execute. Do something else! Croom never could wrap his mind around that concept.

He lost me completely and instantly when he implied (2008) that the reason we weren't winning was we weren't getting enough defensive scores. Blamed. The. Defense. ...instead of his inept offense. He was in way over his head as a HC.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

No, he WAS as bad a coach as people say at least as a HC in college. 3-8, 3-8, 3-9, 4-8 were his records outside of 2007 which was 8-5 and only that one year won more than 2 conference games in a season. And yes, 2007 was a TON of luck. I witnessed those games and I've never seen a season with so many defensive and special teams TDs to pull out close games in my life. It doesn't take much luck to get turnovers if you have a good defense but it does take a lot of luck for those turnovers to regularly translate into touchdowns without the offense ever having to come on the field. Anyone who thinks you can build a program long term off of depending on your defense to score a significant percentage of your points is just hoping against hope. We finished below 100th in total offense every year he coached. So not only did we not win 4 out of the 5 years he was here but we were totally boring to watch as well. But there is also no doubt that he was very defensive and seemed to keep his distance from the fanbase. Croom had never been thrust into the position of being the "PR man" of a program, which the HC is, and he didn't do a very good job with that part of the deal either.

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After La. Tech, did Croom get any fan support? The answer is no. I stand by my statement that it was over then. A lot of people were waiting for any reason to build discord. They took full advantage of the La Tech fiasco with great success. Ironically, La Tech went bowling that year, as did I think every other team that beat us (except maybe one, not totally sure).

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Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew

No he was pretty bad. If you coach for 5 seasons & you have 1 winning season that's bad. Especially when you're not close to a winning season the other 4. 21-38 (10-30 SEC) is bad no matter how you slice it. The La Tech was the beginning of the end but it didn't get him fired. 45-0 to OM got him fired. His players got him fired when they decided not to show up & they didn't want to play for him anymore. That was the bottomline. We can talk about his offense & stubborness all we want but when the players lay down & stop playing for you then you know it's time for a change.

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Don't forget burning Ralph's redshirt in a 45-0 game last game of season.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

I think you're reaching. The 2011 team didn't beat anyone with a pulse all season, and was no offensive juggernaut either. Are you forgetting the 20 points scored against La Tech in regulation, the 6 points against LSU, 12 against USC, 10 against UGA (7 of which was on a pick 6), 17 against Arkansas, 21 against UAB, and 7 against Alabama? Thats over half our SEC schedule that we didn't score over 17 points and exactly half of our nonconference schedule against much lesser competition that we didn't score over 21. That team was a joke offensively and it showed in the W-L record. Granted, this was in large part due to OL / QB injuries, as well as Croom's terrible OL recruiting that left us with no depth, but the point remains.

The 2007 team was comparable offensively in terms of numbers, but a little bit better defensively. They also got the job done in the close games and had some big road wins at Auburn and at UK in dominating fashion. UK was ranked in top 15 and beat eventual national champion that year on the same field that we skull dragged them.

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2011 had some injury issues and that caused some offensive problems- but let's compare:

2011:

25.3 PPG
18.5 1st downs per game
Total O- 357.2 per game
5.39 yards per play

2007:

21.5 PPG
Total O- 297.2 per game
1st downs- 16.6 per game
4.4 yards per play

(2007 had 6 Defensive/Special Teams TD's added to PPG)