Lots of talk about our emphasis on movement vs. velocity and other things. If you were in charge, what attributes are you looking for in pitchers you are recruiting?
To get them on campus you either have to find an overlooked guy or someone that MLB sees as a having big enough flaws to not draft early in the draft.
I guess if I'm making a list I look at a few things:
1) Frame - in general biggers guys have a greater chance of success. It's not my main attribute but can be a tiebreaker. If you have a 5'9 guy vs. a 6'4 guy that can add 25 pounds of muscle I'm taking the 6'4 guy even if as a HS he might not be quite a good. The talent differential needs to be big.
2) Velocity - it's not secret that in general the harder, the better
3) Mound mentality - you want a fighter that doesn't have meltdown innings and shows an ability to make a big pitch in big spots.
After that it becomes a bit subjective. If he can throw 94 with no control, do I see something in his motion that I think I can fix that would in turn fix the control. Conversely does a guy throw 89 but I think he's inefficient and there is a hidden 5 mph there that can easily be brought out.
How much do I really care how advanced the offspeed stuff is at this point? Having a plus offspeed pitch is great but does not having a good secondary pitch mean a guy can't learn one?
I like having the sidearmers - good ones can be a beast in the bullpen so I have no problem continuing trying to find/convert guys to fill these roles.
Finally do you even look at the Ross Mitchell types? Guys who rely on deception and movement
You can't talk about pitchers without talking about defensive types, too. Ideally, you'd want a guy who pounds the bottom half and the corners of the strike zone, and then back them up with a strong infield. Or you can have guys who pitch to contact and play to the advantage of having a large yard. I think you really need a good mix....you want a power, strikeout arm one day, then a corners-and-down guy the next, then a crafty, pitch-to-contact guy the next. That keeps opposing lineups off balance over the course of a series. Of course, you want power arms for the back end of your bullpen.
Cohen seems in the mindset of getting certain types of guys, and I think that's part of the problem. You need a mix of guys with different skillsets, because you have to be able to adjust.
That's an interesting argument. How much variation do you want in your staff?
You certainly want some and it's one of the reason I like the sidearmers. Heck, it would even be fun to have a knuckleballer on staff.
I don't think there's such a thing as too much variance when it comes to pitching. You're going to have your ace-types that will pitch every weekend, but you also want different types of guys you can play matchups with, too. If we're playing LSU, for example, and they have guys that just feast on fastballs, you're going to want a crafty, knees-and-black, mixed speeds pitcher out there. If you're in a situation where a team has the bottom of the lineup coming up in a late inning, you want a power arm to overmatch them. I just think that when you think in terms of "we need this specific type of pitcher," you end up painting yourself into a corner. That's exactly what happened to us this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
Teams that win National Championships typically have two Chris Stratton type pitchers and then a Holder at closer.
I would try to find three guys that throw in the low 90's- probably two RHP and a LHP. Odds are pretty good that there will be some variance between them- one may have a good curve, the other a good slider, and then one is left handed. The biggest thing to look for is command, movement, and then velocity. I'd also like to have a senior that can pitch midweek and do a good job for us- someone like a Pollorena.
Then the bullpen I would try to find three more power arm guys that are a little bit raw but have two good pitches that are fearless- Holder/Lindgren types that just come after you and blow you away.
I would also have one sidearm/submarine guy simply because those are guys that can eat innings if the starter gets into trouble and can bridge the gap between the starter and the bullpen.
NO knuckleballers. Just because they don't know where the ball is going. And then you have to have a catcher that knows how to catch them- which is usually going to be someone that can't hit worth a darn and hurts your offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
R.A Dickey is fun to watch sometimes- but I don't want him on the Cardinals.
Much like the power hitters discussion in the other thread, pitchers who have velocity, movement, and command tend to go pro. I think you definitely need to target power arms, or pitchers with "stuff". MSU has done that. Dakota Hudson can touch the mid 90s on his fastball but to this point has had poor command of that pitch. Zac Houston has a great fastball. Jesse McCord is a consistent low 90s guy. In the current recruiting class, you have Parker Ford and Gray Fenter who are flame throwers.
You want a mix of both. But bottom line- you want guys that know how to pitch. They arent throwers- they are pitchers. Every pitcher you have needs to know how to make the ball move- and what their own body can do to make the ball move. Not all guys can make a CB break as sharp or a FB get as much run. You need guys that believe they are the best when they are on the hill- not somebody hoping to get people out.
There are guys that look like they are absolutely at home on the mound. You can just see it in their face. And then there are guys that you can see the stress they face out there. I never want a guy that shows stress or looks scared. We had some of those guys on the hill this year.
I'd almost go in the reverse order from Todd. Command is a flaw I hope I could correct with form. Harder to teach velocity. But once again you'd have to scout to see how much you'd have to rebuild of the motion.
Amen coach. Attitude has to rank high on the list when it comes to pitchers
Guys that can ****ing pitch.
The majority of pitchers coming from the high school level don't know how to pitch though. They know how to blow their stuff by guys, but they don't know how to pitch. See Dakota Hudson to this point. They also develop at a different pace. Chris Stratton didn't come around till his 3rd year on campus, but he is one of the more ideal situations. You want guys who will go pro after three years by and large. My hope is that Dakota Hudson is the next, as he has a first round arm. In the incoming class, we have Parker Ford, Grey Fenter, Ethan Small, Keegan James, Noah Hughes, Jared Padgett, Kale Breaux, Trysten Barlow, Konnor Pilkington, Ryan Cyr, and Alex London coming in as pitchers. I think this is a good mix of guys who have stuff and pitchers who have a reputation of being command guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34