2021 MSU Football Recruiting Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Yeah. 247 struggles with JUCO guys because they’re hard to compare to a HS schooler due to age and they get far less hype.

That being said, they’re our bread and butter.

I get why they’re underrated but it is what it is. It’s also why we have the capacity to some years put a top 10 type roster on the field when our recruiting rankings say otherwise.

Our connections with the JUCO coaches allows us to evaluate these players better and quicker than other programs.

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They should just rate JUCO guys separately which I think they essentially do. But they just need to do a better job of rating them. They just don't pay attention to it because most football programs don't recruit as many as we do.

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Originally Posted by ZedFedder

I don’t know if he had commitable offers from the other schools, but the fact they were interested says a lot. I won’t be surprised if this turns into a Montez Sweat situation where we got on a really good player early. Nobody knew this until he said so after he signed, but Sweat had offers from LSU and Florida. He didn’t do media so nobody knew and we got a first rounder as a three star.

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Sweat was a P5 transfer. People knew he was good. He was one of the top Jucos in the country.

JJ Jones put out he Top 5 a little while ago and we are in it. We have a shot at him? Claims offers from Georgia, Tennessee, SC, and UNC.

Seems like 2022 and some good front seven defensive prospects to go along with the 2021 secondary prospects.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

JJ Jones put out he Top 5 a little while ago and we are in it. We have a shot at him? Claims offers from Georgia, Tennessee, SC, and UNC.

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Not likely. But a long way to go.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Not likely. But a long way to go.

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I just love how many quality WRs we're in on.

Makes me think that once we show the passing game on the field, we could see a 5 star WR sign with MSU within the next 3 years

Y'all still worried about this staff's ability to recruit?? LOL

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Y'all still worried about this staff's ability to recruit?? LOL

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Don't go there.

We all talked about how great Moorhead's recruiting was as well & there wasn't a penny's worth a difference between Joe's recruiting Mullen's.

Wait until the final ratings come out before deciding how good of recruiters this staff is, although that will be tough this year with the lack of ratings.

I am encouraged that their recruiting does seem to be far better than some feared due to the recruiting rankings at Wazzou

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Don't go there.

We all talked about how great Moorhead's recruiting was as well & there wasn't a penny's worth a difference between Joe's recruiting Mullen's.

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I still believe Moorhead was a great recruiter. Last year was one of the worst classes for top end talent in Mississippi - which is our bread and butter - and he still ranked near the top of where Mullen did even in better years. Further, he did that with a disillusioned fan base, which is no help.

The guy was not ready to be a SEC head coach, but he was a better recruiter than Mullen.

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Originally Posted by 1bigdawg

I still believe Moorhead was a great recruiter. Last year was one of the worst classes for top end talent in Mississippi - which is our bread and butter - and he still ranked near the top of where Mullen did even in better years. Further, he did that with a disillusioned fan base, which is no help.

The guy was not ready to be a SEC head coach, but he was a better recruiter than Mullen.

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You could also argue that the previous year was the best recruiting class the state of Mississippi ever had, and he managed to let most of the big fish go out of state with OM under probation. There's no doubt Joe tried harder than Mullen and his staff. They put way more effort into it. But other than landing a few prospects that Mullen wouldn't have, I don't think it made that much of a difference. We're always going to recruit in the 20-30 range. I expect the same with Leach unless we just start taking the West by storm, which isn't impossible I guess

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Originally Posted by 1bigdawg

I still believe Moorhead was a great recruiter. Last year was one of the worst classes for top end talent in Mississippi - which is our bread and butter - and he still ranked near the top of where Mullen did even in better years. Further, he did that with a disillusioned fan base, which is no help.

The guy was not ready to be a SEC head coach, but he was a better recruiter than Mullen.

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Maybe but that’s based way more on your opinion vs facts

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

You could also argue that the previous year was the best recruiting class the state of Mississippi ever had, and he managed to let most of the big fish go out of state with OM under probation. There's no doubt Joe tried harder than Mullen and his staff. They put way more effort into it. But other than landing a few prospects that Mullen wouldn't have, I don't think it made that much of a difference. We're always going to recruit in the 20-30 range.

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I’m not willing to concede always.

Moorhead wasn't a great recruiter. He just worked harder and was more involved than Mullen. He was more likable as well (recruiting wise).

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Don't go there.

We all talked about how great Moorhead's recruiting was as well & there wasn't a penny's worth a difference between Joe's recruiting Mullen's.

Wait until the final ratings come out before deciding how good of recruiters this staff is, although that will be tough this year with the lack of ratings.

I am encouraged that their recruiting does seem to be far better than some feared due to the recruiting rankings at Wazzou

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I disagree - there was a lot angst about "Leach doesn't care about recruiting" and "these guys haven't recruited in the SEC" etc.

Everything we have seen so far blows those theories out of the water. So now the default is "we won't know until the ranking come out". This isn't about rankings - it's about is this staff out there hitting it hard, pulling in obvious talent, filling our needs, and getting SEC caliber players or guys they feel will develop. Everything they are showing checks all the boxes. You are correct that we won't know the class results - but to me they are showing that they are at least as competent as the last two staffs about how they approach the job.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I disagree - there was a lot angst about "Leach doesn't care about recruiting" and "these guys haven't recruited in the SEC" etc.

Everything we have seen so far blows those theories out of the water. So now the default is "we won't know until the ranking come out". This isn't about rankings - it's about is this staff out there hitting it hard, pulling in obvious talent, filling our needs, and getting SEC caliber players or guys they feel will develop. Everything they are showing checks all the boxes. You are correct that we won't know the class results - but to me they are showing that they are at least as competent as the last two staffs about how they approach the job.

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I agree with this. I misinterpreted your original post

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I agree with this. I misinterpreted your original post

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Well, I didn't exactly provide any context.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Moorhead wasn't a great recruiter. He just worked harder and was more involved than Mullen. He was more likable as well (recruiting wise).

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I'll take trying and failing over not trying and leaving gaping holes in our roster.

You can’t judge Moorhead on that loaded 18 class. Those relationships start being built with many of those elite guys when they are 9th and 10th graders. He had a year.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Maybe but that’s based way more on your opinion vs facts

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Na. Moorhead's 3 classes are ranked higher than Mullen's first 3 classes.

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Originally Posted by msu15

Na. Moorhead's 3 classes are ranked higher than Mullen's first 3 classes.

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Are you seriously comparing what Mullen had to sell in his first three years vs what Moorhead had to sell?

Additionally, the recruiting sites rate far more players now which leads to many of those "under the Radar" types now being rated as high 3 stars, which leads to a boost in the rankings.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

You could also argue that the previous year was the best recruiting class the state of Mississippi ever had, and he managed to let most of the big fish go out of state with OM under probation. There's no doubt Joe tried harder than Mullen and his staff. They put way more effort into it. But other than landing a few prospects that Mullen wouldn't have, I don't think it made that much of a difference. We're always going to recruit in the 20-30 range. I expect the same with Leach unless we just start taking the West by storm, which isn't impossible I guess

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It's really hard to figure since Mullen would have been on some different recruits. Mullen definitely doesn't sign Shrader, Marks, probably not Cross and several others that Joe was on, so that could mean that Mullen could have signed top 30ish, or in the best case, around the same, or....he could have shit the bed in the rankings. Joe is more likable to kids so he was a better recruiter of the more sought after prospects than Mullen. Mullen's claim to fame is finding players that will optimize his system, regardless of rating.

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Originally Posted by msu15

Na. Moorhead's 3 classes are ranked higher than Mullen's first 3 classes.

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That first one was Mullen's.

Nussmier just committed to LSU.

He's a 91 on 247 and Robertson is a 93.

Let's see how quickly 247 bumps him above Robertson.

I'm guessing less than a week and keep in mind that there is no actual football to base that off of.

After another 4 star commitment today, Tennessee now has the #1 recruiting class in the SEC.

Doesn't add up one bit. A head coach that can barely speak English is now selling himself & the program better than anyone else?

I realize Tennessee has recruited fairly well, even when bad, but this is an abnormality. Obviously something is going on.

Will be totally different story for them once these kids are allowed to visit.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

After another 4 star commitment today, Tennessee now has the #1 recruiting class in the SEC.

Doesn't add up one bit. A head coach that can barely speak English is now selling himself & the program better than anyone else?

I realize Tennessee has recruited fairly well, even when bad, but this is an abnormality. Obviously something is going on.

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They got tired.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Nussmier just committed to LSU.

He's a 91 on 247 and Robertson is a 93.

Let's see how quickly 247 bumps him above Robertson.

I'm guessing less than a week and keep in mind that there is no actual football to base that off of.

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Nussmier will end up 95-97 just on general principle.

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Originally Posted by Bothrops

Nussmier will end up 95-97 just on general principle.

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What do you mean?

Nuss is a 95 composite but only a 91 by 247. Robertson is a 93 by 247

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

What do you mean?

Nuss is a 95 composite but only a 91 by 247. Robertson is a 93 by 247

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Because he's committed to LSU.

We just got a commitment from a punter, Marshall Nichols.

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Originally Posted by ZedFedder

We just got a commitment from a punter, Marshall Nichols.

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PWO

Do you guys think Kiffin is all in at Ole Miss?

I have to admit, I & I am guessing most Ole Miss fans expected him to be far more "aggre$$ive" on the recruiting trail to this point than he has been?

I think most Ole Miss fans thought they were getting Freeze 2.0 after the way Kiffin recruited at Tennessee, but thus far he hasn't shown that level of aggre$$iveness.

Just curious why you think that is?

Is it because they are still in the repeat violator window?

Is Lane trying to stay clean & get out of Oxford as quickly as possible?

Or is their lack of NFL draft success & winning just causing a lack of interest?

I have to admit that I'm kind of paying attention for when they are going to go "all in" but I haven't seen it yet.

Any thoughts here?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Do you guys think Kiffin is all in at Ole Miss?

I have to admit, I & I am guessing most Ole Miss fans expected him to be far more "aggre$$ive" on the recruiting trail to this point than he has been?

I think most Ole Miss fans thought they were getting Freeze 2.0 after the way Kiffin recruited at Tennessee, but thus far he hasn't shown that level of aggre$$iveness.

Just curious why you think that is?

Is it because they are still in the repeat violator window?

Is Lane trying to stay clean & get out of Oxford as quickly as possible?

Or is their lack of NFL draft success & winning just causing a lack of interest?

I have to admit that I'm kind of paying attention for when they are going to go "all in" but I haven't seen it yet.

Any thoughts here?

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I think Kiffin plans on bolting as soon as a big job in Cali or Florida opens up. I think he gets them back to a bowl game, and then gets tf out of dodge

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

I think Kiffin plans on bolting as soon as a big job in Cali or Florida opens up. I think he gets them back to a bowl game, and then gets tf out of dodge

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His initial actions at Ole Miss lead me to believe the same.

The thing that made Freeze so aggressive at Ole Miss IMO is that he was all in because OM was his dream job & he really was willing to sacrifice his career to win there because he completely owed OM for giving him a career in the first place.

It's just interesting. I expected a different Kiffin than what we've seen so far.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

His initial actions at Ole Miss lead me to believe the same.

The thing that made Freeze so aggressive at Ole Miss IMO is that he was all in because OM was his dream job & he really was willing to sacrifice his career to win there because he completely owed OM for giving him a career in the first place.

It's just interesting. I expected a different Kiffin than what we've seen so far.

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Yeah, they thought they were getting Freeze 2.0, but Kiffin has no loyalty to Mississippi and isn't a fake preacher, so they're in for a rude awakening. He'll recruit decently and may win a little, but ultimately, this is a transition job for him.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Do you guys think Kiffin is all in at Ole Miss?

I have to admit, I & I am guessing most Ole Miss fans expected him to be far more "aggre$$ive" on the recruiting trail to this point than he has been?

I think most Ole Miss fans thought they were getting Freeze 2.0 after the way Kiffin recruited at Tennessee, but thus far he hasn't shown that level of aggre$$iveness.

Just curious why you think that is?

Is it because they are still in the repeat violator window?

Is Lane trying to stay clean & get out of Oxford as quickly as possible?

Or is their lack of NFL draft success & winning just causing a lack of interest?

I have to admit that I'm kind of paying attention for when they are going to go "all in" but I haven't seen it yet.

Any thoughts here?

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No Ed Orgeron recruiting for him.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No Ed Orgeron recruiting for him.

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This may be completely true. Lane did recruit at Bama though & they are as bad as anyone on the recruiting trail.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

That first one was Mullen's.

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And Mullen's first one was Croom's. If you take the first class out of it the scale tips even more to Joe.

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Originally Posted by msu15

And Mullen's first one was Croom's. If you take the first class out of it the scale tips even more to Joe.

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Not nearly as much as if effects a coach with only a couple classes. Moorhead was never a great recruiter. Dan straight sucked at it. Their recruiting results were similar.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This may be completely true. Lane did recruit at Bama though & they are as bad as anyone on the recruiting trail.

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I wonder how much he really recruited at Alabama though? It's not like there was a noticeable difference in their recruiting good or bad when he was there. I would imagine that he mainly focused on QB recruiting when he was there.