Where are the insiders

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Originally Posted by BB30

Have you seen the video of Daniel Shaver(white guy) getting shot in a hotel? Point is you have to look at each situation individually. It isn't the same police officer killing these people or not. You're acting like because in this one instance the police didn't shoot that it is an indictment on every officer of being racist when a black man is killed half way across the country in another precinct.

We can pick and choose videos all day and we would both be able to find claims to back each point of view.

What do you make of the stats though? 13% of the population committing some 50+% of all violent crime. 15 unarmed black men killed, some justified, some not. We have over 800 thousand law enforcement officers in this country. If cops were out hunting people don't you think the numbers would bare that? One miscalculation is too many, I understand that. Is there still plenty of room for improvement, absolutely. Do I have an issue with our football players peacefully protesting? No, not in the least bit. I just wish some people would actually look at the numbers and start to have a discussion centered around the numbers and where/how we can improve. Not the "our system is broken and we need a whole new system".

I think there is a much better argument to be made for inequality once cases hit the court systems. Cops for the most part do their job pretty well for what is being asked of them. It is the Lawyers, DAs etc. that IMO are doing the most harm. Non violent crime jail sentences etc. are a huge drain on tax payer dollars. I do believe a lot of this is more in line with wealth inequality as poor white defendants often find themselves in the same situations while wealthy people tend to find ways out of non violent offenses without a criminal record.

And you know the irony of that is Biden co signed a bill in 94 "the tough on crime" bill and has always up until the last two or three years been in favor of tougher punishment. Kamala Harris denied plenty of innocent men in jail a chance at having new DNA testing done that could have cleared them of any wrong doing when she was a DA. So to act as though Biden and Harris will be all for prison reform is a joke. If/when they get elected they are going to go right back to doing what they did. It is all lip service.

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I'm not "acting" in a way other than to post a video and ask what the difference was between someone who was "perceived" to have a gun and was shot 7 times in the back versus someone who yelled that he was going to "****ing" kill the cop? The answer is that it boils down to prejudice and bias.

I've highlighted, in your diatribe, the point for this thread and board. There are a lot of posters on this board who dogged our players for sitting out a practice. People (not going to call them fans) lost their minds because how dare the players think they were "entitled" to have an opinion!

To reiterate the stats you posted: "13% of the population committing some 50+% of all violent crime". Now imagine how a person that has the same skin complexion of that 13% getting pulled over and presumed to be guilty before they even have the chance to open their mouth. Unless you do, then how can you accurately say how someone should feel? I, personally, don't fall into that category - so what exactly is wrong with trying to listen and understand someone else's point of view?

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

Anyone care to share their thoughts on why this guy didn't get 7 rounds pumped into his back when he returned to his truck? Please don't miss the part where he tells the cop that he as going to ****ing kill him!

Great patience the officer showed. I appreciate all they do to keep us safe!

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I want your opinion on two scenarios just so I know where you stand:

Scenario one: black officer/white subject - White subject Is a known drug dealer. Black Officer passes him in a neighborhood and pulls him over for traffic violation and white subject bails out and runs. Officer gives chase. Deploys a taser and misses. Ends up shooting and killing the white subject because (according to the officer) the subject pointed a gun at him. The subject is found with a stolen firearm on him and drugs.

Scenario two: white officer/black subject - subject is pulled over for traffic citation and bails out (for unknown reasons). The white officer gives chase in his patrol car. At some point the officer exits his car and chases on foot. Upon returning to his patrol car he sees the black subject in his patrol car attempting to drive it away. He shoots and kills the black subject while sitting in the drivers seat.

To you, which one of these scenarios represent systemic racism?

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

I'm not "acting" in a way other than to post a video and ask what the difference was between someone who was "perceived" to have a gun and was shot 7 times in the back versus someone who yelled that he was going to "****ing" kill the cop? The answer is that it boils down to prejudice and bias.

I've highlighted, in your diatribe, the point for this thread and board. There are a lot of posters on this board who dogged our players for sitting out a practice. People (not going to call them fans) lost their minds because how dare the players think they were "entitled" to have an opinion!

To reiterate the stats you posted: "13% of the population committing some 50+% of all violent crime". Now imagine how a person that has the same skin complexion of that 13% getting pulled over and presumed to be guilty before they even have the chance to open their mouth. Unless you do, then how can you accurately say how someone should feel? I, personally, don't fall into that category - so what exactly is wrong with trying to listen and understand someone else's point of view?

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Ah, but you did not post an entire video of the situation only a snippet. We did not see the events as they unfolded, so we have no context in which to draw a "VALID" conclusion. But you know that! Without seeing the entire footage, your snippet is BIASED as your are leading the viewer draw the conclusion you want them to have. It would be like asking you, hey GC, when did you stop beating your wife? Guilt is already presumed, your defense would only dig a deeper hole for you.

This is why the majority hate the mainstream media these days, as this is their standard mode of operation. They have done this type of misdirection/obfuscation for so long, you are now engaging in their same tactics.

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Originally Posted by Dawgology

I want your opinion on two scenarios just so I know where you stand:

Scenario one: black officer/white subject - White subject Is a known drug dealer. Black Officer passes him in a neighborhood and pulls him over for traffic violation and white subject bails out and runs. Officer gives chase. Deploys a taser and misses. Ends up shooting and killing the white subject because (according to the officer) the subject pointed a gun at him. The subject is found with a stolen firearm on him and drugs.

Scenario two: white officer/black subject - subject is pulled over for traffic citation and bails out (for unknown reasons). The white officer gives chase in his patrol car. At some point the officer exits his car and chases on foot. Upon returning to his patrol car he sees the black subject in his patrol car attempting to drive it away. He shoots and kills the black subject while sitting in the drivers seat.

To you, which one of these scenarios represent systemic racism?

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I know this is multiple choice, no dialog required, but you know the wrong answer will be given! What a shame!

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

I'm not "acting" in a way other than to post a video and ask what the difference was between someone who was "perceived" to have a gun and was shot 7 times in the back versus someone who yelled that he was going to "****ing" kill the cop? The answer is that it boils down to prejudice and bias.

I've highlighted, in your diatribe, the point for this thread and board. There are a lot of posters on this board who dogged our players for sitting out a practice. People (not going to call them fans) lost their minds because how dare the players think they were "entitled" to have an opinion!

To reiterate the stats you posted: "13% of the population committing some 50+% of all violent crime". Now imagine how a person that has the same skin complexion of that 13% getting pulled over and presumed to be guilty before they even have the chance to open their mouth. Unless you do, then how can you accurately say how someone should feel? I, personally, don't fall into that category - so what exactly is wrong with trying to listen and understand someone else's point of view?

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Did I ever say how someone should feel or not feel? No, I'm pretty sure per your highlight that I have zero issues with the peaceful protests. I will still pull for all of the bulldogs on the field and once they have graduated to be successful in whatever endeavors they pursue afterwards. You aren't allowing for any nuance and are basically playing the "take my ball and go home if you don't agree with me game".

My point was that some of the arguments about cops as a whole are dumb and not based on factual evidence per discussion on this message board. You tend to ignore the data and go off of emotion.

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Originally Posted by Dawgology

I want your opinion on two scenarios just so I know where you stand:

Scenario one: black officer/white subject - White subject Is a known drug dealer. Black Officer passes him in a neighborhood and pulls him over for traffic violation and white subject bails out and runs. Officer gives chase. Deploys a taser and misses. Ends up shooting and killing the white subject because (according to the officer) the subject pointed a gun at him. The subject is found with a stolen firearm on him and drugs.

Scenario two: white officer/black subject - subject is pulled over for traffic citation and bails out (for unknown reasons). The white officer gives chase in his patrol car. At some point the officer exits his car and chases on foot. Upon returning to his patrol car he sees the black subject in his patrol car attempting to drive it away. He shoots and kills the black subject while sitting in the drivers seat.

To you, which one of these scenarios represent systemic racism?

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I'll answer your question. I think we have a "prejudice" problem, more than we have a "racism" problem when talking about police. The reason is that they deal with probably the same deadbeats day in and day out, whether that be with an all white area or all black area. In both scenarios you provided, I think the actions of the officers is justified. The issue I'm simply trying to point out is that when we have kids who attend the same university that we did speak out about how they've been profiled and do so in a respectful manner - why are some here so quick to tell them to "stick to sports"?

I'm not for lawlessness or not supporting police in what they do. Just as a few bad cops spoil it for others, so do looters who take advantage of a movement that actually gets people talking about race relations.

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Originally Posted by BB30

Did I ever say how someone should feel or not feel? No, I'm pretty sure per your highlight that I have zero issues with the peaceful protests. I will still pull for all of the bulldogs on the field and once they have graduated to be successful in whatever endeavors they pursue afterwards. You aren't allowing for any nuance and are basically playing the "take my ball and go home if you don't agree with me game".

My point was that some of the arguments about cops as a whole are dumb and not based on factual evidence per discussion on this message board. You tend to ignore the data and go off of emotion.

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I don't disagree with you. Again, while you may think like this - the majority of the comments on here were not supportive and were rather close-minded regarding our student-athletes.

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

I'll answer your question. I think we have a "prejudice" problem, more than we have a "racism" problem when talking about police. The reason is that they deal with probably the same deadbeats day in and day out, whether that be with an all white area or all black area. In both scenarios you provided, I think the actions of the officers is justified. The issue I'm simply trying to point out is that when we have kids who attend the same university that we did speak out about how they've been profiled and do so in a respectful manner - why are some here so quick to tell them to "stick to sports"?

I'm not for lawlessness or not supporting police in what they do. Just as a few bad cops spoil it for others, so do looters who take advantage of a movement that actually gets people talking about race relations.



I don't disagree with you. Again, while you may think like this - the majority of the comments on here were not supportive and were rather close-minded regarding our student-athletes.

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In my opinion, as a law enforcement officer, scenario 1 was a justified shooting whereas scenario 2 was not. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh

I'll answer your question. I think we have a "prejudice" problem, more than we have a "racism" problem when talking about police. The reason is that they deal with probably the same deadbeats day in and day out, whether that be with an all white area or all black area. In both scenarios you provided, I think the actions of the officers is justified. The issue I'm simply trying to point out is that when we have kids who attend the same university that we did speak out about how they've been profiled and do so in a respectful manner - why are some here so quick to tell them to "stick to sports"?

I'm not for lawlessness or not supporting police in what they do. Just as a few bad cops spoil it for others, so do looters who take advantage of a movement that actually gets people talking about race relations.



I don't disagree with you. Again, while you may think like this - the majority of the comments on here were not supportive and were rather close-minded regarding our student-athletes.

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You are correct and I am not sure why we let the actions of a few dictate our thoughts on the group as a whole. For both the cops and protesters. My issue is you are starting to see cops come out and call out bad cops.

Why don't we see that from the BLM movement? If they would just call out their bad apples and come out and state we aren't for lawlessness etc. I don't think as many people would have an issue with protesting.

In fact, I would bet many on this board would be more open to peaceful protests even if they didn't agree with the premise if that was all that it was. But BLM leading the "movement" is bad as a figure head because they also stand for some things that will only make the situation in inner cities worse such as getting rid of the nuclear family.

Do you know BLM has raised over a billion dollars and not a dime of that has gone to inner cities directly(IE community centers etc.)
The problem won't change until we get into inner cities and get these young fatherless kid's mentors or somebody they can look up to and learn from.

The solution at face value is simple, it just requires an immense amount of work that people aren't willing to do.

What I would do:
_For the cops-
counter to what some think, I would raise pay of police officers and make it a career where you can make a decent living and get paid for the risk you are taking. This would provide an incentive for better qualified candidates to join.

I would provide consistent training for officers that continues after they are in the force and require a monthly amount of paid hours spent on training in both deescalation practices etc.

-For the impoverished communities-
More community centers, YMCAs etc.

More after school programs for young kids to try things they may otherwise not have the opportunity to try. whether that is having a mentor to take a kid hunting/fishing, going to learn to ride horses etc. This would allow for the kid to find something he or she is passionate in and can pursue. The biggest thing is that this stays consistent from the time they are young through high school. Give them a reason to not fall into the gang life etc.

1 to 1 mentorship programs with men that keep reaching out and keep helping these kids whether it is providing clothes/taking the kid out to eat once or twice a week/just being there for them as much as possible.

I know the latter is going to be hard to do for every kid and would be a huge undertaking. It would take people like us to get out in our impoverished communities and becoming involved in things that we may not necessarily be comfortable with in areas that we may not be comfortable with. But if you are wanting to solve the issue it would take a massive undertaking of the above. That is the only way this gets fixed.

Just giving money to people isn't going to change anything because many have been raised to live like they are. You are a product of your environment and how you grew up 99% of the time. If stealing/drugs/murder is all you have ever known to survive you can't possibly know or feel like there is an alternative.

While most of us on this board have grown up in different circumstances I would bet a large majority had someone or somebody that held them accountable and mentored/taught them and played a large role in who we have become. Whether that was a dad, brother, uncle, mom, family friend etc.

Most of the kids growing up in impoverished communities regardless of if it is a poor white trailer park or metro Chicago don't have that kind of a bond with a father figure and if they do it is usually a gang etc. and that is a problem.

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Originally Posted by BB30

You are correct and I am not sure why we let the actions of a few dictate our thoughts on the group as a whole. For both the cops and protesters. My issue is you are starting to see cops come out and call out bad cops.

Why don't we see that from the BLM movement? If they would just call out their bad apples and come out and state we aren't for lawlessness etc. I don't think as many people would have an issue with protesting.

In fact, I would bet many on this board would be more open to peaceful protests even if they didn't agree with the premise if that was all that it was. But BLM leading the "movement" is bad as a figure head because they also stand for some things that will only make the situation in inner cities worse such as getting rid of the nuclear family.

Do you know BLM has raised over a billion dollars and not a dime of that has gone to inner cities directly(IE community centers etc.)
The problem won't change until we get into inner cities and get these young fatherless kid's mentors or somebody they can look up to and learn from.

The solution at face value is simple, it just requires an immense amount of work that people aren't willing to do.

What I would do:
_For the cops-
counter to what some think, I would raise pay of police officers and make it a career where you can make a decent living and get paid for the risk you are taking. This would provide an incentive for better qualified candidates to join.

I would provide consistent training for officers that continues after they are in the force and require a monthly amount of paid hours spent on training in both deescalation practices etc.

-For the impoverished communities-
More community centers, YMCAs etc.

More after school programs for young kids to try things they may otherwise not have the opportunity to try. whether that is having a mentor to take a kid hunting/fishing, going to learn to ride horses etc. This would allow for the kid to find something he or she is passionate in and can pursue. The biggest thing is that this stays consistent from the time they are young through high school. Give them a reason to not fall into the gang life etc.

1 to 1 mentorship programs with men that keep reaching out and keep helping these kids whether it is providing clothes/taking the kid out to eat once or twice a week/just being there for them as much as possible.

I know the latter is going to be hard to do for every kid and would be a huge undertaking. It would take people like us to get out in our impoverished communities and becoming involved in things that we may not necessarily be comfortable with in areas that we may not be comfortable with. But if you are wanting to solve the issue it would take a massive undertaking of the above. That is the only way this gets fixed.

Just giving money to people isn't going to change anything because many have been raised to live like they are. You are a product of your environment and how you grew up 99% of the time. If stealing/drugs/murder is all you have ever known to survive you can't possibly know or feel like there is an alternative.

While most of us on this board have grown up in different circumstances I would bet a large majority had someone or somebody that held them accountable and mentored/taught them and played a large role in who we have become. Whether that was a dad, brother, uncle, mom, family friend etc.

Most of the kids growing up in impoverished communities regardless of if it is a poor white trailer park or metro Chicago don't have that kind of a bond with a father figure and if they do it is usually a gang etc. and that is a problem.

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This post should get a standing ovation. Bravo!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

This post should get a standing ovation. Bravo!

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It is just frustrating that nobody is talking about what we can actually tangibly do.

The first part with the cops would take the government actually figuring something out which is apparently extremely hard for them now because they are constantly politically grandstanding and acting like 5 year old children.

The latter involving the inner cities etc. is something that we could all achieve in our local communities just by getting involved and donating our time to children that need help. There are plenty of charities that people can get involved in both locally and nationally that are doing good things but need more support. This is where we as a community and state could truly make a difference without any help or needs from local or federal govt.

Both sides like to complain about the issues and both have different ideas on the cause of these issues but neither want to actually get involved in solving the problem. The dems just want to throw money at it and the conservatives just want to take social programs away without providing any stability in those communities or any solutions to help get things on the right track.

I am all for getting as many people off of wellfare as we can when done properly. Teach a man to fish and he will never be hungry type of deal.

The left just wants to give them a fish here and there and neither wants to teach the how to fish part. Just like anything you have to learn how to live a balanced financially stable life involved in living within your means.

And BTW, I am conservative, just frustrated that the solutions are in front of us and no steps are being taken to legitimately fix the issues.

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Originally Posted by BB30

It is just frustrating that nobody is talking about what we can actually tangibly do.

The first part with the cops would take the government actually figuring something out which is apparently extremely hard for them now because they are constantly politically grandstanding and acting like 5 year old children.

The latter involving the inner cities etc. is something that we could all achieve in our local communities just by getting involved and donating our time to children that need help. There are plenty of charities that people can get involved in both locally and nationally that are doing good things but need more support. This is where we as a community and state could truly make a difference without any help or needs from local or federal govt.

Both sides like to complain about the issues and both have different ideas on the cause of these issues but neither want to actually get involved in solving the problem. The dems just want to throw money at it and the conservatives just want to take social programs away without providing any stability in those communities or any solutions to help get things on the right track.

I am all for getting as many people off of wellfare as we can when done properly. Teach a man to fish and he will never be hungry type of deal.

The left just wants to give them a fish here and there and neither wants to teach the how to fish part. Just like anything you have to learn how to live a balanced financially stable life involved in living within your means.

And BTW, I am conservative, just frustrated that the solutions are in front of us and no steps are being taken to legitimately fix the issues.

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Absolutely 100% right! There's no solution being offered by anyone, just talk and rhetoric, on all sides. I've spent a lot of my adult years working in the youth programs in my church and working with kids from all walks of life. I've seen many successes with kids who many said didn't have a chance. Amazing what can happen when you reach out and teach people how to have a better life.