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Since you are lacking reading comprehension...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
WE HAD OUR FIRST CONFIRMED CASE ON THE EXACT SAME DAY AS SOUTH KOREA.
"Some people form their beliefs based on evidence. Others, their evidence on beliefs."
We are not Japan or South Korea, mostly for good and sometimes for bad. We will always look indecisive compared to them in any crisis, which again, will sometimes be good and sometimes be bad. I don't think Trump has done a particularly good or bad job. It's been abundantly clear that our bureaucracies are out of control and working against him a lot, so even if he had tried to weigh in on the day to day decisions and standing procedures that 17ed us, I don't know that it would have made anything better or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
The head of CDC doesn't look like an unqualified appointment. Hard to really hammer Trump for that one. I really doubt Trump was involved in the CDC's decision to do its own test or in screwing it up. I don't think Trump was the one that put the FDA regulations in place that required other parties to have to go through a time consuming approval process. (Probably the biggest thing you can blame Trump for is not just issuing an emergency executive order suspending those regs; that might not have exactly been legal, but provided nobody got injunctive relief against it, it would be a moot issue by the time it was resolved).
We are never going to be set up to respond to a crisis like this with the swift efficiency of smaller, more homogenous and obedient cultures or authoritarian ones. WHen the first CDC test didn't work, that pretty much 17ed us.
Trump will get the blame for the delay in serious action, yes. It probably means Biden will be your next president.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
CHINA was going to make sure other nations took it lightly with LIES, MIS-INFORMATION, and COVER-UP.
[QUOTE=Commercecomet24;1238536]Anyone heard about refinery's shutting down and gas supplies being shut down due to the corona?[/QUOTE
If we see this, how do we know it's not part of an effort to prop up prices in the face of quickly declining consumption figures ? In this country always remember to follow the money first.
What that doctor is missing is that this country was totally unprepared for this pandemic and didn?t begin their response until it was too late to avoid draconian economic consequences. Tell him to do some reading on Korea?s response to this and he?ll quickly change his opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
While I would agree that Trump minimized this at the beginning anyone that would blame him has no common sense.
Louisiana up to 479 cases. They update twice a day. We are up to 80.
I'm not sure why anyone would think Trump would know how to handle a global pandemic crisis. He's got no qualifications for it. It's not really his fault he's not prepared but he is the president so here we are.
You are so uniformed on this subject it would be best if you just kept quiet and listenedQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
We haven't had a President in my memory that would know how to handle a global pandemic crisis. Experience in how to handle that is not generally conducive to making a presidential run. I'd rather have Regan, Bush I, or Clinton in charge, but I'm not sure they'd make much of a difference. Based on Obama's performance, I'd prefer Trump. I'd be indifferent between Bush II and Trump. But I don't think any of them would move the needle a ton. The 17ups were mainly at the CDC. If the testing hadn't been screwed up, then maybe we'd see a difference in performance based on who is president. But the testing screwups pretty much limit the effectiveness of what we any President could legally do, and I don't think any president would be in the weeds enough at the CDC to make a difference on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by chef dixon
Pretty grim way to paint it with the this stat right above where you got that...Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
https://i.postimg.cc/BbySQRjD/67-DE9...27-C6-DD47.jpg
I question this doctor if his argument is a swab up the nose "could've killed people".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
The mild/critical condition isn't accurate. For example, it says Iran has 0 critical cases yet 150 people died there yesterday. I imagine not everywhere is reporting this data and if they don't get the data for a particular case, it goes into the mild bucket.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Yeah, I'd take the guy that cut the pandemic response team that Obama put into place over obama who had experience with the Ebola and MERS outbreaks elsewhere in the world under his administration, saw the threat, and put a team together to have logistics plans in place and ready to mobilize in these exact type scenarios. But maybe that's just my bias showing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
I wish you would take your own advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadheaddawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Guess you think case number is accurate though.
I'll take the under (way under) on 10% death rate when this is over.
Me too, especially when you consider the asymptomatic/mild cases that aren't being detected. But it's still the best data we have at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
But just keep in mind, SARS had a 10% death rate, MERS > 30%. COVID is in the same family.
Also in the same family as a common cold. This is bad, but we have some decent outer bounds on the potential death rate absent improved treatments and absent a mutation or some increased risk present outside of Asia.Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
It's probably going to be somewhere between .5% to 1.2% with current treatment, and then maybe as high as 3.5% if hospitals are overwhelmed and the experiences of the hardest hit countries become typical. Pretty much all of those rates are awful with how contagious this is, with 3.5% being maybe the biggest catastrophe in modern history? But unless we find out obesity is a death knell when combined with COVID-19, I am optimistic we will end up around that 1% number or less (which is still awful and will be a generation defining event unlike anything since probably WWII, or maybe Vietnam depending on how you look at it).
COVID is also in the same family as some common colds. Most viral respiratory panels test for 3-4 different coronavirus strains.Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Pennsylvania, California, and now NY governors have issued executive orders for lockdowns. Looks like instead of a national lockdown, it's just going to go state by state.
In the states with lockdowns, what is considered essential business for exclusions?Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Ignoring the false talking point about getting rid of the pandemic response capabilities, if you want to take into account Obama's experience with the Swine Flu and assumign he'd learn, that's probably a good argument. I was talking more about facing a new, unprecedented situation. Based on their demonstrated competence at things like rolling out Obamacare, I wouldn't want them on their first crack at a pandemic with one like this but giving them the benefit of what utlimatley woudl look like a dry run, they hopefully would be better. Again, probably wouldn't make a huge difference as a lot of the responsibility lies with non-political appointees, but maybe marginally better.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
I understand that. But it's called SARS-CoV-2 for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
Pennsylvania's list: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume....html#documentQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
The reason is not that its a variant of the previous SARS that had 10% mortalityQuote:
Originally Posted by hacker
But the thing is it's not a false narrative (even Fauci has said he wishes the team was in place), he learned, he put a team in place, he left that for every successive president, I'm sure trump was briefed on pandemic responses in the transition just like happens with every transition, and he decided it wasn't a real threat and worth the $$, so he cut it because somehow we've been at a point where "no government spending and tax cuts" constitutes a valid political position and receives praise. It shows no critical thinking at all because folks just wanna cut shit without knowing what that actually entails. I hope this ordeal wakes people up that parrot those lines as their politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
The CDC handles studying and researching the virus itself, treatments and vaccines, not the logistics of ramping up emergency testing, emergency hospitals, supply chains for basic healthcare needs like masks and gloves, etc. we are doing it on the fly now and with a hodgepodge of plans of various effectiveness in different states that's going to be a problem in the short term (long term when things are stabilized, more localized plans make sense, but we are months from that). Fema handles natural disasters. The logistics handling a hurricane or earthquake aftermath ain't like handling a pandemic. So kindly stop peddling you "false narrative" false narrative about there being no loss of capabilities by cutting the team in charge of planning for and ensuring our capabilities. Of course they wouldn't have "prevented" anything. They would probably make some mistakes too, but it's better than what we have now where all we've done is make mistakes.
"From a taxonomic perspective, SARS-CoV-2 is classified as a strain of the species severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus (SARSr-CoV)."Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
They're more like siblings though, you're technically right
[QUOTE=Churchill;1238586]People need to stop believing that big oil is evil. The largest oil operators in the US are doing all they can right now to continue to produce and supply at a rate before this pandemic. It has taken over the industry. There are meetings nonstop all day to ensure that workers are kept healthy and production continues. Workers have volunteered to stay offshore for over a month at a time (for some) to eliminate new people flying to facilities. All this while losing money in the current oil price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
ETA: Not the workers losing money. They getting taken care of.
[QUOTE=DownwardDawg;1238626]Im with ya! I have a number of friend and family that work in various positions in the oil industry, on shore and offshore. They are all hard working, dedicated people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
He reorganized. That's not the same thing as cutting. The NSC isn't supposed to house all of your government response capabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
As with many things the President is prone to get way too much credit or blame for things simply because he's the guy in front of the microphone.
[QUOTE=DownwardDawg;1238626]I was born into a family of independent business people. I am a capitalist and will die a capitalist. I've encouraged my children to do the same. I am not saying "big oil is evil" I am saying big oil is capitalistic. Capitalism is rough and tumble and has to deal with realities to be successful. During a time of historic reductions in consumption of gasoline I would have no problem AT ALL with cutting back production. Why wouldn't they ? I just don't think that throwing "oh my God our refineries are closing" into the coronavirus spiraling panic is a good thing right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
You know, when I think about this long term I really don't see a way out of this. covid will never be eradicated, it's like the flu in that regard. So every year when the conditions are right it'll crop back up. And -just like with the flu- it'll keep mutating and vaccines won't be 100% effective.
It also appears that recovering from Covid doesn't give you any immunity to it, let alone future strains, and we know from SARS studies that antibodies for that wore off in about 3 years so it's likely to be true for this too.
So what we have is a population that can't build up true immunities, vaccines that can't stay ahead of the mutations, a virus that can't be removed from the world, that takes 1-2 weeks before symptoms appear (compared to 1-3 days for the flu), and is extremely deadly.
I think in 20 years we'll regard this outbreak as a changing point in humanity, like 9/11, or the end of WW2 setting up the cold war. Covid will be regarded like cancer, or car crashes; a deadly thing that could take anyone and we just have to live with it. As we expect old people might get cancer we will expect old people to be hospitalized by covid. It's the new reality
Except I'm not the one that is uniformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
Its to early to know, but there is no reason to believe you can be reinfected with COVID-19. Right now I wouldn't expect its overall life course to be much different than SARS.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
While viruses are notorious for mutating (hence the situation we're in now) the flu's ability to mutate is truly unique to the family of virus it belongs to, which makes comparing any non-flu virus to the flu very difficult. The mechanisms that it has to mutate makes rapidly mutating more of a rule of thumb for the flu rather than an exceptional outlying event (like COVID). So a vaccine will hopefully, and should be, much more effective for COVID than the seasonal flu.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
With regards to antibodies, they are sort of like muscles. If you don't use them you lose them (which is why we have vaccines). According to my google search, there hasn't been a known transmission of SARS since 2004, so it only makes sense that we lose anti-SARS antibodies since the virus isn't moving through the population any longer. If this virus sticks around and doesn't significantly mutate we should be able to continue to mount antibody responses against it and eventually have more of a herd immunity against it. What gives me encouragement, without having done any research on the subject, is that SARS came and went without a vaccine or extreme measures (that I'm aware of). It didn't mutate again, which should definitely be encouraging with regards to this coronavirus, but it also seemingly wasn't as infectious.
For anyone interested, I linked a 3 minute Youtube video below explaining what makes the flu so erratic. What makes coronavirus different is it has positive RNA, which means its reliant on the host cell's enzymes to reproduce its genome. Unlike the flu's polymerase, host cell polymerase has a ton of "spellchecks" to ensure correct replication. Because whereas mutations are advantageous for virus, mutations in non-virus genomes are either silent or bad (cell death/cancer). Very, very rarely advantageous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYIUFlsEJ8
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Deaths have almost doubled from ~2100 to ~4000 in 4 days