Is our next HC a Portal guy or a Program builder...

[HancockCountyDog]

I had this debate with a fellow bulldog at lunch and I think we have to go program builder, but he was convinced we need a Portal guy coach.

I look at a portal coach like Deion or kiffin. I think of Dave Doeren or Klieman at KSU as program builders. Doeren is going to win 8+ games a season since 2020 this year, barring a collapse.

I think since we have so many holes to fill next year, that going portal heavy to maybe win 6 games is a waste and we should spend next year developing HS players and getting them reps maybe we only win 3-5 games, but we are building something, and we spend our NIL money on HS recruits and then once we have a solid foundation, we go portal for a few key spots like DE, QB or OT.

If you were the AD what would you want from your HC hire a 1-2 year vision or a 3-4 year vision? I think we do best with a 3-4 year plan as opposed to a Deion type hire.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Portal. The days of program builders, in this conference at least, are dead and gone. You have to look at each year like a new team.

[Coursesuper]

I had this debate with a fellow bulldog at lunch and I think we have to go program builder, but he was convinced we need a Portal guy coach.

I look at a portal coach like Deion or kiffin. I think of Dave Doeren or Klieman at KSU as program builders. Doeren is going to win 8+ games a season since 2020 this year, barring a collapse.

I think since we have so many holes to fill next year, that going portal heavy to maybe win 6 games is a waste and we should spend next year developing HS players and getting them reps maybe we only win 3-5 games, but we are building something, and we spend our NIL money on HS recruits and then once we have a solid foundation, we go portal for a few key spots like DE, QB or OT.

If you were the AD what would you want from your HC hire a 1-2 year vision or a 3-4 year vision? I think we do best with a 3-4 year plan as opposed to a Deion type hire.

To compete in our league you have to be both now. Teams have to accumulate talent any way possible. The portal is just another tool to use now.

[TrapGame]

Portal. Guys like Kiffin are proving it.

[HancockCountyDog]

Portal. The days of program builders, in this conference at least, are dead and gone. You have to look at each year like a new team.

Guys like Stoops at UK and Drinkwitz are building. Hell the two best teams in the SEC, Bama and UGA barely use the portal.

The only portal team that is successful are the bears and they weren't great last year, but look to have hit this year. I just don't think we are built to succeed that way, plus the portal is damn expensive.

[Really Clark?]

They need to be both. We need someone who can use the portal well for immediate needs in our NIL zone, develop our signees and also find guys in the portal that need developing into good players but would be lower cost options.

[preachermatt83]

Both sides have a valid argument. If you can find BOTH In one, then you are gonna be fighting all the blue bloods and paying 7+ mil a year. I say find a program builder and have a staff that can work the portal. It absolutely needs to be an offensive minded head coach as well

[preachermatt83]

With our lack of nil support, a “Diamond in the rough” type would be great.

[HancockCountyDog]

They need to be both. We need someone who can use the portal well for immediate needs in our NIL zone, develop our signees and also find guys in the portal that need developing into good players but would be lower cost options.

I think this is where I am, so lets say 70/30 program builder/portal.

I don't think we can expect to turn over our roster every year and be successful. kiffin has even admitted that he is shifting their NIL priorities. He sees LSU/AL/UGA and to an extent A&M as using NIL to get elite HS kids and then hold on to them. If we had our shit together this year, we could be doing that in-state. It is a banner year for talent in MS and we are getting destroyed and now we are looking at JUCO and portal.

I just think we are a developmental program and that we can build our team, but i'll be the first to admit I could be wrong. I just know that what we are doing now, ain't working.

[RockyDog]

"Diamond in the rough" Dan left us the same way he did Florida. No depth.

We put up with Dan because he followed 3 awful years of Jackie and the worst coach in MSU history. But he was also at MSU over a decade ago now and the whole game has seemingly changed. You can't build a team of homegrown 3 stars and expect to compete in the deepest league in college football. When Mullen started we were 9 or 10 of 12. Now we are in the bottom of the pack in a league of 16. That's a huge talent gap to overcome year after year and you aren't going to do it by growing talent over 4 years because even the hometown kids aren't guaranteed to stick it out any longer. The ability to transfer is just too easy these days.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Guys like Stoops at UK and Drinkwitz are building. Hell the two best teams in the SEC, Bama and UGA barely use the portal.

The only portal team that is successful are the bears and they weren't great last year, but look to have hit this year. I just don't think we are built to succeed that way, plus the portal is damn expensive.

Drink went portal heavy this past off-season and is having his best season. Stoops literally has transfer players everywhere.

For Kirby and Saban, I mean it is pretty easy to be a program builder when you can hand pick 5 stars from high school and any player you want from the portal to fill the gaps. We do not have that luxury.

[TrapGame]

Guys like Stoops at UK and Drinkwitz are building. Hell the two best teams in the SEC, Bama and UGA barely use the portal.

The only portal team that is successful are the bears and they weren't great last year, but look to have hit this year. I just don't think we are built to succeed that way, plus the portal is damn expensive.

C'mon, dude. Bama and UGA recruit in the top #3. They don't need a portal roster. Their guys GO to the portal to get fought over by lesser programs. We should never give up on building with high school talent but our program needs to make some serious hay in the portal.

[HancockCountyDog]

"Diamond in the rough" Dan left us the same way he did Florida. No depth.

We put up with Dan because he followed 3 awful years of Jackie and the worst coach in MSU history. But he was also at MSU over a decade ago now and the whole game has seemingly changed. You can't build a team of homegrown 3 stars and expect to compete in the deepest league in college football. When Mullen started we were 9 or 10 of 12. Now we are in the bottom of the pack in a league of 16. That's a huge talent gap to overcome year after year and you aren't going to do it by growing talent over 4 years because even the hometown kids aren't guaranteed to stick it out any longer. The ability to transfer is just too easy these days.

Diamond in the rough Dan left us a 2018 team that was as talented as any team in our recent memory. I sure hope we are lucky to have a team with such little depth. If we run the Relf offense in 2018 instead of trying to run a pro style offense, we win 10 that year.

I swear what is it with coaches running their offense instead the one that his talent has.

[HancockCountyDog]

Drink went portal heavy this past off-season and is having his best season. Stoops literally has transfer players everywhere.


Drink brought in 8 portal guys, Stoops brought in 13. I think around 10 is the right number, assuming they can be difference makers. UK had 13 coming in and 21 going out through the portal, which is a lot more than I thought.

I think one of the areas we need to be recruiting are the G5 guys that have showed potential, that have 2-3 years of eligibility remaining. We should be tampering with every single player that makes the CUSA or Sun Belt freshman team.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Diamond in the rough Dan left us a 2018 team that was as talented as any team in our recent memory. I sure hope we are lucky to have a team with such little depth. If we run the Relf offense in 2018 instead of trying to run a pro style offense, we win 10 that year.

I swear what is it with coaches running their offense instead the one that his talent has.

EGO. Coaches have huge egos. They want to win their way and only their way. Hell go back to 2020 and the Egg Bowl. If we just run the ball we probably win that game. That OM defense was beyond ass against the run.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Drink brought in 8 portal guys, Stoops brought in 13. I think around 10 is the right number, assuming they can be difference makers. UK had 13 coming in and 21 going out through the portal, which is a lot more than I thought.

I think one of the areas we need to be recruiting are the G5 guys that have showed potential, that have 2-3 years of eligibility remaining. We should be tampering with every single player that makes the CUSA or Sun Belt freshman team.

Yes the Tre Harris type players.

[DownwardDawg]

They need to be both. We need someone who can use the portal well for immediate needs in our NIL zone, develop our signees and also find guys in the portal that need developing into good players but would be lower cost options.

This is the answer. I would say mostly a program builder that is able to grab a need here and there from the portal.

[DownwardDawg]

Diamond in the rough Dan left us a 2018 team that was as talented as any team in our recent memory. I sure hope we are lucky to have a team with such little depth. If we run the Relf offense in 2018 instead of trying to run a pro style offense, we win 10 that year.

I swear what is it with coaches running their offense instead the one that his talent has.

Yes. Dan left us with a team that would have won 11 games if he would have stayed. He left us with a team that was absolutely loaded. Number 1 defense in the nation.

[preachermatt83]

Yes. Dan left us with a team that would have won 11 games if he would have stayed. He left us with a team that was absolutely loaded. Number 1 defense in the nation.

Facts!

[parabrave]

Ut has to be both. But you got to hit it with a portal guy. Plus the portal as we know it will be revamped one day soon. The big guys, Saban, will tire of seeing their rosters being raided every year.

[parabrave]

Yes. Dan left us with a team that would have won 11 games if he would have stayed. He left us with a team that was absolutely loaded. Number 1 defense in the nation.

And a QB room full of talent. I watched KT in high school, He would've killed it here under Mullen.

[Bothrops]

It definitely wont be a portal guy lol. I'd like a guy that can motivate people who aren?t self motivated.

[parabrave]

One future thing about the portal and NIL is that it is inevitable that "consulting" agencies will be a must. A coach will give a firm what he wants and how much we can afford and they will set everything up. Junior Jerry Maguires will be all over next year.

[Coach34]

Lots of comedy in this thread.

Kentucky's QB is a portal guy they stole from Doeren and NC State

You have to have an NIL warchest to recruit period now. Doesnt matter which way you go

[preachermatt83]

Lots of comedy in this thread.

Kentucky's QB is a portal guy they stole from Doeren and NC State

You have to have an NIL warchest to recruit period now. Doesnt matter which way you go

And we don’t have a war chest, hence why I say we have to get a Diamond in the rough finder.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I had this debate with a fellow bulldog at lunch and I think we have to go program builder, but he was convinced we need a Portal guy coach.

I look at a portal coach like Deion or kiffin. I think of Dave Doeren or Klieman at KSU as program builders. Doeren is going to win 8+ games a season since 2020 this year, barring a collapse.

I think since we have so many holes to fill next year, that going portal heavy to maybe win 6 games is a waste and we should spend next year developing HS players and getting them reps maybe we only win 3-5 games, but we are building something, and we spend our NIL money on HS recruits and then once we have a solid foundation, we go portal for a few key spots like DE, QB or OT.

If you were the AD what would you want from your HC hire a 1-2 year vision or a 3-4 year vision? I think we do best with a 3-4 year plan as opposed to a Deion type hire.

It needs to be a dude. A sure enough certified dude that aint gonna take the leftovers from Bama and LSU. Somebody who is here to win as much as humanly possible. From day 1. In better terms we need someone with some FU in him

[preachermatt83]

Id Have a hard time not hiring GJ Kinne

[BuckyIsAB****]

Lots of comedy in this thread.

Kentucky's QB is a portal guy they stole from Doeren and NC State

You have to have an NIL warchest to recruit period now. Doesnt matter which way you go

Damn dude I wonder how those schools that cant afford half our NIL get players to play hard on saturdays and recruit. It is almost like there is a little more to it than that and you have an agenda or something. Maybe its just me

[Coach34]

Damn dude I wonder how those schools that cant afford half our NIL get players to play hard on saturdays and recruit. It is almost like there is a little more to it than that and you have an agenda or something. Maybe its just me

I dont have any attachment to Arnett. If he gets fired- he gets fired. I just think people better be chill when we make the next hire because it likely ends up being target #5 or 6

[BuckyIsAB****]

I dont have any attachment to Arnett. If he gets fired- he gets fired. I just think people better be chill when we make the next hire because it likely ends up being target #5 or 6

It better not be because we shriveled up and said we cant do no better

[DownwardDawg]

It better not be because we shriveled up and said we cant do no better

Agree. I'm f that happens, then we've decided to stop competing. We could have paid Mullen $6 million per year and were ready to.........in 2018!!!!!!! We can pay more than that if we "need to".

[BankerDog]

And we don’t have a war chest, hence why I say we have to get a Diamond in the rough finder.

And what happens when the ?diamonds in a rough? develop and decide to hit portal aka Pratt at Tulane or Hartman at Notre Dame

[Coach34]

And what happens when the ?diamonds in a rough? develop and decide to hit portal aka Pratt at Tulane or Hartman at Notre Dame

This

We develop them and they move and go to other schools for more NIL like RaRa and such

[BankerDog]

This

We develop them and they move and go to other schools for more NIL like RaRa and such

It?s time we start putting real resources into our money generating sports. Keenum not allowing the athletic department to attain more football support staff and telling them to make the BDC pay for it is criminal. Can?t do that in this age when BDC contributions go down and NIL goes up.

[dawgday166]

It?s time we start putting real resources into our money generating sports. Keenum not allowing the athletic department to attain more football support staff and telling them to make the BDC pay for it is criminal. Can?t do that in this age when BDC contributions go down and NIL goes up.

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure anyone is. But I would think your base comes out of HS and comes up thru and learns your system. Then if/when they become a stud you pay to keep them. And you then supplement any holes in your roster each year with the portal too.

But that's just me, sitting here drinking my coffee ... strong, black, and slightly bitter.

[DownwardDawg]

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure anyone is. But I would think your base comes out of HS and comes up thru and learns your system. Then if/when they become a stud you pay to keep them. And you then supplement any holes in your roster each year with the portal too.

But that's just me, sitting here drinking my coffee ... strong, black, and slightly bitter.

Makes too much sense. We'll just throw our hands up in the air and cry about how unfair life is.

[Coach34]

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure anyone is. But I would think your base comes out of HS and comes up thru and learns your system. Then if/when they become a stud you pay to keep them. And you then supplement any holes in your roster each year with the portal too.

But that's just me, sitting here drinking my coffee ... strong, black, and slightly bitter.

4 and 5 stars require a huge investment from the jump. Even your lowest recruit gets NIL. You can try to apply logic to this but thats not how it works today

[dawgday166]

4 and 5 stars require a huge investment from the jump. Even your lowest recruit gets NIL. You can try to apply logic to this but thats not how it works today

I kinda figured that but still think you try to build a strategy around HS players for most part. Bringing in a ton of portal players that haven't been in your system till that year ... gonna be hard to win a lot doing that if you're MSU most likely. Not saying we don't supplement with portal players just saying our base is HS. Especially Dlinemen when you have four 4* in the state in a give year.

[CaptainObvious]

Ole Miss showed they were committed to winning when they hired Kiffin and then gave him $9 mil a year to keep him.

Some of the most renowned Heart and Oncology Doctors are Ole Miss graduates.

Some of the most notorious scheuster lawyers are Ole Miss Grads.

And in the past couple of Decades, some of the most prominent Farmers whose parents were State Grads, chose to party at Ole Miss and go back and take over Diddy?s farm. Spending that Guvment money on Ole Miss football is easy for that bunch!

[preachermatt83]

4 and 5 stars require a huge investment from the jump. Even your lowest recruit gets NIL. You can try to apply logic to this but thats not how it works today

So what’s the answer? We can’t force ppl to give to NIL. They either will or won’t. The only answer is to have a coach that is a wonderful developer of talent

[Todd4State]

I think we need both in this era.

To me, it's sort of like the NFL in that the core group of your team comes from the draft (traditional high school recruiting) but you have to have an organization that can attract talent through free agency to put you over the top (the portal).

I think that's the big difference now is you have some coaches that are good coaches like Dabo Swinney and Matt Campbell that would have been mega superstar coaches 5 years ago and I guess Dabo still is but because they can't recruit well with the portal they're going to the wayside.

I agree with the 70/30 people too. 70% high school and 30% portal. And with us maybe we can find a couple of JUCO guys but I don't think it's something that we can really use as back up plan anymore.

[Todd4State]

So what’s the answer? We can’t force ppl to give to NIL. They either will or won’t. The only answer is to have a coach that is a wonderful developer of talent

I think the coach has to be part of selling it. Someone has to stand up and say "Hey, you want me to beat Ole Miss? OK. Well I need players to do that and here's what we need to raise to get those players."

And I think Arnett does. But the coach has to show fans that he isn't going to waste their money because he can't recruit or coach and so some of that selling is putting a great product on the field that is fun and exciting to watch.

So there are multiple parts here.

[Bothrops]

Ole Miss showed they were committed to winning when they hired Kiffin and then gave him $9 mil a year to keep him.

Some of the most renowned Heart and Oncology Doctors are Ole Miss graduates.

Some of the most notorious scheuster lawyers are Ole Miss Grads.

And in the past couple of Decades, some of the most prominent Farmers whose parents were State Grads, chose to party at Ole Miss and go back and take over Diddy?s farm. Spending that Guvment money on Ole Miss football is easy for that bunch!

Oncology doctors are way too busy to be concerned with football very much. That's from my personal observation. Lawyers on the other hand, are the main source of their funding pipeline.

[Johnson85]

And what happens when the ?diamonds in a rough? develop and decide to hit portal aka Pratt at Tulane or Hartman at Notre Dame

This is why you can't just be a developmental program, unless you are going to try to grab players that have spent one year at another school and therefore won't have a free transfer after they come to you.

Hell, we basically need to specialize in young portal players so we don't exhaust our NIL funds trying to keep players after they've shown promise. Ideally you get somebody after their freshman year when they redshirted, and then it will be hard for them to leave until they qualify as a graduate transfer. Will usually have three years with them. But most players will probably stick it out until their sophomore year unless it's just clear they aren't getting playing time or unless they are just miserable otherwise. Then you have them for two years before they run out of eligibility or qualify as a graduate transfer.

We need a reasonably simple offensive scheme that transfers can immediately grasp and execute because we're going to have to do it mostly with guys that are only here two years, three years at most.

[Percho]

Portal. The days of program builders, in this conference at least, are dead and gone. You have to look at each year like a new team.

Do you believe we have enough money to buy a new team every year?

[lastmajordog]

Portal. Guys like Kiffin are proving it.

Truth.... he is a decade ahead of the ?DOGS? .......as bad as I hate to admit it

[BuckyIsAB****]

This

We develop them and they move and go to other schools for more NIL like RaRa and such

Let?s just quit and go home now because the tuff guys couldnt make it.

But in 2022 we were losing only bc of Airbone and our defense was like the shining light that carried us to victory. GTFO