Talent comparison to other SEC teams

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Originally Posted by Coach34

almost everybody that put up stats in 22 was recruited by someone other than Leach.

Rogers
Marks
Johnson
Harvey
Ducking
Tulu
Williams
Walley

As was most of the D

Those guys were recruited for Leach

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There is no "recruited for" anymore with the portal. Leach kept those players. Especially Tulu who was on the verge of decommitting until we hired Leach who kept him. If we count Bumphis for Dan as we should- then Leach should get the same credit for keeping Tulu. Harvey was a late add by Leach as well due to changing offenses. RaRa was our best receiver by YPR in 2022. NIL and the portal really only hurt us with Polk who was the most productive MSU WR since Fred Ross and was a Leach commit. Also most of our offensive line- Cole Smith, Lasoya, Nick Jones- were Leach recruits and I could include Percy Lewis who was rotated in heavily. We also had a Heisman candidate QB on the bench and the Outback Bowl MVP and four star Zavion Thomas were on the bench too and both had a big impact on the season by the end.

On defense, Charlton made one of the biggest plays in the Egg Bowl, DeShawn Page was a starter but almost all of the secondary were Leach recruits- Forbes, Richardson, Jalen Green, and Jackie Matthews were Leach recruits. Collin Duncan wasn't and he was our worst player in the secondary- so thanks Joe I guess. No idea why Marcus Banks didn't start over him.

Both kickers were Leach recruits as well.

Heck- THIS year there is a good chance that there will be more Leach recruits starting than Arnett recruits- Boone, Reese, and Mosley on offense and Trevion Williams ,Zakari Tillman and Kelley Jones. And I really should include Isaac Smith who committed days after Leach passed away and Seth Davis who will be a good role player for us.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

There is no "recruited for" anymore with the portal. Leach kept those players. Especially Tulu who was on the verge of decommitting until we hired Leach who kept him. If we count Bumphis for Dan as we should- then Leach should get the same credit for keeping Tulu. Harvey was a late add by Leach as well due to changing offenses. RaRa was our best receiver by YPR in 2022. NIL and the portal really only hurt us with Polk who was the most productive MSU WR since Fred Ross and was a Leach commit. Also most of our offensive line- Cole Smith, Lasoya, Nick Jones- were Leach recruits and I could include Percy Lewis who was rotated in heavily. We also had a Heisman candidate QB on the bench and the Outback Bowl MVP and four star Zavion Thomas were on the bench too and both had a big impact on the season by the end.

On defense, Charlton made one of the biggest plays in the Egg Bowl, DeShawn Page was a starter but almost all of the secondary were Leach recruits- Forbes, Richardson, Jalen Green, and Jackie Matthews were Leach recruits. Collin Duncan wasn't and he was our worst player in the secondary- so thanks Joe I guess. No idea why Marcus Banks didn't start over him.

Both kickers were Leach recruits as well.

Heck- THIS year there is a good chance that there will be more Leach recruits starting than Arnett recruits- Boone, Reese, and Mosley on offense and Trevion Williams ,Zakari Tillman and Kelley Jones. And I really should include Isaac Smith who committed days after Leach passed away and Seth Davis who will be a good role player for us.

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hilarious. Thats CNN level spin. The major players of 2022 were guys that werent recruited by Leach. His recruiting was shit. Spin away

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Originally Posted by Coach34

hilarious. Thats CNN level spin. The major players of 2022 were guys that werent recruited by Leach. His recruiting was shit. Spin away

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I think he would have been fine getting offensive talent. Especially once we had a qb that was a sec talent. Kids would want to play in that system with a talented QB (love will but he was limited physically).

But yea, the writing was on the wall defensively.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I think he would have been fine getting offensive talent. Especially once we had a qb that was a sec talent. Kids would want to play in that system with a talented QB (love will but he was limited physically).

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He could have certainly kept pulling some WR's and QB's

We have always had a talent deficit in the SEC but the difference was with Mullen and Leach we won a lot of games because they were good coaches. Now we neither and didn?t with Croom, Arnett or Moorhead

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Originally Posted by Coach34

hilarious. Thats CNN level spin. The major players of 2022 were guys that werent recruited by Leach. His recruiting was shit. Spin away

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CNN level spin would be presenting narrative like saying that Leach was a bad recruiter without presenting facts. I presented facts. Like Scott Jennings.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I think he would have been fine getting offensive talent. Especially once we had a qb that was a sec talent. Kids would want to play in that system with a talented QB (love will but he was limited physically).

But yea, the writing was on the wall defensively.

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Based on my research Leach actually recruited the portal well on both sides of the ball. Honestly, I think he would have done even better with our current resources. Only because he did pretty well without the resources.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

We have always had a talent deficit in the SEC but the difference was with Mullen and Leach we won a lot of games because they were good coaches. Now we neither and didn?t with Croom, Arnett or Moorhead

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This is true. But part of the problem is MSU's overall lack of commitment to football recruiting which I think goes back to going on probation multiple times which I blame on the administration for not standing up for MSU. Also, Dan wasn't a good recruiter either and had issues with roster management that held us back while he was our coach.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

This is true. But part of the problem is MSU's overall lack of commitment to football recruiting which I think goes back to going on probation multiple times which I blame on the administration for not standing up for MSU. Also, Dan wasn't a good recruiter either and had issues with roster management that held us back while he was our coach.

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Dan was a much better recruiter than we give him credit for. He wasn't personable and didn't enjoy it, but the results speak for themselves.

Well, when you go from a system guy (Leach) and compound that with someone not able to do the job and changing the system (Arnett), you get last year. Fortunately, the portal (managed correctly) provides instant relief.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

We have always had a talent deficit in the SEC but the difference was with Mullen and Leach we won a lot of games because they were good coaches. Now we neither and didn?t with Croom, Arnett or Moorhead

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Massive talent gap between Mullen teams and Leach teams - history of the players says so. I don't care if Mullen was a developmental guy or not, he had NFL talent on every team.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

This is true. But part of the problem is MSU's overall lack of commitment to football recruiting which I think goes back to going on probation multiple times which I blame on the administration for not standing up for MSU. Also, Dan wasn't a good recruiter either and had issues with roster management that held us back while he was our coach.

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Wild take; look at the NFL talent Dan assembled? Not counting Cam that he almost got too. Mullen probably got the most talent on campus as anyone. Jackie would be right behind him. Not ironically, two most successful coaches in MSU history.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Based on my research Leach actually recruited the portal well on both sides of the ball. Honestly, I think he would have done even better with our current resources. Only because he did pretty well without the resources.

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Other than QB and WR, what positions did he recruit well at?

Hard to miss on WR when you sign 25 and a WR knows you throw the ball 50-60 times a game.

He ignored the trenches and defense.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Other than QB and WR, what positions did he recruit well at?

Hard to miss on WR when you sign 25 and a WR knows you throw the ball 50-60 times a game.

He ignored the trenches and defense.

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Exactly. The facts as Todd tried to spin come down to the simple fact that Leach's best players were recruited by previous coaches

Leach was not necessarily the greatest recruiter, but that was also because his system was geared towards certain types of players. His steady improvement each year he was here along with his past track record proves that he would?ve continued to be successful here. I can?t say if he would?ve ever made the playoffs, but I guarantee we would be in a better situation than we are today. Mullen made it known he hated recruiting and was lazy with it, hence his issues at UF. He did well though with finding NFL talent that high school recruiting services did not find. Neither Leach nor Mullen were perfect, but they are both by far better than anyone else we have had in the past 20-25 years.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Wild take; look at the NFL talent Dan assembled? Not counting Cam that he almost got too. Mullen probably got the most talent on campus as anyone. Jackie would be right behind him. Not ironically, two most successful coaches in MSU history.

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It's not about what he got for me as much as what he could have and should have potentially gotten that he didn't. What he missed on would have been able to get us at least 1-2 more wins a year and that is absolutely program changing to say the least. Cam is actually a good example. He wasn't willing to do what he needed to do to get him even though at that time he would have had plenty of booster support to pull it off. And he missed on AJ Brown and you just can't do that with a prospect like that in your backyard because again he wasn't willing to play the game he needed to go it done. We had two separate seasons where we had to start a DT and a TE on the o-line because we missed on o-line recruiting. Look at how many WR's and o-linemen Dan put in the NFL compared to defensive players and running backs. And even on two of those- Martinas Rankin could have helped us in 2015 when we redshirted him when we started Warren at OT and it took until midseason of 2016 to figure out that Elgton Jenkins was one of our best o-linemen.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Other than QB and WR, what positions did he recruit well at?

Hard to miss on WR when you sign 25 and a WR knows you throw the ball 50-60 times a game.

He ignored the trenches and defense.

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He didn't "ignore" it. Read my posts in this thread and I've already spelled it out very clearly. Who recruited Albert Reese the best offensive lineman in the state last year? He was able to keep Charles Cross and developed him as well. On defense he was able to land Forbes and Decamarion Richardson and basically our entire secondary in the portal and he recruited Isaac Smith, Trevion Williams, and Kelley Jones among others who are still playing and will be starters/major contributors for us this season. And our defensive line would have had major problems if he didn't add in Randy Charlton.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Wild take; look at the NFL talent Dan assembled? Not counting Cam that he almost got too. Mullen probably got the most talent on campus as anyone. Jackie would be right behind him. Not ironically, two most successful coaches in MSU history.

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Offensively? Dak and??

Defensively, I would be here all day.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Because Mississippi State University has made some the most dumb ass ****ing decisions when it comes to football.

Spurrier was told no and went to Duke thus starting his storied career. Jimbo Fisher, when he was in his prime, was ready to bring over half the staff with him from LSU, including Muschamp as DC, and LT wouldn't return his phone calls. LT hired Croom instead.

And that's just two examples. There's plenty of others.

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Not saying what you said is wrong, just that it is incomplete. Decisions were made poorly, starting with the firing of Allyn McKeen back in the late 40's but it's mostly due to the absolute fact Mississippi State has been the smallest and poorest of all the SEC schools and it's not close.

We had to sell home games to other schools just be able to afford sports because no one came to our games. 20-30,000 when other SEC schools had 80-100,000 at games.

Then yes, the modern era State has had it's share of issues like you pointed out, including that we did not and do not fully embrace NIL.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

Not saying what you said is wrong, just that it is incomplete. Decisions were made poorly, starting with the firing of Allyn McKeen back in the late 40's but it's mostly due to the absolute fact Mississippi State has been the smallest and poorest of all the SEC schools and it's not close.

We had to sell home games to other schools just be able to afford sports because no one came to our games. 20-30,000 when other SEC schools had 80-100,000 at games.

Then yes, the modern era State has had it's share of issues like you pointed out, including that we did not and do not fully embrace NIL.

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It's been a plethora of stupid ass, knucklehead decisions.

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Originally Posted by MBDawg601

Offensively? Dak and??

Defensively, I would be here all day.

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He had good OL every year. WR were plenty talented good enough to win in SEC. RB were plenty good too. - AD, Vic Ballard, Robinson, and plenty of 4star rated talent at RB.