State and NCAA Baseball

Some of you seem to need a history lesson on baseball.

NCAA Baseball Titles 1976-2000

Pac-12- 9 titles
SEC- 6....LSU with 5 and Georgia 1
Big 12- 2
Cal-State Fullerton- 3
ACC/Miami- 3
Wichita State- 1
Pepperdine- 1

Before 2000- SEC success was LSU. State was a Top 20 program. From 1976-2000 State did not have 1 losing season and only 2 since 1960. The SEC did not care about baseball. Then 2000 got here and it all changed.

2001-2023:

SEC- 9 (6 different teams)
Pac 12- 5
ACC- 2
Big 12- 2
Coastal 1
Rice- 1
Fresno State- 1
Fullerton- 1

Since 2001- we have had 5 losing seasons. We have had 1 SEC title since 1990. ONE in the last 33 years. To act the way some of you do is puzzling to me. We are a Top 20 program but we arent LSU. 1 SEC title in the last 33 years. We arent a Top 5 program that should be in Omaha every year. The SEC has gotten tougher and its extremely competitive. As in football now- money and the town of StarkVegas come into play in recruiting. It's not 1989 anymore when our stadium is way better than everybody else's. It's a different animal than it was when Polk coached.

2024 will tell the tale on Lemon. He either gets it done or he doesnt.

Don't forget about how many times we have been to regionals and won. Also we've won the Sec tournament a few times and we have played in CWS several times. It's not like we aren't a top program, but we are a top 20 or better baseball program.
The Sec is tough in all sports, we've gotten better overall over the years I think.

Yeah we suck we should accept that who wants to make Hoover

We won a national championship with the SEC being better than ever. This is some stupid ass shit!

The last 25-30 years we're very comparable to A&M football. Especially since they've joined the SEC. Imagine if it was an 8-team playoff in 2020 and A&M won it all. We'd be exactly the same the last 10 years.

Consistently hyped. Tons of resources. Poached big name coach. On every recruit's shortlist. Currently inexplicably shitting the bed.

But in Baseball we're easily top 10 if not top 5.

I struggle to name 5 programs better. LSU, Texsa, Vandy?
Florida, Ark, OM, SCar are all similar tier as us at best. Who else you taking? FSU?

Stop making excuses for an underachieving staff. Period. The same people who attacked Leach cannot defend this

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Originally Posted by Tater

But in Baseball we're easily top 10 if not top 5.

I struggle to name 5 programs better. LSU, Texsa, Vandy?
Florida, Ark, OM, SCar are all similar tier as us at best. Who else you taking? FSU?

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Top 5 in the SEC? Yeah, we can do that. LSU, Candy, Fla are definitely ahead of us. UPig, Us, SC, Mississippi, Tenn all grouped together. Tenn doesnt have the history but they have momentum and certainly viewed as a top SEC program right now.

Nationally, it's LSU, Texas, Miami, Oregon St, Candy, Fla, UCLA then about 20 teams including us rounding out the top 25-26 programs

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Stop making excuses for an underachieving staff. Period. The same people who attacked Leach cannot defend this

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Nobody is defending it. He doesnt make it happen next year he's gone. Pretty cut and dry

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Top 5 in the SEC? Yeah, we can do that. LSU, Candy, Fla are definitely ahead of us. UPig, Us, SC, Mississippi, Tenn all grouped together. Tenn doesnt have the history but they have momentum and certainly viewed as a top SEC program right now.

Nationally, it's LSU, Texas, Miami, Oregon St, Candy, Fla, UCLA then about 20 teams including us rounding out the top 25-26 programs

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I challenge that Miami and UCLA are above us. I forgot about the beavers I'll be honest. And we're at the top of that "20 team" pile you tried to put us in to make your point. UCLA doesn't even average 1k+ attendance. Miami is just weird right now. PAC-12 is dead in college baseball.

LSU / Texsa ///// Vandy / Oregon State / Florida / State / FSU / OM / UPig / SCar. Then it's UTK / Stanford / Miami / Etc. We're top 10. We did make 5 straight Supers across 4 diff coaches. LSU and Texsa are in a different stratosphere, our fans are unfortunately wrong to think we are there yet, I'll give you that. But we're top 10.

LSU has one of the softest "dynasties" ever. They were built on steroids and loaded bats and they basically gamed the system. Since Bertman left they have two National Championships and which is the same amount as Vandy and South Carolina.

The reality is the SEC has taken over college baseball as a league because of Mississippi State and LSU and what those two did in the 80's and 90's. People talking about how facilities don't matter? Well that's part of the reason why the SEC is plucking the better players from the West Coast schools because no one on the West Coast cares enough to show up.

The "old" SEC West- MSU, Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, and Auburn- have five teams that have either played for or won a National Championship. That number was one in 1990- and that was a runner up finish by Alabama. Pretty much every team in the SEC has either a massive fan base that cares a lot about baseball or they are in one of the big population states- Florida, Georgia, and Texas- where they basically can find 16 players that want to stay home and have an elite team. The only exceptions being Kentucky- which by the way set attendance records this past year for them and Mizzou which is between two MLB cities and is only a few hours away from Chicago one of America's largest cities.

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Originally Posted by Tater

I challenge that Miami and UCLA are above us. I forgot about the beavers I'll be honest. And we're at the top of that "20 team" pile you tried to put us in to make your point. UCLA doesn't even average 1k+ attendance. Miami is just weird right now. PAC-12 is dead in college baseball.

LSU / Texsa ///// Vandy / Oregon State / Florida / State / FSU / OM / UPig / SCar. Then it's UTK / Stanford / Miami / Etc. We're top 10. We did make 5 straight Supers across 4 diff coaches. LSU and Texsa are in a different stratosphere, our fans are unfortunately wrong to think we are there yet, I'll give you that. But we're top 10.

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I'll say this- I've been to both MSU and LSU for big games when both were rolling and doing well. The Dude is a better atmosphere than Alex Box.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'll say this- I've been to both MSU and LSU for big games when both were rolling and doing well. The Dude is a better atmosphere than Alex Box.

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The Big house is bigger and better than the shoe. Ohio state still reigns as top dog between those two.

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Stop making excuses for an underachieving staff. Period. The same people who attacked Leach cannot defend this

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He wasn't. But can you do the same when Will has a bad game?? Nvm I know the answer. Wr suck. Line sucks. Something.

We demonstrated that we aren't an elite program when we gave Lemonis a third chance to not suck.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

We demonstrated that we aren't an elite program when we gave Lemonis a third chance to not suck.

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Next May, Lemonis will look like Longshanks on his death bed when his son?s wife tells him she is pregnant with The Rebellious Scot?s baby.

Enjoy Football and Basketball. Lemonis has made MSU Baseball synonymous with US Men?s Soccer.😳 Ouch!

The problem is that we probably will improve some next year, but if we make the tournament at all, Lemonis is going to get 2025 and just set us up for mediocrity as a program.

I'm not saying we should expect Omaha every other year, but we should be in the mix to host at least every other year, more like 6-7 times a decade. Sometimes you just fall on the wrong side of the hosting bubble. Like in 2014 we went 18-12 in the SEC, which is almost always good enough to host, but for whatever reason our RPI just wasn't good enough and we didn't get one. Bad luck with our scheduling. I wouldn't hold that season against Cohen, and if that's what we do in 2024, I won't hold it against Lemonis. But anything short of that, and Lemonis should be done. 3 seed? Fired. 2 seed that was way out of the hosting conversation? Fired. Even with some improvement over the rock bottom he had us in 22 and 23, that's 3 straight years below a realistic standard for our program.

After all, look at how we performed after Cohen pulled us out of the muck:
2012: 16-14, won SECT, barely missed hosting (I think this is the year the "Will State host?" Twitter meme started?)
2013: 16-14, hosted
2014: 18-12, barely missed hosting
2015: 8-22, oops
2016: 21-9, hosted
2017: 17-13, I don't recall us being in the hosting mix, but we must have been close
2018: 15-15, not in the hosting mix
2019: 20-10, hosted
2020: COVID
2021: 20-10, hosted

That's a 10-year stretch (really a 9-season stretch) with 4 hostings, 2 more barely missed (maybe 3?). This standard I'm putting out there is realistic.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

The problem is that we probably will improve some next year, but if we make the tournament at all, Lemonis is going to get 2025 and just set us up for mediocrity as a program.

I'm not saying we should expect Omaha every other year, but we should be in the mix to host at least every other year, more like 6-7 times a decade. Sometimes you just fall on the wrong side of the hosting bubble. Like in 2014 we went 18-12 in the SEC, which is almost always good enough to host, but for whatever reason our RPI just wasn't good enough and we didn't get one. Bad luck with our scheduling. I wouldn't hold that season against Cohen, and if that's what we do in 2024, I won't hold it against Lemonis. But anything short of that, and Lemonis should be done. 3 seed? Fired. 2 seed that was way out of the hosting conversation? Fired. Even with some improvement over the rock bottom he had us in 22 and 23, that's 3 straight years below a realistic standard for our program.

After all, look at how we performed after Cohen pulled us out of the muck:
2012: 16-14, won SECT, barely missed hosting (I think this is the year the "Will State host?" Twitter meme started?)
2013: 16-14, hosted
2014: 18-12, barely missed hosting
2015: 8-22, oops
2016: 21-9, hosted
2017: 17-13, I don't recall us being in the hosting mix, but we must have been close
2018: 15-15, not in the hosting mix
2019: 20-10, hosted
2020: COVID
2021: 20-10, hosted

That's a 10-year stretch (really a 9-season stretch) with 4 hostings, 2 more barely missed (maybe 3?). This standard I'm putting out there is realistic.

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I don't think just making a regional necessarily means he is back no matter what. Larry Templeton isn't running our AD either. Our powers that be aren't going to just let LSU, Arkansas, and etc. just run circles around us for long.

I think he pretty much has to get to a SR unless we do something else like win the SEC during the regular season or win the SEC Tournament and then get upset in a regional or at the very least host a regional. Huge difference between hosting a regional and getting upset and being a 3 seed and not making it out of a regional.

Goodness, this is like a slow motion train crash.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

We demonstrated that we aren't an elite program when we gave Lemonis a third chance to not suck.

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I knew that way before then. People will argue but when you go to CWS 12 times, you?re eventually going to win one. Lemonis just so happened to be the coach at the time. It could have happened with Polk, McMahon and Cohen but it don?t work out. According to the sunshine pumpers, I don?t know baseball and a Cohen hater. Look at where we are at now. I think State is a good but not great program.

The SEC is way too competitive now in baseball and Lemo is the perfect guy to keep a team 3/4 of the way to the bottom regularly. The experts here on Elite dogs all know this and seem to accept it. Parker better sure have the ability to make a turnip bleed.