How about an AR Cult update?

[Coach34]

Let's start with Washington State. The Coug's scored 7 points yesterday with 245 yards of offense against 3-6 Stanford.

Western Kentucky? 102 yards passing and 280 yards of offense in their thrilling 21-13 win over 3-7 UTEP

Locke and Wisky lost to Indiana 20-14 breaking Indiana's 6 game losing streak.

USC scored 42 points but was shutout in the 4th and lost. Lincoln better learn that he needs to sign some guys to play defense.

The GOAT Offense off to a slow November start

[Todd4State]

How about an update on the offense you think is going in the right direction?

[RezDog7]

You're worse than the people that love the AR. We literally have some of the worst fans and it's not close.

[DownwardDawg]

The AR folks are kicking your ass right now. They live rent free in your head and your offense is 17'n croom level. Enjoy

I'm embarrassed for you

[msstate7]

The AR folks are kicking your ass right now. They live rent free in your head and your offense is 17'n croom level. Enjoy

Weren't the ones the AR guys wanted hollinshead and spurrier? If so, looks like no one was right

[Goldendawg]

I was at the game last night and every home game to date. This "offense" we have now looked terrible since game one and the in over it's head "HC" and mainly rookie staff has looked lost to boot.

[Coach34]

How about an update on the offense you think is going in the right direction?

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

[confucius say]

We weren't winning with our starter either.

[msstate7]

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

I don't want this to be used as an excuse to keep arnett, but it really is a good point. Wisconsin can't win with Locke against a horrible opponent, aTm can't win without weigman, and our offense has gone from bad to horrible with wright

[Goldendawg]

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

AZ looking good since their QB change. Bet they are kicking their butts for losing to us. Cook anything interesting for breakfast or planning a big brunch? Emeril wants to know.***

[msstate7]

AZ looking good since their QB change. Bet they are kicking their butts for losing to us. Cook anything interesting for breakfast or planning a big brunch? Emeril wants to know.***

That's a good example.

It would be interesting to see back up qb records in sec games the last 5-10 seasons

[Todd4State]

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

I thought this offense worked better with a mobile QB?

You got what you wanted and are wrong.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I don't want this to be used as an excuse to keep arnett, but it really is a good point. Wisconsin can't win with Locke against a horrible opponent, aTm can't win without weigman, and our offense has gone from bad to horrible with wright

It's only a good point of the offense was decent with the starter. But with Will we had ONE good game- at SC, and that was only a good game because they couldn't figure out how to cover Tulu and Will had a rare game where he's willing to chuck it deep. Vs every other team? Tulu wasn't getting open and the offense sucked.

So yeah, we're worse with Wright vs Will, BUT the awful OL play and dumbass personnel decision to play a TE has killed the offense all season

[msstate7]

It's only a good point of the offense was decent with the starter. But with Will we had ONE good game- at SC, and that was only a good game because they couldn't figure out how to cover Tulu and Will had a rare game where he's willing to chuck it deep. Vs every other team? Tulu wasn't getting open and the offense sucked.

So yeah, we're worse with Wright vs Will, BUT the awful OL play and dumbass personnel decision to play a TE has killed the offense all season

I'm fine with adding a te. It would be nice if we actually had a decent one... thanks NCAA

[dawgday166]

It's only a good point of the offense was decent with the starter. But with Will we had ONE good game- at SC, and that was only a good game because they couldn't figure out how to cover Tulu and Will had a rare game where he's willing to chuck it deep. Vs every other team? Tulu wasn't getting open and the offense sucked.

So yeah, we're worse with Wright vs Will, BUT the awful OL play and dumbass personnel decision to play a TE has killed the offense all season

USCe is 108 in Scoring D and 129 in Passing D. We're playing teams without a pulse and losing because we have even less of a pulse.

[MaroonFlounder]

Let's start with Washington State. The Coug's scored 7 points yesterday with 245 yards of offense against 3-6 Stanford.

Western Kentucky? 102 yards passing and 280 yards of offense in their thrilling 21-13 win over 3-7 UTEP

Locke and Wisky lost to Indiana 20-14 breaking Indiana's 6 game losing streak.

USC scored 42 points but was shutout in the 4th and lost. Lincoln better learn that he needs to sign some guys to play defense.

The GOAT Offense off to a slow November start

Point taken. But is your 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense any better?

[CadaverDawg]

1. The air raid sucks
2. Arnett and Barbay's offense, the WTFAWED offense (what the F are we even doing) is even worse
3. Most fans with a brain prefer neither, and are actually the ones being proven right.

[MaroonFlounder]

I thought this offense worked better with a mobile QB?

You got what you wanted and are wrong.

Yep. The Mike Wright cult is even more clueless than the air raid cult.

Barbay is so lost on how to move the ball on an SEC defense, it is shocking.

[Goldendawg]

It's only a good point of the offense was decent with the starter. But with Will we had ONE good game- at SC, and that was only a good game because they couldn't figure out how to cover Tulu and Will had a rare game where he's willing to chuck it deep. Vs every other team? Tulu wasn't getting open and the offense sucked.

So yeah, we're worse with Wright vs Will, BUT the awful OL play and dumbass personnel decision to play a TE has killed the offense all season

But, but, we have two, 2, OL coaches and a 3rd or 4th string GA portal player who has yet to catch a pass in what 4 years, a converted Freshman OL, and a converted WR at TE. Talk about a lost staff putting the best players on the field!

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Let's start with Washington State. The Coug's scored 7 points yesterday with 245 yards of offense against 3-6 Stanford.

Western Kentucky? 102 yards passing and 280 yards of offense in their thrilling 21-13 win over 3-7 UTEP

Locke and Wisky lost to Indiana 20-14 breaking Indiana's 6 game losing streak.

USC scored 42 points but was shutout in the 4th and lost. Lincoln better learn that he needs to sign some guys to play defense.

The GOAT Offense off to a slow November start

Please just STFU.

[msstate7]

Yep. The Mike Wright cult is even more clueless than the air raid cult.

Barbay is so lost on how to move the ball on an SEC defense, it is shocking.

Let me preface by saying I want arnett and staff gone, but our transition to AR was rough (100+ in total offense in 2020) and the transition away from it has been rough (100+ in total offense this season). Hopefully whoever we have next season won't have to deal with drastic transitions

[Goldendawg]

I'm fine with adding a te. It would be nice if we actually had a decent one... thanks NCAA

Might have helped some to have him but his stats at TCU not that great receiving, but he may have been a great blocker. None of our portal guys have panned out. This staff cannot coach, evaluate, game plan or keep fans in their seats for more than about a half now.

[Goldendawg]

1. The air raid sucks
2. Arnett and Barbay's offense, the WTFAWED offense (what the F are we even doing) is even worse
3. Most fans with a brain prefer neither, and are actually the ones being proven right.

Sad, but I knew exactly what your "WTFAWED" meant with no explanation needed. H_ll State!, what are we doing or not doing on so many levels?

[dawgday166]

Let me preface by saying I want arnett and staff gone, but our transition to AR was rough (100+ in total offense in 2020) and the transition away from it has been rough (100+ in total offense this season). Hopefully whoever we have next season won't have to deal with drastic transitions

Do you think in 2020 it's possible, just slightly/remotely possible, that playing with no spring practice, not even any face-to-face time with the team leading up to fall camp and the season, playing with partial teams due to Covid, playing an all-SEC schedule, playing with an all-freshmen backfield and a very, very young Oline ... might've had anything to do with all of that???

Probably not I guess ****

[msstate7]

Do you think in 2020 it's possible, just slightly/remotely possible, that playing with no spring practice, not even any face-to-face time with the team leading up to fall camp and the season, playing with partial teams due to Covid, playing an all-SEC schedule, playing with an all-freshmen backfield and a very, very young Oline ... might've had anything to do with all of that???

Probably not I guess ****

Did the teams we play get that extra practice time? What's leach's 1st year look like in other places (honestly don't know)? Lane's 1st year was 2020... how'd he do?

If you're honest with yourself, you'll acknowledge lane's first year was much easier bc he wasn't making such a hater transition

[dawgday166]

Did the teams we play get that extra practice time? What's leach's 1st year look like in other places (honestly don't know)? Lane's 1st year was 2020... how'd he do?

I'm just saying you're not comparing apples to apples between 2020 and now. Texas Tech was 7 - 6. WSU 3-9. Not sure of Kiffin's roster but I imagine there was more experience on offense than what we had going for us. And go look at the schedules too. They didn't play GA at GA and Bama at Bama either. Their TAM game was cancelled. They won one more regular season than we did. They beat us in Oxford by 7 points when we had 47 players that dressed out due to Covid.

And you absolutely were all over Leach all year long. But this FUBAR you keep defending to the hilt.

I know ... you hate Leach. Got it.

[msstate7]

I'm just saying you're not comparing apples to apples between 2020 and now. Texas Tech was 7 - 6. WSU 3-9. Not sure of Kiffin's roster but I imagine there was more experience on offense than what we had going for us. And go look at the schedules too. They didn't play GA at GA and Bama at Bama either. Their TAM game was cancelled. They won one more regular season than we did. They beat us in Oxford by 7 points when we had 47 players that dressed out due to Covid.

And you absolutely were all over Leach all year long. But this FUBAR you keep defending to the hilt.

I know ... you hate Leach. Got it.

I literally just said I want this staff fired. If I'm a hypocrite then you are too bc you took the exact opposite position in 2020.

[dawgday166]

I literally just said I want this staff fired. If I'm a hypocrite then you are too bc you took the exact opposite position in 2020.

No ... I'm not. I was giving this staff a little rope until I figured out what all was going on. I try to be behind any new coach.

This ain't an all-freshmen team. The competition we're playing is beyond horrible. Taking Bama out of both schedules (2020 and now), our 3 lowest scoring games added up to 26 pts in 2020. Our last 3 games with a bunch of Sr and Grads add up to 23 pts. FUBAR

JoMo tore down Mullen's culture. This staff has torn down Leach's (and I'm not talking about AR either).

ETA: COACHING is about more than X's & O's.

[Homedawg]

I'm just saying you're not comparing apples to apples between 2020 and now. Texas Tech was 7 - 6. WSU 3-9. Not sure of Kiffin's roster but I imagine there was more experience on offense than what we had going for us. And go look at the schedules too. They didn't play GA at GA and Bama at Bama either. Their TAM game was cancelled. They won one more regular season than we did. They beat us in Oxford by 7 points when we had 47 players that dressed out due to Covid.

And you absolutely were all over Leach all year long. But this FUBAR you keep defending to the hilt.

I know ... you hate Leach. Got it.

Another w the bs line that someone hates Leach. Nowhere has he ever said that. Ever. Find one person that said that. And bring it back. Just stop w that terrible made up crock.

[DownwardDawg]

1. The air raid sucks
2. Arnett and Barbay's offense, the WTFAWED offense (what the F are we even doing) is even worse
3. Most fans with a brain prefer neither, and are actually the ones being proven right.

Haha! I didn't even need the parentheses. I read right through those letters knowing every word!!

[dawgday166]

Another w the bs line that someone hates Leach. Nowhere has he ever said that. Ever. Find one person that said that. And bring it back. Just stop w that terrible made up crock.

Ok ... whatever. He hasn't said it but he was all over Leach in 2020 cause I was scratching my head about it cause 7's usually pretty objective and reasonable. Maybe he just hated the offense. I wanted some tweaks and wanted to see a different QB in the system too on down the road. And I thought Leach was moving in that direction with a little time.

The "crock" about the "AR Cult" is the same type of crock.

[Wink&aPrayer]

Let's start with Washington State. The Coug's scored 7 points yesterday with 245 yards of offense against 3-6 Stanford.

Western Kentucky? 102 yards passing and 280 yards of offense in their thrilling 21-13 win over 3-7 UTEP

Locke and Wisky lost to Indiana 20-14 breaking Indiana's 6 game losing streak.

USC scored 42 points but was shutout in the 4th and lost. Lincoln better learn that he needs to sign some guys to play defense.

The GOAT Offense off to a slow November start

its beyond awesome, isn't it

[preachermatt83]

No ... I'm not. I was giving this staff a little rope until I figured out what all was going on. I try to be behind any new coach.

This ain't an all-freshmen team. The competition we're playing is beyond horrible. Taking Bama out of both schedules (2020 and now), our 3 lowest scoring games added up to 26 pts in 2020. Our last 3 games with a bunch of Sr and Grads add up to 23 pts. FUBAR

JoMo tore down Mullen's culture. This staff has torn down Leach's (and I'm not talking about AR either).

ETA: COACHING is about more than X's & O's.

Very well said

[msudawg1200]

At some point in life it just pays to shut the hell up. I'm sure you've had many of those points in your life, and this is just another. You look dumber and dumber with every thread you start.

[KB21]

The Leach haters are always the first to chirp about being called Leach Haters.

[CadaverDawg]

The Leach haters are always the first to chirp about being called Leach Haters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

The air raid sucked. Our offense under Leach was boring and inefficient. I loved Leach the man, but I didn't love his offense.

That being said....I never wanted to replace him with Zach freaking Arnett.

If given the choice, I would have never wanted the Air Raid OR the Barbay offense, bc they both stink. The Barbay offense just somehow stinks much worse.

[KB21]

The Air Raid is the best college system there is.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Troll

[Todd4State]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

The air raid sucked. Our offense under Leach was boring and inefficient. I loved Leach the man, but I didn't love his offense.

That being said....I never wanted to replace him with Zach freaking Arnett.

If given the choice, I would have never wanted the Air Raid OR the Barbay offense, bc they both stink. The Barbay offense just somehow stinks much worse.

It somehow stinks worse because we have no offensive identity. There is never anything to build off of from week to week. We run some wide zone and some of the slowest developing sweeps and reverses I have ever seen in my life. And I don't know what the hell the reverse shovel pass looking abomination of a play was supposed to be that we ran.

And contrary to the promises in the offseason we do not put our best 11 on the field. And that prevents us from getting production from guys like Creed or maximizing Justin Robinson. Sure, maybe Leach had Tulu out of position but at least he was actually on the field somewhere the majority of the time. Then we have some people blaming recruiting when we're not even putting our best guys out there?

We also don't attack deep in this offense either. I think Will was only like 2-3 passes ahead of where he was last year in that category compared to last year at the time he was injured.

Basically Woody McBarbay's offense is running around doing shifts and finding overcomplicated ways to hand the ball off. It's Croom with a lot of window dressing out of the shotgun.

[Homedawg]

The Leach haters are always the first to chirp about being called Leach Haters.

Again, find one time where someone said, they hate Mike leach. Just once. You're full of shit and trying to stir shit up.

[Goldendawg]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

The air raid sucked. Our offense under Leach was boring and inefficient. I loved Leach the man, but I didn't love his offense.

That being said....I never wanted to replace him with Zach freaking Arnett.

If given the choice, I would have never wanted the Air Raid OR the Barbay offense, bc they both stink. The Barbay offense just somehow stinks much worse.

Don't leave out the JoMo O. Shira, Felker, Croom & JoMo, time we caught a break on hiring a good HC. We should be better than this on and off the field.

[dawgday166]

It somehow stinks worse because we have no offensive identity. There is never anything to build off of from week to week. We run some wide zone and some of the slowest developing sweeps and reverses I have ever seen in my life. And I don't know what the hell the reverse shovel pass looking abomination of a play was supposed to be that we ran.

And contrary to the promises in the offseason we do not put our best 11 on the field. And that prevents us from getting production from guys like Creed or maximizing Justin Robinson. Sure, maybe Leach had Tulu out of position but at least he was actually on the field somewhere the majority of the time. Then we have some people blaming recruiting when we're not even putting our best guys out there?

We also don't attack deep in this offense either. I think Will was only like 2-3 passes ahead of where he was last year in that category compared to last year at the time he was injured.

Basically Woody McBarbay's offense is running around doing shifts and finding overcomplicated ways to hand the ball off. It's Croom with a lot of window dressing out of the shotgun.

I love all the damn reverses and double reverses we keep trying that every suck ass D we face look like they knew it was coming 2 plays before we tried it LOL.


Napkins at Two Brothers after several rounds of beer SMH Gotta get to Two Brothers for strategy sessions.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch the stupid, no talent players are in shorter duration practices and not getting the additional drills and reps they should be getting.

[Todd4State]

I love all the damn reverses and double reverses we keep trying that every suck ass D we face look like they knew it was coming 2 plays before we tried it LOL.


Napkins at Two Brothers after several rounds of beer SMH Gotta get to Two Brothers for strategy sessions.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch the stupid, no talent players are in shorter duration practices and not getting the additional drills and reps they should be getting.

I don't have a problem at all with jet sweeps, end around, and reverses but they do need to be well executed. I actually wish Leach ran more of those than he did.

The biggest issues we have currently with them is:

1. We probably run too many of them. It's a long developing play even if it is well executed so an element of surprise helps.

2. We don't block very well and sometimes our guys run into each other.

3. We sometimes run them when we shouldn't like in the red zone when we know the other team is likely going to be blitzing hard.

I don't like the short practices. Every now and then? Sure. But consistently it's probably not a good idea.

[Lord McBuckethead]

We scored 3 pts at home against Kentucky.
That 3 points took a 20 play drive.

Give me the air raid.

[R2Dawg]

1. The air raid sucks
2. Arnett and Barbay's offense, the WTFAWED offense (what the F are we even doing) is even worse
3. Most fans with a brain prefer neither, and are actually the ones being proven right.

Cadaver you are correct again. Just because our O sucks now doesn't mean the AR is great or would work.

Fact is AR sucks, what we are doing now sucks mostly because we don't have the players and worst coaching job in America.

Fans attacking each other spiking the football makes the MSU fanbase the most ignorant in college sports. Please quit making us all look bad.

[R2Dawg]

We scored 3 pts at home against Kentucky.
That 3 points took a 20 play drive.

Give me the air raid.

You mean the one that has a .333 winning % against UK? That put up 0 in Lexington that year? Yeah right.

[Goldendawg]

I don't have a problem at all with jet sweeps, end around, and reverses but they do need to be well executed. I actually wish Leach ran more of those than he did.

The biggest issues we have currently with them is:

1. We probably run too many of them. It's a long developing play even if it is well executed so an element of surprise helps.

2. We don't block very well and sometimes our guys run into each other.

3. We sometimes run them when we shouldn't like in the red zone when we know the other team is likely going to be blitzing hard.

I don't like the short practices. Every now and then? Sure. But consistently it's probably not a good idea.

Point 2, we need more OL coaches. Two does not seem to be enough.

[Santiago]

You're worse than the people that love the AR. We literally have some of the worst fans and it's not close.

This!
It is definitely an indication of a mindset of a portion of our fans

[dawgday166]

Delete

[KB21]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38556301/stories-air-raid-offense-revolutionized-football?platform=amp

The Air Raid is alive and still thriving. The fact that Mike Leach changed the way the game is played and is on the Mt Rushmore for offensive coaches must chap some asses on here.

I will always respect coaches who came up with new ways of playing offense and got the football world away from the he dinosaur days of offensive football.

[Saltydog]

Bam, Head shot......Instant kill........

[KB21]

"The Air Raid is not an offense," TCU coach Sonny Dykes said. "The Air Raid is a way of life."

"It's a mentality," Riley said, "more than a collection of plays."

[Santiago]

I love all the damn reverses and double reverses we keep trying that every suck ass D we face look like they knew it was coming 2 plays before we tried it LOL.


Napkins at Two Brothers after several rounds of beer SMH Gotta get to Two Brothers for strategy sessions.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch the stupid, no talent players are in shorter duration practices and not getting the additional drills and reps they should be getting.

The reverses are becoming the "Holloway up the middle" predictability.

[dawgday166]

You mean the one that has a .333 winning % against UK? That put up 0 in Lexington that year? Yeah right.

You mean in Leach's and AR's 3rd game ever at MSU, without a spring install, in Will's 1st start ever due to injuries, as a true Freshman on the road in a very hostile environment? The night everyone on this board melted down because how bad our offense sucked? And now that same excuse is being given for last night's debacle?

Leach won 4 SEC games each of the last 2 years. Mullen only won more the 4 one time. He won 4 four times, and 2 one time too. Last year we lost to the #5, #9, #11, #33 ranked Scoring Ds and beat the #1 Scoring D in a Bowl game. That's a lot tougher competition by far than what we're facing this year.

Context matters. But whatever ... folks gonna keep arguing it forever. And the coaching hire will probably not work out well either.

[Santiago]

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

Wait , so you intentionally use Wisconsin offense knowing their starter is out and it is the first year in the system without WRs, and Locke is starting as a redshirt freshman......then you defend MSU saying we have a backup playing.
We all see you and others around the Bryan building have an issue with it.

[R2Dawg]

You mean in Leach's and AR's 3rd game ever at MSU, without a spring install, in Will's 1st start ever due to injuries, as a true Freshman on the road in a very hostile environment? The night everyone on this board melted down because how bad our offense sucked? And now that same excuse is being given for last night's debacle?

Leach won 4 SEC games each of the last 2 years. Mullen only won more the 4 one time. He won 4 four times, and 2 one time too. Last year we lost to the #5, #9, #11, #33 ranked Scoring Ds and beat the #1 Scoring D in a Bowl game. That's a lot tougher competition by far than what we're facing this year.

Context matters. But whatever ... folks gonna keep arguing it forever. And the coaching hire will probably not work out well either.

Oh, you mean Leach gets a pass for 1st year but no other HC or team or O does? Oh I see.

Oh and we have injuries now too but Oh you don't count that now do you. Oh I see.

If the AR worked so great we wouldn't be debating this.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Oh, you mean Leach gets a pass for 1st year but no other HC or team or O does? Oh I see.

Oh and we have injuries now too but Oh you don't count that now do you. Oh I see.

If the AR worked so great we wouldn't be debating this.

Just a horrible attempt. 9 and 4.... I will take it.

[msudawg1200]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

The air raid sucked. Our offense under Leach was boring and inefficient. I loved Leach the man, but I didn't love his offense.

That being said....I never wanted to replace him with Zach freaking Arnett.

If given the choice, I would have never wanted the Air Raid OR the Barbay offense, bc they both stink. The Barbay offense just somehow stinks much worse.

This is the correct answer for most that are conidered by the C34 knob slobbers as the "AR Cult"

[dawgday166]

Oh, you mean Leach gets a pass for 1st year but no other HC or team or O does? Oh I see.

Oh and we have injuries now too but Oh you don't count that now do you. Oh I see.

If the AR worked so great we wouldn't be debating this.

That's not what I'm saying. Here's some of the things I have taken into consideration: 1) The board went into complete meltdown mode that night when Will started his first game as a FR in Lexington. Everyone was irate about it. A few of us tried to point out all the adversity that team had faced and were shouted down. 2020 was not a normal year by any stretch of the imagination. And that was on top of the dumpster fire Leach inherited and Leach having a very young overall team 2) The same folks that melted down that night are now trying to make one excuse after under much less adverse conditions. ZA didn't inherit a dumpster fire where the inmates were running the asylum, he has no Covid BS to deal with, there was a solid culture in place and he has very experienced football team. Leach also face some of the injury issues that ZA may be facing now.

Not only that, we saw improvement as the season went along with Leach. We scrapped hard with UGA, and showed some other solid flashes.

Overall with Leach, we were moving in the right direction and winning games. The whole mantra for promoting Zach to HC was to not take such a huge step back and a lot of promises were made about that and then actions were taken that did just the opposite.

Bottom line tho is Leach was a divisive character. Regardless of what people say about having "never said they hated Leach", they had preconceived opinions about him long before he ever stepped foot on our campus as HC. I did too ... and Spiderman, who never shows up to this board anymore, convinced me to check Leach out more thoroughly and when I did, I liked about every video I watched and Leach's approach and culture. His teams hit people, were tough, and physical. My mind changed about Leach.

Doesn't mean I didn't think we need to improve things under Leach either but just look at Parson the other night. Way too early to tell but he has talent, can run, has nimble feet, strong arm, etc. I saw where Leach was trying to improve and while he's doing that he's still winning 4 SEC games each of the last 2 years and 8 overall reg season games last year.

People say he recruited bad and maybe that's so, but his rankings are the same as we've always had as a general rule. We seem light on Jrs but that also was the year all the recruiting was done via Zoom for the most part. No one takes that into consideration.

So the main point is: The ones making excuses now and begging for more time had a preconceived idea about Leach, his offense, etc. And they pounced every time, there was a misstep in the offense. When we won convincingly or had big comebacks ... crickets. We had a bad game and/or lost ... piranhas. And now ... begging for patience with a HC that was here with Leach, inherited a very mature team, and yet trashed the Leach entire culture for the most part. ZA and this staff inherited one of the better situations any new HC will inherit.

It's all a moot point now except the product on the field anyway. Which is about as bad if not worse than Croom level.

ETA: Leach the man is dead, his AR doesn't exist anymore, and if the folks running things now wanna keep bashing him, his AR, and then making him the sole reason for everything they're doing wrong that produce the results we're currently seeing on the field, so be it. Of course now they're reaching for other reasons like NIL and such. I imagine that will continue from here on out.

[Homedawg]

That's not what I'm saying. Here's some of the things I have taken into consideration: 1) The board went into complete meltdown mode that night when Will started his first game as a FR in Lexington. Everyone was irate about it. A few of us tried to point out all the adversity that team had faced and were shouted down. 2020 was not a normal year by any stretch of the imagination. And that was on top of the dumpster fire Leach inherited and Leach having a very young overall team 2) The same folks that melted down that night are now trying to make one excuse after under much less adverse conditions. ZA didn't inherit a dumpster fire where the inmates were running the asylum, he has no Covid BS to deal with, there was a solid culture in place and he has very experienced football team. Leach also face some of the injury issues that ZA may be facing now.

Not only that, we saw improvement as the season went along with Leach. We scrapped hard with UGA, and showed some other solid flashes.

Overall with Leach, we were moving in the right direction and winning games. The whole mantra for promoting Zach to HC was to not take such a huge step back and a lot of promises were made about that and then actions were taken that did just the opposite.

Bottom line tho is Leach was a divisive character. Regardless of what people say about having "never said they hated Leach", they had preconceived opinions about him long before he ever stepped foot on our campus as HC. I did too ... and Spiderman, who never shows up to this board anymore, convinced me to check Leach out more thoroughly and when I did, I liked about every video I watched and Leach's approach and culture. His teams hit people, were tough, and physical. My mind changed about Leach.

Doesn't mean I didn't think we need to improve things under Leach either but just look at Parson the other night. Way too early to tell but he has talent, can run, has nimble feet, strong arm, etc. I saw where Leach was trying to improve and while he's doing that he's still winning 4 SEC games each of the last 2 years and 8 overall reg season games last year.

People say he recruited bad and maybe that's so, but his rankings are the same as we've always had as a general rule. We seem light on Jrs but that also was the year all the recruiting was done via Zoom for the most part. No one takes that into consideration.

So the main point is: The ones making excuses now and begging for more time had a preconceived idea about Leach, his offense, etc. And they pounced every time, there was a misstep in the offense. When we won convincingly or had big comebacks ... crickets. We had a bad game and/or lost ... piranhas. And now ... begging for patience with a HC that was here with Leach, inherited a very mature team, and yet trashed the Leach entire culture for the most part. ZA and this staff inherited one of the better situations any new HC will inherit.

It's all a moot point now except the product on the field anyway. Which is about as bad if not worse than Croom level.

Will started v/ kentucky??? In 2020?? Pretty sure Costello just stunk and then we put Will in.

[msstate7]

Will started v/ kentucky??? In 2020?? Pretty sure Costello just stunk and then we put Will in.

You're right.

The stretch from ark to bama (4 games) rivaled this year with wright...

We scored 28 offensive pts from ark to bama (4 games) - 7.0 ppg

This year under wright, we've scored 23 offensive pts from ark to Kentucky (3 games) - 7.7 ppg

Both stretches were horrible to watch

[Really Clark?]

Will started v/ kentucky??? In 2020?? Pretty sure Costello just stunk and then we put Will in.

That's correct. KJ threw like 55 passes that game before being pulled for Will.

[dawgday166]

Yep ... Y'all are right about Costello. It was next few games if I remember right with Will. So ... 2020 is definitely *** turning out to be a direct one-for-one comparison of this year and y'all carry on with blaming Leach and defending this staff just like you blamed JoMo and defended Leach in 2020 ****

[msstate7]

Yep ... Y'all are right about Costello. It was next few games if I remember right with Will. So ... 2020 is definitely *** turning out to be a direct one-for-one comparison of this year and y'all carry on with blaming Leach and defending this staff just like you blamed JoMo and defended Leach in 2020 ****

You're way too sensitive. No one is defending arnett at this point.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The kids played hard in 2020 and you could tell we had a plan and the culture was in place after it was ruined. It?s not even close. This is the worst coaching job I have ever seen at MSU

[HancockCountyDog]

The kids played hard in 2020 and you could tell we had a plan and the culture was in place after it was ruined. It?s not even close. This is the worst coaching job I have ever seen at MSU

It is hard to quantify the playing hard part. We had some brutal losses in 2020. Our defense still hasn't quit this year. They have reason to quit, but they have played their ass off the last 6 quarters of football. The offense has given them nothing.

I was one of the first ones to question Arnett and his decision to transition away from AR with a senior laden offense, but I think the defense hasn't quit. Now some of the WR's (Tulu especially) appear to be done with this offense or lack thereof. Hard to blame them.

[msstate7]

It is hard to quantify the playing hard part. We had some brutal losses in 2020. Our defense still hasn't quit this year. They have reason to quit, but they have played their ass off the last 6 quarters of football. The offense has given them nothing.

I was one of the first ones to question Arnett and his decision to transition away from AR with a senior laden offense, but I think the defense hasn't quit. Now some of the WR's (Tulu especially) appear to be done with this offense or lack thereof. Hard to blame them.

Not hard for me to blame him. Like the coach or not, like the system or not, he's being paid and given a scholarship to play, so play. I'm perfectly fine with him and all quitters to leave.

[R2Dawg]

The kids played hard in 2020 and you could tell we had a plan and the culture was in place after it was ruined. It?s not even close. This is the worst coaching job I have ever seen at MSU

I haven't really noticed open quit in this team overall but they are frustrated and have lost hope. I saw more guys slam helmets on the sidelines again Saturday after coming off the field. Lots of frustration. We got many who don't want to go out like this. They have like fans lost all confidence in the coaching staff. I do also think some (WR for one) are pouting about not getting the ball as much or something. I'm not sure some are playing hard for a not Will QB, their AR guy. You can tell that by comments after SC game. Not a word since.

This is why when a company gets new leadership, there is typically wholesale changes. They can't afford to have left over leadership that is loyal and undermining new leadership with new direction. Leach did it and no one had issue, but for some reason some expect the next team to not do it?? Double standard.

[msudawg1200]

The kids played hard in 2020 and you could tell we had a plan and the culture was in place after it was ruined. It?s not even close. This is the worst coaching job I have ever seen at MSU

No doubt. This is worse than Croom.

[HancockCountyDog]

No doubt. This is worse than Croom.

Scoring 3 points against this Kentucky team is worse than scoring 2 in the 3-2 game.

[Homedawg]

No doubt. This is worse than Croom.

Memory is short. Go look at the records. Loss to maine. No. It's not worse than croom, no matter how bad you think it is.

[HancockCountyDog]

Memory is short. Go look at the records. Loss to maine. No. It's not worse than croom, no matter how bad you think it is.

Yeah the memories of some are short.

We did lose to Maine that year, we also beat #20 Florida at home 38-31 and then beat UK 22-7 that year. I mean, yeah Maine was brutal, but we did put up 38 points against #20 Florida.

Have we had a showing this year against a top 20 team that would be remotely close to that?

[Really Clark?]

Yeah the memories of some are short.

We did lose to Maine that year, we also beat #20 Florida at home 38-31 and then beat UK 22-7 that year. I mean, yeah Maine was brutal, but we did put up 38 points against #20 Florida.

Have we had a showing this year against a top 20 team that would be remotely close to that?

Yeah but it was Ron Zook...another one that was Croomed. Lol

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah the memories of some are short.

We did lose to Maine that year, we also beat #20 Florida at home 38-31 and then beat UK 22-7 that year. I mean, yeah Maine was brutal, but we did put up 38 points against #20 Florida.

Have we had a showing this year against a top 20 team that would be remotely close to that?

That team also had Jerious Norwood, a top 3 RB in program history, and this team does not have any type of playmaker anywhere close to that caliber.

[HancockCountyDog]

That team also had Jerious Norwood, a top 3 RB in program history, and this team does not have any type of playmaker anywhere close to that caliber.

Yeah, but what we did was tailor our offense to show off his talent in that game. We didn't put him in an AR offense and not give him the ball. People are acting as if this team has zero offensive talent. It just isn't true. We have one of the most experienced offensive lines in our program's history. I would bet we have over 100 starts between the five starters on the OL. We have two WR's in Tulu and Zavion that a lot of teams would like.

[Homedawg]

Yeah the memories of some are short.

We did lose to Maine that year, we also beat #20 Florida at home 38-31 and then beat UK 22-7 that year. I mean, yeah Maine was brutal, but we did put up 38 points against #20 Florida.

Have we had a showing this year against a top 20 team that would be remotely close to that?

In his 5th year, we lost to la tech, got drilled by ga tech. One of his 4 wins was vandy. 3,3,3,7,4 wins. I don't think it's worse. I know it's not worse.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Memory is short. Go look at the records. Loss to maine. No. It's not worse than croom, no matter how bad you think it is.

Yes, it is. Croom had a true rebuild. These slappys walked into a gravy train and spilt it before they got to the table. It is awful. It is inexcusably awful

[memsu06]

There's a reason we set records for the most points down to come back and win games. The air raid did that. When it was on we could put up some points. Get a more mobile QB in and I think we could have made noise in the SEC.

We didn't have the talent of several of the teams we played, but the air raid closed the talent gap.

It's also a simple offense to run, which as Mike Leach said you don't want your players to think too hard during the game. Find green grass.

Look at our offense now, QB and receivers not on same page, blocking wrong people, run blocking on pass plays, etc. I think it's too complicated for the players. It's like Morehead's offense.

Give me a version of the Air Raid any day of the week over this run the ball 2 yards and a cloud of dust. I don't care what you Air Raid haters thing, but your preferred offense isn't getting it done either.

Look what happens to us now with teams stopping the running game and we can't pass the ball.

Next year is going to be brutal. Recruiting is going to suffer and we're losing experienced players.

[msudawg1200]

Memory is short. Go look at the records. Loss to maine. No. It's not worse than croom, no matter how bad you think it is.

That crap I sat through Saturday night is worse than Croom. Period.

[Really Clark?]

That crap I sat through Saturday night is worse than Croom. Period.

Anyone who says that either never actually sat through some of Croom's games or because it was so bad they have erased it from their memory. Sat was bad and Croom like but it wasn't worse.

[Mjoelner34]

Anyone who says that either never actually sat through some of Croom's games or because it was so bad they have erased it from their memory. Sat was bad and Croom like but it wasn't worse.

I've told this before but in his last season we were playing UK. In the 2nd half we come set then all of a sudden shift to an empty backfield and 4 wide with Boobie being outside on the left. We had a WR, I forget who, on the inside left. UK didn't know whether to shit or wind their wristwatch. They were jumping and shifting all over the place and I thought they were going to call timeout. Anyway, they ended up with the corner on Boobie and a linebacker on our WR with no safety over the top. I was already thinking TD before we snapped the ball. Instead, we throw a 3 yard out to the right side. I left and went home. I don't think I even went to the UPIG game even though I had tickets and I laughed all the way through the egg bowl because I figured that was the final nail in that bastard's coffin and it was.

[Really Clark?]

I've told this before but in his last season we were playing UK. In the 2nd half we come set then all of a sudden shift to an empty backfield and 4 wide with Boobie being outside on the left. We had a WR, I forget who, on the inside left. UK didn't know whether to shit or wind their wristwatch. They were jumping and shifting all over the place and I thought they were going to call timeout. Anyway, they ended up with the corner on Boobie and a linebacker on our WR with no safety over the top. I was already thinking TD before we snapped the ball. Instead, we throw a 3 yard out to the right side. I left and went home. I don't think I even went to the UPIG game even though I had tickets and I laughed all the way through the egg bowl because I figured that was the final nail in that bastard's coffin and it was.

Lol. What's sad, that's not some of his worse moments. Yeah that EB, I laughed to keep from crying. Left at halftime

[Mjoelner34]

Lol. What's sad, that's not some of his worse moments. Yeah that EB, I laughed to keep from crying. Left at halftime

You're right. I forget the exact yardage and location but I remember the going for it on 4th then punting when we should have gone for it. Do you remember the exact details? I know it was at UGA.

[Homedawg]

That crap I sat through Saturday night is worse than Croom. Period.

Y'all are gonna make me go look up old croom stats just to get y'all to open your eyes. Good grief.

[Homedawg]

In 2008 we had 129 total yards agains auburn. And that wasn't our worse putting of the year, that would be 124 against ole miss. Hang on for more.

[Homedawg]

In 2004 we lost to vandy, Maine and uab. Yeah it's worse. Just say it's bad. But it isn't worse. It's not even close.

[Homedawg]

As bad as this offense has been, without the starting qb for 3 games, it's avg 33 more yards than Croom's BEST offense. But yeah, this is worse. Your honor I make a motion to dismiss......

[Really Clark?]

You're right. I forget the exact yardage and location but I remember the going for it on 4th then punting when we should have gone for it. Do you remember the exact details? I know it was at UGA.

2006 game we lost 27-24? We punted on Geogia's 30 yard line on our first possession of the game. But I don't remember going for it on a 4th down in a bad spot. We went for and got a first down on Georgia's 38 yard line. Maybe that time? We fumbled to end the game on Georgia's 23 yard line. We also threw an interception earlier in the game at Georgia's 6 yard line after recovering their fumble and another interception at their 13 yard line in the 3rd quarter.

[Homedawg]

And no I didn't do points bc I don't feel like looking up defensive td's and taking them out. 07 had a ton of those. But the point is made. And I'm admitting it's bad. But it ain't worse. Ain't close

[Really Clark?]

As bad as this offense has been, without the starting qb for 3 games, it's avg 33 more yards than Croom's BEST offense. But yeah, this is worse. Your honor I make a motion to dismiss......

Case dismissed

[SteelCurtain74]

In 2004 we lost to vandy, Maine and uab. Yeah it's worse. Just say it's bad. But it isn't worse. It's not even close.

After losing to Vandy and UAB in back to back weeks we turn around and beat 20th ranked Florida at home. Norwood had him a day. I also think that's where "Croomed" originated because I think Zook may have been fired at the end of that year.

[Really Clark?]

After losing to Vandy and UAB in back to back weeks we turn around and beat 20th ranked Florida at home. Norwood had him a day. I also think that's where "Croomed" originated because I think Zook may have been fired at the end of that year.

He was officially fired and announced after the loss against us but they let him finish the season out.

[Homedawg]

After losing to Vandy and UAB in back to back weeks we turn around and beat 20th ranked Florida at home. Norwood had him a day. I also think that's where "Croomed" originated because I think Zook may have been fired at the end of that year.

Yes we did. Was there. Norwood was soo good. Hate he had to play on those teams. Explosive. Haven't had a guy that explosive since. Or maybe ever

[BuckyIsAB****]

Anyone who says that either never actually sat through some of Croom's games or because it was so bad they have erased it from their memory. Sat was bad and Croom like but it wasn't worse.

Well I was at 3-2 vs Auburn. I was at 32-29 vs Tulane, I was at 9-7 vs Maine. I was at 27-13 vs UAB.

What this staff has done is worse. Croom had an excuse. Arnett has none

[Really Clark?]

Well I was at 3-2 vs Auburn. I was at 32-29 vs Tulane, I was at 9-7 vs Maine. I was at 27-13 vs UAB.

What this staff has done is worse. Croom had an excuse. Arnett has none

Hey, I wasn't going to bring up your heavy drinking back in those days but I'm glad you are able to share with the group.***

I was at all of those games as well. Noticed that we lost to a losing FCS team and a losing G5 school in Tulane. We were pitiful then and not good at all now. But I can't agree it's worse.

[Homedawg]

Well I was at 3-2 vs Auburn. I was at 32-29 vs Tulane, I was at 9-7 vs Maine. I was at 27-13 vs UAB.

What this staff has done is worse. Croom had an excuse. Arnett has none

Croom had 5 years. He was trash. This isn't worse. Best year of offense was 303 yds per game. I'm sorry you have so much bias in this.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Croom had 5 years. He was trash. This isn't worse. Best year of offense was 303 yds per game. I'm sorry you have so much bias in this.

Only thing I am bias too is winning and ya know, im a big fan of coaches that are semi competent at their job and dont tear down something that took years to do in 6 months. It?s not bias it is the truth. Moorhead was better. And Moorhead was a total flop.

[BuckyIsAB****]

This staff has done worse than Croom did in a much shorter about of time. Given 5 years there would be nothing left to save.

I know that that were asked to do something really hard and unprecedented, but it is what it is. It did not have to be this way

[Todd4State]

This staff has done worse than Croom did in a much shorter about of time. Given 5 years there would be nothing left to save.

I know that that were asked to do something really hard and unprecedented, but it is what it is. It did not have to be this way

Croom was bad. But he also exceded our win total from 2003 to 2004 even with a loss to Maine, Vanderbilt, and UAB.

[Bubb Rubb]

How many teams are winning with their back-up QB?

Arizona is killing it.

[Bubb Rubb]

Memory is short. Go look at the records. Loss to maine. No. It's not worse than croom, no matter how bad you think it is.

Lots of revisionist history going on these days.

We are bad. We are not Croom bad. It's actually hard work to be that bad.

[Mjoelner34]

Lots of revisionist history going on these days.

We are bad. We are not Croom bad. It's actually hard work to be that bad.

No we are not but if a complete house-cleaning doesn't take place, we will be next year.

[BuckyIsAB****]

As bad as this offense has been, without the starting qb for 3 games, it's avg 33 more yards than Croom's BEST offense. But yeah, this is worse. Your honor I make a motion to dismiss......

33 yards more with better players worse competition arguably and years of a great culture that they ruined. So yes it is worse

[BuckyIsAB****]

The fact that its only 33 is pretty damning

[Homedawg]

33 yards more with better players worse competition arguably and years of a great culture that they ruined. So yes it is worse

No it's not worse. You're being blinded bc of Will. Sorry. It's not worse. It's not close. You know if Will had played those theee games our ypc would be higher too.

[Homedawg]

The fact that its only 33 is pretty damning

Croom had 5 years. That was his BEST year. Should I bring up all the totals???

[BuckyIsAB****]

No it's not worse. You're being blinded bc of Will. Sorry. It's not worse. It's not close. You know if Will had played those theee games our ypc would be higher too.

Ok. The fact that you just said our current offense is only 33 yards better than Crooms best one is good enough for me. That is enough shittyness to prove my point

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

We are in an offensive age where everyone scores points?..except for us

[CoachT14]

Here's the issue. We were in a worse spot when Croom took over than when Arnett took over. Arnett now has us near Croom levels (in wins and offense) when offenses score way more points than Croom.

That in and of itself is proof enough that Arnett is at minimum just as bad Croom.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Only thing I am bias too is winning and ya know, im a big fan of coaches that are semi competent at their job and dont tear down something that took years to do in 6 months. It?s not bias it is the truth. Moorhead was better. And Moorhead was a total flop.

I assume we were all in college at the same time, because, I too, attended all of these abominations.

This team isn't as bad as those, but the last 3 weeks it's been trending in that direction. Arnett also inherited more than Croom in year 1.

However, Croom is undefeated in terrible. He drove myself (and Bucky, apparently) to binge drink.

[Goldendawg]

No it's not worse. You're being blinded bc of Will. Sorry. It's not worse. It's not close. You know if Will had played those theee games our ypc would be higher too.

Yep, between the twenties, 4 to 8 yards at a pop.

[Goldendawg]

Croom had 5 years. That was his BEST year. Should I bring up all the totals???

Heck, look at the records over the Shira years, even. He won SEC COY his only winning season when we went 6-5 I think. I've seen this terrible play before with Shira, Felker, Jackie's ( but NCAA/OM situation didn't help at all), last 3 years, Croom, JoMo (winning a few ain't everything) and now in over his head along with most of staff CZA. Time to move along and show a true commitment to current players, future players, future coaches and fans in FB ASAP!

[Goldendawg]

I assume we were all in college at the same time, because, I too, attended all of these abominations.

This team isn't as bad as those, but the last 3 weeks it's been trending in that direction. Arnett also inherited more than Croom in year 1.

However, Croom is undefeated in terrible. He drove myself (and Bucky, apparently) to binge drink.

Croom passed out asleep on a couch at a recruiting visit at a player's home. I passed out from boredom trying to watch his "West Coast Offense" at many games.*** JoMo, stayed on the edge of my seat wordering if he would finally get his genuis offensive play in with time for our QB to get it off before play clock ran out. He seemed to always leave time for a 5-4-3-2-1 count for the opposing team to tee off on our OL and QB. All happy memories that fit in so well today.**** NOT!

[BankerDog]

I assume we were all in college at the same time, because, I too, attended all of these abominations.

This team isn't as bad as those, but the last 3 weeks it's been trending in that direction. Arnett also inherited more than Croom in year 1.

However, Croom is undefeated in terrible. He drove myself (and Bucky, apparently) to binge drink.

If Bucky is who I think he is-no he was in a 7th and 8th grade..

[Really Clark?]

If Bucky is who I think he is-no he was in a 7th and 8th grade..

Wow, he started drinking at a young age!*** Lol

[Coach34]

We are in an offensive age where everyone scores points?..except for us

Losing the starting QB had alot to do with that dont ya think?

[dawgday166]

Losing the starting QB had alot to do with that dont ya think?

Scored more in 2020 with a true freshman backup QB. So ... not to this level of drop off, especially against these putrid Ds we're facing this year.

That was not allowed as an excuse back then either. And besides, we have TEs now and Barbay (or whoever calls the O) promised to adapt to available personnel regardless.

[Goldendawg]

Losing the starting QB had alot to do with that dont ya think?

Name me a single player, position or unit that has looked good under this "coaching" staff. ST, if you don't count the punter we went all the way to Australia or New Zealand or somewhere to get a 35 ypp average. Square peg, veteran players being pounded into a round hole offense, ala JoMo.

[Coach34]

Scored more in 2020 with a true freshman backup QB. So ... not to this level of drop off, especially against these putrid Ds we're facing this year.

That was not allowed as an excuse back then either. And besides, we have TEs now and Barbay (or whoever calls the O) promised to adapt to available personnel regardless.

In 2020 we had a back-up QB that was the son of a HS coach that is an offensive coach. Football in his blood

Mike Wright makes decisions like a drunk sailor

[dawgday166]

In 2020 we had a back-up QB that was the son of a HS coach that is an offensive coach. Football in his blood

Mike Wright makes decisions like a drunk sailor

LOL .. Ok. I'll buy that. A helluva portal acquisition then.

[Goldendawg]

LOL .. Ok. I'll buy that. A helluva portal acquisition then.

Along with every other portal evaluation signee made by this staff. So glad we went all the way to E Washington and got Freddie Robinson instead of that Harris WR from La Tech. Tell me again C34, who are the portal players this staff identified and that have made a difference? Most don't see the field except that former 4th string TE from GA. Still waiting for him to make his first college catch. Forgot great blocker, never mind on that. Good thing we are putting the best players on the field in this O.****

[Mjoelner34]

Croom passed out asleep on a couch at a recruiting visit at a player's home. I passed out from boredom trying to watch his "West Coast Offense" at many games.*** JoMo, stayed on the edge of my seat wordering if he would finally get his genuis offensive play in with time for our QB to get it off before play clock ran out. He seemed to always leave time for a 5-4-3-2-1 count for the opposing team to tee off on our OL and QB. All happy memories that fit in so well today.**** NOT!

Nothing but truth in this post!