Serious Hypothetical Mullen question

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04-11-2014, 12:24 PM
BogeyGolfer

Quote:

Originally Posted by hacker

After the disappointing first 3/4 of last year, Mullen strung together some amazing coaching performances and just when people were calling for his head, his team rallied around him and supported him, ostensibly, more than ever. So, coming into this 2014 year, loaded with a returning talent and everything seemingly aligning for a big year -- what would Dan Mullen have to do to win SEC Coach of the Year?

I think he'd have to win the West to get it.

If he can build quality depth on offense like we have on D we have a shot to win 10 games otherwise 8-9 wins is our ceiling.
04-11-2014, 12:36 PM
blacklistedbully

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollodawg

Pump your breaks there, partner. We should have beaten an OM team, that beat a top ten LSU team no less, with a true freshman QB making his first start in the freaking EB? Dan did a helluva job in that game, and no one can take that away from him. Dan did a great job not letting the team lose focus when we were down 10-zip to a bad Arkansas team too. The boys could have packed it in and said "screw it. We'll do better next year." But they didn't, and neither did he. He deserves some flak, but he needs some kudos too every now an then.

Yes, we should have beaten an unranked, overrated Ole Miss team that really should have lost to Vandy, caught Texas when they were a hot mess, and won a rivalry game versus a brain-fart prone Les Miles in a game where LSU played like shit beyond what Ole Miss was doing to effect that. Yes, we should have beaten an Ole miss team that hasn't beaten us in Starkville since 2003, and has only done it 3 times in 12 tries, even with us on probation.

You want to credit Dan for "not letting his team lose focus when we were down 10-zip to a bad Arky. But you fail to blame Dan for the team being down 10-zip to a bad Arky team to begin with.

Finally, I did give him some props, so please don't accuse me of something I didn't do. It weakens your argument.

The reality is, we believe some of the same things, but appear to differ on just how much praise Dan should get for beating Ole Miss at home and a really bad Arky, both in OT. You are of the camp that thinks it showed us all how great he did. I am of the camp that thinks y'all have blown those wins way outta proportion.

Yes, we played a freshman QB, and he did a good job. Yes, I credit Dan for coaching this young man up. One of the things I really like aout Dan is his ability to work with dual-purpose QB's. But you're kidding yourself if you don't believe that win was mainly due to our defense, and the job Geoff Collins did, combined witht he gutty performance put on by Dak.
04-11-2014, 12:38 PM
blacklistedbully

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootness

No, the winning at least 10 games is all he will have to do to be a candidate. Every fanbase can point to individual decisions by their coach and say it needs to improve. And every fanbase has far less of an idea what individual decisions opposing coaches have screwed up.

They're not going to say, 'Wow, Mullen won 11 games at Mississippi State this year. But I disagree with the guy they gave the majority of the carries to, and I don't think he perfectly managed the clock every game this year. Can't be him!'

You misunderstood. I think Dan needs to do these things to even have a shot at winning 10 games. If he did all those things and won only 9, I don't think he gets COY.
04-11-2014, 12:47 PM
blacklistedbully

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollodawg

And, you know, it's not just those last three games. It's the fight and intensity that whole team played with during Bama--which our clearly best QB by that point was on the sideline--and TAMU on the road. The team never gave up. The fought until the ref called "ball game." That was what gave me faith. We could have used missing Dak for the Bama game as an excuse, and packed it in. We didn't. We could have used the fact that JFF was unstoppable at TAMU. But we didn't. We played like we wanted to match them score for score no matter how many they scored. That was what gave me hope. That was Mullen 2009-2011. The 2012 team would have quit in both of those instances.

Auburn
Bowling Green
Kentucky

Auburn game is a great example. Dan did a terrific job getting is to a point where we could have and should have beat them. But he also did a terrible job of game-management and late-game play-calling that ultimately cost us the win.

Bowling Green, though decent, should not have been in a position to beat us at the end. We were a dropped pass away from losing that game. How does everybody feel about Dan today had their TE not dropped that pass?

UK was a bad, bad, bad football team, yet gave us all we could want.
04-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Pollodawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

Yes, we should have beaten an unranked, overrated Ole Miss team that really should have lost to Vandy, caught Texas when they were a hot mess, and won a rivalry game versus a brain-fart prone Les Miles in a game where LSU played like shit beyond what Ole Miss was doing to effect that. Yes, we should have beaten an Ole miss team that hasn't beaten us in Starkville since 2003, and has only done it 3 times in 12 tries, even with us on probation.

You want to credit Dan for "not letting his team lose focus when we were down 10-zip to a bad Arky. But you fail to blame Dan for the team being down 10-zip to a bad Arky team to begin with.

Finally, I did give him some props, so please don't accuse me of something I didn't do. It weakens your argument.

The reality is, we believe some of the same things, but appear to differ on just how much praise Dan should get for beating Ole Miss at home and a really bad Arky, both in OT. You are of the camp that thinks it showed us all how great he did. I am of the camp that thinks y'all have blown those wins way outta proportion.

Yes, we played a freshman QB, and he did a good job. Yes, I credit Dan for coaching this young man up. One of the things I really like aout Dan is his ability to work with dual-purpose QB's. But you're kidding yourself if you don't believe that win was mainly due to our defense, and the job Geoff Collins did, combined witht he gutty performance put on by Dak.

That same Arkansas team that came one long td from beating LSU? I am not saying Dan is Saban 2.0. I am just saying that he did a better job this year than he did of having the team ready in 2012. So, Dan doesn't get any credit for the D, but gets all the blame when things don't work? You know, Dan did hire Collins and does sign off on his defensive decisions.
04-11-2014, 01:03 PM
blacklistedbully

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollodawg

That same Arkansas team that came one long td from beating LSU? I am not saying Dan is Saban 2.0. I am just saying that he did a better job this year than he did of having the team ready in 2012. So, Dan doesn't get any credit for the D, but gets all the blame when things don't work? You know, Dan did hire Collins and does sign off on his defensive decisions.

Pollo, what part are you not getting about me saying there are many things I love about Dan? You seem to keep insisting I'm nothing but critical, and/or want him gone. But what I am actually saying is in response to the OP that wants to laud Dan for those last 3 games and suggest that Dan silenced all his critics. That's just not true.

I like Dan. For the umpteenth time, I LOVE some of the things Dan has done at MSU. I will AGAIN say, I'm not sure we could find a better man to lead our program. But he absolutely, positively deserves criticism and scrutiny for the numerous mistakes he has made during his tenure here, with a particular focus on last year. IMO, one that is shared by many, he made enough big mistakes to at least question his ability to continue moving us forward.

IMO, he needs to show personal growth as a coach, to show he has learned from his mistakes, in order to deserve the kind of accolades some on here seem too willing to bestow based on that 3-game stretch.

As much as I defended him vociferously in 2009 due to the way we played well in losses, I will objectively hold-him-to-the-fire for the way we play, even in wins. This is not a question of whether or not we are overall a better program than we were when he arrived. We clearly are. It is a question of whether or not he can overcome the things he has done that have at times held us back, or kept us from taking that next step up.
04-11-2014, 01:08 PM
blacklistedbully

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollodawg

That same Arkansas team that came one long td from beating LSU? I am not saying Dan is Saban 2.0. I am just saying that he did a better job this year than he did of having the team ready in 2012. So, Dan doesn't get any credit for the D, but gets all the blame when things don't work? You know, Dan did hire Collins and does sign off on his defensive decisions.

The same Arky team that struggled to beat Samford at home and lost to SCar and Bama by a combined score of 104-7. See how that cherry-picking works?
04-11-2014, 01:34 PM
BulldogBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

The same Arky team that struggled to beat Samford at home and lost to SCar and Bama by a combined score of 104-7. See how that cherry-picking works?

It's hard to base things on scores of course. But that works both ways. In 2010 we beat Michigan 52-14 as we all know. We beat UAB 29-24. Now these are all for a myriad of reasons. But it doesn't mean that UAB is a 33pt favorite over Michigan that year. I know you all know this, but let's not try to make a Slippery Rock Rockets argument either way!!

I should say that last year's final 3 got me back off the fence. This year will show me something.... or not. We should win 8 minimum for the exact reasoning that you are coming from. Anything less will be a huge disappointment when you consider all 4 nonSEC should be wins and there is no SEC school we play in Starkville that is better than we are. Add in a KY team that is still not ready to win 6 and the Egg Bowl and the 8 win floor starts to come into perspective. But I really don't care if we win 'em 28-22 or 62-7. The pain of scores that should've been closer or not wears off pretty quickly but an ugly performance or losing any game we should win doesn't!!! But on some of those, I agree, there really should be no doubt by the 4th quarter or something is wrong.
04-11-2014, 03:42 PM
Pollodawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

Pollo, what part are you not getting about me saying there are many things I love about Dan? You seem to keep insisting I'm nothing but critical, and/or want him gone. But what I am actually saying is in response to the OP that wants to laud Dan for those last 3 games and suggest that Dan silenced all his critics. That's just not true.

I like Dan. For the umpteenth time, I LOVE some of the things Dan has done at MSU. I will AGAIN say, I'm not sure we could find a better man to lead our program. But he absolutely, positively deserves criticism and scrutiny for the numerous mistakes he has made during his tenure here, with a particular focus on last year. IMO, one that is shared by many, he made enough big mistakes to at least question his ability to continue moving us forward.

IMO, he needs to show personal growth as a coach, to show he has learned from his mistakes, in order to deserve the kind of accolades some on here seem too willing to bestow based on that 3-game stretch.

As much as I defended him vociferously in 2009 due to the way we played well in losses, I will objectively hold-him-to-the-fire for the way we play, even in wins. This is not a question of whether or not we are overall a better program than we were when he arrived. We clearly are. It is a question of whether or not he can overcome the things he has done that have at times held us back, or kept us from taking that next step up.

I agree that he doesn't deserve a raise or an extension or that ever critic has been--or should be--silenced. I am just stating that those last three games gave me some hope moving forward
04-11-2014, 04:59 PM
RougeDawg

Well we all know Dan can't possibly win COY this year because all media types have OM making a run at the BCS playoff.**
04-11-2014, 08:55 PM
hacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

Let me get this straight. You consider 2 OT wins over the 2 teams that finished in the bottom of our division, one of whom ended the year 3-9 were, "amazing coaching performances"? Really??

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulldogBear

I think you are right, but I also got the impression hacker's comments regarding Dan's coaching was coming from the angle of how we kind of came back from the dead to win the last 3, with the team not quitting and/or Mullen not "losing" the team.

This. Also, in case you haven't noticed, blacklistedbully, this thread is a more positive spin on the thread with the same title asking if he should be fired. I had to have a parallel lede.
04-11-2014, 09:10 PM
hacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

Auburn
Bowling Green
Kentucky

Auburn game is a great example. Dan did a terrific job getting is to a point where we could have and should have beat them. But he also did a terrible job of game-management and late-game play-calling that ultimately cost us the win.

Bowling Green, though decent, should not have been in a position to beat us at the end. We were a dropped pass away from losing that game. How does everybody feel about Dan today had their TE not dropped that pass?

UK was a bad, bad, bad football team, yet gave us all we could want.

So, let me say, I just read this thread for the first time and I think you are reading too far into the wording of the OP and coming overaggressive because of it, but I do disagree with you. I really do think Mullen coached his ass off the last few games of the season. All coaches make mistakes, and since we view the games through Maroon-colored glasses, Mullen's mistakes are magnified. Saban's kickers sucked this past year, but we're not faulting him for that like we are Mullen. Saban made a huge game management error by kicking that field goal that led to the Chris Davis return, but we tend to just look at that as "shit happens." If Mullen did that, I guarantee we'd never hear the end of it about how it was the dumbest coaching decision ever made. You also don't give us credit for almost pulling off the big wins, and that's fair. But if you don't give us credit for that, then you shouldn't give the Bowling Greens of the world credit for almost pulling off the big wins on us. You're having it both ways when you do that.

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