So did Elijah Staley turn down UCLA? Was that his tweet?

[Harrydawg]

Nm

[Coach34]

coachcamp42 37m
WOW!! @ES14_ just turned down UCLA.. FYI State fans.. That was his dream school! Elijah Staley = 100% Bulldawg!!! #HailState
Retweeted by Elijah Staley



b-b-b-b-but Merlinzz cant croot????

[ShotgunDawg]

coachcamp42 37m
WOW!! @ES14_ just turned down UCLA.. FYI State fans.. That was his dream school! Elijah Staley = 100% Bulldawg!!! #HailState
Retweeted by Elijah Staley



b-b-b-b-but Merlinzz cant croot????

And according to 247, Staley is only an 80 rated players. What a farce

[Political Hack]

that's awesome. Great kid who's showing to be a man of his word.

That kid of character and his skill set will be killer under CDM.

[Coach34]

Staley is gonna challenge 14 for back-up reps- which will make them both better. We can redshirt the option QB.

We will have chances to play all 3 QB's next year and give Dakota some rest for the big games. Best group of QB's we will have ever had

[ShotgunDawg]

Staley is gonna challenge 14 for back-up reps- which will make them both better. We can redshirt the option QB.

We will have chances to play all 3 QB's next year and give Dakota some rest for the big games. Best group of QB's we will have ever had

I completely understand your position and it's reasonable, but I pesonally wouldn't blow either of the freshmen's redshirt unless they either beat out Williams for the number 2 spot or Dak gets hurt.

I would let Fitzgerald and Staley duke it out, with the loser changing positions. Would love to see Fitz as a tight end.

What's the point of blowing one of their reshirts if they aren't the number 2 QB and will thus get very very limited snaps. In blowouts, we need the extra snaps going to our number 2 QB.

Do you want to play our number 2 QB like 3 series and take them out to put in our number 3 QB?

I would dress one of them out, but not burn the red shirt unless Dak gets hurt.

[starkvegasdawg]

And think we could have had cord sandberg too if he had not decided to go flounder in the doldrums of minor league baseball. That .207 BA with 36 k's in 48 games is not going to get you a rapid ascent to the show.

[Coach34]

Gonna have to disagree Shotgun- both these guys are coming in to play QB. Play one a little and RS the other one. That keeps them out of the same year. And the way we run QB's and the injuries we have had- makes perfect sense to do so.

In 2015:

Dak- Sr
Williams- Jr
Staley- Soph
Fitzgerald- R-Fr

Thats the balance you want at the QB position

[Political Hack]

And think we could have had cord sandberg too if he had not decided to go flounder in the doldrums of minor league baseball. That .207 BA with 36 k's in 48 games is not going to get you a rapid ascent to the show.

his contract should be up right around the time Elijah enters the draft.

[mic]

Gonna have to disagree Shotgun- both these guys are coming in to play QB. Play one a little and RS the other one. That keeps them out of the same year. And the way we run QB's and the injuries we have had- makes perfect sense to do so.

In 2015:

Dak- Sr
Williams- Jr
Staley- Soph
Fitzgerald- R-Fr

Thats the balance you want at the QB position

with Nick being here this spring it may result in ES red shirting his frosh year unless he does get here and competes and possibly wins that #2 spot.. Win -Win either way for us

[CadaverDawg]

Gonna have to disagree Shotgun- both these guys are coming in to play QB. Play one a little and RS the other one. That keeps them out of the same year. And the way we run QB's and the injuries we have had- makes perfect sense to do so.

In 2015:

Dak- Sr
Williams- Jr
Staley- Soph
Fitzgerald- R-Fr

Thats the balance you want at the QB position

We could always redshirt Elijah so he will have more years of starting QB in the future, and not redshirt Fitz in year 1. But allow Fitz to take some reps as a TE or WR as a freshman to see what he can do. May find out that he is a Gronkowski, and then Elijah will have a big target to throw to for the next few years. Just a thought.

Especially with 2015 being a decent QB class in the state.

Either way I completely agree with you that we shouldn't redshirt both of them. Keep the balance. Since none of them are big time passing stats guys, I think many of our fans are failing to see the quality we are building at the QB position. We are truly about to be the best at QB that we've ever been at one time. And people that know college football will all agree that big time success typically begins and ends at the QB position.

[engie]

Sandberg will either make the show in 4 years -- or most likely be done and hopefully headed back to MSU.

I know his initial NLI is binding to us -- but I'm not sure how that will work if he chooses to walk on somewhere -- with the Phillies footing the bill as was agreed upon in his contract. I'd like to think he would still end up at MSU, but I'd think it is far from a sure thing...

[starkvegasdawg]

Sandberg will either make the show in 4 years -- or most likely be done and hopefully headed back to MSU.

I know his initial NLI is binding to us -- but I'm not sure how that will work if he chooses to walk on somewhere -- with the Phillies footing the bill as was agreed upon in his contract. I'd like to think he would still end up at MSU, but I'd think it is far from a sure thing...
I know this has been done before so it is possible, but how do those that have done it it want to get around having signed with an agent? Is there a clause that says they are only represented in baseball? Sure if he tried to come here Bracky wound only sharpens him two seasons at most.

[ShotgunDawg]

Gonna have to disagree Shotgun- both these guys are coming in to play QB. Play one a little and RS the other one. That keeps them out of the same year. And the way we run QB's and the injuries we have had- makes perfect sense to do so.

In 2015:

Dak- Sr
Williams- Jr
Staley- Soph
Fitzgerald- R-Fr

Thats the balance you want at the QB position

I understand what your saying, but it is virtually impossible to get 3 healthy QBs enough reps to justify burning a redshirt on the 3rd QB. It looks good on paper to have them a year apart, but do you really want to burn one of their redshirts so they can get 15 snaps at QB?

Unless one of them beats out Williams for the number 2 spot and thus gets significant snaps, I don't see the point in throwing away one of their years in the name of making sure the QBs are a year apart.

If Williams is the backup, he needs to the lion's share of garbage time snaps in case Dak gets hurt.

Where is the playing time for the 3rd QB and how many snaps does he need to get to justify burning a redshirt?

Again, it's my opinion that the QB that wins the 3rd job should travel with the team, but maintain their redshirt unless Dak gets hurt and/or they beat Williams out for the backup role.

I see no point in burning a player's redshirt unless it helps the team to do so, and, if Dak doesn't get hurt and Williams maintains the backup role, I see no way that 3rd QB helps the team.

[engie]

I know this has been done before so it is possible, but how do those that have done it it want to get around having signed with an agent? Is there a clause that says they are only represented in baseball? Sure if he tried to come here Bracky wound only sharpens him two seasons at most.

By signing with a baseball agent, he is considered a baseball professional and is thus ineligible to ever compete in baseball at the collegiate level. This has zero effect on football eligibility...

Bracky will be long, long gone before Sandberg comes back. Changes are going to be made in compliance in the near future, whether they are announced to the public or not. If you think about it, we would take a big PR hit if we announced his ouster while on current probation. He will be the figurehead of compliance at least through the end of probation in the summer of 2015 -- but I don't expect him to actually retain any power for that long -- if that makes sense?

[MaroonState]

I completely understand your position and it's reasonable, but I pesonally wouldn't blow either of the freshmen's redshirt unless they either beat out Williams for the number 2 spot or Dak gets hurt.

I would let Fitzgerald and Staley duke it out, with the loser changing positions. Would love to see Fitz as a tight end.

What's the point of blowing one of their reshirts if they aren't the number 2 QB and will thus get very very limited snaps. In blowouts, we need the extra snaps going to our number 2 QB.

Do you want to play our number 2 QB like 3 series and take them out to put in our number 3 QB?

I would dress one of them out, but not burn the red shirt unless Dak gets hurt.

So you are saying we shouldn't have played Williams earlier in the season and let his first live snaps come either against Bama or om? I think I will take the getting three QBs ready and playing option.

[ShotgunDawg]

So you are saying we shouldn't have played Williams earlier in the season and let his first live snaps come either against Bama or om? I think I will take the getting three QBs ready and playing option.

Williams played because Tyler was injured. He would've never gotten those snaps if both Tyler and Dak were healthy.

[Dawg61]

Could RS Williams and let Staley or Fitz be the backup. Just to throw a curveball into this topic. I still think we should sign the EMCC QB too.

[MaroonState]

Williams played because Tyler was injured. He would've never gotten those snaps if both Tyler and Dak were healthy.

He may not have gotten those snaps, we will never know. Mullen could have tried to ride Dak all the way until Tyler was cleared to play again but he didn't choose to preserve the redshirt. He chose to get that third QB ready which in hindsight turned out to be the right call. One of the newcomers needs to play next year and one needs to be redshirted. QB takes a pounding in our offense. Plus the fluke injury can still happen (Daks turf toe that caused him to miss spring training last year). Also, we may sign a QB next year thats all world that causes one or both of these guys to switch positions/sports. Play one and redshirt one and lets keep the classes balanced and continue with this train rolling down hill.

[smootness]

Could RS Williams and let Staley or Fitz be the backup. Just to throw a curveball into this topic. I still think we should sign the EMCC QB too.

That doesn't solve the problem of having multiple QBs in the same class, though. That would make both Williams and whoever doesn't redshirt sophomores in 2015. What we could do is allow the more ready freshman QB to get some snaps and then redshirt later down the road if it's feasible and we need it. It's what UGA did with Hutson Mason, and he will now more than likely be their starter next year as a rsSr.

It's not an easy decision, but I would be in favor of not playing either until we felt like we really needed to. I just don't see the point in playing a guy a couple of snaps and waste an entire year just so we can say both of our QBs aren't in the same class. What does that really accomplish?

Let's say Staley is more ready, even given that he won't be in until the summer...so we play him a few garbage snaps against UT-Martin so that we can burn his redshirt. Then in 2017, Staley a senior, and Fitzgerald a junior. Does that really help us that Staley would graduate a year before Fitzgerald? Ok, so we may have 2 QBs in the same class and lose them at the same time...so? We wouldn't be losing them sooner than we otherwise would if we didn't redshirt one. I guess I don't see the real upside of having QBs spaced out, if it means you're actually losing a year on one of them. I can understand redshirting to create space, and in the case of someone like Shumpert who shouldn't be here more than 4 years anyway if he's good enough, but explain to me the value of losing a year of Elijah Staley just so that we are forced to start Fitzgerald the following year.

[Coach 57]

Guys I have been saying from the jump that Staley is the real deal! You better listen. This kid is coming in and plans on pushing not only D.Will but even Dak. Now I know that Dak will keep his job, but I'm info you this kid is really good and has high expectations.

[smootness]

Guys I have been saying from the jump that Staley is the real deal! You better listen. This kid is coming in and plans on pushing not only D.Will but even Dak. Now I know that Dak will keep his job, but I'm info you this kid is really good and has high expectations.

That's great to hear. I like everything I've seen from him. The crazy thing is that we see what this offense can do with a big, physical runner at QB, and Dak is 6'2". Staley is 6'7", so taller than Cam Newton; if he can really add some weight and muscle, which I expect him to, it could get crazy up in herr.

[Political Hack]

agree 57. I can't see him not taking snaps next year unless he decides a possible 5th year is more valuable than a true freshman year. That said, I can't begin to imagine him sticking around for 5 years before entering the draft. Better play him while he's here.

[ShotgunDawg]

Fellas, you don't blow a redshirt for a 3rd string QB to get 15 snaps during the season.

I am all for blowing one of their redshirts IF Dak or Williams gets hurt AND/OR Staley or Fitz beats out Williams or Dak

If they are the true 3rd string QB, they should redshirt. It's not fair to the kid and doesn't help the team to blow a 3rd string QB's redshirt if there isn't enough game time to play them.

The 2nd string/backup QB needs the garbage time snaps. You don't take away snaps from the backup QB just so you can play a 3rd string freshman QB and his redshirt. That's ludicrous and is terrible roster management.

It makes no sense, under any circumstance, to blow someone redshirt for the hell of it. Just kick them off the team after their 3rd year if you don't want to keep them around.

If you want to blow Fitz's or Williams' redshirt, please answer this question:

If Fitz/Staley is the 3rd QB, how do you get them playing time? Where do their snaps come from?

[Dawg61]

Ideally you want only one QB per class to make it easier on yourself for future recruiting. This last year has shown the importance of having 3 QBs ready to play.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ideally you want only one QB per class to make it easier on yourself for future recruiting. This last year has shown the importance of having 3 QBs ready to play.

So you just want to blow a QB's redshirt for the hell of it? just so he can get 10 snaps?

If Dak and Williams stay healthy, where is the playing time in a 60 minute football game, for the 3rd string QB to get snaps?

There isn't any, without significantly taking away snaps from the 2nd string QB which would be retarded.

Stop looking at a piece of paper, and the classes line up, and start looking at the logistics and reality of the situation. One will change positions down the road anyway, so this whole problem will solve itself.

[Barking 13]

I think I'll just leave it up to the coaches.. I'm thankful these young men are fully committed to State...

[Dawg61]

Williams got more than 10 snaps this year. He's the 3rd QB and now is the 2nd QB. By your logic we wouldn't have burned his RS till the Arkansas game. That's why you burn it early in the season. You also want to create some forced turnover so you don't end up with 3 QB's all graduating in the same season and ****ing yourself in recruiting when they leave. I think we are seeing some of these issues at HB right now. Milton and Griffin will use up their eligibility soon and we got very little on the field production from them. They should of been moved to FB/TE/LB/FS. Stupid to waste talented athletes like them.

[smootness]

Ideally you want only one QB per class to make it easier on yourself for future recruiting. This last year has shown the importance of having 3 QBs ready to play.

I agree, but the issue will work itself out. I can pretty much guarantee you that if there are 2 QBs in the same class, the one who is second on the depth chart will either change positions or transfer. I don't think the answer to, 'We don't want 2 QBs in the same class' is to waste a year on one of them, especially if it's the better one.

[ShotgunDawg]

Williams got more than 10 snaps this year. He's the 3rd QB and now is the 2nd QB. By your logic we wouldn't have burned his RS till the Arkansas game. That's why you burn it early in the season. You also want to create some forced turnover so you don't end up with 3 QB's all graduating in the same season and ****ing yourself in recruiting when they leave. I think we are seeing some of these issues at HB right now. Milton and Griffin will use up their eligibility soon and we got very little on the field production from them. They should of been moved to FB/TE/LB/FS. Stupid to waste talented athletes like them.

Not at all, Williams played QB early in the season because Tyler was out with a concussion. I'm all for blowing redshirts if a player becomes your #2 QB because he has to get ready.

If Dak gets hurt, we damn well better blow the redshirt of one of the freshmen, but if he doesn't get hurt, it would be dumb to.

There isn't enough time in a game to give 3 QBs significant snaps.

My logic is very sound, but your not reading what I'm saying.

[Political Hack]

Shotgun, you know why we didn't redshirt Nick, Quay, and Shump?

It's because we know there's no way in hell they'll be here in five years. Shump will go pro after 3 or 4. Nice and quay too, or they'll wash out. One or the other.

Elijah is too talented to play college ball for 5 years. If he is on his projected path and is our clear cut #1 his third year on campus he'll start two years and enter the draft. So, you're more likely to get valuable snaps out of him this year than you are his 5th year Sr season.

we've treated lesser talents that way at other positions. This will be the first time we get to see how CDM treats this situation with the QB spot. It'll be interesting, but I don't expect Dan to risk wasting a year with him.

[Political Hack]

ETA: He did it with Tebow even when they had Chris Leak.

and Elijah will beat out Williams.

[Coach34]

Could RS Williams and let Staley or Fitz be the backup. Just to throw a curveball into this topic. I still think we should sign the EMCC QB too.

Damn Bear Bryant- how many scholarships do you think we have available?

[smootness]

It will be interesting, and it is definitely different at QB.

Aaron Murray has been at UGA for 5 years now. It's very tough to say that a certain QB is too good to stay 5 years in college. Plus, at other positions, particularly RB, it's easier to recruit a kid and have him step in and immediately contribute. So even if a guy doesn't pan out quite like you thought and you lose him a year before you had to because you didn't redshirt him, it's easier to go ahead and bring in a new guy anyway. At QB, you definitely want more experience there if you can get it.

Jameis Winston was the #1 QB recruit in the country, and he redshirted last year. It won't matter for him in the end, but you just never know how long it will take somebody to 'get it' at QB, so it makes sense to redshirt them if you can, especially if you think they're 'the guy'.

[smootness]

and Elijah will beat out Williams.

Now I do think this is very possible. And in that case, yes, we shouldn't worry about the redshirt, and it will make the decision easier because we do have another guy behind him.

But ideally, I want to redshirt QBs more than any other position, along with the OL.

[Coach34]

It's not an easy decision, but I would be in favor of not playing either until we felt like we really needed to. I just don't see the point in playing a guy a couple of snaps and waste an entire year just so we can say both of our QBs aren't in the same class. What does that really accomplish?
.

A) It keeps you from having two QB's in the same class- and thusly leaving a big hole at that position when they both graduate. You're only going to keep 4 QB's on the roster- and losing 2 at once is a big blow

B) Having them in different classes also lessens the chance of the loser of the QB battle from transferring out.

[ShotgunDawg]

Shotgun, you know why we didn't redshirt Nick, Quay, and Shump?

It's because we know there's no way in hell they'll be here in five years. Shump will go pro after 3 or 4. Nice and quay too, or they'll wash out. One or the other.

Elijah is too talented to play college ball for 5 years. If he is on his projected path and is our clear cut #1 his third year on campus he'll start two years and enter the draft. So, you're more likely to get valuable snaps out of him this year than you are his 5th year Sr season.

we've treated lesser talents that way at other positions. This will be the first time we get to see how CDM treats this situation with the QB spot. It'll be interesting, but I don't expect Dan to risk wasting a year with him.

Respect you opinion Hack, but I'm gonna disagree with your entire post.

No chance at this point that our coaches have any clue weather not whether or not any these players will leave early. You could have a point with Quay, but Shumpert lacks the speed to leave early, at this time, and Staley is still very raw and thus impossible to predict.

Furthermore, comparing d-lineman and running backs to QBs is a apples to oranges comparison.

D-linemen rotate in and out of the game on a play by play basis, and, since you need 6-8 D-lineman and can easily get all of them playing time, blowing a d-lineman's reshirt is perfectly fine with me.

Running backs can rotate in and out, but also provide a ton of value on special teams. Shumpert played some running back this year, was the full back on Robinson's TD in the Egg Bowl, and almost blocked a punt in the Egg Bowl as well. RBs are very versatile.

QBs however don't play unless you take away snaps from one of the other QBs. Simply, there isn't enough time in the game to get 3 healthy QBs significant snaps and justify blowing the 3rd QB's redshirt.

[Political Hack]

shotgun, that wasn't my opinion. it was fact.

[ShotgunDawg]

A) It keeps you from having two QB's in the same class- and thusly leaving a big hole at that position when they both graduate. You're only going to keep 4 QB's on the roster- and losing 2 at once is a big blow

B) Having them in different classes also lessens the chance of the loser of the QB battle from transferring out.

Coach,

this is irrelevant, and in no way justifies throwing away a QB's entire redshirt year.

This will have no basis on the decision.

If Dak doesn't get hurt, and Williams is the 2nd string QB, where is the playing time?

If you want to blow a redshirt, just so they are a class apart, then we shouldn't be signing 2 QBs this year. We should just sign 1 and then sign another next year.

Mullen won't blow a redshirt so a freshman QB can get 10-15 snaps. The playing time isn't there.

[ShotgunDawg]

shotgun, that wasn't my opinion. it was fact.

Wow, then somebody lied to you or they have no idea how to evaluate talent.

Quay is the only one of those 3 players that you can conceivably say with a straight face has any shot, at this point, of going pro early.

[Coach34]

Coach,

this is irrelevant, and in no way justifies throwing away a QB's entire redshirt year.

This will have no basis on the decision.

If Dak doesn't get hurt, and Williams is the 2nd string QB, where is the playing time?

If you want to blow a redshirt, just so they are a class apart, then we shouldn't be signing 2 QBs this year. We should just sign 1 and then sign another next year.

Mullen won't blow a redshirt so a freshman QB can get 10-15 snaps. The playing time isn't there.

We have to have sign 2 QB's- we only have 2 on the roster. We have no choice.

The 3rd QB wont play much- but he will get more reps in practice everyday- while the 4th gets less and works scout team. That's a big deal.

You dont want to two QB's in the same class- it's not rocket surgery

[Political Hack]

what? He's the least likely of the three.

There's one guy on our team right now who can block nick james, and his name isn't Gabe.

[Jack Lambert]

What sport did UCLA offer?

[ShotgunDawg]

We have to have sign 2 QB's- we only have 2 on the roster. We have no choice.

The 3rd QB wont play much- but he will get more reps in practice everyday- while the 4th gets less and works scout team. That's a big deal.

You dont want to two QB's in the same class- it's not rocket surgery

I'm completely agree with you in that one of the freshman QB's should win the 3rd string QB spot and get more snaps in practice. However, there is no basis for blowing that player's redshirt unless he Dak or Williams gets hurt, and/or the freshman QB wins the backup role.

There isn't enough playing time to get 3 healthy QBs significant snaps.

The true freshman that wins the 3rd job should take a ton of snaps in practice, dress out on gameday, travel with the team, but under no circumstances touch that field unless the Dak or Williams gets hurt and/or the freshman wins the #2 backup role.

[Dawg61]

Damn Bear Bryant- how many scholarships do you think we have available?

Consider it precaution to have Dontreal Pruitt ready to play next year. A year full of turf toe surgery, missing spring ball and 2 3/4ths games has me wanting an experienced leader ready behind Dak. Pruitt plays for the NJCAA NC on Sunday.

[smootness]

A) It keeps you from having two QB's in the same class- and thusly leaving a big hole at that position when they both graduate. You're only going to keep 4 QB's on the roster- and losing 2 at once is a big blow

B) Having them in different classes also lessens the chance of the loser of the QB battle from transferring out.

A - I understand this point and obviously ideally you do want to avoid having multiple QBs in the same class. And I understand we were forced, through missing on a couple of guys and having Sandberg not show up, to sign 2 QBs in this class. But I don't think the answer to that problem is to go ahead and burn the redshirt of your best freshman QB. Again, clearly the ideal scenario would be to sign 1 QB in each class. So let's pretend our QB situation is fine and we signed one freshman this year, and we believe is the heir apparent. No way do you voluntarily burn the redshirt on that guy until it's necessary. So why would be burn the redshirt next year? Again, the solution to the problem is not to create another problem, which would be that you just reduced the potential years of that guy as starting QB by one.

B - What is the big downside if the lesser of the two QBs transfers out? The better one would be in the same class the redshirted QB would be in anyway, so you wouldn't lose a year of those QBs. Let's say Staley is the better guy and we let him play and redshirt Fitzgerald, then Staley starts as a Jr and Sr and Fitzgerald is ready to go as a rsSr. Is it worse to redshirt both and have Staley start as a rsSo? He would still be able to play as a rsSr the same year we would have had Fitzgerald starting. Obviously the risk is of Staley leaving early, but that's why you have to keep recruiting well.

[ShotgunDawg]

what? He's the least likely of the three.

There's one guy on our team right now who can block nick james, and his name isn't Gabe.

Do you realize how good you have to leave school early to go to the NFL?

I would be willing to bet a small fortune that leaving early has nothing to do with why we played Shumpert or the decision that will be made on Staley.

[Coach34]

Consider it precaution to have Dontreal Pruitt ready to play next year. A year full of turf toe surgery, missing spring ball and 2 3/4ths games has me wanting an experienced leader ready behind Dak. Pruitt plays for the NJCAA NC on Sunday.

And how do you convince him to come in and sit behind a guy that will be touted as one of the top 4 QB's in the SEC next year?

[smootness]

what? He's the least likely of the three.

There's one guy on our team right now who can block nick james, and his name isn't Gabe.

I've heard some good things about Nick James recently, what are you hearing? And given what you just said, do you think he starts if he's still around?

[smootness]

Do you realize how good you have to leave school early to go to the NFL?

I would be willing to bet a small fortune that leaving early has nothing to do with why we played Shumpert or the decision that will be made on Staley.

I think it played into it some on Shumpert, but I think the bigger factor was that we know we can recruit good RBs, and it's easier to continue recruiting them if they know they can get on the field as a freshman.

[ShotgunDawg]

A - I understand this point and obviously ideally you do want to avoid having multiple QBs in the same class. And I understand we were forced, through missing on a couple of guys and having Sandberg not show up, to sign 2 QBs in this class. But I don't think the answer to that problem is to go ahead and burn the redshirt of your best freshman QB. Again, clearly the ideal scenario would be to sign 1 QB in each class. So let's pretend our QB situation is fine and we signed one freshman this year, and we believe is the heir apparent. No way do you voluntarily burn the redshirt on that guy until it's necessary. So why would be burn the redshirt next year? Again, the solution to the problem is not to create another problem, which would be that you just reduced the potential years of that guy as starting QB by one.

B - What is the big downside if the lesser of the two QBs transfers out? The better one would be in the same class the redshirted QB would be in anyway, so you wouldn't lose a year of those QBs. Let's say Staley is the better guy and we let him play and redshirt Fitzgerald, then Staley starts as a Jr and Sr and Fitzgerald is ready to go as a rsSr. Is it worse to redshirt both and have Staley start as a rsSo? He would still be able to play as a rsSr the same year we would have had Fitzgerald starting. Obviously the risk is of Staley leaving early, but that's why you have to keep recruiting well.

http://i.imgur.com/kQWV2.gif

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it played into it some on Shumpert, but I think the bigger factor was that we know we can recruit good RBs, and it's easier to continue recruiting them if they know they can get on the field as a freshman.

I don't think Shumpert is in anyway a leave early guy. The Shumpert decision was likely based on the fact that he is a versatile player that could help us on special teams, fullback, and as a 3rd RB.

Burning Shumpert's redshirt legitimately helped our team

[Johnson85]

There isn't enough playing time to get 3 healthy QBs significant snaps.


Nobody thinks 3 Qbs are going to get significant snaps. The reality is that at some point in the season, it's very likely that one of our top two qb's will be hurt and there's a decent chance that both will be banged up at the same time. I personally would not burn Staley's redshirt if I could help it, but if he is anything like Williams as far as readiness to play, it's a real benefit for him to have some playing experience early on and provides some benefit as far as spreading out your qb classes. If Staley is not head and shoulders above Fitz, I'd rather put Fitz in the position of burning his redshirt. But if Staley is going to give you the better chance to win if you ultimately have to rely on your 3rd string qb (like we did this year), you don't want to burn Fitz's redshirt and then end up playing Staley if injuries force you to rely on your third string qb.

But if you want to predict how Mullen will handle his third qb, remember how he handled Russell his true freshman year. We never had an injury with mini-me or Relf, and he kept Russell's redshirt in tact, although he apparently came pretty close to burning it in the Houston game. He may do the same with Staley and Fitz, although it's different since we have two qb's in this class and apparently some good leads in the next class or two.

[Political Hack]

I've heard some good things about Nick James recently, what are you hearing? And given what you just said, do you think he starts if he's still around?

based on what I heard I'll be surprised if Clayborn doesn't start.

I think nick could be considered a co-starter and am willing to bet he goes pro after two more years (his RS Jr season)... assuming he keeps his head on straight.

Shotgun, I'm just passing along what the staff said to justify playing them early. They could've been lying I guess, but generally speaking CDM has been pretty clear that he's not going to sit you on the sidelines if you can earn snaps, especially when he might not get a 5th year out of you anyway.

I don't think a lot of people realize how much young talent we have on our team. There are several guys who could leave early for the first time... maybe ever... from MSU.

Gabe could've last year. JRob could. Shump could. Clayborn could. James could. Quay could. Jones could. BMac could. Probably missing a few. Remember, some of these kids will leave with a top 2-3 round projection despite that not always being a good choice.

[ShotgunDawg]

Nobody thinks 3 Qbs are going to get significant snaps. The reality is that at some point in the season, it's very likely that one of our top two qb's will be hurt and there's a decent chance that both will be banged up at the same time. I personally would not burn Staley's redshirt if I could help it, but if he is anything like Williams as far as readiness to play, it's a real benefit for him to have some playing experience early on and provides some benefit as far as spreading out your qb classes. If Staley is not head and shoulders above Fitz, I'd rather put Fitz in the position of burning his redshirt. But if Staley is going to give you the better chance to win if you ultimately have to rely on your 3rd string qb (like we did this year), you don't want to burn Fitz's redshirt and then end up playing Staley if injuries force you to rely on your third string qb.

But if you want to predict how Mullen will handle his third qb, remember how he handled Russell his true freshman year. We never had an injury with mini-me or Relf, and he kept Russell's redshirt in tact, although he apparently came pretty close to burning it in the Houston game. He may do the same with Staley and Fitz, although it's different since we have two qb's in this class and apparently some good leads in the next class or two.

We agree.

Furthermore, I don't think a player is anymore ready to play by getting 10 snaps versus 0 and redshirting. Certainly not enough to justify blowing a redshirt.

[Dawg61]

And how do you convince him to come in and sit behind a guy that will be touted as one of the top 4 QB's in the SEC next year?

Just be up front about the situation. He'd be the backup to a top 4 SEC QB. Doubt he gets another SEC offer and definitely not one only 30 minutes from his current school.

[smootness]

Just be up front about the situation. He'd be the backup to a top 4 SEC QB. Doubt he gets another SEC offer and definitely not one only 30 minutes from his current school.

That's just not a good decision IMO. It causes you to have to cut another roster spot somewhere, and it just kind of throws a wrench into things. We would then have, what, at least 6 QBs on scholarship in 2015 when we bring in at least one freshman?

Plus, it would be kind of weird for the guys we just brought in and for future recruiting to bring in a JUCO after getting signatures from 2 high-schoolers.

If you're bringing in a JUCO QB, it is because you expect him to compete for the starting job. You don't bring them in for depth.

[dawgs]

Williams got more than 10 snaps this year. He's the 3rd QB and now is the 2nd QB. By your logic we wouldn't have burned his RS till the Arkansas game. That's why you burn it early in the season. You also want to create some forced turnover so you don't end up with 3 QB's all graduating in the same season and ****ing yourself in recruiting when they leave. I think we are seeing some of these issues at HB right now. Milton and Griffin will use up their eligibility soon and we got very little on the field production from them. They should of been moved to FB/TE/LB/FS. Stupid to waste talented athletes like them.

but williams was the #2 QB by week 2. that's why he played. what part of "if dak and williams both stay healthy" do yall not understand?

[dawgs]

I agree, but the issue will work itself out. I can pretty much guarantee you that if there are 2 QBs in the same class, the one who is second on the depth chart will either change positions or transfer. I don't think the answer to, 'We don't want 2 QBs in the same class' is to waste a year on one of them, especially if it's the better one.

exactly, trying to act like in 2017 one of these guys wouldn't have transferred or busted out or changed positions or lost the job to a younger player signed sometime between 2014 and 2016 is ludicrous. you buy as much time for development in these guys as possible and worry about the roster spot when the time comes.

[Political Hack]

exactly, trying to act like in 2017 one of these guys wouldn't have transferred or busted out or changed positions or lost the job to a younger player signed sometime between 2014 and 2016 is ludicrous. you buy as much time for development in these guys as possible and worry about the roster spot when the time comes.

CDM plays talent when talent is ready to play. That's not going to change.

[dawgs]

A) It keeps you from having two QB's in the same class- and thusly leaving a big hole at that position when they both graduate. You're only going to keep 4 QB's on the roster- and losing 2 at once is a big blow

B) Having them in different classes also lessens the chance of the loser of the QB battle from transferring out.

but i think the odds that both of them develop into sec starters is pretty low. it's not like we are bringing in a couple of 5* QBs here. and you seem to be negating that fact that we will be recruiting QBs in the future. usually if a guy can't start by the time he's a redshirt senior, you'd like to think in the previous 4 years you would have landed a better QB option. at least that's my thinking. if i'm a betting man, i'd bet that 1 of staley and fitzgerald never sees their senior season playing QB at msu. we have 5 years to figure out the roster. don't blow a QB redshirt unnecessarily.

[Political Hack]

I agree with your philosophy dawgs, but Staley reminds me of Newton. It might take a few years in the weight room and developing, but they're going to play him early and often to get him ready. I think he get could be one of, if not the best QB we've ever gotten to campus. Time will tell how well it works out.

[dawgs]

CDM plays talent when talent is ready to play. That's not going to change.

well that would mean either staley or fitzgerald beat out williams and/or dak, at which point they'd be either #1 or #2 on the depth chart and as everyone has said multiple times, at that point, it's fine to burn the redshirt because the guys have proven to be ready to play. otherwise, if they can't beat out dak and/or williams, then they shouldn't touch the field until either dak or williams gets hurt with a significant injury.

[dawgs]

I agree with your philosophy dawgs, but Staley reminds me of Newton. It might take a few years in the weight room and developing, but they're going to play him early and often to get him ready. I think he get could be one of, if not the best QB we've ever gotten to campus. Time will tell how well it works out.

maybe so, but if he's not able to win at least the #2 spot in 2014 and we avoid injuries, i want him redshirted, getting some practice reps, and hitting the weight room, then he probably ends up winning the #2 spot as a redshirt frosh during prescott's redshirt senior season in 2015, then he starts 2016-2018. and if he's capable of going pro early, then so be it, but he still wouldn't have been ready to help us in 2014 if he can't win the backup QB role and/or we avoid significant QB injuries. and if he's blowing up to the point of being a high draft pick early, we should be able to attract some high quality QBs that will be waiting for their shot.

[engie]

What is our fanbase's infatuation with the act of redshirting? It seems awfully stupid the first time you lose a player after 3 or 4 years anyway. Using Manziel and Winston are terrible examples. Both of those fanbases are only going to get those players for 2 years. At most in one case. You mean to tell me they wouldn't have been difference-makers in certain packages in year 1 as well? Nevermind the fact that they had NFL-locks playing in front of them before -- and while we have high hopes for Dak, he's still a long way from that right now.

As to the Aaron Murray example -- the ONLY reason he redshirted was because he had an injured shoulder the first year.

Staley was over 230 lbs on his OV to MSU. He'll be 245+ after a summer with Balis. He needs some goal line and short yardage packages as a freshman -- and certainly needs all the jump passes. As good as Dak has been -- Staley gives us an extra foot at least simply in the act of falling forward.

Bottom line -- if he's ready, he needs to play. If he's not, then we can consider other options.

[Political Hack]

Yep.

[smootness]

Dak may not be an NFL lock right now, but he's still going to be our starting QB, which is all that matters when comparing the situations.

And I don't really care why Murray redshirted, the bottom line is that he stuck around for his 5th year, and he was a 5-star guy.

Yes, if Staley or Fitzgerald is 'ready to play' - meaning have clearly beaten out Williams and are the #2 guy, they should play right away. If they are #3, I don't see a benefit to playing them just to play them. The initial suggestion was that we should play them only to avoid having 2 QBs in the same class. And all I've said is that to me, that reason is not a good one to burn a year of a talented guy. There are no guarantees as to how long a guy will take to develop, how quickly he could go pro, whether he wants to stick around 5 years and get more coaching/experience before going to the next level. You don't know.

So if a guy can help us now and we need to get him ready because we would have to use him if Dak went down, play him. If we're playing him solely to not redshirt him, I think that is pointless.

I don't have a fascination with redshirting, but there's a reason schools redshirt QBs so often. Yes, some end up being studs and leaving early. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad idea at the time to redshirt them.

[War Machine Dawg]

By signing with a baseball agent, he is considered a baseball professional and is thus ineligible to ever compete in baseball at the collegiate level. This has zero effect on football eligibility...

Bracky will be long, long gone before Sandberg comes back. Changes are going to be made in compliance in the near future, whether they are announced to the public or not. If you think about it, we would take a big PR hit if we announced his ouster while on current probation. He will be the figurehead of compliance at least through the end of probation in the summer of 2015 -- but I don't expect him to actually retain any power for that long -- if that makes sense?

I'm going to disagree here. I think the fact we're on probation makes it a PERFECT time to rid ourselves of the albatross that is Bracky Brett. This is what, the 3rd time on probation during his reign of terror? You don't have to say he sucks at his job and we need to figure out how to cheat better, but you can say some canned shit along the lines of "we're trying to improve our compliance environment and we feel it's time for a change at this position. We thank Bracky for the job he's done."

[dawgs]

What is our fanbase's infatuation with the act of redshirting? It seems awfully stupid the first time you lose a player after 3 or 4 years anyway. Using Manziel and Winston are terrible examples. Both of those fanbases are only going to get those players for 2 years. At most in one case. You mean to tell me they wouldn't have been difference-makers in certain packages in year 1 as well? Nevermind the fact that they had NFL-locks playing in front of them before -- and while we have high hopes for Dak, he's still a long way from that right now.

As to the Aaron Murray example -- the ONLY reason he redshirted was because he had an injured shoulder the first year.

Staley was over 230 lbs on his OV to MSU. He'll be 245+ after a summer with Balis. He needs some goal line and short yardage packages as a freshman -- and certainly needs all the jump passes. As good as Dak has been -- Staley gives us an extra foot at least simply in the act of falling forward.

Bottom line -- if he's ready, he needs to play. If he's not, then we can consider other options.

but luck and mariota both came (are coming) back for a 4th year as a redshirt junior even though luck would have been the #1 pick and mariota likely a top 5 pick. you just never know, so playing or not playing a guy because you are trying to predict with precision where he will be 3-5 years down the road is ridiculous. either the guys is ready to play and is the back up or starting QB, is playing out of necessity due to injuries, or you redshirt him to buy time for him to develop a little more know that you might get him for a 5th year, but either way if he's not ready to play as a true freshmen or isn't forced into duty, then he can either go pro as a redshirt soph or a true junior, doesn't matter because he wasn't ready to see the field as a freshman.

[Big4Dawg]

All this talk about leaving early, seriously?

Y'all realize he is a 3* QB with offers from BC and Vandy. I'm not saying he's good or won't be great or be the next Cam Newton, but to even THINK about him leaving early, at this moment, is completely absurd. You redshirt him, no questions asked.

Top 10 QBs from last years:

Max Browne - USC - RS
Christian Hackenberg - Penn State - starts
Shane Morris - Michigan - 2nd string, played some
Kevin Olsen - Miami - RS
Brice Ramsey - UGA - RS
Troy Williams - Washington - RS
Asiantii Woulard - UCLA - RS
JT Barrett - Ohio State - RS
Cody Thomas - OU - RS
Hayden Rettig - LSU - RS

These are the TOP QBs last year, and 8/10 RS, most of them at schools where they get a new 5* every single year. And some of yall are saying you want the "QB of our future", who will likely be 3rd string, to get some snaps next year so because a) worried about him leaving early or b) for experience.

He can get all the experience he needs his RS Fr backing up Dak. No need to waste a full year of experience on a guy who could start for 3 years. I don't even care IF he beats out Williams, you RS him.

[Political Hack]

if he beats out Williams he won't RS unless he wants to. if he doesn't, he should.

[engie]

but luck and mariota both came (are coming) back for a 4th year as a redshirt junior even though luck would have been the #1 pick and mariota likely a top 5 pick. you just never know, so playing or not playing a guy because you are trying to predict with precision where he will be 3-5 years down the road is ridiculous. either the guys is ready to play and is the back up or starting QB, is playing out of necessity due to injuries, or you redshirt him to buy time for him to develop a little more know that you might get him for a 5th year, but either way if he's not ready to play as a true freshmen or isn't forced into duty, then he can either go pro as a redshirt soph or a true junior, doesn't matter because he wasn't ready to see the field as a freshman.

What does this have to do with anything I said? If a guy is ready to play, you play him. Is this not exactly what I said?

What does Luck and Mariota coming back for a 4th year have to do with anything? Are you implying they wouldn't have come back had they not redshirted? Otherwise redshirting STILL did nothing but remove a year of potential productivity from them. Even if they only got a few snaps in a few games, that's still greater than what they got in their 5th years when they weren't there.

[smootness]

Asiantii Woulard is amazing.

[CadaverDawg]

Not sure if I've seen this mentioned, but have any of you thought about the fact that he may have committed to us with a guarantee from the coaches that he would NOT redshirt? Some guys do not want to redshirt, so if you are not Bama and you want a talented guy that is demanding no redshirt...you give him that guarantee and don't redshirt him. See Ashton Shumpert for example.

[Coach34]

but i think the odds that both of them develop into sec starters is pretty low. it's not like we are bringing in a couple of 5* QBs here. and you seem to be negating that fact that we will be recruiting QBs in the future. usually if a guy can't start by the time he's a redshirt senior, you'd like to think in the previous 4 years you would have landed a better QB option. at least that's my thinking. if i'm a betting man, i'd bet that 1 of staley and fitzgerald never sees their senior season playing QB at msu. we have 5 years to figure out the roster. don't blow a QB redshirt unnecessarily.

You cant go into it thinking like that- and while the variables are there- if they both go thru their careers- you dont want two in the same class
But what is best for the program and balance of the team- is to have a QB in each class and not lose 2 of your guys at once. There have been numerous instances of 5th year Sr QB's starting for one season and having good years for programs.

[Coach34]

Not sure if I've seen this mentioned, but have any of you thought about the fact that he may have committed to us with a guarantee from the coaches that he would NOT redshirt? Some guys do not want to redshirt, so if you are not Bama and you want a talented guy that is demanding no redshirt...you give him that guarantee and don't redshirt him. See Ashton Shumpert for example.

Yes- some guys just dont want to RS

[thedawg]

I heard it come out of our head coach's mouth that he thinks Staley is ahead of Tebow coming out of high school, way ahead of Alex Smith, and a hair behind Cam but very comparable. He was talking total package as a qb prospect. He then looked at a recruiting guy and said "You guys are absolutely nuts to have him as a three star. What are you basing it off of? Thats fine Ill take three stars like him everyday." I would say that Mullen sees Staley as his guy of the future. Have to see how it plays out.

[ShotgunDawg]

I am perfectly OK not redshirting Staley next year if he is ready to play. By ready to play I mean being able to beat out Williams for the number 2 job. If he can't do that, then he needs to redshirt.

[FISHDAWG]

I am perfectly OK not redshirting Staley next year if he is ready to play. By ready to play I mean being able to beat out Williams for the number 2 job. If he can't do that, then he needs to redshirt.

give up on the redshirt ... we need and have had in the past - three schollie QB's ready to play ..... anything less than three is asking for trouble

[maroonmania]

Bracky will be long, long gone before Sandberg comes back. Changes are going to be made in compliance in the near future, whether they are announced to the public or not.

Man, this is the best news I've heard all day if true. Are you getting this from trusted sources or is it just your personal prediction? This is definitely the first I've heard from anyone saying our administration is going to make a move on the Bracky front.

[CadaverDawg]

I am perfectly OK not redshirting Staley next year if he is ready to play. By ready to play I mean being able to beat out Williams for the number 2 job. If he can't do that, then he needs to redshirt.

Let it go. We need 3 QB's ready and available in this offense. When you run your QB like we do...you can't afford to only have 2 guys getting reps and being very familiar with the offense. This isn't the old MSU anymore...we used to have to worry about using a good recruit for the maximum amount of snaps in his career, but not anymore. Now, we have good recruits battling it out and making each other better, thus resulting in great QB starters and solid QB depth. When Dak gets tons of attention next year, we won't be worried about having Elijah available for 4 full years to start, because we will likely sign a 4 or 5 star stud right behind him. I see where you're coming from, because I used to feel the same way...but not anymore. Not in this style offense and where we are located. We no longer rely on having to have a stud pocket passer that only comes along every 20 years (or longer). We live in Dual threat QB country

[FlabLoser]

Staley was over 230 lbs on his OV to MSU. He'll be 245+ after a summer with Balis.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/id1Bow.gif

[Coach34]

Coach Camp said he was filling out now and gaining weight back in the summer. Elijah is just 18 years old- he will develop alot by the time he is 21

[coachcamp]

Coach Camp said he was filling out now and gaining weight back in the summer. Elijah is just 18 years old- he will develop alot by the time he is 21
Whats up fellas.. Coach34.. He is only 17 and he won't turn 18 until June 3 of next year. He will still be 17 when he graduates... Guys he don't plan on redshirting. He plans on competing for play time asap. Also, Im afraid if he does Redshirt. Basketball will steal him away. I don't want that. He weighed in at 234 on his official. He'll be at least 240 by the time he get to state. Im sure the coaches will do whats best. Redshirt??? I don't think so.. just my opinion

[Coach34]

Whats up fellas.. Coach34.. He is only 17 and he won't turn 18 until June 3 of next year. He will still be 17 when he graduates... Guys he don't plan on redshirting. He plans on competing for play time asap. Also, Im afraid if he does Redshirt. Basketball will steal him away. I don't want that. He weighed in at 234 on his official. He'll be at least 240 by the time he get to state. Im sure the coaches will do whats best. Redshirt??? I don't think so.. just my opinion

Damn....17- still a baby. His body will really transform the next 2-3 years.

Obviously he has to do his part to get the playing time- but I dont see him having a problem earning his chance for a series here and there in our first 3 games next year. And depending how that goes- it will determine how much he plays after that.

[FlabLoser]

Only one guy is gonna determine if Elijah redshirts and that is Elijah. Mullen has shown that guys who earn a shot will get their shot.

[SheltonChoked]

One snap.

In overtime. Vs Arkansas.

You burn the redshirt early so that is not his first snap.

[Dawg61]

Hey CoachCamp, how's basketball season going? Did you get the chance to watch MSU beat Ole Miss again on Thanksgiving night?