Sunday Morning QB- I Don?t Give A %*^+ Edition

I was visiting my children yesterday and watched about a quarter. I?ve had enough of the Sylvester Leach offense. When you can?t handle a prevent D as an offense coach- you are doing it wrong. Stop with the Leach had bad 1st years ago Tech and Wash State- he?s had 20 years as a HC to figure it out. Not to mention TT was a solid program when he took it over. End of story.

So Moorhead left us with a solid team? Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I was visiting my children yesterday and watched about a quarter. I?ve had enough of the Sylvester Leach offense. When you can?t handle a prevent D as an offense coach- you are doing it wrong. Stop with the Leach had bad 1st years ago Tech and Wash State- he?s had 20 years as a HC to figure it out. Not to mention TT was a solid program when he took it over. End of story.

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100% agree 34, The Pirate had some success in the other two "Passing But No Defense Leagues"! I also quit watching after halftime, I've seen some bad football at Msu and this year is right there at the bottom.

Every national college football analyst said Leach needed a more viable run game for the air raid to work in the SEC. They're right. Also, I'd say Leach needs a good, tough dual threat QB at the helm b/c at any snap he can take off for 10+ yards if they drop into an 8 man zone.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Every national college football analyst said Leach needed a more viable run game for the air raid to work in the SEC. They're right. Also, I'd say Leach needs a good, tough dual threat QB at the helm b/c at any snap he can take off for 10+ yards if they drop into an 8 man zone.

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Yes sir

What 34 said. Just 17 it all. I am 17ing done until baseball season.

Cool, nobody cares

Anyone who watched the last 15-20 minutes of the game can see that this offense will work with the right QB.

Throw out an offensive line that looks like a Chinese fire drill every snap. Despite their ineptitude, Will was able to make the decisions and move around to make the throws on the money. For whatever reason, the entire offense seemed to wake up when he went in. Receivers were getting separation and actually catching hard thrown balls.

Despite our OL struggling to block a sneeze, anyone with one eye can see a glimpse into the future. Even had A&M buddies texting me first half, asking what the hell our OL was doing. They even noticed we were not even getting a hand on the defense almost every play. I focused more on the OL than the actual play most of the game. It was as bad as I have ever seen. Just minimal improvement from the OL (touching a defender) will help this offense as long as Tyler Russell 2.0 KJ is not in the game.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Anyone who watched the last 15-20 minutes of the game can see that this offense will work with the right QB.

Throw out an offensive line that looks like a Chinese fire drill every snap. Despite their ineptitude, Will was able to make the decisions and move around to make the throws on the money. For whatever reason, the entire offense seemed to wake up when he went in. Receivers were getting separation and actually catching hard thrown balls.

Despite our OL struggling to block a sneeze, anyone with one eye can see a glimpse into the future. Even had A&M buddies texting me first half, asking what the hell our OL was doing. They even noticed we were not even getting a hand on the defense almost every play. I focused more on the OL than the actual play most of the game. It was as bad as I have ever seen. Just minimal improvement from the OL (touching a defender) will help this offense as long as Tyler Russell 2.0 KJ is not in the game.

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We saw Rogers the previous week in a contested game, and it didn't work. I'm all for giving Rogers his shot, but he played yesterday in essentially garbage time... at 28-7, that game was done, finished, over.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Anyone who watched the last 15-20 minutes of the game can see that this offense will work with the right QB.

Throw out an offensive line that looks like a Chinese fire drill every snap. Despite their ineptitude, Will was able to make the decisions and move around to make the throws on the money. For whatever reason, the entire offense seemed to wake up when he went in. Receivers were getting separation and actually catching hard thrown balls.

Despite our OL struggling to block a sneeze, anyone with one eye can see a glimpse into the future. Even had A&M buddies texting me first half, asking what the hell our OL was doing. They even noticed we were not even getting a hand on the defense almost every play. I focused more on the OL than the actual play most of the game. It was as bad as I have ever seen. Just minimal improvement from the OL (touching a defender) will help this offense as long as Tyler Russell 2.0 KJ is not in the game.

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It's obvious Will has a much better grasp of this offense. It's on Leach for not putting him in at the start of the 2nd quarter.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We saw Rogers the previous week in a contested game, and it didn't work. I'm all for giving Rogers his shot, but he played yesterday in essentially garbage time... at 28-7, that game was done, finished, over.

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Jimbo was running out the clock in the 3rd quarter and people think a garbage time TD drive is proof the offense is about to work. I mean, A&M forced a 3 and out on the next drive.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We saw Rogers the previous week in a contested game, and it didn't work. I'm all for giving Rogers his shot, but he played yesterday in essentially garbage time... at 28-7, that game was done, finished, over.

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Garbage time or not, they were playing prevent defense almost the entire game. The effort level when Will came in was night and day different. Even while watching pregame warmups, you could see who the better player was. I posted this yesterday before the game started. Will was hitting the receivers in stride with firm passes. KJ was high and behind people even in warmups, with no zip on the ball. Something clearly is wrong. And from observations the team and crowd yesterday could see this as well.

I am excited to see Rodgers play. I also want to see him do it when the other team doesn't have a 3 touchdown lead late in the game.

People ask how defensive ends can get pressure while only rushing 3. They are SEC defensive ends that dont respect the idea we will even think about running the ball. Our response to that is leave our tackles on islands against an SEC defensive end. Dont be surprised when the defensive end wins some of those snaps.

I do agree about the effort level changed when Rodgers entered. I also agree it is a very telling sign when a QB has to pick himself off the ground.

Yep. And the 3 & out was a result of 3 passes behind the LOS, no of which produced positive yards. Getting rid of the ball quickly isn't necessarily a good thing. In the case of the last drive, I think it was easy pass with no read of the defense.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I was visiting my children yesterday and watched about a quarter. I?ve had enough of the Sylvester Leach offense. When you can?t handle a prevent D as an offense coach- you are doing it wrong. Stop with the Leach had bad 1st years ago Tech and Wash State- he?s had 20 years as a HC to figure it out. Not to mention TT was a solid program when he took it over. End of story.

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I guess they should hire you Coach.

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Originally Posted by basedog

100% agree 34, The Pirate had some success in the other two "Passing But No Defense Leagues"! I also quit watching after halftime, I've seen some bad football at Msu and this year is right there at the bottom.

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Well Base my friend, if you quit watching at halftime you missed our future, Rogers!

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Originally Posted by PendingTransaction

Yep. And the 3 & out was a result of 3 passes behind the LOS, no of which produced positive yards. Getting rid of the ball quickly isn't necessarily a good thing. In the case of the last drive, I think it was easy pass with no read of the defense.

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A false start after a 6 yard gain on the first play

You act like we hang on your every word... because yea, my first thought when I woke up this morning
Was “I gotta hurry up, get my coffee, and see what C34 thinks about the game last night..” No one give a shit...

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Anyone who watched the last 15-20 minutes of the game can see that this offense will work with the right QB.

Throw out an offensive line that looks like a Chinese fire drill every snap. Despite their ineptitude, Will was able to make the decisions and move around to make the throws on the money. For whatever reason, the entire offense seemed to wake up when he went in. Receivers were getting separation and actually catching hard thrown balls.
Despite our OL struggling to block a sneeze, anyone with one eye can see a glimpse into the future. Even had A&M buddies texting me first half, asking what the hell our OL was doing. They even noticed we were not even getting a hand on the defense almost every play. I focused more on the OL than the actual play most of the game. It was as bad as I have ever seen. Just minimal improvement from the OL (touching a defender) will help this offense as long as Tyler Russell 2.0 KJ is not in the game.

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KJ was holding the ball too long, rogers was throwing quick and didn't have nearly the amount of pressure that KJ had. Rouge Dawg good look! Rep given!

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We saw Rogers the previous week in a contested game, and it didn't work. I'm all for giving Rogers his shot, but he played yesterday in essentially garbage time... at 28-7, that game was done, finished, over.

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7, Rogers got reps this week with the 1's because Leach knew he was going to have to use him. You have to have those reps to be successful!

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

Jimbo was running out the clock in the 3rd quarter and people think a garbage time TD drive is proof the offense is about to work. I mean, A&M forced a 3 and out on the next drive.

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One reason is because the offensive line jumped early to put us behind the chains and didn't block worth a damn either.

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Well Base my friend, if you quit watching at halftime you missed our future, Rogers!

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I saw him play in High School. If you go back a few months, I said then with Rogers being young and graduated a year early, he is work in progress. Needs to get stronger and he can be serviceable. It's not so much Rogers I would be worried about, It's Leach and his overall offense. I don't think you can win just tossing the ball around every play in the Sec. Fact is the last 3 games our offense has scored what 3 times?

I will sit and watch without so much bashing, good teams now days have balance on offense, say it ain't so. The Pac 12 and Big 12 suck overall!

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We saw Rogers the previous week in a contested game, and it didn't work. I'm all for giving Rogers his shot, but he played yesterday in essentially garbage time... at 28-7, that game was done, finished, over.

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Rogers had been quarantined the previous 2 weeks and got thrown in the fire. He also didn’t play terrible. Mitchell catches the ball and who knows what happens after that. Either way, he looks better than KJ when he is in the game due to his mobility alone. As bad as our Center and right tackle are, we better have someone back there that can at least get out of the way if we are going to score at all. I am completely apathetic to this team for the remainder of the year. Hopefully we get better up front once leach recruits his guys. One can only hope.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Anyone who watched the last 15-20 minutes of the game can see that this offense will work with the right QB.

Throw out an offensive line that looks like a Chinese fire drill every snap. Despite their ineptitude, Will was able to make the decisions and move around to make the throws on the money. For whatever reason, the entire offense seemed to wake up when he went in. Receivers were getting separation and actually catching hard thrown balls.

Despite our OL struggling to block a sneeze, anyone with one eye can see a glimpse into the future. Even had A&M buddies texting me first half, asking what the hell our OL was doing. They even noticed we were not even getting a hand on the defense almost every play. I focused more on the OL than the actual play most of the game. It was as bad as I have ever seen. Just minimal improvement from the OL (touching a defender) will help this offense as long as Tyler Russell 2.0 KJ is not in the game.

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Well said.

Our biggest issue is/was his commitment to KJ Costello, just like Shotgun said. Alabama couldn't beat our last three opponents with the way he's played.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I was visiting my children yesterday and watched about a quarter. I?ve had enough of the Sylvester Leach offense. When you can?t handle a prevent D as an offense coach- you are doing it wrong. Stop with the Leach had bad 1st years ago Tech and Wash State- he?s had 20 years as a HC to figure it out. Not to mention TT was a solid program when he took it over. End of story.

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First of all its not a prevent D. It is a drop 8 (for the most part), but a bunch of those 8 in the zone are only about 5 to 7 yards off the LOS and are still right there to make tackles even when we check down or call a running play. So teams are playing heavy zone but they are NOT giving up chunks of yardage underneath like a prevent D would. The other thing is that we DO need a QB that can move in the pocket right now because our OL is not good in this system yet. Costello is a total statue and will not work unless you have an OL blocking at a very high level so, for that reason if nothing else, we have to let Rogers play. But that leads to the other issue of NOT getting a Spring practice to go through and teach the fundamentals of how to block in this system. That is not something you can learn over a Zoom call or work on 7 on 7. Leach never had to deal with no Spring at TT or WSU so judging this system with a few weeks of Fall camp is not a fair trial. You and others saying this is not going to work may be absolutely correct but until we get a regular cycle of coaching and learning by the team we won't know one way or the other. Most MS guys have never seen or played in an offense anything close to this.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I was visiting my children yesterday and watched about a quarter. I?ve had enough of the Sylvester Leach offense. When you can?t handle a prevent D as an offense coach- you are doing it wrong. Stop with the Leach had bad 1st years ago Tech and Wash State- he?s had 20 years as a HC to figure it out. Not to mention TT was a solid program when he took it over. End of story.

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Think it?s about time you applied for the job, since you always know how to fix everything

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

First of all its not a prevent D. It is a drop 8 (for the most part), but a bunch of those 8 in the zone are only about 5 to 7 yards off the LOS and are still right there to make tackles even when we check down or call a running play. So teams are playing heavy zone but they are NOT giving up chunks of yardage underneath like a prevent D would. The other thing is that we DO need a QB that can move in the pocket right now because our OL is not good in this system yet. Costello is a total statue and will not work unless you have an OL blocking at a very high level so, for that reason if nothing else, we have to let Rogers play. But that leads to the other issue of NOT getting a Spring practice to go through and teach the fundamentals of how to block in this system. That is not something you can learn over a Zoom call or work on 7 on 7. Leach never had to deal with no Spring at TT or WSU so judging this system with a few weeks of Fall camp is not a fair trial. You and others saying this is not going to work may be absolutely correct but until we get a regular cycle of coaching and learning by the team we won't know one way or the other. Most MS guys have never seen or played in an offense anything close to this.

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A) Yes it is a prevent D- they are dropping 8. The goal is to let nothing behind you and come up and tackle. This aint the Big 12 or Pac 12- SEC players on D come up and make tackles. That is what Leach isnt getting so far vs the Drop 8- no tackles are being broken for big plays to punish the D for playing soft.

B) Rogers is a coach's kid of a pretty good coach. He will do ok- but this system as is will not work in the SEC. Now- having a mobile QB to punish these defenses is a different story. That would add to the running game that is needed.

C) This team had 2 straight months of practice and they had to have worked against the Drop 8 quite often. It wasnt like it was going to be some big surprise. We as of yet have no answer.

D) The OL isnt going to get any better with what we do currently. As I have said for 20 years- the players on the DL of the SEC separate the league from the rest. You can expect SEC teams to continue to get pressure. A&M got a little creative and that is why they had 6 sacks. They lined up one way-shifted- and then brought people from somewhere else. but it was still just a 3 or 4 man pressure. Until there is a run threat- this offense wont get better.

Repeat- until there is a run threat- this offense wont get better. SEC DL's have too many grown ass men on them

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Originally Posted by TexasDawg

Think it?s about time you applied for the job, since you always know how to fix everything

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My ass could score 21 points in the last 3 games just like Sylvester Leach did. I promise you.

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

You act like we hang on your every word... because yea, my first thought when I woke up this morning
Was “I gotta hurry up, get my coffee, and see what C34 thinks about the game last night..” No one give a shit...

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I've done these for the last last 7-8 years between Sixpack and Elitedawgs. They have always been among the highest of views on average for the site. So yeah- people do. Sit back, stop whining, and stay in your lane.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I've done these for the last last 7-8 years between Sixpack and Elitedawgs. They have always been among the highest of views on average for the site. So yeah- people do. Sit back, stop whining, and stay in your lane.

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You can't come close to the Bert thread, tho, lol.**

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

You can't come close to the Bert thread, tho, lol.**

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Bert's thread hammering my Network thread hurt

C34 I think you're being a bit intellectually dishonest regarding the OL: You imply the whole pass blocking issue is Leach's wide splits, and that the DE's "don't respect the run". Well, why don't they respect the run? Because the OL can't run block either.

The odds of the OL being unable to win 1 on 1's in the run game and ALSO being just fine at pass pro were it not for Leach's splits seems low. They simply look poorly coached to me. They miss assignments and aren't physical when they do lock up with someone. Ad if we could run it for 5-6 yards a pop like we should vs a 5 man box the DE's wouldn't pin their ears back.

The splits might not help either but at the end of the day the OL is sucking at everything. Cross is good but the other 4 are liable to get beat, be it by a DE, NT, DT, or LB, and often the defender seems lined up right in front of them so weird angles from wide splits doesn't apply.

As for the "The O works with Rogers vs it was just garbage time and the O didn't work anyway" argument, lets just agree that the best 2 drives of the last 2 games were with Will in. KJ had his chances to score in garbage time and he couldn't' do it. SO how much better is the O with Will? I don't know, but it IS BETTER

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Bert's thread hammering my Network thread hurt

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The COVID thread smoked both, if that helps, lol.

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

C34 I think you're being a bit intellectually dishonest regarding the OL: You imply the whole pass blocking issue is Leach's wide splits, and that the DE's "don't respect the run". Well, why don't they respect the run? Because the OL can't run block either. The odds of the OL being unable to win 1 on 1's in the run game and ALSO being just fine at pass pro were it not for Leach's splits seems low. They simply look poorly coached to me. They miss assignments and aren't physical when they do lock up with someone. Ad if we could run it for 5-6 yards a pop like we should vs a 5 man box the DE's wouldn't pin their ears back. The splits might not help either but at the end of the day the OL is sucking at everything. Cross is good but the other 4 are liable to get beat, be it by a DE, NT, DT, or LB, and often the defender seems lined up right in front of them so weird angles from wide splits doesn't apply.

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A) SEC DL players are elite or very good

B) Our wide splits allow those athletes to use multiple moves on our OL guys- we are at a disadvantage

C) Because of the speed of SEC DL's- stunts they run get to the QB more often than stunts run by teams like Iowa State, Washington, Utah, etc

D) Our run game is so basic it doesnt give the DL's anything to really prepare for

And for the money:

Our OL coach has been an Air Raid guy most of his career and has worked for Mumme and Leach. His OL's at Wash State in 2018 and 2019 allowed the fewest sacks in the conference. So tell me- what has changed? Leach has his guy coaching the OL. This guy was the awesome in the Pac12- what changed?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A) SEC DL players are elite or very good

B) Our wide splits allow those athletes to use multiple moves on our OL guys- we are at a disadvantage

C) Because of the speed of SEC DL's- stunts they run get to the QB more often than stunts run by teams like Iowa State, Washington, Utah, etc

D) Our run game is so basic it doesnt give the DL's anything to really prepare for

And for the money:

Our OL coach has been an Air Raid guy most of his career and has worked for Mumme and Leach. His OL's at Wash State in 2018 and 2019 allowed the fewest sacks in the conference. So tell me- what has changed? Leach has his guy coaching the OL. This guy was the awesome in the Pac12- what changed?

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Well for one he had OL at Wazzou that had been in Leach?s system for a number of years and were specifically recruited to run that scheme while ours have only been for 4 games and no Spring practice.

Perhaps that too much common sense though. Not sure.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Well for one he had OL at Wazzou that had been in Leach?s system for a number of years and were specifically recruited to run that scheme while ours have only been for 4 games and no Spring practice.

Perhaps that too much common sense though. Not sure.

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LOL- our guys on the OL run blocked and pass blocked before Leach got on campus. How is that for common sense? Leach didnt bring in a system of Mandarin Chinese mathematics with his pass blocking

I’m a big believer in Occum’s Razor and The easiest explanation here is that 4 games and no Spring practice isn’t near enough time to make any grand conclusions on the future of this OL. Occum’s Razor says that 4 games and Spring practice ain’t enough time to flawlessly implement a new blocking style.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I’m a big believer in Occum’s Razor and The easiest explanation here is that 4 games and no Spring practice isn’t near enough time to make any grand conclusions on the future of this OL. Occum’s Razor says that 4 games and Spring practice ain’t enough time to flawlessly implement a new blocking style.

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Thats what you dont seem to understand- it's not that different. We zone block and we pass block. The difference is now we have more 1-on-1's with bigger line splits- which allows the athletes that plays on SEC DL's use their athleticism. It's really quite simple

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Originally Posted by Coach34

LOL- our guys on the OL run blocked and pass blocked before Leach got on campus. How is that for common sense? Leach didnt bring in a system of Mandarin Chinese mathematics with his pass blocking

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LOL. You’re a coach for goodness sakes.

So the new wide splits take no time to adjust to? Or does that not fit your narrative? Just trying to figure out why you didn’t include that obvious point in your post.