I hate basketball, but I gave our team a chance tonight.
I emotionally re-engaged tonight & cleared my schedule root on the Dawgs.
I was greeted by a team with no low post presence & no defense.
You won't see me at the Hump this year.
Maybe someday this program will get back on it's feet.
Yeah we arent that good at all. I thought this class would be on the level of kentucky but I was wrong. Bama is not that good and we lose at home to them by jacking up a 100 3s and can't hit any of them.
Why would you think we'd be on the level of Kentucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonDawg4Life
I had a bad feeling about tonight after either losing or struggling to beat a slew of bad teams in the pre-conference. Couldn't bring myself to watch it so just kept live stats running. I was hoping I was wrong but this team still has a very, very long way to go to just compete with good teams (which Bama is not).
Ha. Move on then. They will not miss your non-support.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
This class is no where near Kentucky. They have 4 top 25 guys in each class. We have zero on entire roster. We have a bunch of future decent college players.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonDawg4Life
This exactly. People that are used to football recruiting often have a hard time understanding basketball recruiting. In football, there isn't a lot of separation between the #1 and #4 ranked classes. In basketball, the top 2 or 3 classes (pretty much Kentucky, Duke, and Kansas or NC usually) are truly elite and the next 10 or so classes are all equivalent to maybe a #10 -#15 football class and don't have a lot of separation. The gap between class #'s 3 and 4 is about equal to the discrepency between #4 and #40. Our talent level compared to Kentucky is ridiculously low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big4Dawg
It took you until tonight to know all that? What have you been watching? Whatever it was, you had maroon colored glasses on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
If you thought this then I just can't help you. The difference in the top 10 basketball recruit vs a top 100 is equal to a top 300 in football vs a top 2000. Big difference some make it in each group some don't. And to add, all of ours Except q are fr. And q struggled tonight. It happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonDawg4Life
Tonight was simply an illustration of what some of us have been saying since the third game. Besides being insanely young, we must depend heavily on outside jump shots because we have no reliable inside presence (yet). If those shots are falling, we have a chance to beat anyone not named Kentucky. If not, we can easily lose to anyone in the conference. We're also most likely going to go as Q goes from here out. If he has a bad game, we probably lose. If you were surprised by any of this, then you weren't paying attention prior to this game. Forget expectations and just look for the high points this season; next year is the year.
Right, probably only 2 times in our history have we been on their level. Once when Bailey Howell played, and our 1996 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerdawg
Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.
I am sure there are much better coaches on this message board. ******Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
Howland has a very good track record at 3 other schools, and his win records show major improvement in year two. We should be beyond the point of having a setback like last night, by now. So I'm a little concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
When it's obvious our shooting is off, I wish we would full court press some esp against bigger teams like bama last night. Seems this would be a way to get us some easy baskets
I doubt he started with the cupboard as bare as he did here at Pitt and UCLA. His best talent last year were freshman, then he had to start almost completely over this year, returning only two significant contributors in Q and Ready (Holman only played half a season and spent most of that time getting his legs under him). With even more talent coming in and current weaknesses shored up, next year should look more like year 2 at his last two stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Actually, no, they show major improvement in year three. We're not there yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Our fans need to chill and keep supporting these kids. If you looked at Kentucky and thought, 'As long as you have highly recruited freshmen, you'll be great!' then that's on you. Their freshmen are on a different level, and even they are older than we are.
We have the kind of kids that have a chance to be really good by years 2-3. These are not kids expected to step in and carry you to a Final Four right away. We basically have a bunch of Jamont Gordon's and Charles Rhodes'. They weren't that good right away but they got there.
The last thing this group needs is a bunch of fans who tune in, say, 'Ah, they suck' and give up. Get behind them and see where they can take us. Because we're going there, the only question is when our own fans decide to get on board.
Typical fair weather response.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Obviously, you do not understand basketball.
This young team NEEDS fan support more than anything. They feed off of energy. They were outmatched and it showed. For those thinking BAMA is a bad team, go watch some basketball and learn. BAMA has improved for the past three years and they have quality upperclassmen. We have none. Zero.
Our team is improving and if anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge can see it. The potential is high, and we do rely on the outside shot too much. Sort of expected when the opposing team is taller/bigger at EVERY position.
For our team to come out of the half and tie the game shows the potential they have. They need fan support and people in the seats. Home court advantage has not been present @ MSU in over 5 yrs. It affects everything, down to ref calls which were terrible last night.
I think people are overreacting because either
A. You're expectations were too high
Or
B. You don't understand the game of basketball very well
Damn..... some of you gave Ray 3 years but you won't give a proven winner 3. We need more big men..... any of you that followed any sort of basketball recruiting would know that Herard needed time to develop. You'd also know that we missed on recruiting the 4, which is what we needed desperately. Y'all are some impatient bastards.
A Gavin Ware would make a huge difference on this team. You could slide Holman to the 4 and you have your big body rebounder and your off side shot blocker. Herard is giving his all but like you said...he needs time.Quote:
Originally Posted by defiantdog
C. Some understand we suck and are tired of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboydawg
Anyone who thought this was going to be an easy 1-2 year rebuild was fooling themselves. The game has changed way too much over over the past 10 years - and it has been way too long since we were a Top 25 program for this to be easy.
While everyone wants to blame Loafers and Rick Ray - the decay is much deeper. MSU has not finished a season in the Top 25 since 2004. MSU has not had a NCAA Tourney team since 2009. It's 2017 - and it has been 13 years since we were really relevant on a national level. We had a nice run from 1991-2004 - but even that only included six finishes in the Top 25. That is not a basketball power school. It just isn't. And before that, you have to go back to the 1960s to see us ranked.
The Hump used to be a great place to watch basketball. We had some great games and competitive teams. We didn't suck a lot (unlike football), although I sat through 3 years of mediocre ball from 1992-1994 before actually seeing a "good" team in 95. But beyond that, no one should be thinking Howland was going to turn us into Kentucky. If you do, you are on some high quality weed.
Add Lawrence Robert's first yearQuote:
Originally Posted by NCDawg
Nope, go back to A or B. If you think we can be good right away at MSU after the 5-6 years before Howland we subjected ourselves to, you're delusional. At this point your options are either have some patience, understanding we're finally back on a good track, or stop paying attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgface
I wish we had kept giving datcher a few mins a game. If so, we could afford to go big with herard and Holman on the court at the same time vs teams like bamaQuote:
Originally Posted by Cowboydawg
Agreed. Having to play a stretch 4 as our starting C is killing us in more ways than one.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That's understandable but this team has some real talent. I'm tired of sucking in basketball too and I was mad last night after the loss but these freshmen cant be held accountable for the past few teams failures. They are going to get better...this year...but they are also going to be frustrating at times. Howland has some great film from last night where they can see when they are at their best and when they are at their worst. That was the first SEC game of their careers. Don't give up on the yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgface
wrong--- 1990 team was and the Rickey Brown -Wiley Peck-Ray White team was.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDawg
Do you really believe this?Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
I don't know what's going on with Datcher. I thought he looked more fluid and athletic than Herard when he played. Seems to rebound just as well also.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Past the point of having a setback like last night? Shit, we lost by 15 to f-ing Lehigh. I'm not real sure what folks were expecting as we hit SEC play. This team is gonna have some head scratching performances, which is typical of young teams that rely heavily on 3 point shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Agreed, we will have some terrible games but we can also beat just about anyone left on the schedule when we are on. They are young. We really really need to find and or develop a true 5 instead of playing a stretch 4 down low. Most of these kids have never learned to play defense it will take some time. We are light years ahead of where we were 3-4 years ago even if it has not shown up on the court yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
I agree, he gets another pass this year. Next year we need to be in or really close to the NCAA tourney. In year 4 we should be a Sweet 16 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by thf24
No, that is not yet to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparkerfd20
Damn we have quite the number of people on here who don't have a clue about basketball. If you can't see we have some talented young players then I can't help you because you don't know anything about basketball. As others have said, our freshman aren't Kentucky's freshmen. If you expected that, that's your fault for being delusional. Our guys best years are ahead of them. Last night was bad and I was frustrated afterwards too, but these guys are getting better. Just be patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgface
it is pretty simple and has been said before. We live by the 3 and we die by the 3. Last night we died a grisly death. Q cannot have a $hitty game and us win. Ben really got the shaft when Ado didn't qualify. When the other team needs to score they just go to Ready's man and either drive by Him or shoot over Him. I think X needs to start with Peters and give Ready limited minutes. Plus last night Ready sucked on the offensive end.Peters needs to learn how not to commit silly fouls. When we shoot over 35% from the 3 we have a chance to win.
Yep, De'Ron Davis would have made a huge difference with this team.Quote:
Originally Posted by defiantdog
Wow you cleared your schedule?! We are all so proud of you and glad you graced us with your basketball support for a game!1!11 Now we won't see you at the hump this year! However will we all survive?!!1/?!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I'll second Kentuckydawg you're a typical fairweather fan. No one cares if you don't come to anymore games so stay your ass at the house if that's what you want to do.
I think we actually found a lineup last night with Peters, Q, X, Keglar, and Holman. And then what happens, X hurts his knee again and has to come out. That lineup was matching up well as far as defense and rebounding and we were closing the gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7