Thanks alot Foxhall

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Originally Posted by State82

Fox was a throwing coach. Parker is a pitching coach.

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Perfectly stated.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

No doubt.

You can talk spin rates and max velo and all kinds of shit. But the best PC's teach mf'ers how to pitch. Figure out what your guy can make the ball do- then work movement and changing speeds. We had guys this year changing speeds on their breaking ball and such. That's pitching.

Now let's get 2-3 quality arms to add to the pen. Develop whats still here and lets roll

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Nailed it. If all it took was velo and spin rate everyone that threw hard or had a great breaking ball would be in the hof. Velo and spin rate is just a way to measure what someone can do, but if you can't command your stuff it's useless!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Nailed it. If all it took was velo and spin rate everyone that threw hard or had a great breaking ball would be in the hof. Velo and spin rate is just a way to measure what someone can do, but if you can't command your stuff it's useless!

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That's the difference between Steve Dalkowski and Sandy Koufax.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

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While I think we all can agree Foxhall wasn't great, some kids just take longer to develop and getting to develop in the minor leagues with less pressure per outing is exactly what some guys need. A lot of guys just need innings, in minor league ball if they like your stuff they will keep running you out there no matter how rough you're outings are and you get to kind of work through your problems on the field. SEC coaches don't have the luxury of letting you learn on the job as you have to produce wins. That is why you see quite a few kids that have struggled in college turn it around, they simply got to continue to get innings. We don't sign a lot of significantly polished kids as most go to LSU/UF etc. we get a lot of kids with high upside that still need to develop. Some kids figure it out pretty quick and others it takes more than 2-3 years yet they have a high end skill set.

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Originally Posted by BB30

While I think we all can agree Foxhall wasn't great, some kids just take longer to develop and getting to develop in the minor leagues with less pressure per outing is exactly what some guys need. A lot of guys just need innings, in minor league ball if they like your stuff they will keep running you out there no matter how rough you're outings are and you get to kind of work through your problems on the field. SEC coaches don't have the luxury of letting you learn on the job as you have to produce wins. That is why you see quite a few kids that have struggled in college turn it around, they simply got to continue to get innings. We don't sign a lot of significantly polished kids as most go to LSU/UF etc. we get a lot of kids with high upside that still need to develop. Some kids figure it out pretty quick and others it takes more than 2-3 years yet they have a high end skill set.

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This is somewhat true but I can tell you this isn't the case with Cade. First off after the draft, he didn't start throwing again for a while. Didn't rush him to the minors, he went to "instruction school early fall. Then he got invited to their pitchers/catchers camp. He is in class A, his first several starts he pitched less than 4 innings, now he is starting to be extending. He has pitched 54 or so innings, era is really good as his strikes to ball. Maybe it's his age as he is still very young (22), but they like his future and aren't rushing anything. College ball is different, it's not nearly as fundamental as what I see. College (pitching) coaches aren't nearly as good as Minor league, growth and maturity has a lot to do with pitchers. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

So seeing all this stuff with these pitchers now dominating do we need to change our pitching approach as it relates to mid week? I mean is it a thing where we tell a guy that's a Freshman, "Hey you got 4 innings today. Whether you give up no hits or 10 hits you are staying in for 4 innings."

I mean we have already seen that midweeks really don't matter. Florida lost 6 midweek games this year, most by 5+ runs and is headed to Omaha. I know we say we don't need to take the MLB pitching approach, but maybe we do need to steal that part of the approach.

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Wait - you really want to suggest that with the total meltdowns we had this year over midweek loses? You'd have ED posters with pitchforks trying ride Lemons out on a rail

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Wait - you really want to suggest that with the total meltdowns we had this year over midweek loses? You'd have ED posters with pitchforks trying ride Lemons out on a rail

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Oh it'd go over like a sack of lead balloons but we'd know who could pitch by the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Oh it'd go over like a sack of lead balloons but we'd know who could pitch by the end of the season.

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I agree completely we need a guy going 3-4 every midweek. This 2 inning crap and then Johnny Wholestaff isnt developing like we should.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I agree completely we need a guy going 3-4 every midweek. This 2 inning crap and then Johnny Wholestaff isnt developing like we should.

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It just sucks to get to the end of the year and be able to count on 2, maybe 3, guys out of the bullpen.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

So seeing all this stuff with these pitchers now dominating do we need to change our pitching approach as it relates to mid week? I mean is it a thing where we tell a guy that's a Freshman, "Hey you got 4 innings today. Whether you give up no hits or 10 hits you are staying in for 4 innings."

I mean we have already seen that midweeks really don't matter. Florida lost 6 midweek games this year, most by 5+ runs and is headed to Omaha. I know we say we don't need to take the MLB pitching approach, but maybe we do need to steal that part of the approach.

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Tough to say midweeks don?t matter when our midweek losses are part of the reason we didn?t get to host.

Yes, I?d rather make it to Omaha over hosting if it comes down to it, but hosting gives you the best path to Omaha.

I?m willing to bet most fans of the teams in Omaha only feel comfortable bringing in 2 or 3 guys out of the pen. A main closer or 2 and a main reliever or 2 are usually the only ones to feel 100% confident in. Everyone else isn?t the first arm out of the pen for a reason

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Originally Posted by DawgFromOxford

Tough to say midweeks don?t matter when our midweek losses are part of the reason we didn?t get to host.

Yes, I?d rather make it to Omaha over hosting if it comes down to it, but hosting gives you the best path to Omaha.

I?m willing to bet most fans of the teams in Omaha only feel comfortable bringing in 2 or 3 guys out of the pen. A main closer or 2 and a main reliever or 2 are usually the only ones to feel 100% confident in. Everyone else isn?t the first arm out of the pen for a reason

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Losing midweeks is also a big reason why Florida didn't host.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

So seeing all this stuff with these pitchers now dominating do we need to change our pitching approach as it relates to mid week? I mean is it a thing where we tell a guy that's a Freshman, "Hey you got 4 innings today. Whether you give up no hits or 10 hits you are staying in for 4 innings."

I mean we have already seen that midweeks really don't matter. Florida lost 6 midweek games this year, most by 5+ runs and is headed to Omaha. I know we say we don't need to take the MLB pitching approach, but maybe we do need to steal that part of the approach.

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Big time disagree. We did that approach with Central Arkansas and it bit us in the ass big time.

The only time we should "experiment" is when we play a SWAC team.

I'd like to see us have an established midweek starter. Ideally it would be a senior who has been around or a freshman with electric stuff that couldn't quite crack the rotation.

Then you manage the bullpen based on the situation. Sometimes we're going to need our big guns to win. Sometimes we'll be up 12-2 in the 7th inning and then we can experiment some.

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Originally Posted by DawgFromOxford

Tough to say midweeks don?t matter when our midweek losses are part of the reason we didn?t get to host.

Yes, I?d rather make it to Omaha over hosting if it comes down to it, but hosting gives you the best path to Omaha.

I?m willing to bet most fans of the teams in Omaha only feel comfortable bringing in 2 or 3 guys out of the pen. A main closer or 2 and a main reliever or 2 are usually the only ones to feel 100% confident in. Everyone else isn?t the first arm out of the pen for a reason

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I agree with all of this post. By the time you get to Omaha you could conceivably win it with four pitchers if they're hot enough.

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Originally Posted by basedog

This is somewhat true but I can tell you this isn't the case with Cade. First off after the draft, he didn't start throwing again for a while. Didn't rush him to the minors, he went to "instruction school early fall. Then he got invited to their pitchers/catchers camp. He is in class A, his first several starts he pitched less than 4 innings, now he is starting to be extending. He has pitched 54 or so innings, era is really good as his strikes to ball. Maybe it's his age as he is still very young (22), but they like his future and aren't rushing anything. College ball is different, it's not nearly as fundamental as what I see. College (pitching) coaches aren't nearly as good as Minor league, growth and maturity has a lot to do with pitchers. Just saying.

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Base has a really good explanation here, might be good to re-read it.