What do we raise Mullen's salary to?

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

He's done a job that's never been done before. What finished job?

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He didn't win the most important game of the year. He didn't get the team up and made incompetent decisions all year long regarding personnel and special teams. We won in spite of Dan because we have really good talent and a Heisman candidate at QB. Letting the team go home for Thanksgiving was arrogant and incompetent.

Let me remind everybody that the coach that Dan replaced was fired in part for many of the same things. Including not placing enough emphasis on the Egg Bowl.

We shouldn't give Dan a raise just for the sake of giving him a raise. If he wants a raise, he needs to perform better as a head coach.

For me to want him to have a raise I want to see all of those things corrected.

Let me remind everyone that Ron Polk won a lot of games and had "good seasons" too- even though there were some obvious cracks in the foundation.

I think he did a great job this season, but I sure am tired of going through this raise shit every season. How long can this continue, not just for us but for the whole college football world?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

He didn't win the most important game of the year. He didn't get the team up and made incompetent decisions all year long regarding personnel and special teams. We won in spite of Dan because we have really good talent and a Heisman candidate at QB. Letting the team go home for Thanksgiving was arrogant and incompetent.

Let me remind everybody that the coach that Dan replaced was fired in part for many of the same things. Including not placing enough emphasis on the Egg Bowl.

We shouldn't give Dan a raise just for the sake of giving him a raise. If he wants a raise, he needs to perform better as a head coach.

For me to want him to have a raise I want to see all of those things corrected.

Let me remind everyone that Ron Polk won a lot of games and had "good seasons" too- even though there were some obvious cracks in the foundation.

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Yeah you lost me when you compared him to Croom. Not that I agreed with you to begin with. The Egg Bowl is important but if we can get 10+ wins (hopefully consistently) then I'm ok with losing it every once in a while. Geez, get a grip

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

I think he did a great job this season, but I sure am tired of going through this raise shit every season. How long can this continue, not just for us but for the whole college football world?

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It will continue as long as the country doesn't hit a serious economic crisis ala the Great Depression.

The time value of money decreases. People get paid more as time goes by as a result. $100 is worth less today than it was last year.

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Originally Posted by mstatefan91

Yeah you lost me when you compared him to Croom. Not that I agreed with you to begin with. The Egg Bowl is important but if we can get 10+ wins (hopefully consistently) then I'm ok with losing it every once in a while. Geez, get a grip

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You'll see what I am talking about after Dak graduates.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

You'll see what I am talking about after Dak graduates.

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Maybe so. It's completely possible if none of our QB's pan out. I tend to think that there has to be at least one of them that's a gamer

I agree with Todd... 100%

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

He didn't win the most important game of the year. He didn't get the team up and made incompetent decisions all year long regarding personnel and special teams. We won in spite of Dan because we have really good talent and a Heisman candidate at QB. Letting the team go home for Thanksgiving was arrogant and incompetent.

Let me remind everybody that the coach that Dan replaced was fired in part for many of the same things. Including not placing enough emphasis on the Egg Bowl.

We shouldn't give Dan a raise just for the sake of giving him a raise. If he wants a raise, he needs to perform better as a head coach.

For me to want him to have a raise I want to see all of those things corrected.

Let me remind everyone that Ron Polk won a lot of games and had "good seasons" too- even though there were some obvious cracks in the foundation.

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Todd, I usually very much respect your opinion, and understand the Egg Bowl loss hurts and is very frustrating. However, to any objective person, this is ridiculous.

I agree that there are things that Mullen does that are very frustrating, but the overall development of our team has been outstanding.

My biggest question is this: I think there is a big difference between a program builder and a big game coach. Some coaches are great at developing players, teaching, evaluation, etc... but are very average to below average in actually putting together a game plan, motivating, and managing a football game.

I order to be a championship caliber coach, you must excel in both areas. At this point, Mullen has shown to be excellent in the scouting & player development parts of the job, but I think he is still learning and developing on gameplan/ game management side.

I think he deserves a raise, but he needs to get rid of ego, and learn to adapt the gameplan to what is needed to win.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

You'll see what I am talking about after Dak graduates.

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Todd makes the most sense of any in this thread. If some of you don't see how important QB play is and how it can elevate an entire team, you are beyond help. Just look at LSU this year. They have more talent than we do, but QB play was horrendous and 8-4. We have above average talent and a top 5-10 QB in nation. 10-2.

My dad spoke to his HS coach (former player and prominent M Club Member) Saturday night after the game he basically said the same thing Todd said. This team won despite Mullen this year because we have a Heisman candidate QB. We are a 7-8 win max team without dak. The consensus amongst the majority of our former players and prominent alum is that Dan may be the player development guy but cannot cut the mustard in game. If the Bama and OM games don't open everyone's eyes to this thought, you will neve see this with Mullen. We won early in the year because we played to win and relaxed. Once we had expectations we completely changed things and hoped we could play not to lose and win. Everyone points to the auburn game as the turning point in our on field performances. Everything changed after being #1. How many successful people sustain their success if they change the actions that got them to the top? Most sustained success is accomplished by continuing to do what you did to get you to the top. We have seen this before from Dan and until he stops altering things that are successful, we will never win a championship with him. You don't see Saban go into his shell and completely changing the offensive game plan after they hit#1. They stick with what got them there.

To me, dans actions the last month of the season are similar to him Sticking with TR over Dak, even though Dak had the most upside for us winning long term. TR was the more safe bet last year to get to 6 wins and another Bowl game. If Dak preps to be the starter from day one of fall Camp and we focus on one offense,we beat Ok State and Auburn last year. As we've seen during his 6 seasons, Dan relies more on the more conservative, less upside option over the potentially much higher upside. I thought he was past the conservative BS after the LSU-Aub stretch, but he went right back to his old tendencies and hoped we could win ball games.

give him a raise and maintain as much continuity as possible.

I just really hate how it's always the same complaint with Dan…. which is something that he can change…. and never does. Stubbornness/Arrogance. Not doing everything you can to win.

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Originally Posted by Smitty

I just really hate how it's always the same complaint with Dan…. which is something that he can change…. and never does. Stubbornness/Arrogance. Not doing everything you can to win.

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10 wins says differently.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Todd, I usually very much respect your opinion, and understand the Egg Bowl loss hurts and is very frustrating. However, to any objective person, this is ridiculous.

I agree that there are things that Mullen does that are very frustrating, but the overall development of our team has been outstanding.

My biggest question is this: I think there is a big difference between a program builder and a big game coach. Some coaches are great at developing players, teaching, evaluation, etc... but are very average to below average in actually putting together a game plan, motivating, and managing a football game.

I order to be a championship caliber coach, you must excel in both areas. At this point, Mullen has shown to be excellent in the scouting & player development parts of the job, but I think he is still learning and developing on gameplan/ game management side.

I think he deserves a raise, but he needs to get rid of ego, and learn to adapt the gameplan to what is needed to win.

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I totally get why people don't agree with me. 10 wins is 10 wins. I just don't think he deserves a raise because while he is no doubt good at developing and scouting players which is certainly part of the job, he is VERY lacking in game management. He needs to show me improvement in that area before I would give him a raise, because otherwise I would be rewarding him for the special teams failure, 1A and 1B and not giving our team Thanksgiving off before the biggest game of the year and not having them focused.

I want to Dan to SHOW me that he will change for the better before I give him that raise. I want him to understand what is wrong and give him a reason to change. Giving him more money is telling him that what happened last year was totally OK. But if he changes, I'm fine with giving him a raise.

And as far as the Egg Bowl, he's lucky he hasn't lost three in a row to Ole Miss because of his special teams gaffes and wanting Dak to throw on fourth down instead of running it in from 4th and 1- which is what Dak wanted to do and convinced Dan to change the play.

I just don't see him changing though. Special teams has been bad every year. Knox is a special teams coach in title only and making him the coach is an insult to our intelligence. He treated the Egg Bowl the same way in 2012 as he did this year. And I don't expect 1A/1B to go away.

I'd need a complete summary of our financial margin to determine how much increase we'll need for CDM as well as assistants. I know we've had a massive increase in revenue. I feel as though some increase is in order. I also don't have a feel for what CDM has in mind. For those of you who have valuable employees who are getting the job done and show promise, I'm sure you know the position I'm taking on this subject. You pay enough to both reward them for past successes, and also on the basis of what others will offer to get the same production.

CDM is a hard working coach. He's always striving for improvement. He's said before that he might have demanded more effort from his staff than they were willing to give, yet I don't believe he asks anymore from them than he's willing to put forth himself.

It's a balancing act, but it's one decision that's vital for the future of the program. I'd prefer a one on one conversation with CDM over negotiations with an agent. The agent would be all about his percentage, not about what Dan requires.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Todd makes the most sense of any in this thread. If some of you don't see how important QB play is and how it can elevate an entire team, you are beyond help. Just look at LSU this year. They have more talent than we do, but QB play was horrendous and 8-4. We have above average talent and a top 5-10 QB in nation. 10-2.

My dad spoke to his HS coach (former player and prominent M Club Member) Saturday night after the game he basically said the same thing Todd said. This team won despite Mullen this year because we have a Heisman candidate QB. We are a 7-8 win max team without dak. The consensus amongst the majority of our former players and prominent alum is that Dan may be the player development guy but cannot cut the mustard in game. If the Bama and OM games don't open everyone's eyes to this thought, you will neve see this with Mullen. We won early in the year because we played to win and relaxed. Once we had expectations we completely changed things and hoped we could play not to lose and win. Everyone points to the auburn game as the turning point in our on field performances. Everything changed after being #1. How many successful people sustain their success if they change the actions that got them to the top? Most sustained success is accomplished by continuing to do what you did to get you to the top. We have seen this before from Dan and until he stops altering things that are successful, we will never win a championship with him. You don't see Saban go into his shell and completely changing the offensive game plan after they hit#1. They stick with what got them there.

To me, dans actions the last month of the season are similar to him Sticking with TR over Dak, even though Dak had the most upside for us winning long term. TR was the more safe bet last year to get to 6 wins and another Bowl game. If Dak preps to be the starter from day one of fall Camp and we focus on one offense,we beat Ok State and Auburn last year. As we've seen during his 6 seasons, Dan relies more on the more conservative, less upside option over the potentially much higher upside. I thought he was past the conservative BS after the LSU-Aub stretch, but he went right back to his old tendencies and hoped we could win ball games.

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I totally agree. Dak can run and pass it. He's a very special player. That's the difference between him and Tyler, Relf, etc. If you have a player like that, you are going to be really good. If not, you better have a lights out defense like we had in 1999 or like what Ole Miss has this year.

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

10 wins says differently.

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Seems like the empty 8 wins argument of 2012. Not the same obviously but just like 2012 the wins were somewhat diminished and the losses were inexplicable.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Todd makes the most sense of any in this thread. If some of you don't see how important QB play is and how it can elevate an entire team, you are beyond help. Just look at LSU this year. They have more talent than we do, but QB play was horrendous and 8-4. We have above average talent and a top 5-10 QB in nation. 10-2.

My dad spoke to his HS coach (former player and prominent M Club Member) Saturday night after the game he basically said the same thing Todd said. This team won despite Mullen this year because we have a Heisman candidate QB. We are a 7-8 win max team without dak. The consensus amongst the majority of our former players and prominent alum is that Dan may be the player development guy but cannot cut the mustard in game. If the Bama and OM games don't open everyone's eyes to this thought, you will neve see this with Mullen. We won early in the year because we played to win and relaxed. Once we had expectations we completely changed things and hoped we could play not to lose and win. Everyone points to the auburn game as the turning point in our on field performances. Everything changed after being #1. How many successful people sustain their success if they change the actions that got them to the top? Most sustained success is accomplished by continuing to do what you did to get you to the top. We have seen this before from Dan and until he stops altering things that are successful, we will never win a championship with him. You don't see Saban go into his shell and completely changing the offensive game plan after they hit#1. They stick with what got them there.

To me, dans actions the last month of the season are similar to him Sticking with TR over Dak, even though Dak had the most upside for us winning long term. TR was the more safe bet last year to get to 6 wins and another Bowl game. If Dak preps to be the starter from day one of fall Camp and we focus on one offense,we beat Ok State and Auburn last year. As we've seen during his 6 seasons, Dan relies more on the more conservative, less upside option over the potentially much higher upside. I thought he was past the conservative BS after the LSU-Aub stretch, but he went right back to his old tendencies and hoped we could win ball games.

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I agree with Rouge and Todd but I would up the bonus with a big bonus if we get into the playoffs. That way he can still get big money if the team performs. We won't see another Dak for a while and it will show in two years.

You people who diminish wins Need to go back to the board for Southern Miss who fired Bower, or to the board at OMU who fired cutcliff. Wins are what it is about. I do not care if he fields a team of pygmies me as long as he wins.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I totally get why people don't agree with me. 10 wins is 10 wins. I just don't think he deserves a raise because while he is no doubt good at developing and scouting players which is certainly part of the job, he is VERY lacking in game management. He needs to show me improvement in that area before I would give him a raise, because otherwise I would be rewarding him for the special teams failure, 1A and 1B and not giving our team Thanksgiving off before the biggest game of the year and not having them focused.

I want to Dan to SHOW me that he will change for the better before I give him that raise. I want him to understand what is wrong and give him a reason to change. Giving him more money is telling him that what happened last year was totally OK. But if he changes, I'm fine with giving him a raise.

And as far as the Egg Bowl, he's lucky he hasn't lost three in a row to Ole Miss because of his special teams gaffes and wanting Dak to throw on fourth down instead of running it in from 4th and 1- which is what Dak wanted to do and convinced Dan to change the play.

I just don't see him changing though. Special teams has been bad every year. Knox is a special teams coach in title only and making him the coach is an insult to our intelligence. He treated the Egg Bowl the same way in 2012 as he did this year. And I don't expect 1A/1B to go away.

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I get what your saying, and I feel the same way in many respects, but I believe your line of thinking makes the assumption that Mullen is stuck at MSU. I hate to make any decisions out of fear, but I feel fairly certain that Michigan or Nebraska would consider giving Mullen 4 Mil a year, and, if they are willing to do that, then we must match that offer or, hopefully, sign him up for that offer before Michigan or Nebraska can make that offer.

Unless you really believe that MSU can go grab another coach tomorrow that can do what he has done, and even take the program to another level, then we must do everything in our power to keep Mullen, even if that means that we are overpaying him.