Arnett now 3 wins behind where Leach would be

[Quaoarsking]

Never forget the clowns who said Arnett meant MORE wins

[Bothrops]

We would have won tonight. I'd say Leach '23 would be 6-3 right now.

[BeardoMSU]

This isn't helping.

I'm very sad Mike died. I'm glad he was our coach. I'll always appreciate him, his humor, and his personality.

But his offense never clicked here. And I don't necessarily fault him; I happen to think it was mostly bc of QB, but that's also not helpful at this point.

This idea that is has to be an AR scheme or nothing for us to field a competitive offense has reached insane cultists status in our fanbase.

[EdwardDrayton]

It's a hypothetical that can never be proven. So probably no real value in discussing.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This isn't helping.

I'm very sad Mike died. I'm glad he was our coach. I'll always appreciate him, his humor, and his personality.

But his offense never clicked here. And I don't necessarily fault him; I happen to think it was mostly bc of QB, but that's also not helpful at this point.

This idea that is has to be an AR scheme or nothing for us to field a competitive offense has reached insane cultists status in our fanbase.

Nah….no one is saying that. We are just saying Zach Arnett sucks as a HC and needs to be fired tomorrow.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Im not saying air raid or bust. Leach did not win because of the air raid. He won because we were actually tough and did all the little things. We played hard. He won because of culture. That?s what we are missing

[Charlie_Sheen420]

I’m gonna be blunt. Leach is dead and buried and so is his air raid style. We didn’t fire him, he died. We hired someone else who wanted to go a different route and we are seeing the effects of a team built for the air raid playing a different style. Add on to that it seems like we now have players on the team that are Leach loyalists and don’t believe in the current staff. That’s fine and understandable, but they need to be benched and transfer out and players that actually give a damn and effort should be playing for this staff for better or worse, it’s like half the team is bought in and half isn’t. I’m not pleased with the current situation, but it is what it is, I at least want to see effort even if it fails. You can’t say Leach would have done this or that….he’s gone, let it go. You can’t keep comparing what Leach would have done with this team, it’s not his it’s Arnetts for better or worse. Those who want to play for Leach don’t need to be here anymore cause he’s not coming back, it’s a crappy situation but it is what it is.

[RezDog7]

Never forget the clowns who said Arnett meant MORE wins

Hey dumbass, msu didn't fire leach. Get over your ****ing self.

[dawgday166]

Im not saying air raid or bust. Leach did not win because of the air raid. He won because we were actually tough and did all the little things. We played hard. He won because of culture. That?s what we are missing

This is me. A good culture and coach is gonna win a lot of games, pretty much regardless of scheme.

ETA: In fact I think I became a Missouri fan today. They have almost the same exact level of no talented, stupid players as we do.

[Homedawg]

Never forget the clowns who said Arnett meant MORE wins
His lack of care in recruiting made it this way.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Will Friends fat @ss should be one of the first to hit the road.

[Really Clark?]

This is me. A good culture and coach is gonna win a lot of games, pretty much regardless of scheme.

This 100%

[Quaoarsking]

This isn't helping.

I'm very sad Mike died. I'm glad he was our coach. I'll always appreciate him, his humor, and his personality.

But his offense never clicked here. And I don't necessarily fault him; I happen to think it was mostly bc of QB, but that's also not helpful at this point.

This idea that is has to be an AR scheme or nothing for us to field a competitive offense has reached insane cultists status in our fanbase.

I disagree.

While most of our fans will agree that Leach's death was tragedy on a human level, a significant minority of our fans don't recognize that it was also a tragedy on a football level. They said we'd be better off without him, and even after 9 games of this shit team, some of them are even sticking to it, having the gall to blame Leach for it!

Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him (through no fault of our own, of course), we're not going to be able to fix the problems we're currently having.

And for the record, I don't insist that we have to run the Air Raid. Anything that wins is fine with me. We can hire Rich Rodriguez - not my #1 choice, but better than what he have now - if that's what Selmon thinks we need to do as a program.

[Goldendawg]

I disagree.

While most of our fans will agree that Leach's death was tragedy on a human level, a significant minority of our fans don't recognize that it was also a tragedy on a football level. They said we'd be better off without him, and even after 9 games of this shit team, some of them are even sticking to it, having the gall to blame Leach for it!

Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him (through no fault of our own, of course), we're not going to be able to fix the problems we're currently having.

And for the record, I don't insist that we have to run the Air Raid. Anything that wins is fine with me. We can hire Rich Rodriguez - not my #1 choice, but better than what he have now - if that's what Selmon thinks we need to do as a program.

Selmon, our newest on the job training AD.

[Quaoarsking]

Selmon, our newest on the job training AD.

He's going to show us if he's really cut out for an SEC AD job or not in the next few weeks, that's for sure. I already suspect he might not be considering how June 2023 went down, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[dawgday166]

I disagree.

While most of our fans will agree that Leach's death was tragedy on a human level, a significant minority of our fans don't recognize that it was also a tragedy on a football level. They said we'd be better off without him, and even after 9 games of this shit team, some of them are even sticking to it, having the gall to blame Leach for it!

Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him (through no fault of our own, of course), we're not going to be able to fix the problems we're currently having.

And for the record, I don't insist that we have to run the Air Raid. Anything that wins is fine with me. We can hire Rich Rodriguez - not my #1 choice, but better than what he have now - if that's what Selmon thinks we need to do as a program.

I agree with with what you said but I also think we need to let it go.

[Todd4State]

I’m gonna be blunt. Leach is dead and buried and so is his air raid style. We didn’t fire him, he died. We hired someone else who wanted to go a different route and we are seeing the effects of a team built for the air raid playing a different style. Add on to that it seems like we now have players on the team that are Leach loyalists and don’t believe in the current staff. That’s fine and understandable, but they need to be benched and transfer out and players that actually give a damn and effort should be playing for this staff for better or worse, it’s like half the team is bought in and half isn’t. I’m not pleased with the current situation, but it is what it is, I at least want to see effort even if it fails. You can’t say Leach would have done this or that….he’s gone, let it go. You can’t keep comparing what Leach would have done with this team, it’s not his it’s Arnetts for better or worse. Those who want to play for Leach don’t need to be here anymore cause he’s not coming back, it’s a crappy situation but it is what it is.

I'm also going to be very blunt.

There were many fans that were fans of Mike Leach that had been following him for awhile and saw the big picture of what he was doing here. Only for us to be called "cult members" and that his offense sucked and if we ran more and did some jet sweeps and whatever other bullshit we would be soooo much better. A mobile QB makes everything better. Our running backs were tired of getting "blown up" on swing passes. Well here we are now averaging 14 PPG in SEC games after being told that there was NO WAY we could be worse off on offense. L.O.L. Well those people got what they wanted and it's boring and worse than what we were doing. And many of us are throwing it back in the faces of those people. Many of us had questions about what we were doing and concern that switching to something drastically different would lead to offensive struggles when we had a senior laden team. Only to be told that we were going to put our best 11 on the field and that we would be similar to what we had been doing but with more balance. I suspected BS. And was right.

And you know what? I probably should stop. The point has been made.

But I will address what you said about our players- IF it is true that this staff misled them by telling them that we were not going away from the Air Raid or that we were going to run something different then you can not blame them for not giving a shit. That's on the staff.

[Todd4State]

I disagree.

While most of our fans will agree that Leach's death was tragedy on a human level, a significant minority of our fans don't recognize that it was also a tragedy on a football level. They said we'd be better off without him, and even after 9 games of this shit team, some of them are even sticking to it, having the gall to blame Leach for it!

Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him (through no fault of our own, of course), we're not going to be able to fix the problems we're currently having.

And for the record, I don't insist that we have to run the Air Raid. Anything that wins is fine with me. We can hire Rich Rodriguez - not my #1 choice, but better than what he have now - if that's what Selmon thinks we need to do as a program.

Well said. Have some rep.

IMO- the only thing that is going to start to bring all fans together is getting rid of this staff almost completely. Bumphis can stay. Anyone else is fair game- even Tony Hughes. Just reboot the thing.

[KB21]

I’m gonna be blunt. Leach is dead and buried and so is his air raid style. We didn’t fire him, he died. We hired someone else who wanted to go a different route and we are seeing the effects of a team built for the air raid playing a different style. Add on to that it seems like we now have players on the team that are Leach loyalists and don’t believe in the current staff. That’s fine and understandable, but they need to be benched and transfer out and players that actually give a damn and effort should be playing for this staff for better or worse, it’s like half the team is bought in and half isn’t. I’m not pleased with the current situation, but it is what it is, I at least want to see effort even if it fails. You can’t say Leach would have done this or that….he’s gone, let it go. You can’t keep comparing what Leach would have done with this team, it’s not his it’s Arnetts for better or worse. Those who want to play for Leach don’t need to be here anymore cause he’s not coming back, it’s a crappy situation but it is what it is.

Did I really just read this stupid shit?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I’m gonna be blunt. Leach is dead and buried and so is his air raid style. We didn’t fire him, he died. We hired someone else who wanted to go a different route and we are seeing the effects of a team built for the air raid playing a different style. Add on to that it seems like we now have players on the team that are Leach loyalists and don’t believe in the current staff. That’s fine and understandable, but they need to be benched and transfer out and players that actually give a damn and effort should be playing for this staff for better or worse, it’s like half the team is bought in and half isn’t. I’m not pleased with the current situation, but it is what it is, I at least want to see effort even if it fails. You can’t say Leach would have done this or that….he’s gone, let it go. You can’t keep comparing what Leach would have done with this team, it’s not his it’s Arnetts for better or worse. Those who want to play for Leach don’t need to be here anymore cause he’s not coming back, it’s a crappy situation but it is what it is.

Nobody is hung up on Leach, you're missing the point of the post. The point of saying "Leach would have this team 6-3" is to say "Arnett is doing an awful job" by comparing him to a known recent commodity

[Dawgface]

His lack of care in recruiting made it this way.

And there it is. Leach is to blame....not Arnett and staff. Ha ha.

[R2Dawg]

This isn't helping.

I'm very sad Mike died. I'm glad he was our coach. I'll always appreciate him, his humor, and his personality.

But his offense never clicked here. And I don't necessarily fault him; I happen to think it was mostly bc of QB, but that's also not helpful at this point.

This idea that is has to be an AR scheme or nothing for us to field a competitive offense has reached insane cultists status in our fanbase.

Beard you are correct. This is what AR mess brought us. Another reason I didn?t like it.

And Leach was 1-2 UK. Why would he have beat them last night? Leach never got backup QB reps so after Will down next guy would have been deer in headlights worse than now.

500 yards of O on USC, Leach ain?t winning that one. We threw downfield that game something Leach w Oy lent do. We probably get best worse.

Aub not.

AR cult is delusional and insane but I do agree clean house.

[R2Dawg]

I’m gonna be blunt. Leach is dead and buried and so is his air raid style. We didn’t fire him, he died. We hired someone else who wanted to go a different route and we are seeing the effects of a team built for the air raid playing a different style. Add on to that it seems like we now have players on the team that are Leach loyalists and don’t believe in the current staff. That’s fine and understandable, but they need to be benched and transfer out and players that actually give a damn and effort should be playing for this staff for better or worse, it’s like half the team is bought in and half isn’t. I’m not pleased with the current situation, but it is what it is, I at least want to see effort even if it fails. You can’t say Leach would have done this or that….he’s gone, let it go. You can’t keep comparing what Leach would have done with this team, it’s not his it’s Arnetts for better or worse. Those who want to play for Leach don’t need to be here anymore cause he’s not coming back, it’s a crappy situation but it is what it is.

I believe this is part of issue too. The AR is a cult. It has divided the fan base, some of it anyway so how is team immune?

Again a problem on front end and now back end like I said when it came here.

10 years from now these idiots will be posting that Leach would have a NC by now, etc.

[Really Clark?]

I disagree.

While most of our fans will agree that Leach's death was tragedy on a human level, a significant minority of our fans don't recognize that it was also a tragedy on a football level. They said we'd be better off without him, and even after 9 games of this shit team, some of them are even sticking to it, having the gall to blame Leach for it!

Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him (through no fault of our own, of course), we're not going to be able to fix the problems we're currently having.

And for the record, I don't insist that we have to run the Air Raid. Anything that wins is fine with me. We can hire Rich Rodriguez - not my #1 choice, but better than what he have now - if that's what Selmon thinks we need to do as a program.

"Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him"

All you need to say is come together as a fan base, the rest is qualifiers you are forcing people to believe the way you do. That won't work.

I've stated my opinion numerous times but will again for this purpose because not everyone fits in neatly with this box or that box. I absolutely believed at the time Mike Leach was the right coach we needed and how he runs a program was very much needed. His or any other coaches offensive scheme is down the list in hiring a good head coach. We have way too many who all they emphasize is the offensive scheme. It's about running a program and culture, he was very good at that. I also believed his offense would struggle in the SEC and wouldn't be as good as his other stops, but that's ok because he was a good head coach. He pushed most of the buttons right to get us corrected and on track. I also knew when we hired him we were not going to get the best recruiting and I knew that Emerick and Dudeck were a problem to our assistant coaches actually being as effect of recruiters. That was set up by Leach, that's on him. But that's ok because I believed he was the best HC we could get and it was a great get. I believe, and Homedawg has stated the same all year, that Will Rogers was by far our best option at QB when so many want to change. Leach and Drew developed that and did well with Will's talent. But I also know if this was last year and Will went down, we had nobody ready and what is happening now would have happened to Coach Leach as well. I knew when Coach Leach did leave the program, there would be difficulty transitioning but I was more than ok with it because he was a good head coach. You can be critical with a coaches scheme or whatever other parts of the program you don't like, just like we have always been as a fan base but still think the coach is the right guy at the time. I do, but I am not going to go around saying people have to believe a certain way to come together as a fan base.

[Homedawg]

"Until we can come together as a fanbase and admit that Leach very good for our program and we're much worse off without him"

All you need to say is come together as a fan base, the rest is qualifiers you are forcing people to believe the way you do. That won't work.

I've stated my opinion numerous times but will again for this purpose because not everyone fits in neatly with this box or that box. I absolutely believed at the time Mike Leach was the right coach we needed and how he runs a program was very much needed. His or any other coaches offensive scheme is down the list in hiring a good head coach. We have way too many who all they emphasize is the offensive scheme. It's about running a program and culture, he was very good at that. I also believed his offense would struggle in the SEC and wouldn't be as good as his other stops, but that's ok because he was a good head coach. He pushed most of the buttons right to get us corrected and on track. I also knew when we hired him we were not going to get the best recruiting and I knew that Emerick and Dudeck were a problem to our assistant coaches actually being as effect of recruiters. That was set up by Leach, that's on him. But that's ok because I believed he was the best HC we could get and it was a great get. I believe, and Homedawg has stated the same all year, that Will Rogers was by far our best option at QB when so many want to change. Leach and Drew developed that and did well with Will's talent. But I also know if this was last year and Will went down, we had nobody ready and what is happening now would have happened to Coach Leach as well. I knew when Coach Leach did leave the program, there would be difficulty transitioning but I was more than ok with it because he was a good head coach. You can be critical with a coaches scheme or whatever other parts of the program you don't like, just like we have always been as a fan base but still think the coach is the right guy at the time. I do, but I am not going to go around saying people have to believe a certain way to come together as a fan base.

Clapping!!! Well said

[BrunswickDawg]

That's a beaut Clark!

And I think the real lesson that we need to learn from Leach is the same one we should have learned after Jackie - go and get the best, experienced HC we can find. No more training wheels hires. We have the money and the resources. Make people turn us away. Damned the systems - get coaches and the talent will follow.

[Quaoarsking]

As a reminder, I would have never brought up Leach if a significant minority of our fans didn't think we'd be the same or worse than 4-5 if he were still here. It's just mind-boggling that people can hate the man so much and convince themselves that that's true, but it's where we are.

[Homedawg]

As a reminder, I would have never brought up Leach if a significant minority of our fans didn't think we'd be the same or worse than 4-5 if he were still here. It's just mind-boggling that people can hate the man so much and convince themselves that that's true, but it's where we are.

I don't know one person who hates Coach Leach. That's made up bs.

[dawgday166]

Beard you are correct. This is what AR mess brought us. Another reason I didn?t like it.

And Leach was 1-2 UK. Why would he have beat them last night? Leach never got backup QB reps so after Will down next guy would have been deer in headlights worse than now.

500 yards of O on USC, Leach ain?t winning that one. We threw downfield that game something Leach w Oy lent do. We probably get best worse.

Aub not.

AR cult is delusional and insane but I do agree clean house.

You say he's right about Leach has passed away and then write this. Shit like THIS is why it stays alive. You have NO IDEA what this season would be like under Leach. But YOU have to trash the AR and Leach anyway. You just have to have the last word. It's about winning the argument SMFH.

[Really Clark?]

That's a beaut Clark!

And I think the real lesson that we need to learn from Leach is the same one we should have learned after Jackie - go and get the best, experienced HC we can find. No more training wheels hires. We have the money and the resources. Make people turn us away. Damned the systems - get coaches and the talent will follow.

I agree. I usually don't mind looking at coordinators with certain pedigree as they prove they can be as successful. But circumstances dictate where you should look for replacements. Our circumstance needs a stabilizer. We need and can look really hard at sitting HC's. Then it will be finding the right guy, fit, has the best plan to run the program as a whole and to right the ship.

[Really Clark?]

I don't know one person who hates Coach Leach. That's made up bs.

Hell you've spent more personal time with Leach than anyone else on the board, I would wager.

[R2Dawg]

You say he's right about Leach has passed away and then write this. Shit like THIS is why it stays alive. You have NO IDEA what this season would be like under Leach. But YOU have to trash the AR and Leach anyway. You just have to have the last word. It's about winning the argument SMFH.

Dude I let 100 idiotic post go before responding to an AR stupid post. I don't push any agenda either. I have never trashed Leach. I liked a lot of things about him just not the AR or recruiting. I just posted a few facts and an opinion. Why does that bother you? Toughen up buttercup. If AR cult can't take it then shut up. It is gone, time to move on. There ain't no last word on the forum - how stupid.

Do you see me starting any stupid threads like this? Fact is no. Only AR cult idiots and a few others on the other side start them. I'm sick of hearing about it. I ain't causing them to start a new thread every 5 min.

[Homedawg]

And there it is. Leach is to blame....not Arnett and staff. Ha ha.

This staff hasn't do a good job. Just like CML didnt do a good job recruiting. His part that he actually "participated" in and that part gt he turned over to emmerick and Dudek. Absolute atrocious by those two.

[BuckyIsAB****]

This staff hasn't do a good job. Just like CML didnt do a good job recruiting. His part that he actually "participated" in and that part gt he turned over to emmerick and Dudek. Absolute atrocious by those two.

Dudek was absolutely a slapdick.

[Really Clark?]

Dudek was absolutely a slapdick.

Absolutely. Horrid hire, horrid for our recruiting.