View Full Version : Can anyone explain why there are so few elite QBs in the NFL. there are maybe 5-6 and
the rest are scrubs or serviceable, with the hundred's college QBS to choose from? For every Patrick Mahone's there 15 mac jones and Jamis Winston's. And they get paid huge $$$$. i just don't get it is the NFL that hard?
the rest are scrubs or serviceable, with the hundred's college QBS to choose from? For every Patrick Mahone's there 15 mac jones and Jamis Winston's. And they get paid huge $$$$. i just don't get it is the NFL that hard?
Because NFL scouts tend to look for the wrong traits. They get fooled by size, arm strength, and mobility. It's also harder to evaluate some of the other traits in some college offenses.
However, I think things are improving and will continue to improve as more and more teams are hiring young head coaches who are analytical in their thinking and can structure their offense around the QB. When you see what Kyl Shanahan is doing with Brock Purdy, Ben Johnson with Jared Goff, Mike McDaniel with Tua, Matt LaFleur with Jordan Love...etc.
SteelCurtain74
10-09-2023, 02:04 PM
the rest are scrubs or serviceable, with the hundred's college QBS to choose from? For every Patrick Mahone's there 15 mac jones and Jamis Winston's. And they get paid huge $$$$. i just don't get it is the NFL that hard?
What do you consider elite, though? 25% of the league has a qb in their first or second year as a starter: Texans, Panthers, Falcons, Steelers, Colts, Packers, Commanders and 49ers. Most of those teams aren't very good right now. Purdy and to some degree Pickett have better surrounding casts to help them than the others listed.
Rogers is hurt, Burrow is battling injuries, Jackson is coming back from injury.
Based on a person's definition of elite, I would consider Mahomes, Hurts, Herbert, Stafford, Allen and Lawrence elite. You might convince me on Lamar and Tua but Tua's surrounding cast is making him look good, imo.
That leaves guys like Cousins, Goff and Geno who are probably next tier. Not elite but pretty good.
I don't know there were more "elite" qbs in 2013 than there are today.
What do you consider elite, though? 25% of the league has a qb in their first or second year as a starter: Texans, Panthers, Falcons, Steelers, Colts, Packers, Commanders and 49ers. Most of those teams aren't very good right now. Purdy and to some degree Pickett have better surrounding casts to help them than the others listed.
Rogers is hurt, Burrow is battling injuries, Jackson is coming back from injury.
Based on a person's definition of elite, I would consider Mahomes, Hurts, Herbert, Stafford, Allen and Lawrence elite. You might convince me on Lamar and Tua but Tua's surrounding cast is making him look good, imo.
That leaves guys like Cousins, Goff and Geno who are probably next tier. Not elite but pretty good.
I don't know there were more "elite" qbs in 2013 than there are today.
thats my point. at any given time there are only a few brees..rogers types playing the rest are serviceable.
DEDawg
10-09-2023, 02:41 PM
Because NFL scouts tend to look for the wrong traits. They get fooled by size, arm strength, and mobility. It's also harder to evaluate some of the other traits in some college offenses.
However, I think things are improving and will continue to improve as more and more teams are hiring young head coaches who are analytical in their thinking and can structure their offense around the QB. When you see what Kyl Shanahan is doing with Brock Purdy, Ben Johnson with Jared Goff, Mike McDaniel with Tua, Matt LaFleur with Jordan Love...etc.
How can you say scouts get fooled on those things when literally every elite QB in the NFL right now has those traits?
Really Clark?
10-09-2023, 02:48 PM
How can you say scouts get fooled on those things when literally every elite QB in the NFL right now has those traits?
They don't get fooled on those traits, it's what no one can really measure that set the QB's apart. How quickly they process what they see and anticipate the defenses move pre and post snap. Then being able to execute under duress.
How can you say scouts get fooled on those things when literally every elite QB in the NFL right now has those traits?
Pretty easily. Look at some of the recent high first round pick QBs: Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance...etc.
Todd4State
10-09-2023, 03:16 PM
There is a lot that goes into it.
I do agree with KB that scouts tend to overvalue physical traits.
You look at the two best of all time- Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Neither were 6'5" 240 pound Greek Gods with the strongest arms in the league and Brady wasn't very mobile at all.
Both were extremely accurate and both were extremely off the charts competitive and could process the offense and what the defense was trying to do while almost instantly knowing where to attack the defense. Both were great leaders and because they could process the offense they could guide the other players and lead them which built up trust. Neither one turn the ball over frequently.
If you get on Madden and you create a character like Montana but with the physical traits- exceptional arm strength, 4.4 speed, and the height and weight measureables you're likely looking at the greatest QB of all time.
Situation factors in as well. Purdy has elite talent surrounding him. If he was on the Jets no one would be talking about him. Elite players can help other elite players play up in football- Montana/Rice, Brady/Moss/Gronk. Also Montana and Brady as well as Purdy weren't expected to be the guy on day one to save the franchise. They got to be the back up for a little while before getting their turn.
They don't get fooled on those traits, it's what no one can really measure that set the QB's apart. How quickly they process what they see and anticipate the defenses move pre and post snap. Then being able to execute under duress.
i think that is the answer i was looking for!
Kingbarkus
10-09-2023, 11:14 PM
NFL Qb is the toughest position in professional sports. Reading complex defenses pre and post snap is incredibly difficult. Remember Bryce Young picking up critical first downs with his feet at Bama when the pocket broke down? Saints linebackers were tackling Young while he scrambled to get a first down. There is so much speed on an NFL field.
defiantdog
10-10-2023, 08:03 AM
College qbs don't have to process plays like they used to. They don't typically scan the field. It's RPO's, quick outs, single reads, etc. 20 years ago teams were still going into huddle and running NFL style plays. Not that much anymore (except for a few). QBs aren't typically taught to be gunslingers anymore.
msstate7
10-10-2023, 08:41 AM
Bc the definition of elite is a superior group. Elite guys are hard to find no matter the sport... why are there not many ohtanis, lebron Jameses, whoever the Stud is hockey, etc?
Saltydog
10-10-2023, 02:30 PM
Absolutely agree. Give me a guy with average measurables and the ability to process information quickly and you'll win a lot of games in the NFL.
DEDawg
10-10-2023, 09:44 PM
Pretty easily. Look at some of the recent high first round pick QBs: Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance...etc.
That isnt what you said tho. You said scouts get fooled in those traits yet every current elite QB has them, so obviously they arent getting fooled. It?s just a hit rate like any other position.
Theres no Brees or Brady anymore. Every elite QB right now has a crazy arm, athleticism or mobility. Its not like scouts are just valuing those traits for no reason.
DEDawg
10-10-2023, 09:46 PM
Absolutely agree. Give me a guy with average measurables and the ability to process information quickly and you'll win a lot of games in the NFL.
No you wont. Not unless your last name is Brady or Brees.
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