One Small Observation of the more Powerful hitters in these Regionals....

And wouldn't you know every one of these hitters has a few things in common, that someone has been talking about all season long and the last 5 years.

Elbows pointing down toward the plate, hands around the back shoulder pre swing, and elbows pinched together. Hmm. Guess all those hitters are idiots and don't know proper mechanics that provide the most power. I understand most people on here refuse to acknowledge what I say about hitting mechanics, but for those who are watching these regionals, the proof is in the results. I've pointed out what mechanics influence power ad nauseam, but I cannot understand it for everyone on here. It's up to you to observe and start to see these things.

Missouri State Lefty has just about perfect mechanics and just parked one on the building beyond the 330' RF fence, with an effortless swing. Why you ask? Because he has power mechanics. Even one of the smallest guys for Mercer, led the team with 17 HR's, Why? You guessed it, his hands started off in the correct spot.

Which goes back to Wes Rea and no excuse for him not to put up 15+ hr in a 50+ game season. If someone had just made a few minor changes to his stance and hands he would have raked. Every one of our hitters would see power increases if someone worked with their hand placements, period.

ETA: Matheny for MSU just parked a GS and he's not very big, but someone please tell everyone where his hands and elbows where before he swung? He also finished out in front of the plate which is another aspect of the swing I've harped on. He finished out front of his body as opposed to around his body like most of our hitters. I really hope everyone is watching these regionals to obtain some Reference examples of what I've been talking about.

Are you talking about hand placement pre or post load? Bc it sounds like you are talking about pre load. Pre load approaches are a dime a dozen and they all can work as long as you get to where you need to be post load. Not saying your way can't work, but look at bonds, Sosa, trout, Griffey, Sheffield, etc. Pre load hand placement's only purpose is to get you where you need to be post load, but I would agree that simplifying movement and already having yours hand in a post load position simplifies one's approach.

Dude, nobody has ever suggested you don't have some idea of what you're talking about. But you have a very basic understanding, yet you believe a couple tweaks on every player equals power-hitting stud. That's why everyone thinks you're insane.

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Not much difference.

I hate to even respond to this but I'd like to point out a few things...

1)Pre load hand position doesn't mean a damn thing. Guys just need to be comfortable and able to get their hands in the correct position.

2) Wes rea was never consistent with his power for a few reason: he was a notorious guess hitter, he looked to go the other way, he drug his hands instead of getting the bat head out on a consistent basis (see my first and second point on him)

3) we would have hit with more power if we would have been in attack mode in hitters counts.

4) I saw good power strokes from hump, Collins, and even rooked during the season. Oppo power is a sure sign of a mechanically sound approach, despite the fact that they, Collins in particular, dont meet your "hand placement criteria"

5) heck, Robson, gridley, etc; weren't going to hit for power no matter where they start their hands.

All that to say this; we know you fancy yourself a hitting mechanics genius but your notion of only one way to get it done really screams that you don't know as much as you are so desperate for us to think that you do. The things you are saying aren't INCORRECT but I've been around a lot of guys that don't fit the narrow mold you suggest that could mash. Could an adjustment or two benefit us? Absolutely. Do I think you are aware what every adjustment is that needs to be made to get the mos ou of each individual player? Absolutely not.

And I have one more question: do you coach a 13 or under travel ball team?

This is why it's so difficult to explain things on here. Before the players swings the bat( ie pre load, load, whatever, because some players have zero load), the hands need to be in general area within 2-4" of the back shoulder with, at minimum, the front elbow down close to the core of the body. The lateral hand position determines the back elbow position, but with the front elbow tucked, the back elbow is forced close to the body upon swing, thus little to no loss of power.

And I only speak of the basics because getting more in depth is pointless on here. I would delve into pitch selection and reading the situation to know what pitchexnare coming, but attempting to explain basic physics and leverage of a swing is difficult for people to understand. As I'll say again, do boxers throw punches with their elbows out away from their bodies?

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

This is why it's so difficult to explain things on here. Before the players swings the bat( ie pre load, load, whatever, because some players have zero load), the hands need to be in general area within 2-4" of the back shoulder with, at minimum, the front elbow down close to the core of the body. The lateral hand position determines the back elbow position, but with the front elbow tucked, the back elbow is forced close to the body upon swing, thus little to no loss of power.

And I only speak of the basics because getting more in depth is pointless on here. I would delve into pitch selection and reading the situation to know what pitchexnare coming, but attempting to explain basic physics and leverage of a swing is difficult for people to understand. As I'll say again, do boxers throw punches with their elbows out away from their bodies?

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A hitter could start with his hands up his ass as long as he ends up in the right power/hitting position at impact. Please stop

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Originally Posted by KB21

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Not much difference.

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Huge difference If only a few inches are the difference in power. The further the hands are away from the back shoulder (lateraly, vertically and/or horizontally) the less potential power possibly generated. And look at Hump's back elbow. It's lateral to the ground. The only way that swing can get on the proper plane through the zone is for that back elbow to drop down either creating a loop swing or a reverse C. Top pic the hitters hands are even with elbow and an inch or two higher. This allows him to leave his front elbow in a more powerful position.

And those pictures are taken from different angles. Top has elbow on front half of torso, Hump is at least midway because hands are too high. Humps elbow also causes front arm bar and forces a gate swing (lots of rollover ground balls to pull side and lazy pop flies oppo). If he pulled the hands down 3-4" the front elbow would move back into proper position and the swing would be less susceptible to arm bar or reverse c.

One reason Reid showed signs of more power than most of our other hitters This year, was his hands starting that far back in his stance. Given the hands there don't lead to a higher batting average as would hands 3" lower, When he made contact he was able to generate more power than the majority of our hitters who start with their hands around their back ears. It's exactly what I've been talking about. We don't need a complete revamp of Our offense. We simply need a coach who can look at these things and move the hands a little. Leave the rest of the swing as is and we will see improvement across the board. Moving the hands just a little one direction can drastically change and improve a swing and results. There are multi drills that can aid the change (belt around body and front elbow, taking batting practice with back up against a fence, etc.) but have to change hand positions on most of our hitters if we expect any improvement in overall power.

https://youtu.be/GihW7AKcLIw

Here is a video of Joey Swinarski in high school. He was a noted power hitter coming out, and injuries have derailed his career at MSU. His hands and elbow are high in this stance, but notice where he drops both when he starts his swing process. He is in the power position. I think this is what Rogue is talking about. Where you start your hands does not matter. It's where your hands are when you are loading that matters.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Huge difference If only a few inches are the difference in power. The further the hands are away from the back shoulder (lateraly, vertically and/or horizontally) the less potential power possibly generated. And look at Hump's back elbow. It's lateral to the ground. The only way that swing can get on the proper plane through the zone is for that back elbow to drop down either creating a loop swing or a reverse C. Top pic the hitters hands are even with elbow and an inch or two higher. This allows him to leave his front elbow in a more powerful position.

And those pictures are taken from different angles. Top has elbow on front half of torso, Hump is at least midway because hands are too high. Humps elbow also causes front arm bar and forces a gate swing (lots of rollover ground balls to pull side and lazy pop flies oppo). If he pulled the hands down 3-4" the front elbow would move back into proper position and the swing would be less susceptible to arm bar or reverse c.

One reason Reid showed signs of more power than most of our other hitters This year, was his hands starting that far back in his stance. Given the hands there don't lead to a higher batting average as would hands 3" lower, When he made contact he was able to generate more power than the majority of our hitters who start with their hands around their back ears. It's exactly what I've been talking about. We don't need a complete revamp of Our offense. We simply need a coach who can look at these things and move the hands a little. Leave the rest of the swing as is and we will see improvement across the board. Moving the hands just a little one direction can drastically change and improve a swing and results. There are multi drills that can aid the change (belt around body and front elbow, taking batting practice with back up against a fence, etc.) but have to change hand positions on most of our hitters if we expect any improvement in overall power.

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That's not either one's load position.

Pre-load hand position is all that matters**

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Are you talking about hand placement pre or post load? Bc it sounds like you are talking about pre load. Pre load approaches are a dime a dozen and they all can work as long as you get to where you need to be post load. Not saying your way can't work, but look at bonds, Sosa, trout, Griffey, Sheffield, etc. Pre load hand placement's only purpose is to get you where you need to be post load, but I would agree that simplifying movement and already having yours hand in a post load position simplifies one's approach.

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Agree with this. Back in my high school days, I even practiced the Kevin Youkilis approach. During pre-load, I would adjust my hand position up and down the bat. The way you really know your approach is working is when during post load the bat almost feels smaller and lighter in your hands after your follow through. At the end of the day, different players are going to have different approaches. How individual players get from pre-load to post load should be left to what makes the hitter most comfortable, and trying to tweak that is over coaching IMO.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

This is why it's so difficult to explain things on here. Before the players swings the bat( ie pre load, load, whatever, because some players have zero load), the hands need to be in general area within 2-4" of the back shoulder with, at minimum, the front elbow down close to the core of the body. The lateral hand position determines the back elbow position, but with the front elbow tucked, the back elbow is forced close to the body upon swing, thus little to no loss of power.

And I only speak of the basics because getting more in depth is pointless on here. I would delve into pitch selection and reading the situation to know what pitchexnare coming, but attempting to explain basic physics and leverage of a swing is difficult for people to understand. As I'll say again, do boxers throw punches with their elbows out away from their bodies?

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You don't even understand basics. That's why you can't talk about fundamentals properly on here much less get in depth. You have been shown photo after photo and videos of high level power hitters (Trout, Cabera, etc) debunking your thoughts. They don't do this even in stance much less pre-load.

He refuses to study videos and learn what is really going on. He refuses to learn from videos showing he is not correct and that stance and pre-load are NOT absolutes in a swing.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Huge difference If only a few inches are the difference in power. The further the hands are away from the back shoulder (lateraly, vertically and/or horizontally) the less potential power possibly generated. And look at Hump's back elbow. It's lateral to the ground. The only way that swing can get on the proper plane through the zone is for that back elbow to drop down either creating a loop swing or a reverse C. Top pic the hitters hands are even with elbow and an inch or two higher. This allows him to leave his front elbow in a more powerful position.

And those pictures are taken from different angles. Top has elbow on front half of torso, Hump is at least midway because hands are too high. Humps elbow also causes front arm bar and forces a gate swing (lots of rollover ground balls to pull side and lazy pop flies oppo). If he pulled the hands down 3-4" the front elbow would move back into proper position and the swing would be less susceptible to arm bar or reverse c.

One reason Reid showed signs of more power than most of our other hitters This year, was his hands starting that far back in his stance. Given the hands there don't lead to a higher batting average as would hands 3" lower, When he made contact he was able to generate more power than the majority of our hitters who start with their hands around their back ears. It's exactly what I've been talking about. We don't need a complete revamp of Our offense. We simply need a coach who can look at these things and move the hands a little. Leave the rest of the swing as is and we will see improvement across the board. Moving the hands just a little one direction can drastically change and improve a swing and results. There are multi drills that can aid the change (belt around body and front elbow, taking batting practice with back up against a fence, etc.) but have to change hand positions on most of our hitters if we expect any improvement in overall power.

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For what it's worth, a good frien said Reid quit listening to our hitting coaches and philosophy and started listening to his brother more for hitting approach, mechanics, etcetera.

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Am I the only one that immediately thinks of the principal in Billy Madison when this "power hitting" discussion happens each few weeks?....

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Originally Posted by Bucky Dog

For what it's worth, a good frien said Reid quit listening to our hitting coaches and philosophy and started listening to his brother more for hitting approach, mechanics, etcetera.

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2nd such report on a player this year. And people still want to keep the "hitting guru"

This can't be good for crooting.

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Originally Posted by KB21

That's not either one's load position.

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And it's not their take position. Jesus H some of you are dense. Here's the main point. Keep the elbows in tight for maximum power and the hands as close to the back shoulder. Moving more to load decreases your time to see and react. Reid does not load and pinch in his elbows. He moves hands slightly down and back. Both cause front arm bar from where he starts.

Ok people for all of you nit picking, please watch the missle Florida's Buddy Reed just hit. He did exactly what I'm talking about before he "loaded" his swing. He pinches his elbows and wrists, then had a quick powerful swing through the zone, sending a middle over RF wall.

And we all heard throughout the season how "Hitting Guru" was teaching a slap approach which explains why our hitters hands were they were in a non power, slap contact position.

For what it's worth, when Johnny doesn't overthink he's very knowledgable on "situational" hitting and what play to put on. His mechanic teaching has never been there which makes me wonder who his hitting coach was at UK. Did the short porch in RF really mask his inefficiencies as a hitting instructor? Something doesn't make sense with it all.

Looks like Bakersfield is all Adidas, including bats. Been slugging it too.