We all know how bad we are so how do we manage out of this?

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

They're playing to get to the next level. Just as Jeffrey Simmons was, Dak Prescott was, Fletcher Cox was, Fred Smoot was, Eric Moulds was, probably Johnnie Cooks was. These players do not have the mindset of fans. They didn't before NIL and they don't after. We just don't have a lot of talent right now. This isn't an NIL issue. We will get markedly worse if we start doing earned NIL payments, and btw I do not hate that idea. However, no one worth a crap will be playing for us. We just need to get better players. It's that simple

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I disagree. Yeah those guys you list had the talent to get to next level but those guys all had heart and loved MSU. Simmons comes back all the time. That is what is missing now. The apathy about everything but how much I'm getting paid and when. They don't care about anything else.

We can pay more NIL but it will not produce any more wins until it is combined with a give a crap and we actually get some talent for our investment. We getting 0 ROI on our NIL investment. If this is a business (we say it is), we need to give these guys a lesson in business.

ASU and Toledo played with heart and passion, we don't. I see a few players that do but it takes all 11 on the field to produce wins.

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Originally Posted by memsu06

I also think it's psychological.

What are the players we have playing for? How many are actually from MS or have pride in the university? The players aren't playing as a team and only care about themselves. Toledo is probably an outlier these days with a veteran team, but I bet they get paid less than our players. They had something to prove and mopped the floor with us. Remember Leach's Pirate speech at Texas Tech? That was emphasizing teamwork because pirate crews were made up of people with various backgrounds that came together for a common goal.

I think we have a bunch of mercenaries just getting paid without having to put in the work to actually do what we're paying them to do.

We need to kick them off the team and NIL should be earned not just given for just being on the team.

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Agreed, great post.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

We are going to have to evaluate better in recruiting. Both HS and portal recruiting. The amount of players we currently have on this roster STARTING, much less playing, that have no business playing at this level is astounding.

And that goes all the way back to Leach. Putting Dave Emerick in charge of recruiting and then following that up with Matt Dudek was an all time dumbass decision. Now, knowing Leach, he probably was not aware of the damage they were doing because he openly listed recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions. But he was the HC so that falls on him all the same.

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Also agree. This mess didn't happen over night and we can't put all blame on Lebby. He inherited what was already sown.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

I disagree. Yeah those guys you list had the talent to get to next level but those guys all had heart and loved MSU. Simmons comes back all the time. That is what is missing now. The apathy about everything but how much I'm getting paid and when. They don't care about anything else.

We can pay more NIL but it will not produce any more wins until it is combined with a give a crap and we actually get some talent for our investment. We getting 0 ROI on our NIL investment. If this is a business (we say it is), we need to give these guys a lesson in business.

ASU and Toledo played with heart and passion, we don't. I see a few players that do but it takes all 11 on the field to produce wins.

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If we try to give them a lesson in business, we will get a lesson in supply and demand. We will have to overpay for even lesser players than we currently have.

I think State is in a weird place in the CFB pecking order. The guys like Odom has at UNLV, -or Candle at Toledo- know they aren't likely to make the pros and are doing it for the love of the game. They might have a player every year or so who leaves for an SEC payday, but by and large? The HS kids they sign/ the SEC castoffs they pick up in the Portal are going to be there until they graduate. You can actually get the kids to ride the bench a year in order to be a backup the next year and then start the last 2.

For us though, we need guys with the ceiling to compete with the biggest names out there. IE, we need kids who have been told they're amazing since 6th grade, who have people in their ears telling them they'll be a day 1-2 draft pick after year 3, who say "That's all the NIL they're offering you? You're worth WAY more than that!". The Portal players we try to pick up are often looking for a payday or PT to impress scouts and don't give a crap about State or the team overall. The HS players we do sign can leave -without penalty, mind you- anytime they feel slighted or offered more NIL.

It's a weird spot to be in, arguably the worst of both words. Neither the "I just love football and want to do what it takes to win" mentality nor the "I'm Chris Jones and I will destroy your offense" level stars since we can't pay them enough to stay if they turn into that.

There is no more "developmental program" in the NIL world. There's only NIL and coaching and we lack the first and won't pay enough for the 2nd

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Mizzou was a 6-7 team at worst. We are way worse than Mizzou was so I don't get the comparison.

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They went 5-7 and 4-8 after they started off hot in SEC those first couple of years

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Originally Posted by parabrave

If you want to know how bad it is listen to Robbie Faulks post game show on his YT channel

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Cliff notes?

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

If we try to give them a lesson in business, we will get a lesson in supply and demand. We will have to overpay for even lesser players than we currently have.

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You mean the lesson we got from Toledo who bought a better talent team than us?

We've got to sign good players and fire bad coaches on staff. You're going to see this roster slashed and a bunch more transfers in. We should be identifying guys this round instead of just taking what's out there. Hopefully the portal is strong.

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Originally Posted by MoreCowbell

Cliff notes?

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Very simple; we suck and are going to suck for a few years

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

You mean the lesson we got from Toledo who bought a better talent team than us?

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Toledo is a MAC school. They develop their 2-3 stars and by the time they are 4th and 5th year seniors then they are so well versed in the system that they can overcome the talent gap they face against a P4 team, especially at the LOS. I mean people act like Toledo never has any talent, hell their QB from last year is starting at Baylor. They get picked over just like every other G5 team. And they don't have the money to go out and get a transfer QB lots of time, but Candle has been there for so long that he knows the type of QB he wants to recruit so they have backups that are waiting in the wings. It's no different than when Dan was here for so long. There was never a worry from him if Russell went down because he had Dak. He knew he'd be ok if Dak went down because he had Nick. Dan recruited HIS type of QB. The system had been in place so long that he knew the type of QB that worked in the system and the type that didn't. He also knew that Hev had a line where we could run the scheme effectively. That's what we're lacking right now. Our line can not run the scheme.