When it comes to Lebby....

[CadaverDawg]

If you're able to put the Briles connection stuff in the past, it's pretty simple....

Elko, Odom = Safe choices with higher floors and lower ceilings

Lebby = Less safe choice, lower floor and higher ceiling

If we want consistency, maybe a coach that will be here 7-10 years....go with a safer choice, one of the defensive minded guys. If we are ok with losing a guy in 3-4 years to a blue blood but possibly making a run at the SEC in the process, gotta go with an offensive minded guy that can draw in top notch QB and playmakers.
We have a better chance at landing local defensive studs with an offensive minded HC, than reeling in top QB and WR talent with a defensive HC.

Not saying Lebby will succeed...but I like gambling on a young OC more than an older DC or defensive minded coach.
Just my opinion

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Who gives us the best chance at the Top 12? That should be all that matters now. We?ve been to enough Belk Bowls.

[Quaoarsking]

I can put it in the past. I think most of us can. But can Lebby? Can he leave Briles in the past?

If yes, I can live with the hire.

[DownwardDawg]

Who gives us the best chance at the Top 12? That should be all that matters now. We?ve been to enough Belk Bowls.

Elko

[Thick]

If you're able to put the Briles connection stuff in the past, it's pretty simple....

Elko, Odom = Safe choices with higher floors and lower ceilings

Lebby = Less safe choice, lower floor and higher ceiling

If we want consistency, maybe a coach that will be here 7-10 years....go with a safer choice, one of the defensive minded guys. If we are ok with losing a guy in 3-4 years to a blue blood but possibly making a run at the SEC in the process, gotta go with an offensive minded guy that can draw in top notch QB and playmakers.
We have a better chance at landing local defensive studs with an offensive minded HC, than reeling in top QB and WR talent with a defensive HC.

Not saying Lebby will succeed...but I like gambling on a young OC more than an older DC or defensive minded coach.
Just my opinion

This^^^^^

[RockyDog]

I can put it in the past. I think most of us can. But can Lebby? Can he leave Briles in the past?

If yes, I can live with the hire.

Leaving your wife?s dad, your kids grandparent in the past is easier said than done. Really it is nobody?s business what goes on behind closed doors, in his office, etc. just don?t parade him on the sideline on ESPN. Simple

[Quaoarsking]

Leaving your wife?s dad, your kids grandparent in the past is easier said than done. Really it is nobody?s business what goes on behind closed doors, in his office, etc. just don?t parade him on the sideline on ESPN. Simple

Well yeah, I'm not saying he has to cut Art out of his personal life, but no having him on the sidelines like he did at Oklahoma this year, and no having him on campus in any official capacity.

[preachermatt83]

Very good post

[SPMT]

Well yeah, I'm not saying he has to cut Art out of his personal life, but no having him on the sidelines like he did at Oklahoma this year, and no having him on campus in any official capacity.

I did some reading up on the whole Baylor thing. What I found didn?t implicate Briles in any cover up, much less Lebby.

What I saw was media descending and the court of public opinion. Also a lot of people coming out of the woodwork many years later.

Being serious. I didn?t read anything that said Briles actually did anything wrong.

Let?s be honest, it?s typical to fire someone if something happened on their watch, but thinking logically there?s now way to police your athletes 24/7, that?s impossible.

Before the moral police descend, yes I have a daughter and yes the behavior of a handful of athletes appears to be abhorrent, but that doesn?t mean the coach or coaches eid anything wrong. Where were the police?.?

[KB21]

I can put it in the past. I think most of us can. But can Lebby? Can he leave Briles in the past?

If yes, I can live with the hire.

So, you think he should divorce his wife to leave Art Briles in the past?

[Tater]

I did some reading up on the whole Baylor thing. What I found didn?t implicate Briles in any cover up, much less Lebby.

What I saw was media descending and the court of public opinion. Also a lot of people coming out of the woodwork many years later.

Being serious. I didn?t read anything that said Briles actually did anything wrong.

Let?s be honest, it?s typical to fire someone if something happened on their watch, but thinking logically there?s now way to police your athletes 24/7, that?s impossible.

Before the moral police descend, yes I have a daughter and yes the behavior of a handful of athletes appears to be abhorrent, but that doesn?t mean the coach or coaches eid anything wrong. Where were the police?.?

"Just talked to Sa78- he said Waco pd was there - said they were going to keep it quiet - Wasn't a set up deal - I'll
get shill to ck on sibley." - Art Briles to Ian McCaw

You must be dumb if you don't know how much of king football is in Texsa and blatantly trust cops to do the right thing here.

[SPMT]

"Just talked to Sa78- he said Waco pd was there - said they were going to keep it quiet - Wasn't a set up deal - I'll
get shill to ck on sibley." - Art Briles to Ian McCaw

You must be dumb if you don't know how much of king football is in Texsa and blatantly trust cops to do the right thing here.


What does that mean?

[Quaoarsking]

I did some reading up on the whole Baylor thing. What I found didn?t implicate Briles in any cover up, much less Lebby.

What I saw was media descending and the court of public opinion. Also a lot of people coming out of the woodwork many years later.

Being serious. I didn?t read anything that said Briles actually did anything wrong.

Let?s be honest, it?s typical to fire someone if something happened on their watch, but thinking logically there?s now way to police your athletes 24/7, that?s impossible.

Before the moral police descend, yes I have a daughter and yes the behavior of a handful of athletes appears to be abhorrent, but that doesn?t mean the coach or coaches eid anything wrong. Where were the police?.?

I don't understand how you can "research" this and not see any articles about what Briles did?

https://nypost.com/2017/02/02/damning-art-briles-text-messages-reveal-his-baylor-cover-up-docs/
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18609288/art-briles-baylor-bears-assistants-buried-player-misbehavior-documents-say
https://defector.com/the-just-revealed-conversations-between-art-briles-and-baylor-staff-are-exactly-what-youd-expect
https://www.si.com/college/2023/09/12/art-briles-cant-grasp-consequences-for-his-actions-oklahoma-baylor

It's widely reported that Baylor had multiple players who raped or sexually assaulted women, and Briles, along with others in the AD, harassed and pressured these women into keeping quiet. In addition, Briles took a transfer from a Boise State player who had raped a woman up there, and sure enough he raped again in Waco. The texts that Briles sent out make it pretty clear that he was doing it all on purpose, not just a victim of bad luck and naivety.

[Coach34]

Who gives us the best chance at the Top 12? That should be all that matters now. We?ve been to enough Belk Bowls.

We arent going to be in the Top 12. If it doesnt happen in the next 5 years- will never happen. NIL and Realignment has killed us for eternity

[SPMT]

I don't understand how you can "research" this and not see any articles about what Briles did?

https://nypost.com/2017/02/02/damning-art-briles-text-messages-reveal-his-baylor-cover-up-docs/
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18609288/art-briles-baylor-bears-assistants-buried-player-misbehavior-documents-say
https://defector.com/the-just-revealed-conversations-between-art-briles-and-baylor-staff-are-exactly-what-youd-expect
https://www.si.com/college/2023/09/12/art-briles-cant-grasp-consequences-for-his-actions-oklahoma-baylor

It's widely reported that Baylor had multiple players who raped or sexually assaulted women, and Briles, along with others in the AD, harassed and pressured these women into keeping quiet. In addition, Briles took a transfer from a Boise State player who had raped a woman up there, and sure enough he raped again in Waco. The texts that Briles sent out make it pretty clear that he was doing it all on purpose, not just a victim of bad luck and naivety.

Thank you. I will read those.

I read the excerpts from the Pepper Hilton report. There was ?smoothing?
Of the typical that every university in the nations does in that report.

I am fine changing my mind and being wrong. However, I am very wary of typical media and sensationalism. So, I will read with an open but skeptical mind.

[SPMT]

We arent going to be in the Top 12. If it doesnt happen in the next 5 years- will never happen. NIL and Realignment has killed us for eternity

The confusing thing here is……what changed?

We all cheated and bought players, now that’s “legal”.
Which effectively means nothing has changed.

What’s different now than before other than people know what players are paid definitively?

If we paid X in the past and now we still pay X but open to all, what’s the difference?

Prices gone up so much we can’t make it work above board?

[msstate7]

The confusing thing here is……what changed?

We all cheated and bought players, now that’s “legal”.
Which effectively means nothing has changed.

What’s different now than before other than people know what players are paid definitively?

If we paid X in the past and now we still pay X but open to all, what’s the difference?

Prices gone up so much we can’t make it work above board?

Yeah, prices went up. We coulda had cam for 180k. Didn't kj Jefferson get like a million last year?

[Tater]

What does that mean?

One of the first texts you'll find from Art when doing any amount of research. He talked to a football player accused of rape. Waco PD said they would keep it quiet. There's such a vast amount of texts it's sickening to read all of them. That one just made the point that Waco PD was culpable, but as we all well know by now, Police have more bad apples and operate like a gang when it comes to high profile situations. Money is king.

[Maroonthirteen]

The narrative of a Defensive HC means boring, losing and Offensive HC means fun, winning......isn't 100% accurate. Stoops at UK is one example. Odom did well at MO and is doing well now at UNLV. I am sure there are 100 other examples either way. However, I would take what Stoops has built at UK today and enjoy every minute.

However, whatever coach we have coming in.....he will need players immediately. Which is why I wanted it to be Odom. I want a guy who will be here to build a program. (Odom isn't going back to MO) I don't want a guy to come in here with a few transfers and bolt as soon as another blue blood has an opening. I don't believe that is how you build a program or improve fan morale.

[BrunswickDawg]

One of the first texts you'll find from Art when doing any amount of research. He talked to a football player accused of rape. Waco PD said they would keep it quiet. There's such a vast amount of texts it's sickening to read all of them. That one just made the point that Waco PD was culpable, but as we all well know by now, Police have more bad apples and operate like a gang when it comes to high profile situations. Money is king.

While it's horrible, and I am by no means condoning it - this was also right at the beginning on Me Too - and it was SOP at many of the top athletic programs in the country. Not to mention, corporations, churches, the Olympics, the entertainment industry, and just about any organization looking to kill risk to the status quo. As a society, it was our dirty secret that women had no recourse against power in these situations. Too many were complicit, but that also doesn't make everyone evil. The treatment of and processes around these incidents has changed, and changed drastically in a short period of time for the better.

Like others have said, 4 major universities have vetted this and have been comfortable with the hire, so we aren't breaking ground here.

[CoachT14]

The narrative of a Defensive HC means boring, losing and Offensive HC means fun, winning......isn't 100% accurate. Stoops at UK is one example. Odom did well at MO and is doing well now at UNLV. I am sure there are 100 other examples either way. However, I would take what Stoops has built at UK today and enjoy every minute.

However, whatever coach we have coming in.....he will need players immediately. Which is why I wanted it to be Odom. I want a guy who will be here to build a program. (Odom isn't going back to MO) I don't want a guy to come in here with a few transfers and bolt as soon as another blue blood has an opening. I don't believe that is how you build a program or improve fan morale.

Fact: Odom went 19-19 with an NFL QB in an SEC East (10-14 in the SEC) that had a down Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee. And you expect him to come here and be successful? Some of y?all are extremely captured by the flash in the pan guys.

Maybe just maybe Barry Odom belongs at that level.

Want some more facts?
Barry Odom, a defensive head coach, has had more below average to awful defenses in his last 10 years than he?s had average or higher.

So in the last 5 years he?s being fired at an SEC school (his Alma mater mind you) and was awful at Arkansas as DC. It wasn?t until this year that he did anything actually good.

What?s more likely? That he figured things out finally or that he is winning in a league with bad talent and bad coaches and he just happens to be the best of the midgets?

His track record suggests he won?t be good at this level. He?s failed at it for 10 straight years basically. You can ignore his track record if you want. I won?t.

[CoachT14]

While it's horrible, and I am by no means condoning it - this was also right at the beginning on Me Too - and it was SOP at many of the top athletic programs in the country. Not to mention, corporations, churches, the Olympics, the entertainment industry, and just about any organization looking to kill risk to the status quo. As a society, it was our dirty secret that women had no recourse against power in these situations. Too many were complicit, but that also doesn't make everyone evil. The treatment of and processes around these incidents has changed, and changed drastically in a short period of time for the better.

Like others have said, 4 major universities have vetted this and have been comfortable with the hire, so we aren't breaking ground here.

You can?t talk to Tater logically about it. He?s made outright lies up about Lebby using hyperbole to try and get his point across.

[Pancho]

be careful or this will turn political, and we all know how touchy that will be. ew wee******

[smootness]

While it's horrible, and I am by no means condoning it - this was also right at the beginning on Me Too - and it was SOP at many of the top athletic programs in the country. Not to mention, corporations, churches, the Olympics, the entertainment industry, and just about any organization looking to kill risk to the status quo. As a society, it was our dirty secret that women had no recourse against power in these situations. Too many were complicit, but that also doesn't make everyone evil. The treatment of and processes around these incidents has changed, and changed drastically in a short period of time for the better.

Like others have said, 4 major universities have vetted this and have been comfortable with the hire, so we aren't breaking ground here.

You cannot say that because everyone was doing it, that means they are not all bad. If you are complicit in that, you are bad. It was bad enough that once it came to light, everyone unanimously agreed it was terrible and had to be changed.

[sleepy dawg]

If you're able to put the Briles connection stuff in the past, it's pretty simple....

Elko, Odom = Safe choices with higher floors and lower ceilings

Lebby = Less safe choice, lower floor and higher ceiling

If we want consistency, maybe a coach that will be here 7-10 years....go with a safer choice, one of the defensive minded guys. If we are ok with losing a guy in 3-4 years to a blue blood but possibly making a run at the SEC in the process, gotta go with an offensive minded guy that can draw in top notch QB and playmakers.
We have a better chance at landing local defensive studs with an offensive minded HC, than reeling in top QB and WR talent with a defensive HC.

Not saying Lebby will succeed...but I like gambling on a young OC more than an older DC or defensive minded coach.
Just my opinion

That's exactly the way I see it too. I'd prefer to take the risk.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The facts. Nothing else matters.

- Name the person found guilty of anything? Briles was cleared.

- She made an accusation that her boyfriend beat her in her face and her stomach. Her proof was bruises on her arms via photos that could have been due to her gymnastics training. But where are the photos of her face and ribs/stomach? There are none.

- Why did she go back to him afterwards? You see, a counselor talked about that on the stand during court.

- If she was so beaten (like she claimed), why did she go to the beach within a week? That came out in the case too. She had told her coach that she was not able to practice due to that incidence and then bolts for the beach with friends.

[Tater]

The facts. Nothing else matters.

- Name the person found guilty of anything? Briles was cleared.

- She made an accusation that her boyfriend beat her in her face and her stomach. Her proof was bruises on her arms via photos that could have been due to her gymnastics training. But where are the photos of her face and ribs/stomach? There are none.

- Why did she go back to him afterwards? You see, a counselor talked about that on the stand during court.

- If she was so beaten (like she claimed), why did she go to the beach within a week? That came out in the case too. She had told her coach that she was not able to practice due to that incidence and then bolts for the beach with friends.

I'm just letting you know two things. There's double digit women who made claims, several of them other student athletes. And the post you made is somehow your dumbest yet.

There was one case where the victim's story about coaches wasn't consistent across 8 years of testimony and so Briles was dismissed from the lawsuit but Baylor as an institution was still found culpable. There are several cases that we know settlements were made instead. Not every woman wants their name to be subject to a public trial. Especially for the most demoralizing and dehumanizing moment in their lives. This willfully sick and twisted post you made is disgusting. I look forward to never seeing another post of yours again.

[Quaoarsking]

Like others have said, 4 major universities have vetted this and have been comfortable with the hire, so we aren't breaking ground here.

Every single time someone says this, people have to be reminded that it wasn't until Lebby got to his 4th job that he put Briles onto the sideline. That's something that didn't come up in any of his 4 vettings, but will come up in his 5th. It's a bit of a red flag that maybe Lebby doesn't think that Briles really did anything all that bad.

Again, I'm willing to give Lebby a chance as long as it's crystal clear (as in fireable offense) that he doesn't pull that shit again. But the "he passed vetting 4 times so he automatically should a 5th time" argument just doesn't work when there's new information since the 4th vetting.

[Maroonthirteen]

Fact: Odom went 19-19 with an NFL QB in an SEC East (10-14 in the SEC) that had a down Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee. And you expect him to come here and be successful? Some of y?all are extremely captured by the flash in the pan guys.

Maybe just maybe Barry Odom belongs at that level.

Want some more facts?
Barry Odom, a defensive head coach, has had more below average to awful defenses in his last 10 years than he?s had average or higher.

So in the last 5 years he?s being fired at an SEC school (his Alma mater mind you) and was awful at Arkansas as DC. It wasn?t until this year that he did anything actually good.

What?s more likely? That he figured things out finally or that he is winning in a league with bad talent and bad coaches and he just happens to be the best of the midgets?

His track record suggests he won?t be good at this level. He?s failed at it for 10 straight years basically. You can ignore his track record if you want. I won?t.

When Odom and Missouri beat Florida, Florida was ranked #11. Regardless, what he did at Missouri is above their historical averages. Also as DC, he improved Memphis and Missouri defense tremendously. His Arkansas defense was up one year and down his last. However the guy has served in about every role there is on college staff since he was a GA. Lebby has not. Lebby has been an P5 OC one year. His two years at OM, Lane was calling the plays.

It's a pointless argument. Odom isn't being considered. It seems it is down to Sumrall and Lebby.

[Turfdawg67]

We arent going to be in the Top 12. If it doesnt happen in the next 5 years- will never happen. NIL and Realignment has killed us for eternity

You mean ALL those top 12 years in the past are over?!?

[BuckyIsAB****]

If art briles is coming with him it makes it better IMO. Or Kendall

[StoneDawg]

"Just talked to Sa78- he said Waco pd was there - said they were going to keep it quiet - Wasn't a set up deal - I'll
get shill to ck on sibley." - Art Briles to Ian McCaw

You must be dumb if you don't know how much of king football is in Texsa and blatantly trust cops to do the right thing here.

What does this have to do with Lebby?

[CoachT14]

I'm just letting you know two things. There's double digit women who made claims, several of them other student athletes. And the post you made is somehow your dumbest yet.

There was one case where the victim's story about coaches wasn't consistent across 8 years of testimony and so Briles was dismissed from the lawsuit but Baylor as an institution was still found culpable. There are several cases that we know settlements were made instead. Not every woman wants their name to be subject to a public trial. Especially for the most demoralizing and dehumanizing moment in their lives. This willfully sick and twisted post you made is disgusting. I look forward to never seeing another post of yours again.

Tater you seriously need help my man. To be this up in arms about something that has nothing to do with and outright lying about it while moaning on a freaking message board. Crazy behavior.

[DownwardDawg]

Every single time someone says this, people have to be reminded that it wasn't until Lebby got to his 4th job that he put Briles onto the sideline. That's something that didn't come up in any of his 4 vettings, but will come up in his 5th. It's a bit of a red flag that maybe Lebby doesn't think that Briles really did anything all that bad.

Again, I'm willing to give Lebby a chance as long as it's crystal clear (as in fireable offense) that he doesn't pull that shit again. But the "he passed vetting 4 times so he automatically should a 5th time" argument just doesn't work when there's new information since the 4th vetting.

The only thing that really concerns me about all this is that it makes Lebby seem really childish. That's not a trait we need in this rebuild time. Just pointing that out. I'll support the team regardless who the coach is. I survived Croom and Arnett, barely.

[CoachT14]

When Odom and Missouri beat Florida, Florida was ranked #11. Regardless, what he did at Missouri is above their historical averages. Also as DC, he improved Memphis and Missouri defense tremendously. His Arkansas defense was up one year and down his last. However the guy has served in about every role there is on college staff since he was a GA. Lebby has not. Lebby has been an P5 OC one year. His two years at OM, Lane was calling the plays.

It's a pointless argument. Odom isn't being considered. It seems it is down to Sumrall and Lebby.

He was not above their historical average. Pinkel played in the SEC Championship game in back to back years 2 years before Odom was hired. Come on at least be honest.

[CoachT14]

What does this have to do with Lebby?

Not a thing. Tater is having a meltdown crisis over Lebby because his father in law is Briles not because his name is Jeff Lebby. He?s running around making up shit.

[Coach34]

Yeah, prices went up. We coulda had cam for 180k. Didn't kj Jefferson get like a million last year?

This. Prices have skyrocketed. Mississippi spent 400K for a back-up QB. We got Wright for $10 and some M&M's

[SPMT]

This. Prices have skyrocketed. Mississippi spent 400K for a back-up QB. We got Wright for $10 and some M&M's

That?s what I feared. Was much better when things were under the table.

[Maverick91]

Tater you seriously need help my man. To be this up in arms about something that has nothing to do with and outright lying about it while moaning on a freaking message board. Crazy behavior.

Ehhh it has everything to do with a moral line that you don't want to cross. If at the end of the day we end up hiring Lebby I do trust our old school Bible Belt moral high ground hiring process to say that we did our vetting and trust Lebby had NOTHING to do with anything that went on at Baylor. Their first job is to protect and not willfully put the students in danger, I'm going to have to trust that is a top priority.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I'm just letting you know two things. There's double digit women who made claims, several of them other student athletes. And the post you made is somehow your dumbest yet.

There was one case where the victim's story about coaches wasn't consistent across 8 years of testimony and so Briles was dismissed from the lawsuit but Baylor as an institution was still found culpable. There are several cases that we know settlements were made instead. Not every woman wants their name to be subject to a public trial. Especially for the most demoralizing and dehumanizing moment in their lives. This willfully sick and twisted post you made is disgusting. I look forward to never seeing another post of yours again.

Oh hell no! Name the case where Briles or Lebby was found negligent. Name it or shut the hell up! The one proven case of rape, Briles dismissed him in 4 days after the event happened. Now if you want to argue Baylor needed a better system within the university, fine. But you don't get to put that on innocent people.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Every single time someone says this, people have to be reminded that it wasn't until Lebby got to his 4th job that he put Briles onto the sideline. That's something that didn't come up in any of his 4 vettings, but will come up in his 5th. It's a bit of a red flag that maybe Lebby doesn't think that Briles really did anything all that bad.

Again, I'm willing to give Lebby a chance as long as it's crystal clear (as in fireable offense) that he doesn't pull that shit again. But the "he passed vetting 4 times so he automatically should a 5th time" argument just doesn't work when there's new information since the 4th vetting.

There is no new information. If Art Briles was found not negligent, who the hell are we to say he was guilty of that?

[SPMT]

I'm just letting you know two things. There's double digit women who made claims, several of them other student athletes. And the post you made is somehow your dumbest yet.

There was one case where the victim's story about coaches wasn't consistent across 8 years of testimony and so Briles was dismissed from the lawsuit but Baylor as an institution was still found culpable. There are several cases that we know settlements were made instead. Not every woman wants their name to be subject to a public trial. Especially for the most demoralizing and dehumanizing moment in their lives. This willfully sick and twisted post you made is disgusting. I look forward to never seeing another post of yours again.


I’m still reading articles but haven’t read anything yet that shows Briles covered anything up. So far, it looks like he should have been more heavy handed with kicking players off, but that also doesn’t do anything for reshaping them which his texts clearly show he was trying to do. 99% of the incidents in the texts, from what I’ve read, were weed and booze related.

A person telling Briles that the Waco pd would “keep it quiet” isn’t him covering anything up. That’s not the same thing. In fact that’s what the pd should do. Make an arrest where warranted and let the judicial system take its course. They shouldn’t open their mouths at all about anyone arrested, football player or not.

He should’ve been more heavy handed with dismissals. It’s not his right or duty to have a press conference regarding allegations that are not proven to be legitimate at the time they occurred and when he was told of the allegations. You also don’t just kick someone off a team or out of school based on allegations. You get facts and then make the decision.

[preachermatt83]

I say for HIS OWN benefit, to keep him from continuing to look insane, as well as possibly avoiding a stroke, how bout giving tater a short vacation from the board. I have no problem listening to his rambling , but I’d sure hate for him to have a complete nervous breakdown on a message board.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I’m still reading articles but haven’t read anything yet that shows Briles covered anything up. So far, it looks like he should have been more heavy handed with kicking players off, but that also doesn’t do anything for reshaping them which his texts clearly show he was trying to do. 99% of the incidents in the texts, from what I’ve read, were weed and booze related.

A person telling Briles that the Waco pd would “keep it quiet” isn’t him covering anything up. That’s not the same thing. In fact that’s what the pd should do. Make an arrest where warranted and let the judicial system take its course. They shouldn’t open their mouths at all about anyone arrested, football player or not.

He should’ve been more heavy handed with dismissals. It’s not his right or duty to have a press conference regarding allegations that are not proven to be legitimate at the time they occurred and when he was told of the allegations. You also don’t just kick someone off a team or out of school based on allegations. You get facts and then make the decision.

Truth!

[Maroonthirteen]

He was not above their historical average. Pinkel played in the SEC Championship game in back to back years 2 years before Odom was hired. Come on at least be honest.

Playing in the SECCG is not their historical average.

I'm not saying Odom is some great coach. However he is a sitting HC that actually wants our job. No other sitting HC with a comparable resume seems to want our job.

But..... enjoy the guy with a thin resume. Selmon did OU a solid. State gets an "offensive coach". We shall see how it works out. Hopefully it does for the good.

[CoachT14]

Playing in the SECCG is not their historical average.

I'm not saying Odom is some great coach. However he is a sitting HC that actually wants our job. No other sitting HC with a comparable resume seems to want our job.

But..... enjoy the guy with a thin resume. Selmon did OU a solid. State gets an "offensive coach". We shall see how it works out. Hopefully it does for the good.

The dude has been a P5 OC for 4 years. The same as Mullen.

[BrunswickDawg]

Every single time someone says this, people have to be reminded that it wasn't until Lebby got to his 4th job that he put Briles onto the sideline. That's something that didn't come up in any of his 4 vettings, but will come up in his 5th. It's a bit of a red flag that maybe Lebby doesn't think that Briles really did anything all that bad.

Again, I'm willing to give Lebby a chance as long as it's crystal clear (as in fireable offense) that he doesn't pull that shit again. But the "he passed vetting 4 times so he automatically should a 5th time" argument just doesn't work when there's new information since the 4th vetting.

The whole sideline uproar is dumb. He wasn't hanging out during the game giving Lebby pointers. It was well after the game when 95% of the people were gone and Briles came down with Lebby's entire family and other coaches families. I honestly wouldn't doubt that it had happened before - or that he'd visited offices or locker rooms after games - but this time someone happened to post a picture on Twitter so "people" had to make a thing of it.

[BlackSailsDawg]

The whole sideline uproar is dumb. He wasn't hanging out during the game giving Lebby pointers. It was well after the game when 95% of the people were gone and Briles came down with Lebby's entire family and other coaches families. I honestly wouldn't doubt that it had happened before - or that he'd visited offices or locker rooms after games - but this time someone happened to post a picture on Twitter so "people" had to make a thing of it.

Art went to Ark when KB was there. He's not been found negligent nor guilty of anything.

[DownwardDawg]

I say for HIS OWN benefit, to keep him from continuing to look insane, as well as possibly avoiding a stroke, how bout giving tater a short vacation from the board. I have no problem listening to his rambling , but I’d sure hate for him to have a complete nervous breakdown on a message board.

To be fair, if you gave Tater a timeout, you have to give a certain Lebby Cult leader a timeout also.

[DownwardDawg]

I've been watching some Lebby press interviews. He comes across as likable and well spoken. Much better than Arnett. He sounds good in interviews.

[Turfdawg67]

I say for HIS OWN benefit, to keep him from continuing to look insane, as well as possibly avoiding a stroke, how bout giving tater a short vacation from the board. I have no problem listening to his rambling , but I’d sure hate for him to have a complete nervous breakdown on a message board.

Whenever I think about attending church again, thinking maybe it's not full of hypocrisy still, I just have to look at your posts. If you are a typical "preacher" I'll continue to have my own relationship with the Lord and stay far away from religion.

[DownwardDawg]

Whenever I think about attending church again, thinking maybe it's not full of hypocrisy still, I just have to look at your posts. If you are a typical "preacher" I'll continue to have my own relationship with the Lord and stay far away from religion.

My wife and I watch Charles Stanley and Billy Graham sermons on Sundays. We like this situation much better.

[Extendedcab]

Whenever I think about attending church again, thinking maybe it's not full of hypocrisy still, I just have to look at your posts. If you are a typical "preacher" I'll continue to have my own relationship with the Lord and stay far away from religion.

There will always be hypocrites in the church, there always has been and there always will be. That is not a valid reason to not attend church since scripture tells that:

[Proverbs] As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
[Hebrews] not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another?and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

I'm sorry you are having this issue. I hope you find a good Bible believing church where you can grow spiritually.

In my neighborhood, we have a group of husbands that meet once a week for an hour of Bible study, maybe you can find/create a group like that if "church" in general upsets you.

[mo7888]

To be fair, if you gave Tater a timeout, you have to give a certain Lebby Cult leader a timeout also.

Just let em both keep going.... better to let it out than keep it bottled up.... we're mostly adults here... even if we don't always act like it..

[mo7888]

There will always be hypocrites in the church, there always has been and there always will be. That is not a valid reason to not attend church since scripture tells that:

[Proverbs] As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
[Hebrews] not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another?and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

I'm sorry you are having this issue. I hope you find a good Bible believing church where you can grow spiritually.

In my neighborhood, we have a group of husbands that meet once a week for an hour of Bible study, maybe you can find/create a group like that if "church" in general upsets you.

The church is full of sinners...

I fit in perfectly...

[Tater]

To be fair, if you gave Tater a timeout, you have to give a certain Lebby Cult leader a timeout also.

No sense in doing the bans. This conversation has a shelf life.

Either we hire Lebby and several people including myself stop supporting State until (in this timeline hopefully) Selmon is at OU in 3 years as AD, Lebby is an NFL HC having left after taking State to a Natty. Or whatever circumstance rids State of filth.

Or we don't hire Lebby and the conversation ends.

No one on this board is threatening anyone. We're arguing passionately and those of us who knows to use the ignore feature are utilizing it appropriately. Some of us are saying disgusting opinions that we hold and now we know what people value, but banning them doesn't change those opinions. The only way is through repeated discussion.

I point to SPMT as someone that was initially in the Lebby camp actually having positive discourse and attempted research.

[Tater]

I’m still reading articles but haven’t read anything yet that shows Briles covered anything up. So far, it looks like he should have been more heavy handed with kicking players off, but that also doesn’t do anything for reshaping them which his texts clearly show he was trying to do. 99% of the incidents in the texts, from what I’ve read, were weed and booze related.

A person telling Briles that the Waco pd would “keep it quiet” isn’t him covering anything up. That’s not the same thing. In fact that’s what the pd should do. Make an arrest where warranted and let the judicial system take its course. They shouldn’t open their mouths at all about anyone arrested, football player or not.

He should’ve been more heavy handed with dismissals. It’s not his right or duty to have a press conference regarding allegations that are not proven to be legitimate at the time they occurred and when he was told of the allegations. You also don’t just kick someone off a team or out of school based on allegations. You get facts and then make the decision.

I think where we differ here is that while 1 allegation against one player in 1 year can be dismissed as a rogue incident. And 2 allegations against 2 players in 2 different years can be a coincedence. 15+ allegations against 15+ players across 4+ years is a clear either pattern of encouragement at worst or lack of institutional control at best. One of the damning quotes on Art's leadership qualities and a thing that applies culpability down the line is "I delegated down and I shouldn't have. And I had a system where I was the last to know, and I should have been the first to know.

That quote coupled with Jeff Lebby's adamant stance that Art did nothing wrong. (Meaning Art was right to delegate down, and Jeff was in that group that was delegated down to, lest we forget one of the allegation was against a RB that Lebby coached.)

Further, there's this from the initial 2016 WSJ story: "In at least one of the cases, regents said, Briles knew about the complaint but didn't alert police or the proper Baylor officials." That's the same reason Joe Paterno's
statue was taken down at Penn State.

I think the Deshaun Watson case here is a good example to review. And I want everyone to personally ask themselves honestly this set of questions. Remember, you are not a court of law. You can answer that you want to defer to the court of law, but you are a person that can have an opinion.

How many Rape Allegations or Settlements Outside of Courtdoes it take for you to not want to be associated with a person. Whether that's as your friend, your football coach, your QB? Not a conviction. Either ongoing investigation or something settled outside of court.

Is it 1? 2? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? 1000?

For me, It's 2. One time can be spite and I'm willing to let it play out. Two separate and no common agenda? Yea it's probably on you. 20+? I'm supposed to believe it's a Witch Hunt? L O ****ing L. That's my thoughts. Think the exercise through. You don't have to answer to the board. But do answer it for yourself.

[DownwardDawg]

No sense in doing the bans. This conversation has a shelf life.

Either we hire Lebby and several people including myself stop supporting State until (in this timeline hopefully) Selmon is at OU in 3 years as AD, Lebby is an NFL HC having left after taking State to a Natty. Or whatever circumstance rids State of filth.

Or we don't hire Lebby and the conversation ends.

No one on this board is threatening anyone. We're arguing passionately and those of us who knows to use the ignore feature are utilizing it appropriately. Some of us are saying disgusting opinions that we hold and now we know what people value, but banning them doesn't change those opinions. The only way is through repeated discussion.

I point to SPMT as someone that was initially in the Lebby camp actually having positive discourse and attempted research.
I'm certainly not advocating bans. I was "just sayin"

[Tater]

I'm certainly not advocating bans. I was "just sayin"

Yea, I was definitely replying more to the guy you replied to and expanding upon your response.

[CadaverDawg]

Me opening this thread to see Tater continuing the same tired back and forth....

We get it...hire Lebby, you're out. Got it.

https://media.tenor.com/wBCnw42BwnYAAAAC/simpsons-in-and-out.gif

[Coursesuper]

I think where we differ here is that while 1 allegation against one player in 1 year can be dismissed as a rogue incident. And 2 allegations against 2 players in 2 different years can be a coincedence. 15+ allegations against 15+ players across 4+ years is a clear either pattern of encouragement at worst or lack of institutional control at best. One of the damning quotes on Art's leadership qualities and a thing that applies culpability down the line is "I delegated down and I shouldn't have. And I had a system where I was the last to know, and I should have been the first to know.

That quote coupled with Jeff Lebby's adamant stance that Art did nothing wrong. (Meaning Art was right to delegate down, and Jeff was in that group that was delegated down to, lest we forget one of the allegation was against a RB that Lebby coached.)

Further, there's this from the initial 2016 WSJ story: "In at least one of the cases, regents said, Briles knew about the complaint but didn't alert police or the proper Baylor officials." That's the same reason Joe Paterno's
statue was taken down at Penn State.

I think the Deshaun Watson case here is a good example to review. And I want everyone to personally ask themselves honestly this set of questions. Remember, you are not a court of law. You can answer that you want to defer to the court of law, but you are a person that can have an opinion.

How many Rape Allegations or Settlements Outside of Courtdoes it take for you to not want to be associated with a person. Whether that's as your friend, your football coach, your QB? Not a conviction. Either ongoing investigation or something settled outside of court.

Is it 1? 2? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? 1000?

For me, It's 2. One time can be spite and I'm willing to let it play out. Two separate and no common agenda? Yea it's probably on you. 20+? I'm supposed to believe it's a Witch Hunt? L O ****ing L. That's my thoughts. Think the exercise through. You don't have to answer to the board. But do answer it for yourself.

What a diatribe of total bullshit. Like you said answer to yourself and save the rest of us from this. We don’t care about your moral reservations. If the guy is the hire just go away and continue to love the Missitppy Tate way that you cherish so much.

[MBDawg601]

I'm starting to feel like Tater is fully on board with this cancel culture BS. Guy hasn't been charged with ANYTHING. Yet still wants the guy and anyone associated with him to be cast away to the gates of hell.

[CoachT14]

I'm starting to feel like Tater is fully on board with this cancel culture BS. Guy hasn't been charged with ANYTHING. Yet still wants the guy and anyone associated with him to be cast away to the gates of hell.

Tater is off his rocker.

[BlackSailsDawg]

No sense in doing the bans. This conversation has a shelf life.

Either we hire Lebby and several people including myself stop supporting State until (in this timeline hopefully) Selmon is at OU in 3 years as AD, Lebby is an NFL HC having left after taking State to a Natty. Or whatever circumstance rids State of filth.

Or we don't hire Lebby and the conversation ends.

No one on this board is threatening anyone. We're arguing passionately and those of us who knows to use the ignore feature are utilizing it appropriately. Some of us are saying disgusting opinions that we hold and now we know what people value, but banning them doesn't change those opinions. The only way is through repeated discussion.

I point to SPMT as someone that was initially in the Lebby camp actually having positive discourse and attempted research.

No you are just a hypocrite. Bye Bye!