Stans last year was one of the worst coaching jobs I have ever seen. Not getting to the tourney with 2 first round NBA drafts picks was a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
Stans last year was one of the worst coaching jobs I have ever seen. Not getting to the tourney with 2 first round NBA drafts picks was a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
I agree with generally being a middle of the pack conference program but with a high ceiling. NCAA tourney 40% of the time with a sweet sixteen once a decade and round of 32 as well.
Disagree on facilities. Humphrey Coliseum and the practice facilities are very nice and a good recruiting tool. The Hump is one of the smartest projects MSU has ever done. 10,000 is plenty for college hoops, even better than the 24,000 seat antiseptic (and not sold out) facilities at NC and Tennessee.
My point of view is that if you take the point we fire Stansbury and use the last 16 years as your base MSU is the #4 program in the SEC in terms of wins. We lacked in postseason wins amongst other things but that's my floor. Why fire someone to lower your floor? I get that it most likely takes dropping before you can rise higher. Ok. I'm not ok with that drop going so low it takes 8 years to get back to where we were when we fired Stans. And I assume most of you aren't ok with that either.
Stansbury was proven to be outcoached by many. If he can keep MSU at #4 I'm not going to lower that bar for the next guy. I'd have the same expectations for ANYONE that takes over. Our facilities are just fine. Within 10 years we probably need to do something with the Hump but we ain't poor. We need a coach that can develop players. MS, AL, TN and LA produce fantastic athletes. We need someone that can do what Mullen is doing to an extent. Craig Sword would be All-SEC if he could shoot functionally at all. We need a coach that can turn a player like Craig Sword into an elite player. Same with Ware, Ready etc. Then the domino effect starts happening. Players start to realize that MSU will turn them into elite players and maybe NBA players. That has to start happening somehow. We will never be able to compete with Kentucky and Florida if we can't figure out a way to produce NBA talent. We produce NFL talent. We produce MLB talent. I'm expecting basketball to keep up atleast somewhat. We've had 1 1st round pick in the last 15 years. That MUST change. We are the STATE's University and the largest school in MS. Mississippi produces NBA players. How many have come from MS in the last 15 years? It's way more than one. Mississippi State must round up its State's horses and we'd be a top 25 program again. Gone needs to be the days we let our State's best go win elsewhere. I need help here. Y'all are all about some football recruiting. We have multiple posters telling everyone our top 25 targets in football for this next season already. Where's the bball fanatics for recruiting? I try my best but some of y'all need to speak up a little more. Let us know about the guy at your high school that put in 40 on Friday night. Lets all of us become better aware of what MS has to offer in basketball and maybe it will trickle on over to Ray and his staff. We have hundreds of fans showing Twitter love to football recruits yet how many even know of any other HS players besides Malik Newman?
Our fans seem to be "all-in" with baseball and football. If we all had that same attitude towards basketball we'd be right back on top in no time. Hail State
Stands was fired because of the dumpster fire the program had become. It wasnt about wins and losses
I'm not lowering any expectations for Ray either- let me be clear. This was simply a 2 yr rebuild because of where he took over the program and the crap he had to "weed" out.
Starting next year, the expectations of playing in postseason return.
To paraphrase Lee Trevino, if you call us "great" what do you call Kentucky?
SEC wise I want us to be .500 or better 4 of 5 years with occasional forays into the 12-15 win territory.
The off year or 2 should be no worse than 5 to 7 wins.
To me that's what the last quarter century has proven is possible.
If a coach can't do that in what the SEC has become in bball, he's awful. I hope Ray can get it done.
Stans could coach D and early in his tenure we rebounded well.
His undoing was never learning to manage difficult personalities or hire someone who could and listen to them.
I've always thought that basketball is a great way for us to compete at the top of the league. In football our division signs multiple top 5 classes. In basketball if we sign a couple of studs, maybe even semi-studs, we can easily be in the top five in the league. A lot of the schools in the league don't even seem to care about basketball. The problem I see is that outside of JPS and a handful of other state schools I don't think we are going to get much talent from Mississippi. I've been to quite a few 4A/5A basketball games over the past few years and the talent just doesn't seem to be there. Some of the coaching I saw was worse than the playing. I recently went to a junior high game to watch a friend's kid play and most of the kids looked like they'd hardly ever played basketball.
Sir, I don't know you, but this is perfect. Your observations are completely correct. For the most part, the coaching in this state (development from junior high through high school) is severely lacking. For us to truly succeed, we need to get more fundamental players from out of MS. Some of our best players in recent history are out-of-staters. (Sword, Bost, Jamont, Varnado, Stewart, Power, Roberts, etc.) -- Most of the guys who don't pan out or transfer are talented players that lack fundamentals (Shaun smith, Gardner, Deville Smith, Osby, etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by LC Dawg
good postQuote:
Originally Posted by LC Dawg
If Dan Mullen can find them in football we can find them in basketball. We only need two a year maybe less maybe more. Dan needs 10-15 every year. In the entire State of Mississippi we just need TWO basketball players per year. Recruit better. Plain and simple. For each player we've struck out on there's been 3 others leave and be good players elsewhere. Some are NBA players. We don't have to survive solely on MS but it needs to be our bread and butter first.
Just out of curiosity, who are some of these that have left Mississippi and been good elsewhere? And don't give me Q Ross and Johnny O'Bryant because they chose to leave. We recruited both of them and lost.
Most are in denial of how good a coach Stansbury was. In fact you are understating his accomplishments in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
Stansbury had our program behind only Florida and Kentucky at one point - and not briefly. Hardly average or "above average". Stansbury at one point was top twenty in winning percentage among active coaches. Hardly average or above average. As you state, Stansbury had our program in postseason 11 of 14 years. Hardly average or just above average. Stansbury averaged 21 wins per year.
So all of the Stansbury "haters" can state their opinions all they want - we are all entitled to them and none are illegitimate. Although you will find the majority of posts aimed at Stansbiry "supporters" are filled with harsh criticisms and language aimed at discrediting them.
Unfortunately for the "haters" you cannot change history, records, or comparisons to other teams which is what I believe frustrates them the most.
So to address your question, we were once a great program within the conference and one of the better and more respected in the nation. We competed for championships, and played for postseason with high expectations.
So to expect only what once was is not unreasonable.
Now - if history serves correctly, the responses to this post will be in the order of "Stands ran the program into the ground", "What are wins without discipline", "Bury was a great recruiter but sucked as a coach", "I hate Meo", and much more hyperbole and statements made despite the facts.
About covered it all..,.
I agree that we don't need to lose the Mississippi recruits to other schools but I think basketball recruiting is just an entirely different animal than football recruiting. I think top high school football players in Mississippi want to play in the SEC and top high school basketball players want to play in the NBA. When they think NBA they think schools like Kentucky. The one and done rule hurts us, and the kids, because a top kid thinks he has to go to a Duke or a Kentucky to get to the NBA in a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I think the success of SEC football has hurt basketball. It wasn't that long ago that kids like Bear Wilson and Elijah Staley didn't even play high school football, now they're signing football scholarships.
I think if we can get just one top recruit we can change this whole mentality. I don't think the first top recruit will be Malik Newman but I hope Rick Ray gets one soon.
I really hope Coach Ray gets things going because, with no disrespect to last years baseball team, that '96 SEC tournament to Final Four run was the most exciting thing I've witnessed in MSU sports history.
This is just a continuation of the diatribe every day on Six Pack with the same cast led by Coach 34. Stans blew it with Sidney and admitted it. However, coach is going to try and convince anybody who will listen that Ray is a better coach. The stats don't prove it and he will get 2 more years to try and prove it but I will go on record now saying we won't come close to matching the success Stans had over the 14 years and the SEC is worst now than it ever was during Stans career. Our preseason schedule was weaker than any we ever had before and we can't sniff at selling out the Hump. We now have a great practice facility which Stans had for one year. You guys rationalize all you want to but without players it isn't going to happen and until I see some, I have no confidence in even getting to.500 in the league anytime soon. We shall see who is right but one thing for sure is this, it won't be coach's last post on Stansbury, he can't go one day without the obsession, and most of us see through it.
1. If you hate Coach so much, why exactly did you move over to this site? SPS is still up and going.Quote:
Originally Posted by coastdoglover
2. Stan's last 3 years were embarrassing. We had very talented teams, and he blew it with them. It amazes me how so many people complain about us not taking the next step in football, but they were perfectly content with remaining the status quo with Stansbury. It was time for him to go.
3. Ray may not be the answer. He may be. Give him time. If he's not, then we will try again. The constant moaning does nothing positive, because Ray is going to be our coach for at least two more years. Either support him or don't. But if you aren't going to give him the benefit of supporting the basketball team, at least give him the benefit of not bashing him every single day.
I. I don't hate coach, just disagree with him about basketball and his obsession with Stans. I agree with him on just about everything else concerning MSU. 2. Most people were not content but also recognized that a guy who had won as many as Stans wasn't near as bad as some of you made him out to be. We are seeing now what happened and even the most astute fan, knows this team has no chance to get to post season much less the sweet sixteen which coach and his buddies said was all that counted. 3. Ray may or not be the answer but the proof is in the pudding and without the Stans players he recruited, this team would be worst than awful. I have bashed Ray very little but I will guarantee you any bashing now of Ray is miniscule compared to how Coach bashed Stans for a decade. It goes with the territory. You can't have it both ways. Bash Stans for 10 years and then say the next guy gets a pass. That dog won't hunt. If we had replaced Stans with a proven winner, who might have actually been able to keep Hood, then this discussion would not be taking place. Stricklin blew it and 2 years from now you are saying it was fine to just throw away 4 years of basketball and start over again. That is a stupid ass philosophy but heck, we did it for decades in football so I guess we can say that is the MSU way. I tend to differ, so sorry that bothers you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intramural All-American
I respect that response. The fact of the matter though is that there is no proof that ray can't turn it around. He hasn't even had a full team yet. Next year he will, and next year is when he has to start winning. Coach may have built him up before he started out, but now he is saying the same thing I just said. Year three is the true litmus test. It was not Rays fault that he was put in the position he was in. Give him a chance to to dig out of it before forsaking him. By the way the two names I really remember people wanting during the coaching search were Martin and Payne. Martin was a winner that has sucked at SC and Payne was a ridiculous name. That's the thing about coaching hires, you never know what's going to happen, but hindsight is always 20/20.
I don't think anyone really wanted Frank Martin. They were just suprised USCe got him. Might of been better for them if they didn't. That guy is certified psycho.
Completely different in football and basketball. You can take a good athlete, start him playing football as late as his junior or senior year of hs football, and outside of maybe qb or center, can be more or less caught up with people that have been playing their whole life by the time they're a freshman or sophomore in college without having to be a super intelligent player. In basketball, a freak athlete can still catch up, but for the most part, they're going to have to be a freak among freaks to be able to operate in two years like the ball is part of them and be highly intelligent/instinctual in order to have an overall game. You can compartmentalize the game some for most positions on the football field. In basketball, even if you want to be a defensive/rebounding specialist or a shooting specialist, you still have to understand all of the offense and understand where everybody will be on defense and be able to figure it out instantaneously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Honestly, if we (boosters, fans, message board heroes, etc.) don't move past the infighting over who we fired and who we hired we are going to piss away a great opportunity with a good coach. Sad, sad, sad.
Everybody needs to just sack up and figure out how to move forward together.