Things we like to forget when we want to overact.

1. Any coach in America needs time to get his guys in place. I've heard that excuse for everyone including Lemon. I haven't heard that mentioned once on here in the off-season or since the season began. Especially on offense, we have to remember that ZA needs time to recruit the guys he thinks we need to win. And he's doing a pretty good job thus far. But we have to treat him like you would any other HC hire and give him time. He didn't inherit the 85 bears....
2. Spivey out is a MAJOR blow. More than most realize. The only experienced TE on the roster in which we had no clue of issues until may and thought he would get cleared. We have no TE scoring weapons until they develop. This serves as support for #1.
3. If we swap QBs last night, we win by 40 and everyone on here today is quiet and no weekend warriors calling out ZA (only on here of course-never to his face). I love Will but he isn't even a game manager at this point. He's a leader but he can't take over a game. We need a QB that can take a game over. He did it once against Auburn in 21 but it will never happen again against anyone good. Quit blaming the HC for an inherited deficiency that he can't change overnight. Parson will be the guy to change all this. Start training Will to be an OC. He can make more money than I ever will...

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

1. Any coach in America needs time to get his guys in place. I've heard that excuse for everyone including Lemon. I haven't heard that mentioned once on here in the off-season or since the season began. Especially on offense, we have to remember that ZA needs time to recruit the guys he thinks we need to win. And he's doing a pretty good job thus far. But we have to treat him like you would any other HC hire and give him time. He didn't inherit the 85 bears....
2. Spivey out is a MAJOR blow. More than most realize. The only experienced TE on the roster in which we had no clue of issues until may and thought he would get cleared. We have no TE scoring weapons until they develop. This serves as support for #1.
3. If we swap QBs last night, we win by 40 and everyone on here today is quiet and no weekend warriors calling out ZA (only on here of course-never to his face). I love Will but he isn't even a game manager at this point. He's a leader but he can't take over a game. We need a QB that can take a game over. He did it once against Auburn in 21 but it will never happen again against anyone good. Quit blaming the HC for an inherited deficiency that he can't change overnight. Parson will be the guy to change all this. Start training Will to be an OC. He can make more money than I ever will...

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1- No. We have a very vet/SR team that was groomed for the Air Raid. We will not get this chance with this many SR/GR again. At least I hope we never have covid again. It was either:

- A stupid hire by a HC in his first year
- Or the OC bluffed his way into the position and has NO idea what the hell to do with the talent he has.

Either way, it's crap and on the HC as well as the OC.


2- Doesn't matter if he is out. We had ZERO TEs on this team and we changed offenses KNOWING that. If he can't do the job to fill that position with the needed players, we should not have changed the offense and adapted. There is always a chance of players getting injured too. So again, why the massive change rather than a step in that direction.


3- The QB was not and is not the problem! He averaged 9.5 YA.... That way more than the rushing game. The issue was the OC play calling and plan!

Well when Lemonis inherited a veteran team with multiple first round picks on it and SEC/MSU baseball legends like Jake Mangum, Tanner Allen, and Elijah MacNamee among others he immediately took us to Omaha and then won a National Championship in his first few years.

That's part of what is so disappointing. Every MSU mouthpiece and Barbay himself talked about how he adapted to his personnel. So far through two games he has not. Instead we've gotten a lot of pistol/heavy run, questionable play calling, play makers completely disappearing for no logical reason and even the guys being "fed" used in questionable ways. The rare times we have done anything that resembled something Air Raid-ish it has been successful.

And it's not like he doesn't have much to work with.

He has one of the best passers in SEC history who has won 9 games for us. He also has a running QB who started at Vanderbilt and has won some big games for them.

We have Woody and Pittman who are competent backs. He uses Woody so credit where credit is due I guess? But even then we're using him so much he is already getting banged up and we haven't even started SEC play yet.

We have multiple four star receivers who have performed well for us- Tulu, Robinson who was the bowl MVP, Zavion, Creed who looks super talented, Mosley, and then we have Walley and Bellazar and Roberson as back ups.

Sure, TE is lacking but we have Harmon who was a four star guy and I think Goede was as well.

We have an o-line that is all juniors and seniors who have all started.

With all of that- and we can't figure SOMETHING out with this group? I know this isn't the 1989 49ers or 07 Patriots but come on. How about play action? We run it 30 times to set it up and then never do it? Wouldn't that help Will with some deep passes? 8 men in the box- do we have a slant or a fade in the playbook somewhere?

I just wonder if Barbay is overthinking everything trying to set something up and he gets more worried about "sequencing" that he forgets to attack what is presented and then he never even gets to his clever play action pass. So we just end up wasting a bunch of time not scoring and then us in the stands are wondering what the hell is going on.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

1- No. We have a very vet/SR team that was groomed for the Air Raid. We will not get this chance with this many SR/GR again. At least I hope we never have covid again. It was either:

- A stupid hire by a HC in his first year
- Or the OC bluffed his way into the position and has NO idea what the hell to do with the talent he has.

Either way, it's crap and on the HC as well as the OC.


2- Doesn't matter if he is out. We had ZERO TEs on this team and we changed offenses KNOWING that. If he can't do the job to fill that position with the needed players, we should not have changed the offense and adapted. There is always a chance of players getting injured too. So again, why the massive change rather than a step in that direction.


3- The QB was not and is not the problem! He averaged 9.5 YA.... That way more than the rushing game. The issue was the OC play calling and plan!

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Once in a lifetime, huh? Not short on dramatics I see

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Well when Lemonis inherited a veteran team with multiple first round picks on it and SEC/MSU baseball legends like Jake Mangum, Tanner Allen, and Elijah MacNamee among others he immediately took us to Omaha and then won a National Championship in his first few years.

That's part of what is so disappointing. Every MSU mouthpiece and Barbay himself talked about how he adapted to his personnel. So far through two games he has not. Instead we've gotten a lot of pistol/heavy run, questionable play calling, play makers completely disappearing for no logical reason and even the guys being "fed" used in questionable ways. The rare times we have done anything that resembled something Air Raid-ish it has been successful.

And it's not like he doesn't have much to work with.

He has one of the best passers in SEC history who has won 9 games for us. He also has a running QB who started at Vanderbilt and has won some big games for them.

We have Woody and Pittman who are competent backs. He uses Woody so credit where credit is due I guess? But even then we're using him so much he is already getting banged up and we haven't even started SEC play yet.

We have multiple four star receivers who have performed well for us- Tulu, Robinson who was the bowl MVP, Zavion, Creed who looks super talented, Mosley, and then we have Walley and Bellazar and Roberson as back ups.

Sure, TE is lacking but we have Harmon who was a four star guy and I think Goede was as well.

We have an o-line that is all juniors and seniors who have all started.

With all of that- and we can't figure SOMETHING out with this group? I know this isn't the 1989 49ers or 07 Patriots but come on. How about play action? We run it 30 times to set it up and then never do it? Wouldn't that help Will with some deep passes? 8 men in the box- do we have a slant or a fade in the playbook somewhere?

I just wonder if Barbay is overthinking everything trying to set something up and he gets more worried about "sequencing" that he forgets to attack what is presented and then he never even gets to his clever play action pass. So we just end up wasting a bunch of time not scoring and then us in the stands are wondering what the hell is going on.

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This is one of my main concerns, we have playmakers at the WR positions but won't throw the dang ball at all. As glad as I am to see us run the ball we also have to pass it and get the ball in the hands of our playmakers. This offense just confuses me

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Once in a lifetime, huh? Not short on dramatics I see

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Facts are Facts - Why? Covid gave us the super seniors. We may never have this old of a team again, and within my lifetime it's probably a given it won't happen.

An older player is better than his younger self but is he better than the guys that are NFL ready by year 2 or 3? I say no. We are better than we could have been without these super seniors but are we better than a team that has a bunch of 3 year guys? No, because they are good enough that the NFL wants them today and not just at the end of 3 years.

This may have been our chance with Leach calling plays but I doubt anyone on this planet could have made the air raid work like Leach. I say we had to move on from the air raid but the play calling can be better. Will it? LSU will come into town next weekend... get ready for either a complete meltdown or maybe find some hope. I am not sure which will happen but I will be watching.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Once in a lifetime, huh? Not short on dramatics I see

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When have we had 21 SRs that either start or in rotation?

Offensive Starters:

WR 3 Justin Robinson 6-4 220 R-Jr.

TE 88 Ryland Goede 6-6 260 R-Sr.

LT 69 Kwatrivous Johnson 6-7 330 Grad.

LG 66 Nick Jones 6-3 300 Sr.

C 57 Cole Smith 6-3 305 Grad.

RG 64 Steven Losoya III 6-4 320 R-Sr.

RT 58 Kameron Jones 6-5 315 Grad.

WR 11 Jaden Walley 6-0 195 Sr.

WR 5 Lideatrick Griffin 5-10 180 Sr.

QB 2 Will Rogers 6-2 215 Sr.

RB 7 Jo'Quavious Marks 5-10 210 Sr.


That's 10 starting SR/Grad.... 1 JR


Defensive starters last game:

DE 9 De'Monte Russell 6-4 280 Sr.

NT 22 Nathan Pickering 6-4 305 Sr.

DT 94 Jaden Crumedy 6-5 305 Grad.

SLB 0 De'Shawn Page 6-2 235 Sr.

MLB 14 Nathaniel Watson 6-2 245 Grad.

WLB 44 Jett Johnson 6-2 230 Grad.

CB 3 Decamerion Richardson 6-2 295 Sr.

S 1 Marcus Banks 6-0 190 Sr.

S 7 Shawn Preston Jr. 6-0 205 Grad.

S 21 Hunter Washington 5-11 190 R-So.

CB 2 Esaias Furdge 6-0 185 Grad.


That's 10 starters that are Srs or Grads.


So for the last game we put on the field 20 starters that are SRs or Grads.


So no, it's not dramatic to say that comes along once.

You would never know we had such a loaded mature team after two games, but we are 2-0. Not sure we will beat the Corndogs then it comes down the next week on the first road trip as a must win situation for success I think.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

Facts are Facts - Why? Covid gave us the super seniors. We may never have this old of a team again, and within my lifetime it's probably a given it won't happen.

An older player is better than his younger self but is he better than the guys that are NFL ready by year 2 or 3? I say no. We are better than we could have been without these super seniors but are we better than a team that has a bunch of 3 year guys? No, because they are good enough that the NFL wants them today and not just at the end of 3 years.

This may have been our chance with Leach calling plays but I doubt anyone on this planet could have made the air raid work like Leach. I say we had to move on from the air raid but the play calling can be better. Will it? LSU will come into town next weekend... get ready for either a complete meltdown or maybe find some hope. I am not sure which will happen but I will be watching.

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We've had better teams in the last decade

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

When have we had 21 SRs that either start or in rotation?

Offensive Starters:

WR 3 Justin Robinson 6-4 220 R-Jr.

TE 88 Ryland Goede 6-6 260 R-Sr.

LT 69 Kwatrivous Johnson 6-7 330 Grad.

LG 66 Nick Jones 6-3 300 Sr.

C 57 Cole Smith 6-3 305 Grad.

RG 64 Steven Losoya III 6-4 320 R-Sr.

RT 58 Kameron Jones 6-5 315 Grad.

WR 11 Jaden Walley 6-0 195 Sr.

WR 5 Lideatrick Griffin 5-10 180 Sr.

QB 2 Will Rogers 6-2 215 Sr.

RB 7 Jo'Quavious Marks 5-10 210 Sr.


That's 10 starting SR/Grad.... 1 JR


Defensive starters last game:

DE 9 De'Monte Russell 6-4 280 Sr.

NT 22 Nathan Pickering 6-4 305 Sr.

DT 94 Jaden Crumedy 6-5 305 Grad.

SLB 0 De'Shawn Page 6-2 235 Sr.

MLB 14 Nathaniel Watson 6-2 245 Grad.

WLB 44 Jett Johnson 6-2 230 Grad.

CB 3 Decamerion Richardson 6-2 295 Sr.

S 1 Marcus Banks 6-0 190 Sr.

S 7 Shawn Preston Jr. 6-0 205 Grad.

S 21 Hunter Washington 5-11 190 R-So.

CB 2 Esaias Furdge 6-0 185 Grad.


That's 10 starters that are Srs or Grads.


So for the last game we put on the field 20 starters that are SRs or Grads.


So no, it's not dramatic to say that comes along once.

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Wonder why those guys didn't leave college for pros. Experience is great, but top end talent is better

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Wonder why those guys didn't leave college for pros. Experience is great, but top end talent is better

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Some of those will play at the next level. But spin it anyway you want. It's all good and the OC called a heck of a game. His game planning was nothing short of brilliant.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

Some of those will play at the next level. But spin it anyway you want. It's all good and the OC called a heck of a game. His game planning was nothing short of brilliant.

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I didn't say it was a good game by the OC... no one has said that. I just don't think this is one of the greatest state teams of all time like you. I think it's a solid team that will get solid results - 8 wins or so. If that doesn't happen, then we have issues. 2014, 2015, and 2018 were way more talented

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

Some of those will play at the next level. But spin it anyway you want. It's all good and the OC called a heck of a game. His game planning was nothing short of brilliant.

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Did you ever take the time out in your delusional world to actually think that if we did bring in an OC running the AR it would not be Mike Leach's Pure AR?

We still would be transitioning to another guy's version of the AR. OL splits, run blocking, pass blocking would not be what Leach ran for three years. And don't argue, it wouldn't. Totally different compared to Pure AR.

And don't get me started on how the AR tree now uses dual threat QBs.

The problem now is not so much Barbay, although his game plan did suck, it's that we have a Tyler Russell situation with Will in this offense.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Did you ever take the time out in your delusional world to actually think that if we did bring in an OC running the AR it would not be Mike Leach's Pure AR?

We still would be transitioning to another guy's version of the AR. OL splits, run blocking, pass blocking would not be what Leach ran for three years. And don't argue, it wouldn't. Totally different compared to Pure AR.

And don't get me started on how the AR tree now uses dual threat QBs.

The problem now is not so much Barbay, although his game plan did suck, it's that we have a Tyler Russell situation with Will in this offense.

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This isn't about what we could have done differently in hiring. This is not an issue with personnel. Saturday was a piss poor game plan and even worse in game adjustments.

If the OC can not figure out what we have all figured out (that we can run the ball very well and have a great passer) then he needs to go yesterday.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

This isn't about what we could have done differently in hiring. This is not an issue with personnel. Saturday was a piss poor game plan and even worse in game adjustments.

If the OC can not figure out what we have all figured out (that we can run the ball very well and have a great passer) then he needs to go yesterday.

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No, you're just butt hurt we didn't stick to the Air Raid. It's kind of hard to game plan for a team that upgraded from the portal. Although, I do believe Arnett and Barbay greatly underestimated how much better Arizona would be from last year. Every player they got from the portal was an impact player Saturday night.

Barbay stated several times that he adapts his O to the personnel he has. That doesn't mean he has to run the Leach version of the Air Raid tho. So ... maybe he was just blowing smoke and saying that to get the job.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

No, you're just butt hurt we didn't stick to the Air Raid. It's kind of hard to game plan for a team that upgraded from the portal. Although, I do believe Arnett and Barbay greatly underestimated how much better Arizona would be from last year. Every player they got from the portal was an impact player Saturday night.

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That's just you trying to justify what we both know was a botch game plan and horrible play calling. You want to make this about something it's not.

It's not hard to game plan around the friggin strengths of a team.

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Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

This is one of my main concerns, we have playmakers at the WR positions but won't throw the dang ball at all. As glad as I am to see us run the ball we also have to pass it and get the ball in the hands of our playmakers. This offense just confuses me

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Not only are we not throwing the ball enough, we don't run hardly any 10 personnel at all. We have at least 7 WRs who are better than anyone listed as a TE on this roster, yet we are in 11 and 12 personnel for almost the entirety of the game. Not only that, but because we don't have a true TE, we are super predictable. For example, Malik Ellis played 25 snaps against Arizona. 22 of those snaps were run plays out of 12 personnel. I'm not sure we have run more than 2 plays in 2 games out of 10 personnel.

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

That's just you trying to justify what we both know was a botch game plan and horrible play calling. You want to make this about something it's not.

It's not hard to game plan around the friggin strengths of a team.

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Dude, you want to fire Barbay (and Arnett for that matter) after one botched game against an upgraded P5 team in Arizona. Sweetheart, we weren't playing SELA.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Dude, you want to fire Barbay (and Arnett for that matter) after one botched game against an upgraded P5 team in Arizona. Sweetheart, we weren't playing SELA.

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Maybe I missed it but I don?t recall black sails calling for anything that dramatic.

And as much as me and him go to war about Will, I don?t disagree with what he?s saying here

Barbary inherited a team that had ran the pure Air Raid for 3 seasons. To have that same roster run the ball 70% of the time is certainly not ?adapting to your roster?.

It was a bad game by Barbay. Let?s hope that?s how it stays- an oddball one off, and not a sign of his abilities.