I dont care how- but it better improve in 2016

It wasn't hitting tonight that lost the game. Errors and pitching lost this game. It was hitting and AN error last night that cost us. Pitching was outstanding Thursday. But with this team it's always something. A base running blunder, another botched ground ball at 3rd base, a pitcher cruising then all of a sudden can't throw a damn strike. It's always something. That logo of this team makes me drink fits this one to a T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

And I mentioned Polk II. Fact of the matter is, they've passed us outside of a three week run two years ago. That's on Polk AND Cohen, like it or not. And it ain't all Godwin, either. A certain Dan McDonnell at Louisville played a big part. Truth is Bianco is good at hiring great assistants to help him run the ship. That's what good coaches do and he has to get credit for seeing the talent and hiring them.

---

Actually, he is about 50% on hiring great assistants. McDonnell and Godwin are the only ones that I am aware of that have gone on to become head coaches. The rest of the assistants he has hired resulted in big dips in results. The bolded part is wrong. We were better than they were from 2011-2013 and at worst equal to them last year when we went 2-2 against them.

And to be honest no matter who the coach is, I don't think it will be long before we pass them again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whosyourdawgy

It wasn't hitting tonight that lost the game. Errors and pitching lost this game. It was hitting and AN error last night that cost us. Pitching was outstanding Thursday. But with this team it's always something. A base running blunder, another botched ground ball at 3rd base, a pitcher cruising then all of a sudden can't throw a damn strike. It's always something. That logo of this team makes me drink fits this one to a T

---

You're right. But again, I think that always goes back to how much work you put in. I've been talking a lot about working out, but it's the baseball fundamental part as well.

Small, Fenter, Breaux, Miller, Spea.... A good ol' Todd list. The names we all know and love that are repeated so often yet always seem to never pan out for us. Burdick, McCord, Paul Young, etc.

The current Todd list includes those and other random last names like Alexander Pilkington Mangum, James yada yada yada. The Todd list is irrevelant until A. They get on campus and B. They actually play baseball

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smitty

Small, Fenter, Breaux, Miller, Spea.... A good ol' Todd list. The names we all know and love that are repeated so often yet always seem to never pan out for us. Burdick, McCord, Paul Young, etc.

The current Todd list includes those and other random last names like Alexander Pilkington Mangum, James yada yada yada. The Todd list is irrevelant until A. They get on campus and B. They actually play baseball

---

So, you picked a guy that went pro after being drafted in the last round of the draft and two guys that got hurt? That should add to your credibility- or lack thereof. Tell us again how Wes Rea hasn't improved as a hitter since he has been on campus?**

And while you are at it- you can call out MLB scouts, PG, Kiley McDaniel, and etc.

The thing about it is- even if we lose 6 players, it's still going to be a good class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Next year is Dudy Noble's last as is. Who the coach is doesn't matter. It's getting built

---

As of last Saturday night....

4MM or so pledged.
2MM or so in hand (included in the number above).
As everyone knows, need 20MM pledged to start.
Any fees for premium seating do not count toward the initial 20MM.
Current plan of start construction at conclusion of 2016 season.

Time to get to fundraising.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScottH

As of last Saturday night....

4MM or so pledged.
2MM or so in hand (included in the number above).
As everyone knows, need 20MM pledged to start.
Any fees for premium seating do not count toward the initial 20MM.
Current plan of start construction at conclusion of 2016 season.

Time to get to fundraising.

---

Bout to miss the sec tourney. Good luck with that. Basketball and football have all the momentum among state fans right now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Actually, he is about 50% on hiring great assistants. McDonnell and Godwin are the only ones that I am aware of that have gone on to become head coaches. The rest of the assistants he has hired resulted in big dips in results. The bolded part is wrong. We were better than they were from 2011-2013 and at worst equal to them last year when we went 2-2 against them.

And to be honest no matter who the coach is, I don't think it will be long before we pass them again.

---

2013, yes. 2011 & 2012, no. I worded it poorly saying a 3 week run in reference to '13. That was one hell of a team who earned the only regional host under Cohen to date. They kicked ass and found ways to win. Anyone (myself included) trying to say that team was just a 3 week hot streak is nuts. They were good start to finish, and I need to make sure I word it better to give them credit for what they accomplished.

But '13 aside, you can't objectively say we've been the better program for the last decade plus or that we're close to passing them. The results speak for themselves, regular season and postseason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

2013, yes. 2011 & 2012, no. I worded it poorly saying a 3 week run in reference to '13. That was one hell of a team who earned the only regional host under Cohen to date. They kicked ass and found ways to win. Anyone (myself included) trying to say that team was just a 3 week hot streak is nuts. They were good start to finish, and I need to make sure I word it better to give them credit for what they accomplished.

But '13 aside, you can't objectively say we've been the better program for the last decade plus or that we're close to passing them. The results speak for themselves, regular season and postseason.

---

I'm going by results.

2011- We made a SR and they made a regional. We beat them 3-1 on the field.
2012- Made a Regional and won the SEC Tournament and they made a regional. Went 2-2 on the field.
2013- Made it to the CWS Finals, hosted a regional and they made a regional. Went 2-2 on the field.
2014- We made a regional and they hosted a regional and made Omaha. Went 2-2 on the field.


I don't see how anyone could objectively say that they were clearly the better program the past four years based on the on the field results.

And as far as passing them, I'm going by what we are expected to get in recruiting vs. what they are expected to get.

This year is somewhat similar when we were "better" on the field in terms of results in the early 2000's- but everyone knew that Ole Miss was getting better players coming in and that we were losing the Maholm's, Papelbon's, Tatum's etc. and it was going to be very difficult for us to keep up.

But to sum it up- we've won more in postseason than they have while hosting the same amount of times and also went deeper in our Omaha appearance. We've also been to more SR's.

You might have an argument over a ten year span- but even then you would have to add another CWS appearance as well as a SR host to our resume, so even that is not that cut and dried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's very simple. Our pitching needs to get better. Bitch about the offense all y'all want, but the pitching has killed us this year.

To be elite, we have to get elite pitching. I loved Holder, Lindgren, and even Ross until he started to wear a skirt and play cheerleader- but we've got to have 2-3 Chris Stratton's to win championships. And we need them to be elite before their junior year. We've got to find a way to get the Ethan Small, Gray Fenter, Kale Breaux, etc. to come to school.

Look at Vanderbilt. They really don't get a ton of elite hitters- and sure, they get a Pedro Alvarez and people like that from time to time but the guys that they do land really well are elite pitchers.

You look at our rotation now- it's a JUCO, a former walk-on, and a sophomore who will be good- but isn't quite refined yet. And yes, our bullpen is a trainwreck for the most part, but even with a good bullpen we're only going to go so far with that rotation.

In the past we've missed out on a couple like Touki Touissant and Dylan Cease in terms of getting a commitment from them, but we're starting to at least get commitments from them now. You've got the guys I mentioned above and then the next class has Mitchell Miller and Chad Spea in it. And then once we get the commitments, then we have to get the to school.

---

My biggest issue with Cohen AND Butch is that in SEVEN years we've only had 2 dependable starters, Stratton and Graveman, and really both of those guys were only truly good their JR year. That ain't gonna cut it. McCord was another failed attempt this year but we've got to sign and get guys on campus that AT LEAST contribute as starters their FR year and then are good to REALLY good their SO and JR years. It has yet to happen and that is why, while I like Butch, I'm not ready to hold him in the esteem that some others do on this board. Yes, its nice to have a good bullpen, which we've certainly had at times, but it all starts with the quality of the starters you put out there on the SEC weekends and ours usually don't match up with the starters on the teams in the upper half of the SEC. At least they don't on a consistent basis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maroonmania

My biggest issue with Cohen AND Butch is that in SEVEN years we've only had 2 dependable starters, Stratton and Graveman, and really both of those guys were only truly good their JR year. That ain't gonna cut it. McCord was another failed attempt this year but we've got to sign and get guys on campus that AT LEAST contribute as starters their FR year and then are good to REALLY good their SO and JR years. It has yet to happen and that is why, while I like Butch, I'm not ready to hold him in the esteem that some others do on this board. Yes, its nice to have a good bullpen, which we've certainly had at times, but it all starts with the quality of the starters you put out there on the SEC weekends and ours usually don't match up with the starters on the teams in the upper half of the SEC. At least they don't on a consistent basis.

---

I agree- although Graveman was pretty good as a junior and senior.

I can understand guys not being all world as true freshmen, but why do our guys look completely clueless as sophomores and then turn it on and become lights out as juniors? It's weird. That said, I think part of it is overall talent. The only pitchers that we have gotten under this staff that have had major accolades- UA All-American, PG All-American, or Team USA- have been Brandon Woodruff and Jacob Lindgren. And Woodruff did look pretty good as a freshman and he would have been really good had he not had a hairline fracture on his arm. He's one of the Brewers top 30 prospects right now. Lindgren was a guy that a college should expect to be a rotation guy- and mentally he just couldn't handle it. But he's lights out as a relief pitcher. Dakota Hudson was a high pick but he didn't play in the major All-Star games.

That to me is the difference between what we are recruiting now and what we have been getting in the past.

I do think that Butch tends to be too cute sometimes- I think a guy like Trevor Fitts needs to start. And yes, I know he asked to be moved to the bullpen. It's just backwards to say- "we're going to pitch a guy for 2-3 innings and then bring in a relief guy for 6 innings. There are reasons why no one does that. I also think Butch tends to be too loyal sometimes- see Ross this year.

If I were managing our pitching staff, I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off going with Hudson, Tatum, and Sexton in the rotation- and just tell them to give us 3-5 IP, which all of them have proven that they can do and then go to a guy like Laster or Fitts coming out of the pen for 3-6 IP or whatever is needed. And then we have Houston who has emerged. And then I would have made Preston pitch midweek. For most of the year, Laster has been our best pitcher (I'd say Houston is now) and if they did it my way, we would get to pitch him twice most likely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maroonmania

My biggest issue with Cohen AND Butch is that in SEVEN years we've only had 2 dependable starters, Stratton and Graveman, and really both of those guys were only truly good their JR year. That ain't gonna cut it. McCord was another failed attempt this year but we've got to sign and get guys on campus that AT LEAST contribute as starters their FR year and then are good to REALLY good their SO and JR years. It has yet to happen and that is why, while I like Butch, I'm not ready to hold him in the esteem that some others do on this board. Yes, its nice to have a good bullpen, which we've certainly had at times, but it all starts with the quality of the starters you put out there on the SEC weekends and ours usually don't match up with the starters on the teams in the upper half of the SEC. At least they don't on a consistent basis.

---

I think part of that has to do with the ridiculous way we've built our staff. We chose to go after guys who had "good" velocity and great movement instead of power arms. Now we're paying the price that the movement has been offset some by the new ball. We've got a bunch of high 80s pitchers who are prone to getting shelled now they they aren't getting the movement they did previously. The strategy just never made sense to me, in large part because power arms always play. They aren't as dependent on elite movement. And I know there are a limited number of those guys around, but if other SEC schools are finding them we should be too.

And you make an excellent point about our failure to develop pitchers before they're upperclassmen. They should at least be giving us quality innings out of the pen as freshmen and be reliable starters as sophomores. And don't even get me started on all the changing pitchers in the middle of at-bats. Butch is a good pitching coach, but the idea he's the best in the country is a huge stretch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

The biggest thing that concerns me about Cohen right now is me hearing shit about our guys skipping out on work outs and things like that. That's unacceptable and explains why I'm in better shape than half of them. It's also puzzling given Cohen's intensity.

If you suck, suck putting the work in to be the best you can. That's why I'm so pissed at our players. Honestly, I feel like if you have two competitors and one of them works out and does what they are supposed to and the other is skipping out on work outs, that can sometimes ultimately be the difference in winning or losing a game. That may sound cheesy, but the work outs are designed to maximize player performance. And when we can't quite get to a ball that goes in for a hit- maybe that missed flexibility work out made the difference there. At the very least I believe hard work is rewarded. And I would tell every one of those mother ****ers to their face that they are getting what they deserve. Including Cohen too.

---

I've heard of two people skipping workouts in the past few weeks. One got kicked off the team, the other has to show up to 6:00am workouts for the rest of the season to not be kicked off the team. Has there been more besides that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)

I've heard of two people skipping workouts in the past few weeks. One got kicked off the team, the other has to show up to 6:00am workouts for the rest of the season to not be kicked off the team. Has there been more besides that?

---

I say boot that guy too. This team needs some serious turnover and a whole new culture

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScottH

As of last Saturday night....

4MM or so pledged.
2MM or so in hand (included in the number above).
As everyone knows, need 20MM pledged to start.
Any fees for premium seating do not count toward the initial 20MM.
Current plan of start construction at conclusion of 2016 season.

Time to get to fundraising.

---

I submitted the form for the capital donation 3 days ago. Haven't been contacted about it yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

The biggest thing that concerns me about Cohen right now is me hearing shit about our guys skipping out on work outs and things like that. That's unacceptable and explains why I'm in better shape than half of them. It's also puzzling given Cohen's intensity.

If you suck, suck putting the work in to be the best you can. That's why I'm so pissed at our players. Honestly, I feel like if you have two competitors and one of them works out and does what they are supposed to and the other is skipping out on work outs, that can sometimes ultimately be the difference in winning or losing a game. That may sound cheesy, but the work outs are designed to maximize player performance. And when we can't quite get to a ball that goes in for a hit- maybe that missed flexibility work out made the difference there. At the very least I believe hard work is rewarded. And I would tell every one of those mother ****ers to their face that they are getting what they deserve. Including Cohen too.

In MLB, they have to work out- or they are going to lose their job to someone that will outwork them. And there are hundreds of players on AAA that would love to have a MLB job.

---

Wait a minute.....players skipping shit? **** that. They are gone. If they are not gone fire every muther****er in the baseball department. That's ****ing shit that is handled in high school. Should happen 0% at college level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smitty

Small, Fenter, Breaux, Miller, Spea.... A good ol' Todd list. The names we all know and love that are repeated so often yet always seem to never pan out for us. Burdick, McCord, Paul Young, etc.

The current Todd list includes those and other random last names like Alexander Pilkington Mangum, James yada yada yada. The Todd list is irrevelant until A. They get on campus and B. They actually play baseball

---

Stfu. You know shit about baseball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

I say boot that guy too. This team needs some serious turnover and a whole new culture

---

Ding ding ding ding we have a winner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I agree- although Graveman was pretty good as a junior and senior.

I can understand guys not being all world as true freshmen, but why do our guys look completely clueless as sophomores and then turn it on and become lights out as juniors? It's weird. That said, I think part of it is overall talent. The only pitchers that we have gotten under this staff that have had major accolades- UA All-American, PG All-American, or Team USA- have been Brandon Woodruff and Jacob Lindgren. And Woodruff did look pretty good as a freshman and he would have been really good had he not had a hairline fracture on his arm. He's one of the Brewers top 30 prospects right now. Lindgren was a guy that a college should expect to be a rotation guy- and mentally he just couldn't handle it. But he's lights out as a relief pitcher. Dakota Hudson was a high pick but he didn't play in the major All-Star games.

That to me is the difference between what we are recruiting now and what we have been getting in the past.

I do think that Butch tends to be too cute sometimes- I think a guy like Trevor Fitts needs to start. And yes, I know he asked to be moved to the bullpen. It's just backwards to say- "we're going to pitch a guy for 2-3 innings and then bring in a relief guy for 6 innings. There are reasons why no one does that. I also think Butch tends to be too loyal sometimes- see Ross this year.

If I were managing our pitching staff, I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off going with Hudson, Tatum, and Sexton in the rotation- and just tell them to give us 3-5 IP, which all of them have proven that they can do and then go to a guy like Laster or Fitts coming out of the pen for 3-6 IP or whatever is needed. And then we have Houston who has emerged. And then I would have made Preston pitch midweek. For most of the year, Laster has been our best pitcher (I'd say Houston is now) and if they did it my way, we would get to pitch him twice most likely.

---

Yes, that's right, the year Graveman was really good was actually his SR year (the CWS year), not his JR year. Graveman was pretty much a journeyman pitcher his first 3 years, certainly not dominant. And Stratton had a very acceptable FR year but fell to pieces his SO year before coming back strong his JR year. But the main point is, even with their inconsistencies, that's only 2 starters in 7 years that have been high quality SEC starters under Cohen and Butch. That ain't gonna cut it.

My concern is that of getting away with mediocrity. With one exception we have been a very average program under Cohen. Hosting is laughed at most years. Let's say he brings in a bunch of all world talent like supposedly we have signed and 2 and 3 seeds them like he is used to doing. What then? 34 says make regional keep job. Well there's more to just making a regional and our numbers showing the vast advantage host and national seed teams have prove that.

We need to BE IN POSITION to sustain and achieve success every year rather than relying on the mythical "Cohen late season run"

Cohen will never maximize our win total. He will always meddle, bunt, **** with swings, etc no matter if he was managing State or the 1927 Yanks. I want someone who will get the most out of what we got. Mississippi State baseball's potential is unlimited.