All that needs to be said

[BuckyIsAB****]

Name me one player who has gotten better from 2022. I will wait.

After your number comes to zero then think about how we have allowed a group of people to basically take your 2023 football season away from you. Leach had his faults we needed to tweak some things and Dudek needed to go, but how much more fun was it than this? How much harder did the kids play? Never forget what they took from you

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Name me one player who has gotten better from 2022. I will wait.

After your number comes to zero then think about how we have allowed a group of people to basically take your 2023 football season away from you. Leach had his faults we needed to tweak some things and Dudek needed to go, but how much more fun was it than this? How much harder did the kids play? Never forget what they took from you
It’s not zero, Zavion Thomas and Justin Robinson are much better than last year and going even further look at Dillon Johnson, Leach ran him off and look at him now…

[Todd4State]

It’s not zero, Zavion Thomas and Justin Robinson are much better than last year and going even further look at Dillon Johnson, Leach ran him off and look at him now…

Justin Robinson? How would you know? He gets the ball maybe once a game.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Justin Robinson? How would you know? He gets the ball maybe once a game.
Compared to last year where we were throwing it basically 70% or more he only had 30 catches, in this whatever the hell it is offense with a limited backup qb in some games he’s got 18, and the catches have been tougher than the dink and dunks from last year, he’s actually elevating to make a catch. He said no one has gotten better, he’s wrong those 2 have.

[Todd4State]

Name me one player who has gotten better from 2022. I will wait.

After your number comes to zero then think about how we have allowed a group of people to basically take your 2023 football season away from you. Leach had his faults we needed to tweak some things and Dudek needed to go, but how much more fun was it than this? How much harder did the kids play? Never forget what they took from you

It really is sad. Not surprising though. We literally can't get out of our own way.

What goes around comes around soon enough though.

If they hadn't lied about so much I could at least respect them. And then to throw the players under the bus by saying that Leach didn't recruit well is just low class. Take some actual responsibility.

[Todd4State]

Compared to last year where we were throwing it basically 70% or more he only had 30 catches, in this whatever the hell it is offense with a limited backup qb in some games he’s got 18, and the catches have been tougher than the dink and dunks from last year, he’s actually elevating to make a catch. He said no one has gotten better, he’s wrong those 2 have.

He was the MVP of the bowl game last year. He is a starter and he has 12 fewer receptions. And he leads the team in blind side blocks.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

He was the MVP of the bowl game last year. He is a starter and he has 12 fewer receptions. And he leads the team in blind side blocks.
He can’t throw the damn ball to himself. Look at how much we throw compared to last year. The few targets he gets, he catches the damn ball and gets the most out of it compared to last year. If you can’t see that when he actually gets the ball he’s much improved compared to last year I can’t help you. The blindside block against Arkansas is complete bs, and I believe I’ve already argued that with you I’m not rehashing it. My point was he said ZERO players have improved. If you want to argue about Robinson, you can’t argue Zavion hasn’t improved. And if you’re going to say well that’s because Zavion barely played? Well who didn’t play him last year? Leach. Who didn’t play any back up qbs in routes last year for reps and maybe we would have a better back up than Wright? Leach. Who ran off Dillon Johnson? Leach. Im not saying everything we have going on is to blame on Leach, far from it, but let’s not act like the man didn’t make a few screw ups. Some of those screw ups are effecting this team.

[Quaoarsking]

Zavion Thomas is the obvious answer, but the overall point remains.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Corey Ellington

[Charlie_Sheen420]

This may be a hot take, i think Jett Johnson is better as well. He may be slow but he’s making better reads than last year and he’s still a tackling machine….

[BuckyIsAB****]

Compared to last year where we were throwing it basically 70% or more he only had 30 catches, in this whatever the hell it is offense with a limited backup qb in some games he’s got 18, and the catches have been tougher than the dink and dunks from last year, he’s actually elevating to make a catch. He said no one has gotten better, he’s wrong those 2 have.

Sorry I didnt know players that were not on our team counted. My mistake.

Robinson has not gotten better. We are throwing the ball less but he has more catches leading to more losses equals better? Ok

[BuckyIsAB****]

Zavion Thomas is the obvious answer, but the overall point remains.

Yes he is good, but he is playing more because Williams is gone and this staff hates Walley too.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Corey Ellington

This has been the most valid one yet. I will concede that he is playing a lot better

[Cooterpoot]

Pickering, Thomas, Ellington, Russell, Preston
The bigger problem is the terrible recruiting from the last two HCs.

[CadaverDawg]

Again, who is touting Arnett and Barbay as good? Who wanted them?

Was Leach more fun? No. But having a defense that kept us in games was. Saying you'd rather have Leach's offense than this, is like saying Id rather eat a cold hot dog for dinner than a plate full of dog crap. Well no shit, but why can't we strive for a steak? You people kill me.

Nobody ever debated whether or not Leach was a better HC than Arnett, or a better OC than Barbay. Arnett and Barbay have been absolute garbage. I don't even understand why Leach keeps being brought up. Nobody wanted him dead, nobody wanted to fire him and replace him with Arnett and Barbay. Anybody with a brain would take Leach over this crap, but 99.9% of people that want to win games at a high level, would PREFER NEITHER.

[defiantdog]

John Lewis is better, but that's bc of experience.

[DownwardDawg]

Dillon Johnson is much better. Lol

[CaptainObvious]

Is it coaching or scheme making them better? Or it just the fact they are another year more experienced. Walley obviously burned a bridge somewhere with not only staff but with other players. The team just looks bad all the way around. Just unprepared, undisciplined, uninspired. Maybe Leach?s death has affected some of them mentally. Maybe they weren?t they good to start with. But I cannot understand how Walley in 3 years has gotten worse and completely disappeared. Maybe he got tired of crossing the middle for catches and getting blown up on tackles. Maybe the TE addition eliminated him from the depth chart. I don?t see the need for a tight end who cannot block air anyway. Spread out 4 wide and make the defense cover grass again dammit!

[sandjunky]

Pickering, Thomas, Ellington, Russell, Preston
The bigger problem is the terrible recruiting from the last two HCs.

I?d say also poor development from S&C to onfield performance

[basedog]

It really is sad. Not surprising though. We literally can't get out of our own way.

What goes around comes around soon enough though.

If they hadn't lied about so much I could at least respect them. And then to throw the players under the bus by saying that Leach didn't recruit well is just low class. Take some actual responsibility.

I agree and I'm sick of reading about the past and blaming Leach. I wasn't a AR guy but I love winning, blaming others for ones fault is silly. Hey, either you can make good decisions or you can't same with getting advice, you can receive good advice or receive bad advice, when you do and things go wrong quit blaming others, own up to your mistakes. Lord knows Arnett has made his bed up and still hasn't got it right. You have to Coach them up, we are not well Coached regardless. Way too many excuses by a few posters, it's disgusting to me, and yeah, I coached doesn't matter what sport, either you know or you don't. Sorry for the rant.

[basedog]

yep, and you get it. Have some Rep!

[Matt3467]

Dillon Johnson is on another team so thar wouldn't count. DJ wasn't a hapless victim. What he tweeted on the way out revealed he had issues.

With that being said this year is awful and it feels bad to see it going the way it is but I still don't think it quite touches the way 2018 went. We had a real shot to win the conference that year.

[R2Dawg]

Pickering, Thomas, Ellington, Russell, Preston
The bigger problem is the terrible recruiting from the last two HCs.

Cooter agreed. Recruiting and talent eval has sucked for many years now. We didn't get here over night.

Preston may be the most improved. I think he could play safety in NFL.

[662dawg]

Cooter agreed. Recruiting and talent eval has sucked for many years now. We didn't get here over night.

Preston may be the most improved. I think he could play safety in NFL.

We returned 19 of 22 starters from a 9 win team. The most experienced team in the SEC. & would struggle to beat ICC right now. YES we literally did get to this point OVER NIGHT!

[confucius say]

We returned 19 of 22 starters from a 9 win team. The most experienced team in the SEC. & would struggle to beat ICC right now. YES we literally did get to this point OVER NIGHT!

See. This is why you can't just read the internet and believe it. We returned nowhere close to 19 starters. We lost 7 starters just on defense (young, charleton, wheat, Forbes, Green, Matthews, Duncan).

[Really Clark?]

We returned 19 of 22 starters from a 9 win team. The most experienced team in the SEC. & would struggle to beat ICC right now. YES we literally did get to this point OVER NIGHT!

We did not return 19 of 22 starters from last season.

[HancockCountyDog]

Zavion Thomas has definitely gotten better. I think Woody has gotten better, but that is more scheme than anything. I think Shawn Preston has been playing way better this season.

[Homedawg]

We returned 19 of 22 starters from a 9 win team. The most experienced team in the SEC. & would struggle to beat ICC right now. YES we literally did get to this point OVER NIGHT!

Im not defending the present staff, they've been poor on all counts. But at least get your facts right. We lost 7 DEFENSiVE starters. So your math isn't close to correct. This has been covered before.

[662dawg]

Im not defending the present staff, they've been poor on all counts. But at least get your facts right. We lost 7 DEFENSiVE starters. So your math isn't close to correct. This has been covered before.

I counted them myself & didn't rely on an article. Guess I was considering Preston, Jordan Davis, Pickering, Crumedy & Russell returning starters since they had started several times before to go along with Jett, Watson & Richardson. And in fact Ellington & Preston have been upgrades at safety not downgrades.

So I just looked it up & I am 100 correct about the experience. We returned EIGHTY percent of the production from last year. EIGHTY percent from a NINE WIN TEAM & it now looks like a terribly coached junior college team. Dispute those facts.

OUR SHIT SHOW DID HAPPENED OVER NIGHT. There's no excuse for what this has become.

From the article:

"Mississippi State, 80 percent
MSU leads all SEC teams by returning 80 percent of its production from 2021. The Bulldogs have a veteran quarterback in Will Rogers and lost only three big playmakers to the NFL last season."

I disagree with Bucky about Will most of the time, but he's absolutely right about the shit show currently in Starkville & I was one of the ones willing to give it a chance & believed in it at the beginning.

[JimBobDawg]

Is it coaching or scheme making them better? Or it just the fact they are another year more experienced. Walley obviously burned a bridge somewhere with not only staff but with other players. The team just looks bad all the way around. Just unprepared, undisciplined, uninspired. Maybe Leach?s death has affected some of them mentally. Maybe they weren?t they good to start with. But I cannot understand how Walley in 3 years has gotten worse and completely disappeared. Maybe he got tired of crossing the middle for catches and getting blown up on tackles. Maybe the TE addition eliminated him from the depth chart. I don?t see the need for a tight end who cannot block air anyway. Spread out 4 wide and make the defense cover grass again dammit!
Has a TE even caught a pass for us this year?

[confucius say]

I counted them myself & didn't rely on an article. Guess I was considering Preston, Jordan Davis, Pickering, Crumedy & Russell returning starters since they had started several times before to go along with Jett, Watson & Richardson. And in fact Ellington & Preston have been upgrades at safety not downgrades.

So I just looked it up & I am 100 correct about the experience. We returned EIGHTY percent of the production from last year. EIGHTY percent from a NINE WIN TEAM & it now looks like a terribly coached junior college team. Dispute those facts.

OUR SHIT SHOW DID HAPPENED OVER NIGHT. There's no excuse for what this has become.

From the article:

"Mississippi State, 80 percent
MSU leads all SEC teams by returning 80 percent of its production from 2021. The Bulldogs have a veteran quarterback in Will Rogers and lost only three big playmakers to the NFL last season."

I disagree with Bucky about Will most of the time, but he's absolutely right about the shit show currently in Starkville & I was one of the ones willing to give it a chance & believed in it at the beginning.

Ellington is not an upgrade over green or matthews.
Crumedy is already counted as a returning starter.
Davis, picketing, and Russell are all drop offs from last years starters. We got worse at 6 of the 11 spots (young, wheat, charleton, Forbes, green, matthews).

That 80% production is offense. Go look at the defense returning production. Very low, even with Jett and bookie. And when you remove will (not to mention marks) from the returning offensive production equation, that number gets real low.

This staff has still been bad though.

[Really Clark?]

I counted them myself & didn't rely on an article. Guess I was considering Preston, Jordan Davis, Pickering, Crumedy & Russell returning starters since they had started several times before to go along with Jett, Watson & Richardson. And in fact Ellington & Preston have been upgrades at safety not downgrades.

So I just looked it up & I am 100 correct about the experience. We returned EIGHTY percent of the production from last year. EIGHTY percent from a NINE WIN TEAM & it now looks like a terribly coached junior college team. Dispute those facts.

OUR SHIT SHOW DID HAPPENED OVER NIGHT. There's no excuse for what this has become.

From the article:

"Mississippi State, 80 percent
MSU leads all SEC teams by returning 80 percent of its production from 2021. The Bulldogs have a veteran quarterback in Will Rogers and lost only three big playmakers to the NFL last season."

I disagree with Bucky about Will most of the time, but he's absolutely right about the shit show currently in Starkville & I was one of the ones willing to give it a chance & believed in it at the beginning.

Returning 80% of production is not the same as returning 19 of 22 starters. But did you read what you pasted from that quote? That quote was from the 2021 team

Just looking at our WR's, we lost 20 of 36 receiving TD's from last years team. That's a lot of production gone from just that group.

[DownwardDawg]

I agree and I'm sick of reading about the past and blaming Leach. I wasn't a AR guy but I love winning, blaming others for ones fault is silly. Hey, either you can make good decisions or you can't same with getting advice, you can receive good advice or receive bad advice, when you do and things go wrong quit blaming others, own up to your mistakes. Lord knows Arnett has made his bed up and still hasn't got it right. You have to Coach them up, we are not well Coached regardless. Way too many excuses by a few posters, it's disgusting to me, and yeah, I coached doesn't matter what sport, either you know or you don't. Sorry for the rant.
I agree 100%

[662dawg]

Ellington is not an upgrade over green or matthews.
Crumedy is already counted as a returning starter.
Davis, picketing, and Russell are all drop offs from last years starters. We got worse at 6 of the 11 spots (young, wheat, charleton, Forbes, green, matthews).

That 80% production is offense. Go look at the defense returning production. Very low, even with Jett and bookie. And when you remove will (not to mention marks) from the returning offensive production equation, that number gets real low.

This staff has still been bad though.

We watched a different Green & Matthews I'm assuming... They weren't horrible but they weren't great either

[DownwardDawg]

Dillon Johnson is on another team so thar wouldn't count. DJ wasn't a hapless victim. What he tweeted on the way out revealed he had issues.

With that being said this year is awful and it feels bad to see it going the way it is but I still don't think it quite touches the way 2018 went. We had a real shot to win the conference that year.

Yes I know. I was making light of the situation.

[Really Clark?]

We watched a different Green & Matthews I'm assuming... They weren't horrible but they weren't great either.

And NO it's TOTAL team production. Both sides of the ball. In fact, MSU was #12 in the nation & #1 in the SEC according to returning production .

"SEC Football: Each Conference Team's Returning Production Ahead of the 2022 Season
Here's where each SEC team stands in terms of returning production heading into the 2022 college football season."

This is the 2023 season not 2022

[662dawg]

This is the 2023 season not 2022

I know that. I was just seeing if y'all would catch it 😁

[Really Clark?]

I know that. I was just seeing if y'all would catch it ��

Lol

https://media3.giphy.com/media/21S35iv1C67ns2g458/giphy.gif

[662dawg]

Lol

https://media3.giphy.com/media/21S35iv1C67ns2g458/giphy.gif

Yes I was wrong but this staff is still a shit show. Now I dare you to prove that wrong 😜

[Really Clark?]

Yes I was wrong but this staff is still a shit show. Now I dare you to prove that wrong 😜

Don't tempt me!! Daring me to prove someone wrong is like a red cape in front of a bull!! Hahaha

[RezDog7]

Name me one player who has gotten better from 2022. I will wait.

After your number comes to zero then think about how we have allowed a group of people to basically take your 2023 football season away from you. Leach had his faults we needed to tweak some things and Dudek needed to go, but how much more fun was it than this? How much harder did the kids play? Never forget what they took from you

How many times are going to post the same thing and make it sound like the fans killed Leach. I mean, wtf dude. He died. Nobody on this board made the decision to hire Arnett or anybody else. This is stupid.

[Bothrops]

Dillon Johnson is much better. Lol

He's the same, he's just running in the conference soon to be formally known as PAC.

[BrunswickDawg]

I counted them myself & didn't rely on an article. Guess I was considering Preston, Jordan Davis, Pickering, Crumedy & Russell returning starters since they had started several times before to go along with Jett, Watson & Richardson. And in fact Ellington & Preston have been upgrades at safety not downgrades.

So I just looked it up & I am 100 correct about the experience. We returned EIGHTY percent of the production from last year. EIGHTY percent from a NINE WIN TEAM & it now looks like a terribly coached junior college team. Dispute those facts.

OUR SHIT SHOW DID HAPPENED OVER NIGHT. There's no excuse for what this has become.

From the article:

"Mississippi State, 80 percent
MSU leads all SEC teams by returning 80 percent of its production from 2021. The Bulldogs have a veteran quarterback in Will Rogers and lost only three big playmakers to the NFL last season."

I disagree with Bucky about Will most of the time, but he's absolutely right about the shit show currently in Starkville & I was one of the ones willing to give it a chance & believed in it at the beginning.

The question to me would be "what do you consider a starter?" Is it a guy who got a start or two, or the person who primarily started at the position?
Just looking at the guys you mentioned:
Preston - 4 starts late in '22; 3 starts late in '21; 6 starts late in '20 - Strong contributor but his history says he was 2nd or 3rd string getting to play late due to injuries.
Davis - 2 starts in '22; missed '21; 0 starts in '20 - oft injured talent who has ZERO starts in '23.
Pickering - No doubt a returning starter
Crumedy - definitely a returning starter after missing most of '22

So lets look at primary starts from '22 no longer here:
Defense: Jalen Green (10 Starts), Tyrus Wheat (12), Randy Charlton (11), Jackie Matthews (11), Emmanuel Forbes (12), Collin Duncan (13), Cam Young (13)
Offense: RaRa Thomas (7), Caleb Ducking (12), Dillon Johnson (6), LaQuinston Sharp (12), Austin Williams (13). You can argue for Rufus Harvey (6)being on this too

That is 13 primary starters of 22 gone. Then throw in Rogers and Marks being hurt and thats 15. You can argue that Jaden Walley being non-existent removes another primary starer (7 starts last season).

I'm not saying this to give an excuse. We have a bunch of old guys who haven't played a whole lot expected to replace much better talent. It didn't pan out well.

[662dawg]

The question to me would be "what do you consider a starter?" Is it a guy who got a start or two, or the person who primarily started at the position?
Just looking at the guys you mentioned:
Preston - 4 starts late in '22; 3 starts late in '21; 6 starts late in '20 - Strong contributor but his history says he was 2nd or 3rd string getting to play late due to injuries.
Davis - 2 starts in '22; missed '21; 0 starts in '20 - oft injured talent who has ZERO starts in '23.
Pickering - No doubt a returning starter
Crumedy - definitely a returning starter after missing most of '22

So lets look at primary starts from '22 no longer here:
Defense: Jalen Green (10 Starts), Tyrus Wheat (12), Randy Charlton (11), Jackie Matthews (11), Emmanuel Forbes (12), Collin Duncan (13), Cam Young (13)
Offense: RaRa Thomas (7), Caleb Ducking (12), Dillon Johnson (6), LaQuinston Sharp (12), Austin Williams (13). You can argue for Rufus Harvey (6)being on this too

That is 13 primary starters of 22 gone. Then throw in Rogers and Marks being hurt and thats 15. You can argue that Jaden Walley being non-existent removes another primary starer (7 starts last season).

I'm not saying this to give an excuse. We have a bunch of old guys who haven't played a whole lot expected to replace much better talent. It didn't pan out well.

Forbes is the only one that's "much better talent".

[BrunswickDawg]

Forbes is the only one that's "much better talent".

Cam Young is on an NFL roster. RaRa is averaging 16 yards a catch for the 2 time defending champs and has more yards than anyone on our team not named Tulu. Tyrus Wheat was playing last week for the Cowboys. Dillon Johnson ran for over 250 yards Saturday night for the probable PAC 12 champs.

And if these guys are "much better talent", they sure as hell aren't showing it.

[confucius say]

Forbes is the only one that's "much better talent".

So purvis is right there with wheat unh? Gracious.

[BuckyIsAB****]

How many times are going to post the same thing and make it sound like the fans killed Leach. I mean, wtf dude. He died. Nobody on this board made the decision to hire Arnett or anybody else. This is stupid.

If thats what you took from what I said Im sorry idk how to tel you