Hey Coach, Football Kwerstion......

You said J-Rob & Shump were on a different level than the other guys last week. Care to elaborate on how Shump looked? Did he show any potential for breakaway speed? Or was it more of the battering ram approach we saw last season where he can't get into the clear? How'd his hands look? I'm still of the opinion that he hasn't shown me the top end speed needed to be an elite SEC RB, but obviously there's still plenty of time for that to change. Just curious as to your impressions after last weekend.

never going to see breakaway speed from Shump. He's going to create space with his strength and physicality. He's a 4.6 kinda guy and he's not nearly as fast as Robinson and prolly not as fast as Griffin. He is however going to be a good back but just not a guy with a ton of speed. To me, he's a cross between Vic Ballard and Boobie and I'll take that all day, every day.

And I don't think speed is all that crucial at RB, honestly. It's nice to have someone who can turn the corner and turn on the jets when he has the chance, but you don't have the chance to do that much in the SEC. Generally speaking, if you can break through the line, regardless of whether you're 4.4 or 4.6, it will be tough to catch you before you hit the end zone, and most of the running is done within 20 yards of the LOS.

I honestly don't think Gurley has elite speed; my guess is that he's in the high 4.5's; but he does have good acceleration and can find holes, and is just hard to tackle. If Shumpert has good balance, vision, and strength, he'll be plenty good.

Really like the transition we seem to be making. With TR and LP we weren't nearly as tough as I'd like. Dak, jrob, shump, griffin, and williams are at the physical level I want

Im pulling for Griffen.. I hope he makes big plays for us... Hes over a year out of surgery now so he should be ready to really go.

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Originally Posted by thedawg

Im pulling for Griffen.. I hope he makes big plays for us... Hes over a year out of surgery now so he should be ready to really go.

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he's not on the same level as the other two

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

To me, he's a cross between Vic Ballard and Boobie and I'll take that all day, every day.

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Didn't both Vic and Boobie have break away speed?

From what I saw last year, the only thing that made Shump look impressive is that he seemed pretty damn strong for a true freshman. I don't think his stats will look as great as some other backs we'll have because I don't think he'll light up OOC competition, but I'm thinking he may not have as big of a drop off when he faces stout SEC defenses, where you pretty much have to get yards after contact if you're going to beat them.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

You said J-Rob & Shump were on a different level than the other guys last week. Care to elaborate on how Shump looked? Did he show any potential for breakaway speed? Or was it more of the battering ram approach we saw last season where he can't get into the clear? How'd his hands look? I'm still of the opinion that he hasn't shown me the top end speed needed to be an elite SEC RB, but obviously there's still plenty of time for that to change. Just curious as to your impressions after last weekend.

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You have the old saying "Looks like Tarzan- plays like Jane". Well both Shump and JRob look like Tarzan and play like Tarzan. They are both really strong, good-looking RB's up close. Drills are crisp. They are physical in blocking drills. All the little things.

On the play where Goat/Real Deal is talking about JRob running over Jiles- it was a play to the outside and you could see the opening develop on the outside from where I standing (behind the Secondary)- and JRob read it perfectly and exploded into it. That's when poor Cedric Jiles had to step in and make a play- and JRob just lit his ass up. Perfect job of reading the play, and exploding into the hole for a big gain.

In group when they were working the run game- JRob and Shump look good running the plays and making cuts. We got back to running the counter and also were running the counter option. Both just look good and comfortable.

Shumpert is going to be a physical, bruiser RB. He is never going to be breakaway guy. But he also wont be pulled down with one arm by guys on D like Perkins was. So I guess we basically trade the big play here and there for fewer short gains. I just really love having the physical RB's in the run game this year

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

Didn't both Vic and Boobie have break away speed?

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Yes, they did. Vic moreso than Boobie. Speed definitely isn't everything for a RB, but it is an important factor. I haven't seen anything from Shump yet that makes me think if he gets into the clear that he's going to be able to pull away. He'll be hard as hell to stop in short yardage, though. I'm also a little concerned about how much he initiates contact. You aren't going to truck the Bama LBs the way you will Alcorn's LBs. As the old adage goes: "Run to daylight."

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Originally Posted by Coach34

You have the old saying "Looks like Tarzan- plays like Jane". Well both Shump and JRob look like Tarzan and play like Tarzan. They are both really strong, good-looking RB's up close. Drills are crisp. They are physical in blocking drills. All the little things.

On the play where Goat/Real Deal is talking about JRob running over Jiles- it was a play to the outside and you could see the opening develop on the outside from where I standing (behind the Secondary)- and JRob read it perfectly and exploded into it. That's when poor Cedric Jiles had to step in and make a play- and JRob just lit his ass up. Perfect job of reading the play, and exploding into the hole for a big gain.

In group when they were working the run game- JRob and Shump look good running the plays and making cuts. We got back to running the counter and also were running the counter option. Both just look good and comfortable.

Shumpert is going to be a physical, bruiser RB. He is never going to be breakaway guy. But he also wont be pulled down with one arm by guys on D like Perkins was. So I guess we basically trade the big play here and there for fewer short gains. I just really love having the physical RB's in the run game this year

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Awesome. Thanks for the analysis. Definitely love that we're moving toward the power backs, too.

I would be very surprised if Shumpert has any less top-end speed than Dixon. Dixon is a classic 4.6ish RB. I'd guess that Shumpert would run a legit 40 of at least 4.6 (or better) at the combine.

Defenses are going to get tired of tackling Shump and JRob. These backs are going to look a lot faster in the second half of games. Can either of them kick a field goal??

Vic didn't have breakaway speed either. He ran 4.65 at the combine. What Vic had & I think Shump will show is that they both have football speed. Not blazing on a stopwatch but rarely get caught from behind on the field.

had that. Good speed, yes. Breakaway, no. Vic ran a 4.59 at the combine. Dixon ran a 4.67. That's not break away speed IMO but they produced big time for us and in the end that's all that matters. Just for fodder, here's the NFL scouting report on Dixon and Ballard prior to the draft:

Analysis - Dixon
Strengths:

Dixon is a big, bruising running back who was highly productive against premier competition in college. Displays the necessary power to consistently break tackles. Exhibits impressive balance on contact and is rarely brought down by the first tackler. Shows nice foot agility for a big, power back.

Weaknesses

His top end speed to be a threat on the perimeter or explode for long gainers up the middle is dubious. Must improve his ball security as he?s shown he will put the ball on the ground at times. Struggles getting to the outside.


Analysis - Ballard
Strengths

Ballard is a very instinctive runner. He has a natural ability to sift through defenders in the backfield and shows good burst after he's broken through the line. He is a good runner and has deceptive juke moves that he will use on bigger players. Ballard carries the ball high and tight and is conscious of oncoming traffic, making him dependable inside. He is a big body, willing to block oncoming linebackers in pass protection. He also understands how to work upfield for the first down after catching the ball, making him a good check-down option in the pass game. Ballard is a willing special-teams player who seeks contact and likes to fly around.

Weaknesses

Ballard is not what one would call a quick-twitch athlete. He is big but doesn't run with a ton of power; bigger linebackers often bring him down on first contact. He is instinctive inside and while carrying the ball in the flats, but he is not fast enough to get to the edge on his own. He is natural between the tackles but can look like a deer in headlights in the open field.

Emmett Smith ran a 4.6 to 4.7 . A lot of speed backs can't get past the line of scrimmage. Perk was faster than Vic, but Vic never got caught once he broke it. It seems Like perk got caught a lot. Football speed vs Track speed.

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Originally Posted by dogshiek

Defenses are going to get tired of tackling Shump and JRob. These backs are going to look a lot faster in the second half of games.

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No doubt, they're definitely the kind of power RB that will wear on a D and get stronger as the game goes on. But we've seen JRob has that extra gear once he gets into the open field. Shump can definitely be a big factor for us, though, especially in short yardage.

My biggest concern with Shump is something that Mullen himself said last year. I think he likes contact a little too much. It seems like he's always looking for a defender to truck and seeks out contact instead of running to the open space. I think he needs to learn that you can be a supremely physical RB without having to run over someone every time you have the ball. Initiate contact when the defender gets to you, but don't seek out defenders to run over needlessly. If he can improve in that area, he'll be an extremely good RB and save himself a lot of future injuries.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

My biggest concern with Shump is something that Mullen himself said last year. I think he likes contact a little too much. It seems like he's always looking for a defender to truck and seeks out contact instead of running to the open space. I think he needs to learn that you can be a supremely physical RB without having to run over someone every time you have the ball. Initiate contact when the defender gets to you, but don't seek out defenders to run over needlessly. If he can improve in that area, he'll be an extremely good RB and save himself a lot of future injuries.

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Agreed, but it's far better than the alternative. I'd rather teach a RB to try to avoid contact more rather than having to teach one not to be afraid of it.

Shades of Earl Campbell! Took him a couple of years in the NFL to learn you're better off "running where they ain't". Anybody know what his forty time was?

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Originally Posted by smootness

Agreed, but it's far better than the alternative. I'd rather teach a RB to try to avoid contact more rather than having to teach one not to be afraid of it.

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Totally agree about that. Much like hurt players stay hurt, soft players stay soft. It's definitely easier to teach a physical player how to be smarter about contact than try to make a soft player tough.

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

had that. Good speed, yes. Breakaway, no. Vic ran a 4.59 at the combine. Dixon ran a 4.67. That's not break away speed IMO but they produced big time for us and in the end that's all that matters.

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Vic and Boobie both had the ability to break big runs and weren't going to be caught from behind except by the freak athletes (at least at the college level). That's why I say they have 'break away' speed although in a different context (say comparing them to Norwood), I would probably say they didn't have it.

Shumpert to me looked like he would be a lot less likely to break the big runs than Vic or Boobie, but I don't remember a specific play where he had a six yard run that I thought Vic or Boobie would have taken for 25 or 30. He just didn't look that fast in the limited times I saw him. Or course there were plenty of runs where Perkins didn't look very fast, either because the play required patience to develop or he was just being to tentative, so I wouldn't bet much money on how fast I think Shump is based on the limited times I saw him run as a true freshman.