Coaching still matters

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Lol. Nah, I don't even know ms7!!
I just know we have an absolutely pathetic o line and our O line coach is terrible. If this isn't shored up ( and I see no improvement right now), then with the schedule we have, Arnett will be Interim Coach by game 7. Boosters will force Selmon's hand. That's assuming Selmon is still here. If he's not, Lebby may not make it past the first 5 games.

We have pieces, like a good QB, receivers, and defensive backfield. But we need O line more than anything. We aren't getting any help there as of now. Hopefully that will change this week.

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Getting our defense fixed is much more imperative than the offensive line. I'm guessing we would go with Roads or MacIntyre as an interim before we go with Arnett because of you know what happened last time.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...oosiers-elite/

From the article- "Cignetti built his legend through development, bringing lesser-resourced programs to national prominence. With the investment at Indiana, the Hoosiers are a legitimate recruiting power in the making. That should scare everyone."

Older players start out as younger players at one point in time. Cignetti based on this article it seems to me actually developed a lot of their players that started their run at James Madison and brought them over with him to Indiana. And if you look at the rest of Indiana's portal class that year it's mostly players that have a similar profile to the ones we typically get. That's the advantage to hiring a veteran coach from G6 vs. a coordinator. Coordinators don't have a team of players in place to bring with them to their next job.

The year after Cignetti's first year when they went 11-2 they were able to and 3 four star portal recruits including Mendoza who won the Heisman. It was much easier for them to recruit out of the portal because at this time last year they had proof of concept. He also had a core group in place that he was able to build around and fill in gaps with the portal.

If you compare it to MSU now, right now our QB is going to be a sophomore and he won't start to hit his peak until 2027. Nonetheless, he is a player we can build around and it is very evident that is what MSU is trying to do. That's not to say we can't win in 2026 or shouldn't expect to. In fact, improvement is imperative to showing proof of concept. What we're hoping is that MSU can build a veteran team that has the ability to win 9 to 11 games every year from 2027-2029.

The other thing is we were way behind Indiana in NIL two years ago. We've also had to make that part of rebuilding our football program as well.

But once guys like KT, JJ Hill, Crosby, Lockhart, Womack, Cotton, etc. become juniors and seniors we should be very good.

The best thing for MSU right now is for Lebby to continue to improve because it's hard to get a veteran team when we're constantly changing coaches. Like Lebby or not.

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The thing about this is we, not only MSU, have to keep them and develop them in your system. Unfort until the Transfer rules are brought back to reality this is very hard to do.

Anybody that watches Indiana play and thinks they are the 72nd most talented team in the country is ****ing dumb.

I'll take a 24 year old 3 star or a Ben Beckwith over a 19 year old 4-star every day. Indiana's starting offense has two 24's and three 23's on it. Now add 4 22's. Lot easier to be disciplined with mature players. Shit- Indiana is an XFL team almost.

Cignetti is a very good coach. They have also been extremely smart in building that roster.

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Originally Posted by parabrave

The thing about this is we, not only MSU, have to keep them and develop them in your system. Unfort until the Transfer rules are brought back to reality this is very hard to do.

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And this is where I would point to Indiana spending serious money. Otherwise why didn't their roster get ripped apart by more traditionally resourced programs after going 11-1 last season?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...oosiers-elite/

From the article- "Cignetti built his legend through development, bringing lesser-resourced programs to national prominence. With the investment at Indiana, the Hoosiers are a legitimate recruiting power in the making. That should scare everyone."

Older players start out as younger players at one point in time. Cignetti based on this article it seems to me actually developed a lot of their players that started their run at James Madison and brought them over with him to Indiana. And if you look at the rest of Indiana's portal class that year it's mostly players that have a similar profile to the ones we typically get. That's the advantage to hiring a veteran coach from G6 vs. a coordinator. Coordinators don't have a team of players in place to bring with them to their next job.

The year after Cignetti's first year when they went 11-2 they were able to and 3 four star portal recruits including Mendoza who won the Heisman. It was much easier for them to recruit out of the portal because at this time last year they had proof of concept. He also had a core group in place that he was able to build around and fill in gaps with the portal.

If you compare it to MSU now, right now our QB is going to be a sophomore and he won't start to hit his peak until 2027. Nonetheless, he is a player we can build around and it is very evident that is what MSU is trying to do. That's not to say we can't win in 2026 or shouldn't expect to. In fact, improvement is imperative to showing proof of concept. What we're hoping is that MSU can build a veteran team that has the ability to win 9 to 11 games every year from 2027-2029.

The other thing is we were way behind Indiana in NIL two years ago. We've also had to make that part of rebuilding our football program as well.

But once guys like KT, JJ Hill, Crosby, Lockhart, Womack, Cotton, etc. become juniors and seniors we should be very good.

The best thing for MSU right now is for Lebby to continue to improve because it's hard to get a veteran team when we're constantly changing coaches. Like Lebby or not.

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This is a spot on post. I don't think Lebby is good, but we need for him to be. We need stability but we have to get much better next year. I'm not optimistic.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

This is a spot on post. I don't think Lebby is good, but we need for him to be. We need stability but we have to get much better next year. I'm not optimistic.

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What do you consider the threshold for keeping Lebby?

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Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)

And this is where I would point to Indiana spending serious money. Otherwise why didn't their roster get ripped apart by more traditionally resourced programs after going 11-1 last season?

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Great point. Nobody raided their roster. They also spent $2MM on a QB that worked out well.

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Originally Posted by Brobi-wan

What do you consider the threshold for keeping Lebby?

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Good question. It's year three. He needs to go 7-5 at a minimum and continue to show progress. Also his play calling and game management needs to be improved tremendously.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Good question. It's year three. He needs to go 7-5 at a minimum and continue to show progress. Also his play calling and game management needs to be improved tremendously.

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6-6 and he is back 100%....I'm not convinced he wouldnt have a chance to remain at 5-7

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Originally Posted by Coach34

6-6 and he is back 100%

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I wouldn't doubt it.

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Originally Posted by parabrave

The thing about this is we, not only MSU, have to keep them and develop them in your system. Unfort until the Transfer rules are brought back to reality this is very hard to do.

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If there is one thing MSU has done well with the portal it is keeping most of the players we want to keep. Sure we lose a Kevin Coleman or a Zavion Thomas every now and then and both to their home state schools.

But the vast majority we keep- Issac Smith, Zakari Tillman, Fluff, KT, Kelley Jones, and etc.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

6-6 and he is back 100%....I'm not convinced he wouldnt have a chance to remain at 5-7

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I don't care what Robbie and Brian say we are not firing a coach that is showing improvement every year. MSU has never fired a football coach that has improved from one year to the next.

Now maybe some boosters that matter get real impatient with Lebby at 6-6 but I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)

And this is where I would point to Indiana spending serious money. Otherwise why didn't their roster get ripped apart by more traditionally resourced programs after going 11-1 last season?

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Great post. I wonder how much they truly spent to retain players. From what I see online, it was around 14 million. Which if thats true, that's not alot considering what some of the big boys paid. That could very well speak on the character of the players he recruited and developed. Maybe they trusted the system and was willing to take less money to stay with Cignetti and win.

This is just a thought. Idk how much they paid in NIL. There are alot of numbers out there. Either way it's the most impressive turnaround I've ever seen at any level of sports. Props to them

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't care what Robbie and Brian say we are not firing a coach that is showing improvement every year. MSU has never fired a football coach that has improved from one year to the next.

Now maybe some boosters that matter get real impatient with Lebby at 6-6 but I doubt it.

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Exactly. Only way it happens is if football gets the equivalent to scale 8 figure donation baseball got to fire Lemon. Which would be about 20MM in football

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

If there is one thing MSU has done well with the portal it is keeping most of the players we want to keep. Sure we lose a Kevin Coleman or a Zavion Thomas every now and then and both to their home state schools.

But the vast majority we keep- Issac Smith, Zakari Tillman, Fluff, KT, Kelley Jones, and etc.

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This is true. We have been able to retain a large amount of our big time players, minus a few as you mentioned. I've actually been surprised with some of the ones we have been able keep. Figured they would jump ship if Im being honest with the way the seasons have gone.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Exactly. Only way it happens is if football gets the equivalent to scale 8 figure donation baseball got to fire Lemon. Which would be about 20MM in football

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And then they're also going to have to promise massive donations in the form of NIL as well on top of that.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

This is true. We have been able to retain a large amount of our big time players, minus a few as you mentioned. I've actually been surprised with some of the ones we have been able keep. Figured they would jump ship if Im being honest with the way the seasons have gone.

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I think MSU treats our players very well for the most part and it is home for the Mississippi guys. We pay them competitively too.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

6-6 and he is back 100%....I'm not convinced he wouldnt have a chance to remain at 5-7

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I agree with this. I don't think he's going anywhere unless he wins only 4 games and they're not competitive.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't care what Robbie and Brian say we are not firing a coach that is showing improvement every year. MSU has never fired a football coach that has improved from one year to the next.

Now maybe some boosters that matter get real impatient with Lebby at 6-6 but I doubt it.

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Those two are just pissed their boy got let go for feeding them info. Unprofessional clowns.

I agree that is a big part of their beef. Before, I paid little attention to them and now I don't even listen at all.