Hey Hey goodbye: Braves trade

This is a good trade for both sides.

Miller is a solid #3 starter that still has some upside. He's only 23 and threw 183 inning this year with a 3.74 ERA.

The Braves also landed Tyrell Jenkins, who has an enormous ceiling. He is an elite athlete that pitches in the upper 90s with nasty stuff. Jenkins is still a little raw, but, if he pans out, the Braves win this trade. Jenkins just go done dominating the Arizona Fall League with a 2.22 ERA in 24 innings pitched. His stock is at an all time high right now.

On the other side, the Cardinals were in a very unfortunate situation where they had to replace Oscar Taveras after his death and were thus put in a tough spot. The Cardinals, however, have tons a money to spend because so many of their players are home grown and don't cost much money. Furthermore, while Miller is good, he was expendable, due to the Cardinals pitching depth. The Cardinals still have Carlos Martinez, Tim Cooney, and Michael Wacha re-entering the rotation next year to go along with Wainwright and Lynn. The Cardinals are going to be fine.

Overall, this is a good trade for both teams. The way trades should be

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Originally Posted by Beaver

Gattis for Miller? So a subpar defender with a .250 average who's 27 for a 23 year old SP rookie of the year? Surely you can't be serious...

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Especially considering that the Cardinals have Molina and Tony Cruz at catcher.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This is a good trade for both sides.

Miller is a solid #3 starter that still has some upside. He's only 23 and threw 183 inning this year with a 3.74 ERA.

The Braves also landed Tyrell Jenkins, who has an enormous ceiling. He is an elite athlete that pitches in the upper 90s with nasty stuff. Jenkins is still a little raw, but, if he pans out, the Braves win this trade. Jenkins just go done dominating the Arizona Fall League with a 2.22 ERA in 24 innings pitched. His stock is at an all time high right now.

On the other side, the Cardinals were in a very unfortunate situation where they had to replace Oscar Taveras after his death and were thus put in a tough spot. The Cardinals, however, have tons a money to spend because so many of their players are home grown and don't cost much money. Furthermore, while Miller is good, he was expendable, due to the Cardinals pitching depth. The Cardinals still have Carlos Martinez, Tim Cooney, and Michael Wacha re-entering the rotation next year to go along with Wainwright and Lynn. The Cardinals are going to be fine.

Overall, this is a good trade for both teams. The way trades should be

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I hate to be insensitive, but Taveras passing away really hurts the Cardinals in many ways from a baseball standpoint. Had he not passed away, the Cardinals could have held onto Miller and Jenkins and then they could have packaged them plus another player for a player that is better than Heyward- and one that they might have been able to control longer.

Sadly, it is what it is and no one has any control over it.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I hate to be insensitive, but Taveras passing away really hurts the Cardinals in many ways from a baseball standpoint. Had he not passed away, the Cardinals could have held onto Miller and Jenkins and then they could have packaged them plus another player for a player that is better than Heyward- and one that they might have been able to control longer.

Sadly, it is what it is and no one has any control over it.

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Yup, it is what it is though. While not exactly the same obviously, many teams have injuries and what not, that cause them to lose good players. It's why it's so important to draft well and build depth within the organization. Interestingly, the Cardinals are better equipped to handle this than any other organization.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Ummm.....no. The Braves weren't going to keep Heyward beyond this year. They get a potential ace for cheap over the next four years. The odds of this blowing up in the Cardinals face long term is much, much, much higher.

And Heyward can't hit LH pitching- he will platoon with Grichuk. You don't trade a potential ace for a platoon OF and a set-up guy. Much less an even more established prospect in Wacha- who the Cardinals probably can't move right now anyway because of his injury this year and the fact that no one knows how he is going to recover from allowing that walk-off home run in the NLCS to end the season.

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You're drunk if you think Shelby Miller is a potential ace and that Heyward will platoon with Grichuk. Fu@king Grichuk? You serious dude? Hahahaha

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

You're drunk if you think Shelby Miller is a potential ace and that Heyward will platoon with Grichuk. Fu@king Grichuk? You serious dude? Hahahaha

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Look at Heyward and Grichuk's splits. It screams platoon. Heyward is hit .231 against LH pitching last year. Grichuk hit .250 against RH pitching in MLB, but he hit an alarming .235 against RH pitching in AAA. Plus, the Cardinals aren't likely to start 5 LH hitters (Adams, Carpenter, Wong, Heyward, and Jay) against a LH starter. The original plan was for Taveras and Grichuk to platoon this year until Jay leaves and then Grichuk is going likely take over in CF.

Miller has the talent to be an ace. I don't know if he has it between the ears to be one. When he is on, he is absolutely filthy. Don't forget that he is still only 23- even if he doesn't become an ace, he is at worst a solid starting pitcher who has his best days ahead of him. He pitched very well at the end of the year after he started throwing a sinker/cutter that Justin Masterson taught him. He's going to throw that from here on out.

I think you're just mad because the Cardinals wouldn't trade Wacha for Gattis.

61 is more right than anybody else here. There's no way the best the Braves could do for Heyward was a mediocre SP and a prospect who's never done anything. Jenkins may have a high ceiling, but there's about a .02% chance he hits it. And Miller is in no way, shape, or form a potential future #1. He was the Cards' #4 starter this year and is regressing. His K rate, one of the most promising things about him, took a massive dip this year. His K/BB rate was awful, and his peripherals were even worse than his actual performance.

Miller is ok but he's not anybody who's going to change what you are in any meaningful way. I believe the Braves could have potentially resigned Heyward had they actually tried, and he's definitely better than most on here believe.

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Originally Posted by smootness

61 is more right than anybody else here. There's no way the best the Braves could do for Heyward was a mediocre SP and a prospect who's never done anything. Jenkins may have a high ceiling, but there's about a .02% chance he hits it. And Miller is in no way, shape, or form a potential future #1. He was the Cards' #4 starter this year and is regressing. His K rate, one of the most promising things about him, took a massive dip this year. His K/BB rate was awful, and his peripherals were even worse than his actual performance.

Miller is ok but he's not anybody who's going to change what you are in any meaningful way. I believe the Braves could have potentially resigned Heyward had they actually tried, and he's definitely better than most on here believe.

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I think the Braves know they can't sign jup and jhey. I think they'd rather try and keep jup.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I think the Braves know they can't sign jup and jhey. I think they'd rather try and keep jup.

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See that's a massive mistake. Heyward is by far a better overall player than Justin Upton imo. His defense, speed and youth more than make up his lack of power numbers to Upton.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

See that's a massive mistake. Heyward is by far a better overall player than Justin Upton imo. His defense, speed and youth more than make up his lack of power numbers to Upton.

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Jhey 25
Jup 27

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Jhey 25
Jup 27

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You're blinded by power. Braves would of been far better off trading both Upton's and keeping Heyward.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

You're blinded by power. Braves would of been far better off trading both Upton's and keeping Heyward.

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Might still trade jup. I'm speculating. I had inside info, but wren got fired*****

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Originally Posted by smootness

61 is more right than anybody else here. There's no way the best the Braves could do for Heyward was a mediocre SP and a prospect who's never done anything. Jenkins may have a high ceiling, but there's about a .02% chance he hits it. And Miller is in no way, shape, or form a potential future #1. He was the Cards' #4 starter this year and is regressing. His K rate, one of the most promising things about him, took a massive dip this year. His K/BB rate was awful, and his peripherals were even worse than his actual performance.

Miller is ok but he's not anybody who's going to change what you are in any meaningful way. I believe the Braves could have potentially resigned Heyward had they actually tried, and he's definitely better than most on here believe.

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Heyward has said multiple times that he was going to test the market and just turned down an extension offer from the Braves. That's a red flag that he wouldn't come back. And you better believe that someone like the Yankees would have no problem overspending on him especially with that short porch in RF.

Miller's issues are 100% maturity related.

Changing scenery may help both.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Might still trade jup. I'm speculating. I had inside info, but wren got fired*****

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They're trying to trade him too from what I have heard. The Mariners might be where he ends up if Upton will OK it.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

They're trying to trade him too from what I have heard. The Mariners might be where he ends up if Upton will OK it.

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Any speculation on the return?

Heyward > J. Upton. Bravos could have brought back more that what they got. Shelby Miller is a HUGE question mark.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Any speculation on the return?

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I've seen some rumors about Taijuan Walker for Upton, but that seems to be a bit much to me personally for Upton. I doubt the Braves have really started talking about it too much probably because they wanted to get the LaStella and Heyward trades done first to see what the actual returns were. You never know- they may have wanted to get Vizcaino and Jenkins to use them in a trade with another team.

Here is an excellent article for anyone wanting more info:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-f...y-miller-swap/

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I've seen some rumors about Taijuan Walker for Upton, but that seems to be a bit much to me personally for Upton. I doubt the Braves have really started talking about it too much probably because they wanted to get the LaStella and Heyward trades done first to see what the actual returns were. You never know- they may have wanted to get Vizcaino and Jenkins to use them in a trade with another team.

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If they do it, it will definitely be for a young pitcher that they have several years of control over his contract.

You know how bad the Braves system has become? After they traded for Arodys Viscaino and Tyrell Jenkins, they are rated as the Braves 4th and 7th best prospects respectively by MLB Pipeline. Viscaino was right behind Julio Teheran as a prospect back in 2011. It has been a while since I have seen their farm system this low on high level talent.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Here is an excellent article for anyone wanting more info:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-f...y-miller-swap/

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I think a lot of stats guys overrate Jason's overall impact. I don't want to make it sound like I am trying to diminish him, but if you listen to the people that love the WAR stat, Jason is just a notch below Mike Trout as a player right now. IMO, that's where he should be, but his bat isn't good enough to put him there. The majority of his value comes from defense and base running. He's a .260 hitter that strikes out too much and hasn't shown much power to date on offense. On defense, he's an all world player.

Shelby Miller is a young power arm that the Braves were actually considering back in 2009 when they took Mike Minor. Stats guys will bemoan his lack of stellar strike out numbers, but he's got the ability. Working with Roger McDowell could be what he needs to realize that potential. I think he could be a #2 guy going forward.