Someone please make me feel ok about basketball going forward

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Originally Posted by mic

Here is a simple answer to this question...
Rick Ray is a better X and O coach than Stands period
Our team plays harder and RR gets more out of his players than prob 80% of the teams Stands had.

But he has to recruit better or find a way to get more W's or year 4 will be his last..

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We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable. Just curious: Why do you call him "Stands"?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Agreed on Ray having a better offense in the half-court than Stansbury but Stans had far superior players that more than made up that difference. Put our #2 seed team with this offense and we beat anyone but Xavier that year.

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Stans' second team at MSU was sub-500(14-16). He had built that team for 10 years at MSU. Let's compare apples to apples instead of looking at the height of the Stansbury era to either intentionally or unintentionally skew the argument against Ray...

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable. Just curious: Why do you call him "Stands"?

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if you don't think this teams plays harder that than a lot of the teams that Stands threw out there then I cant help ya..

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Originally Posted by engie

So, you are comparing Ray to someone we couldn't possibly hope to hire. Got it**

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Last 15 years in SEC basketball most wins.
1 Kentucky
2 Florida
3 Tennessee
4 MSU

Tennessee will not hire Pearl back and #1&2 ain't hiring a new coach any decade soon so why can't the next team with the most wins be able to hire Bruce Pearl coming off sanctions and being fired? Remember which team we beat in the SEC Championship game in 2009? Bruce Pearl's Tennessee. He knows all about MSU.

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Originally Posted by Irondawg

Zone offense is better under Ray but I still don't consider it good. IMO ball movement is still a touch too slow and I really think we should utilize the high post a bit more. Like many of Stans teams we're still not a very good passing team and there isn't a lot of natural basketball IQ out there - but that's not a problem limited to MSU. AAU is destroying that and you can see it across all of college basketball.

Purely X&O from what I've seen, I think Ray is a solid coach. Nothing spectacular but far from inept. So that means it all comes down to if he can get his talent level up with players that fit his style and requirements. That's a lot tougher to do in the Southeast than many of you make it.

Let's use Southern Miss' recent return to small relevance in the sport as an example. They have all of 3 players from the Southeast. And of those 3 only two get PT and account for about 12 points and 5 rebounds combined.

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Why can't we win big in the same mold? Why can't we find pipelines to players from fundamental feeder high schools around the country? Why does the number of stars next to that player's name matter?

What I find curious is the "Trust Mullen evaluation over Starz" approach our fans take -- yet they turn DIRECTLY around and bash Ray over his "StarZ recruiting". Seems an awful lot like trying to have your cake and eat it too.

All I'm saying is -- there is NO NEED to define Ray on anything until year 3. Next year, he better get it done. Can you "break down" games in these first 2 years and bitch about a ton of stuff compared to Stansbury? SURE. You could do the same EXACT thing with Cohen compared to Polk -- and alot of people did. Doesn't make it any more right and any less harmful to MSU and the general feelings surrounding the program...

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Originally Posted by mic

if you don't think this teams plays harder that than a lot of the teams that Stands threw out there then I can help ya..

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Just think, if Stans could have got his talented teams to play with half the hustle Ray gets, we would have multiple national championships by now. ***

Hey engie, I think this is another one of those "skewing toward an agenda" posts.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable.

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I agree that a blanket statement like "80% of Stansbury's teams" is untrue. What is true is that all of Ray's players play hard, while only those who were self-motivated played hard under Stansbury for the most part. Most of his teams played good defense and rebounded well because he recruited more of that type of player than not for about 2/3 of his tenure, but it became apparent that he was limited as a motivator when that ratio began to flip around 2007-2008 as he was bringing in more attitude problems than workers.

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Originally Posted by engie

Stans' second team at MSU was sub-500(14-16). He had built that team for 10 years at MSU. Let's compare apples to apples instead of looking at the height of the Stansbury era to either intentionally or unintentionally skew the argument against Ray...

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I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Last 15 years in SEC basketball most wins.
1 Kentucky
2 Florida
3 Tennessee
4 MSU

Tennessee will not hire Pearl back and #1&2 ain't hiring a new coach any decade soon so why can't the next team with the most wins be able to hire Bruce Pearl coming off sanctions and being fired? Remember which team we beat in the SEC Championship game in 2009? Bruce Pearl's Tennessee. He knows all about MSU.

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What the heck makes you think UT won't hire him back? Cuonzo is CLEARLY on the hot seat right now and their fans are CLAMORING for Pearl. And all those wins don't mean anything. They were never significant enough for us to build a badass basketball arena that brought in revenue comparable to the top of the SEC. As such, we're still on the lower tier of basketball money. And Bruce Pearl is about to get PAID by someone nationally and will be the hottest name in coaching coming off his Show-Cause. So, unless you can figure out how we can come up with $2.5-$3million(in which case we probably could have gotten Shaka on the front end), then Bruce Pearl is outside of our league right now.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

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So, you disagree that years 1 and 2 were going to be a rebuild no matter what or who we hired? If that part can be assumed...what, then, are you bitching about?

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

Why do you call him "Stands"?

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It's a play on his nickname because of the irony that the man ran a "motion" offense- but our team did nothing but "stand" around on offense alot of the time

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Just think, if Stans could have got his talented teams to play with half the hustle Ray gets, we would have multiple national championships by now. ***

Hey engie, I think this is another one of those "skewing toward an agenda" posts.

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No need to point it out. Everyone already knows what your agenda is.

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Originally Posted by thf24

I agree that a blanket statement like "80% of Stansbury's teams" is untrue. What is true is that all of Ray's players play hard, while only those who were self-motivated played hard under Stansbury for the most part. Most of his teams played good defense and rebounded well because he recruited more of that type of player than not for about 2/3 of his tenure, but it became apparent that he was limited as a motivator when that ratio began to flip around 2007-2008 as he was bringing in more attitude problems than workers.

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I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

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Originally Posted by engie

No need to point it out. Everyone already knows what your agenda is.

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swing...... and a miss

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

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What are you going to do? Post your displeasure on a message board so that 1% of our fanbase will see it?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

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I've seen this too. Don't know about the "more times than the 14 seasons" part, but I've seen stretches of lazy play. I've seen Ware take whole plays off where he didn't even make it back to play defense. Reminded me of Sideny. I've seen the motionless offense.

But when we stand around and lob up a prayer and it bricks off the backboard, the mantra is that we just don't have any shooters. When it happened under the old regime, it was because we were too lazy or the coaches didn't know how to run an offense.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

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Bringing the ball up the court has nothing to do with playing hard. If our players are as bad as you say they are, do you really want to see them try to play fast and force plays in transition?

Another problem with your points besides being mostly rooted in fantasy instead of reality is that most of them contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

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L O L

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Originally Posted by Coach34

It's a play on his nickname because of the irony that the man ran a "motion" offense- but our team did nothing but "stand" around on offense alot of the time

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Not being sarcastic here. I'm impressed by the construction. Appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

swing...... and a miss

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Yet you only show up when it's time to bitch about our current basketball coach and team.

Your agenda is totally transparent -- and this isn't a new occurrence. It's been consistent for 2 years now.