Favorite to land Tommy Stevens

Coach 34,

This is all true about Nick and Les and everyone else, but Nick went 6-6 in his first year at Alabama. Kirby Smart went 7-5 in his first year at Georgia. Chip Kelly went 3-9 in his first year at UCLA. I chose these schools because they recruit well and the coaches were walking into a situation where you would think that the records would be better in year one due to talent around them. Nick and Kirby obviously improved and I would be shocked if Chip Kelly didn't turn it completely around at UCLA. Mike Leach sucks until he gets his qb into his system. So does Gus at Auburn. It may be a coaching flaw, but it does not mean that we are going to suck long term with Joe as head coach. It means he needs his guys in there. Recruiting will determine whether that happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

Mike Leach sucks until he gets his qb into his system. So does Gus at Auburn. It may be a coaching flaw, but it does not mean that we are going to suck long term with Joe as head coach. It means he needs his guys in there. Recruiting will determine whether that happens.

---

I agree with this. Yes, the "great" coaches can adjust what they do and win with any type of good players. But there is something between that and sucking and that might just be what we have in Joe. Maybe he is a one trick pony that can only win with his specific style. Mike Leach would be a great example. Dan Mullen made Relf into a winner. Leach wouldn't win 4 games with Relf. Does that mean Leach sucks? Of course not.

I've got questions about Joe, but since you are able to recruit in college football I'm willing to let him get some players in and see if we can get it going. He has had good offenses everywhere else he's been. Since we aren't going to fire him anytime soon the alternative is 3 years of pessimistic self loathing waiting for him to fail, which is just not something I'm interested in doing. This is all just about entertainment, after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach007

No.. but you are being dishonest. You are not applying the same rules from you to JoMo. JoMo has a COY on his wall.... Several.

1- His Offense won the big 10.

2- Set records on the way... Nittany Lions set school records for total offense (6,056 yards) and passing yards (3,650), and tied the mark for points scored (526).

3- He won the Big East at 2010.

4- He was named SI No. 1 rising assistant in college football in 2014.... and by Yahoo

5- Overall 46?18 as a head coach.

6- Offensive Coordinator of the Year 2016

7- 2013 Patriot League Coach of the Year
8- 2013 AFCA Regional Co-Coach of the Year and a finalist for both the Eddie Robinson Award as the NCAA FCS national Coach of the Year and the Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year Award.

9- nominated for the Frank Broyles Award

10- won a Mid-American Conference championship

11-... in fact he won conference championships at his last four coaching stops, including Penn State (2016), Fordham (2014), Connecticut (2010) and Akron (2005).

12- Per MSU.... For the second time in his career, Moorhead was recognized as the National Offensive Coordinator of the Year




So is that successful?

---

Don't you know that none of that matters at little ol Mis-sippi 'tate? If we aren't 3 yards and a cloud of dust we aren't playing football the Mis-sippi 'tate way, which is the key to our long standing success.

Is Tommy Stevens any good?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Is Tommy Stevens any good?

---

He may not be any good but he's better than what we have for our current system or our head coach would not be going after him. That's all that matters at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Is Tommy Stevens any good?

---

Yes. Can run, throw accurately, and run routes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach007

Yes. Can run, throw accurately, and run routes.

---

Maybe we want him as a receiver*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Randolph Dupree

Maybe we want him as a receiver*

---

We absolutely could use him as a receiver. He'd be one of our best on his first day.

However, he likely would not be too happy losing the QB job after transferring so who knows what his mentality and production would be like here as a WR. Hopefully he'd be a team player and produce wherever he played. He was and did at Penn State.

I want him at MSU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MedDawg

We absolutely could use him as a receiver. He'd be one of our best on his first day.

However, he likely would not be too happy losing the QB job after transferring so who knows what his mentality and production would be like here as a WR. Hopefully he'd be a team player and produce wherever he played. He was and did at Penn State.

I want him at MSU.

---

Again, he's leaving penn st bc they won't name him starter. He isn't coming with less than a deal in place to be the starter at qb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Again, he's leaving penn st bc they won't name him starter. He isn't coming with less than a deal in place to be the starter at qb

---

Correct. If we go after him and don't land him, it WILL be due to him not given assurances. He knows there are places that can give him the starting job. He knows it's his last chance to show the NFL what he can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MedDawg

Was 2018 really that much worse than 2017? We finished one game worse, but the schedule was tougher in 2018 than 2017.

To use an objective measurement, Sagarin had State's 2018 team finish #8 with a #11 SOS. Sagarin had State's 2017 team finish #17 with a #46 SOS.

---

On the offensive side of the ball, yes. In 2017, we could manufacture scoring against weak to good defenses but couldn't move the ball on elite defenses b/c of a lack of passing attack.

In 2018, we could destroy weak defenses, score pretty well against mediocre defenses, and couldn't move the ball on good or elite defenses. It made it much more frustrating b/c we just needed minimal competence on offense to beat UK and UF.

And I think the computer ratings are somewhat fool's gold for us this year. We were just a weird team as far as being able to destroy weaker teams and look completely lost against good teams. We were pretty good overall and could have beaten the vast majority of the teams in the country, but we would look like dog shit against good defenses. Not sure how many defenses would make us look awful.
Just the top 10? Or Top 15? I think certainly by the time we get to a top 20ish defense our offense was ok, at least when paired with our defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach007

Correct. If we go after him and don't land him, it WILL be due to him not given assurances. He knows there are places that can give him the starting job. He knows it's his last chance to show the NFL what he can do.

---

Nothing at Qb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

I agree with this. Yes, the "great" coaches can adjust what they do and win with any type of good players. But there is something between that and sucking and that might just be what we have in Joe. Maybe he is a one trick pony that can only win with his specific style. Mike Leach would be a great example. Dan Mullen made Relf into a winner. Leach wouldn't win 4 games with Relf. Does that mean Leach sucks? Of course not.

I've got questions about Joe, but since you are able to recruit in college football I'm willing to let him get some players in and see if we can get it going. He has had good offenses everywhere else he's been. Since we aren't going to fire him anytime soon the alternative is 3 years of pessimistic self loathing waiting for him to fail, which is just not something I'm interested in doing. This is all just about entertainment, after all.

---

Another thing to remember is the number of great coaches is extremely small. Gus is a good offensive guy and couldn't make it work with an NFL prospect at QB in Stidham, b/c the Qb was a pocket passer. Mullen is a good offensive guy and couldn't make it work with Russell (although in fairness with an SEC quality receiver corp he might could have done better) and even with leake, I'm not sure what that NC year looks like without Tebow to come in for short yardage and Red Zone opportunities. And the great coaches that are out there, they pretty quickly become such big names and recruit so well that they hardly need to do the hard coaching of making real changes to adapt to players that don't fit their system.

With Moorhead, I think we have an analytical guy that if you give him an off season, can really come up with some good stuff. I think with his players in place, he's probably a really good play caller. At least based off this year, which is not necessarily a fair comparison as he was handling a lot of additional duties for the first time since Fordham, he may not be good at in game adjustments.

But all that together just means if he can get his players, he's probably going to be good for us. May not get us past Bama and/or UGA type programs, but that's always going to be a long shot, and if we do get that guy, he's going to get offered money that will make him top 5 paid head coach in college.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarius

Coach 34,

This is all true about Nick and Les and everyone else, but Nick went 6-6 in his first year at Alabama. Kirby Smart went 7-5 in his first year at Georgia. Chip Kelly went 3-9 in his first year at UCLA. I chose these schools because they recruit well and the coaches were walking into a situation where you would think that the records would be better in year one due to talent around them. Nick and Kirby obviously improved and I would be shocked if Chip Kelly didn't turn it completely around at UCLA. Mike Leach sucks until he gets his qb into his system. So does Gus at Auburn. It may be a coaching flaw, but it does not mean that we are going to suck long term with Joe as head coach. It means he needs his guys in there. Recruiting will determine whether that happens.

---

One of the better posts in regards to JoMo that I have seen on the board. Kudos I 100% agree Kirby, Nick, Herman, etc. Have walked into better situations then we presented based on recruiting and talent and still struggled their first season. I am not ready to say he is a bad coach yet. I think we improve under him recruiting and passing. Will that take us to the next level remains to be seen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Again, he's leaving penn st bc they won't name him starter. He isn't coming with less than a deal in place to be the starter at qb

---

I don't think you can make him that promise. If he comes in and KT or somebody else clearly outplays him in practice, and Moorhead has already promised Stevens that he will be the starter, I don't think that will sit too well with the rest of the team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NCDawg

I don't think you can make him that promise. If he comes in and KT or somebody else clearly outplays him in practice, and Moorhead has already promised Stevens that he will be the starter, I don't think that will sit too well with the rest of the team.

---

If Joe is clearly looking at Stevens to come in I think it's pretty safe to assume Key ain't gonna beat him out of the job. Key has gone through two springs in this system if he had it down Tommy Stevens name would never have popped up on the radar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NCDawg

I don't think you can make him that promise. If he comes in and KT or somebody else clearly outplays him in practice, and Moorhead has already promised Stevens that he will be the starter, I don't think that will sit too well with the rest of the team.

---

Nobody is going to promise he's going to be the starter. They are going to tell him he will be the best QB the moment he steps on campus and if he does what he's supposed to do, he'll be the starter. If he ends up not being the starter, he will be pissed, but there's nothing you can do about that if KT beats him out. Every player knows or should know that they can always be beat out.

I assume that especially with a transfer, there's no benefit to lying about their likely place on the depth chart and that Moorhead won't tell him he's likely to be the starter if he thinks it's anywhere near a coin toss as to who will be better.

Moorhead told Fitz to clear space for the heisman trophy so who knows what he's told Stevens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg61

Moorhead told Fitz to clear space for the heisman trophy so who knows what he's told Stevens.

---

Yeah, too bad he didn't know Fitz couldn't read a defense or complete a pass over ten yards about a 3rd of the time. Again, what's on that bench looks bad on Mullen and his supernatural QB whispering bullshit. Mullen stopped coaching long before he went to Florida. Dak was his last effort at molding a QB. He was ready to go after Dak. It's not Fitz's fault either. Dan ****ed over this team in more ways than one. I also guarantee you Dan spent more time coaching Franks at FL in 6 months than he did Fitz for two years. He was back to giving a shit again (see Relf, Chris 2009-10).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Yeah, too bad he didn't know Fitz couldn't read a defense or complete a pass over ten yards about a 3rd of the time.

---

That makes it worse then. Why even mention Heisman to him then if he didn't know what Fitz could or couldn't do?