How Many 5*s for Dayton and Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by chef dixon

Starting next year our team is suddenly not young anymore, so I hope it translates well for us. I'd bet we have the most returning career minutes in the conference next year, if not damn near close. I'm ok with saying stars in recruiting doesn't matter, but we've got miles to go to be on the level of a team like Wisconsin regardless of recruiting similarities. A good chunk of this has to be on the coach. I'm willing for wait since Ray has been given an unfair hand, but next year goes a long way in swaying my opinion in either direction given an experienced roster and a chance to see a number of recruits he's directly responsible for.

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There is nothing we can do but wait . Nothing we say or do will get rid of the coach. It seems a lot of the on the fencers will use next year as the measuring stick. I hope me and all of the naysayers are wrong and that Ray is the guy. If he isn't, our basketball program will go into oblivion because he will get four years. And after next year if we see similar results as the first two years, everyone will be screaming to get rid of him. I would definitely rather Smoot, Engie, and Coach be right and gloat personally .

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

There is nothing we can do but wait . Nothing we say or do will get rid of the coach. It seems a lot of the on the fencers will use next year as the measuring stick. I hope me and all of the naysayers are wrong and that Ray is the guy. If he isn't, our basketball program will go into oblivion because he will get four years. And after next year if we see similar results as the first two years, everyone will be screaming to get rid of him. I would definitely rather Smoot, Engie, and Coach be right and gloat personally .

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If you are a Mississippi State fan you damn well better be pulling for Ray to come around. Otherwise, we are looking at the '18-'19 season before we will have any real expectations.

That's what I said. I don't want to see us fail. Nothing in that message said anything otherwise.

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Originally Posted by chef dixon

Starting next year our team is suddenly not young anymore, so I hope it translates well for us. I'd bet we have the most returning career minutes in the conference next year, if not damn near close. I'm ok with saying stars in recruiting doesn't matter, but we've got miles to go to be on the level of a team like Wisconsin regardless of recruiting similarities. A good chunk of this has to be on the coach. I'm willing for wait since Ray has been given an unfair hand, but next year goes a long way in swaying my opinion in either direction given an experienced roster and a chance to see a number of recruits he's directly responsible for.

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I agree with essentially all of this.

This year, Ray had basically one player playing for us that he himself picked out and decided he wanted to have on his team. Next year, he should have at least 6. And we will have a lot of juniors on next year's roster. If we're still a joke, everyone will be off the bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

That's what I said. I don't want to see us fail. Nothing in that message said anything otherwise.

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I was agreeing with you MarketingBully. I guess I should have started my post with this:

"I agree completely, MarketingBully01. If you are a Mississippi State fan you damn well ......... "

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Originally Posted by chef dixon

Starting next year our team is suddenly not young anymore, so I hope it translates well for us. I'd bet we have the most returning career minutes in the conference next year, if not damn near close. I'm ok with saying stars in recruiting doesn't matter, but we've got miles to go to be on the level of a team like Wisconsin regardless of recruiting similarities. A good chunk of this has to be on the coach. I'm willing for wait since Ray has been given an unfair hand, but next year goes a long way in swaying my opinion in either direction given an experienced roster and a chance to see a number of recruits he's directly responsible for.

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Agreed on all of this.

The "talent problem" people are seeing with us IMO is more of a "youth" problem. 4/5th of the starting 5 are capable of being good/very good SEC basketball players, and we haven't seen the projected 5th play yet. In a normal situation, those guys would be playing limited, back-up minutes in their first 2 years and learning under a good group of upperclassmen -- then taking the mantle their 2nd-3rd year when they are developed and ready. Unfortunately, they weren't permitted that luxury this time -- and they had to play WELL before they were ready. What we saw is what we got from that. But we'll see rewards from it beginning next year...

My argument is that a large percentage of our fanbase looks at the way Stansbury did it or the Kentucky model and think that's what we have to follow to win -- while ignoring the Dayton, Wisconsin, etc model that's equally as effective -- and probably more logically maintainable at MSU...

Serious question....

How many players off our current team could fit in and play in the system that Bo Ryan runs that involves lots of passing and patience on offense and not forcing the ball as well as tough as nails half court man to man? Coach Ryan pulls a player every time they miss a blockout or turn the ball over (Wisconsin averaged less than 8 Turnovers as a TEAM this season lowest in the nation) We averaged a little over 14. Wisconsin also shoots FTs at over 75% as a team (we shot 66%)

Ryan stresses thinks like turnovers, rebounding and free throw shooting and takes advantage of them when playing more athletic teams.


Not many


Wisconsin doesn't win with star players (like Kentucky) they win with their system, coaching and being fundamentally sound. The fact that they have some mature guys like Kaminsky, Brust, and Gasser who give them leadership also helps with the younger athletic players like Jackson, Dekker and Hayes.


There's a reason that Bo Ryan doesn't recruit 5 and 4 star guys from Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit etc and its not b/c they aren't really good players, but because he doesn't fell that they are a good fit for his program. Very similar to Bobby Knight when he coached at Indiana. It takes a special type of player to play for Ryan in his system at Wisconsin.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

There is nothing we can do but wait . Nothing we say or do will get rid of the coach. It seems a lot of the on the fencers will use next year as the measuring stick. I hope me and all of the naysayers are wrong and that Ray is the guy. If he isn't, our basketball program will go into oblivion because he will get four years. And after next year if we see similar results as the first two years, everyone will be screaming to get rid of him. I would definitely rather Smoot, Engie, and Coach be right and gloat personally .

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Oblivion is what Rick Ray inherited. We are not in the Kentucky class of program and it will take us longer than them to climb out of it.
Ray will have to improve the program steadily from here on out and it's going to take him recruiting well to do it. Hopefully we will show some of that next year and build on it.

I just think people have a false idea of how long it takes to rebuild combined with a short memory of how bad it was when he got here or a lack of appreciation for how bad of a program he inherited.

I hope he makes it but it's gonna take more height in the back court than he's recruited so far. It doesn't matter if you can shoot if you can't get a shot off in conference play. Maybe some of these first year players can get us going in the right direction next year.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Compare that to John Calapari, who recruits the stars but does so only because he can't develop a player worth a damn. His x's and o's basketball coaching also sucks, and he needs 5 athletes to put on the floor just to make things work.

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What? You couldn't be anymore wrong. A strong argument could be made that Cal develops players better and faster than any other coach in college basketball right now. He gets one year to do it and a NC and currently playing in the Sweet 16 backs that up. The Kentucky team playing tonight is much much better than the one at the beginning of THIS season. That's light speed development. Granted the players are more talented athletically than anyone else is getting but COME ON MAN!

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

. I would definitely rather Smoot, Engie, and Coach be right and gloat personally .

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I sure enjoyed it after the Egg Bowl...even though I went easy on everyone

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

13 game losing streaks in both seasons he was head coach. In fact with the way we started, you would have had to have a catastrophic collapse to finish the way we did. If he had gotten to 16-17 wins with no streak like that, no one would be having to defend him because no one would be complaining and we would see everyone's vision that things are looking better. But a 13 game losing streak in one of the worst conferences out there will bring with it their skeptics.

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^^^^

Well, at least we are no longer being embarrassed!

Here's a defense. He took over the shittiest situation in major college basketball with the dumbest fans to boot.

That's difficult to overcome.

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Originally Posted by Schultzy

Here's a defense. He took over the shittiest situation in major college basketball with the dumbest fans to boot.

That's difficult to overcome.

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Whatever, just give it a rest....

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Originally Posted by Schultzy

Here's a defense. He took over the shittiest situation in major college basketball with the dumbest fans to boot.

That's difficult to overcome.

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I always love when people say stuff like this. Since you are a fan of Mississippi State, you just called yourself dumb as well...

first of all, the star system in basketball is a bigger joke than it is in football. Chris Jones was a 2 star 7 months before he signed. They miss on kids.

Secondly, how many five stars did Dayton play against in their conference? Wisconsin? And did Wisconsin win their conference championship? Or was that a Michigan vs Mich State battle?

let's see how Dayton survives against an SEC school that does recruit five stars... game time.

The Dayton Three Stars are getting pounded by the Florida Five Stars right now.

stars win.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

I always love when people say stuff like this. Since you are a fan of Mississippi State, you just called yourself dumb as well...

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I'm smart enough to know it would take more than two seasons to recover from the place this program was at when coach Ray took over.

There's a time to be patient and a time to complain. Considering the starting point this staff began with, the hell raising started way too soon.

Reasonable people can disagree on the time frame but under the circumstances, year two is way too soon.

losing in year two didn't cause people to start complaining, losing 13 in a row in year two caused people to start complaining. No excuse for being the worst.

Year 3 will answer alot of questions