Sunday Morning QB- Just Cant Give Them The D Edition

[Coach34]

1. What a lovely Fall day yesterday. Perfect temp for football and grilling. Have a Mississippi Rebel friend staying the weekend and treated her to some filet and lobster. She also got treated to a fun day of Bulldog football watching us get our 3rd win of the season to even our record at 3-3. Unfortunately, I had to watch Mississippi eek out a hard fought win with someone yelling at the TV constantly.

2. Offensively, we got about what was expected. 41 points which could have easily been more. Missed a FG, fumbled a KO return before half with great field position, and just ran the clock inside the 10 at the end of the game. The offense did its job even with people hurt or hurting. 440 yards for you yards loving Bulldogs out there. No sacks of our QB. We were down a RB and then Marks sat the 2nd half- yet still ran for 6 ypc in the game. Just a good offensive performance and this side of the ball continues to get better. Could have easily put up 50 yesterday. Reallyyyyyy enjoying this offense. Wish the QB play was a little better but recruiting is the only way to get better there.

3. QB play was solid. 3 TD's passes with no picks. We could have thrown for more but you could us working on some things offensively. Rogers threw a really good backshoulder early on but their DB made a good play on it to force us into a FG. Absolutely dumb bringing in Wright on 3rd and Goal in a long situation but this was a game to try things. Good to see Wright get some drives and work. That damn floating duck he threw across the field to start off had to be the ball slipping or something. Ended up 7/10 and a good outing. He put the ball in a tight window that should have been caught around the goalline by Tulu I think. Hopefully Rogers is not too bad off and its also a positive that its his other shoulder. Perfect time for an off week.

4. Defensively, we are running Arnett's defense. This is not Brock's. We arent doing anything defensively we havent done the last 3 seasons.

5. D-Line is not very good at staying healthy or getting pressure. They just cant. We simply lack talent there. They hold their own ok vs the run. They dont get manhandled or anything. However, you have got to have guys that can get to the QB and we dont have that. Injuries just making it worse. We have 2 weeks to figure something vs UPig.

6. LB's are the best part of our D but they are slow. Not bringing anything new to light here. It is what it is. having to blitz at least one of them every play hurts us in coverage. We are seeing that frequently. And sometimes they are just too slow to get there. Being smart veteran football players helps hide their lack of speed at times thank goodness.

7. Worse group of DB's I've seen in awhile. This group is awful. 4 is supposed to be our best CB and he couldnt start anywhere else in the SEC besidess Vandy maybe. We lack talent here. That's the bottom line. Not getting any pressure from the DL makes us unable to mask any deficiencies this group has.

8. Bottom line- the offense is playing some solid ball now and the D is what makes this team so bad. We are already 6 PPG worse than last year defensively and that number likely grows with the teams left on the schedule. Leach gets some blame for our lack of talent on D but the main culprit is Arnett and NIL. Really needed a Wheat type from the portal and didnt get that. We certainly have missed in recruiting and the portal in the Secondary.

9. UPig has lost 4 games in a row and play Bama next. Kentucky got exposed yesterday. Auburn was off but goes to Baton Rouge and then plays Mississippi before us. Really big 3 games coming up for us. Got to find a way to win a couple. Defense will be the key.

Hail State and GTHOM

[tcdog70]

Agree. You nailed it

[KOdawg1]

This is the least excited I've been about Mississippi State football since 2008. Just nothing to be excited about right now

[BlackSailsDawg]

We scored what WMU has been allowing all season. Nothing to brag about at all. They are ranked 106th in the nation.

[BlackSailsDawg]

And 127th in scoring Defense.

[Coach34]

We scored what WMU has been allowing all season. Nothing to brag about at all. They are ranked 106th in the nation.

Exactly. Offense did it’s job

[BlackSailsDawg]

Exactly. Offense did it’s job

No the OC did not do his job. We are in the SEC they are a friggin MAC team. That game should have been over in the first half. You let the starting QB win it and sub in, not play around with your food like we are a cat toying with a mouse!

If this was TAMU struggling with a MAC, you would be honest. But it's your bestie....

[Jbp5]

If we are going to continue to blitz with slow LBs then it should be straight line blitz and quit trying to X blitz or loop blitzs because we are getting no pressure that way.

[Coach34]

No the OC did not do his job. We are in the SEC they are a friggin MAC team. That game should have been over in the first half. You let the starting QB win it and sub in, not play around with your food like we are a cat toying with a mouse!

If this was TAMU struggling with a MAC, you would be honest. But it's your bestie....

Offense did its job. Giving up 28 points and allowing them to run 77 plays on offense was the problem to anybody that is being honest

[Goldendawg]

Exactly. Offense did it?s job

It was against WMU for goodness sake! Coach, you have Genespage, maroon colored glasses on this season. I seen it all since first game in person in 1963, age 8, and this was Shira, Felker, Croom, JoMo bad. Did they happen to show the "crowd" on TV? I was there to the boring end and got sunburned to boot.*** They also scored 28 on us with their 3rd string QB. Our "program" is in big trouble again. Didn't think I would ever see us this bad again (55 year season ticket holder and Bulldog Club member).

[BlackSailsDawg]

Offense did its job. Giving up 28 points and allowing them to run 77 plays on offense was the problem to anybody that is being honest

No the OC did not do his job. And if he does this in SEC play, we will struggle to win a game.

[Quaoarsking]

The first offensive series with Wright was the most painful and brutally boring thing I've watched from us since 2019, maybe 2008. (And that's against a team like Western Michigan! Imagine it against a SEC defense!)

If we can win using it, then I'll get over it, but just as far as how "fun" it is to be a Mississippi State fan, the Leach era was amazing and the Arnett era is a bust.

[Really Clark?]

This team has a 1000 problems and y'all keep focusing on the offense which is problem 379. The defense is by far the biggest issue. It's not freaking close right now.

[Santiago]

This team has a 1000 problems and y'all keep focusing on the offense which is problem 379. The defense is by far the biggest issue. It's not freaking close right now.

My negative comments on Arnett changing the offense was that he wasted a ton of time and focus on all that, hiring new coaches on the offense, a new OC, etc .....when he knew darn well he better get that defense all sorted out in the off season with some urgency.
That has been my issue with it, and that really the coaches on offense deserved an opportunity to stay at MSU for this season if they wanted, due to the circumstances just as much as Arnett did.
Also our administration for making the decision on Arnett (Because Cohen wanted him at Auburn as DC or something). Somehow our administration decided the worst thing about our team was the offense, and Arnett got the HC job for it.

[Santiago]

We have made every team's QB look like a Heisman finalist, and they have their best QBRs against us.
Kentucky QB, Ole Miss QB, and Arkansas QB will look good against us. Aggie QB will destroy us like a video game offense. That is just going by analytics of this season.


I am not buying into any Sunday morning Cheerleading from the same guy the past three years every Sunday ripped apart the coaches with negativity and pushing the agenda to change.

[BlackSailsDawg]

This team has a 1000 problems and y'all keep focusing on the offense which is problem 379. The defense is by far the biggest issue. It's not freaking close right now.

The defense is a problem. The offense did not have to be a problem. People are pissed at what happened behind closed doors and the fact that we were lied to and the players too. This team is lost and it's due to the staff being lost.

Sure the defense sucks. Look who is running it and why did Arnett suck a recruiting for it? No way around it where we are right now is due to this staff!

[Quaoarsking]

440 yards for you yards loving Bulldogs out there.

I get that you're just trolling, but 440 is not a great performance against a bad MAC defense.

However, the offense was much, much better than the defense yesterday, so I don't want to pile on too hard.

[DownwardDawg]

This team has a 1000 problems and y'all keep focusing on the offense which is problem 379. The defense is by far the biggest issue. It's not freaking close right now.

They are pointing it out because Coach34 keeps talking about how good the offense is doing. It sucks. Just not as bad as the defense.

[BlackSailsDawg]

We have made every team's QB look like a Heisman finalist, and they have their best QBRs against us.
Kentucky QB, Ole Miss QB, and Arkansas QB will look good against us. Aggie QB will destroy us like a video game offense. That is just going by analytics of this season.


I am not buying into any Sunday morning Cheerleading from the same guy the past three years every Sunday ripped apart the coaches with negativity and pushing the agenda to change.

We allowed the 3rd string guy at friggin WMU the highest QBR of ANY QB on their team had all SEASON!

[Santiago]

They are pointing it out because Coach34 keeps talking about how good the offense is doing. It sucks. Just not as bad as the defense.

this for sure, and also those similar to Coach 34's thoughts on the offense for the past 3 years, ridiculing Leach, to me is indicative of the thinking in the Bryan building also.
They got their wish to change offense, at the expense of promoting the guy that has our defense over the past 4 seasons to HC.
Congratulations to those good ole boys. Getting what you deserve.

[Todd4State]

We scored the same amount as Iowa did against them.

Offense may not be the main problem but it's not great either and worse than last year.

[Santiago]

We scored the same amount as Iowa did against them.

Offense may not be the main problem but it's not great either and worse than last year.

We could have just kept the previous OL and OC side of things and replaced Arnett.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We have made every team's QB look like a Heisman finalist, and they have their best QBRs against us.
Kentucky QB, Ole Miss QB, and Arkansas QB will look good against us. Aggie QB will destroy us like a video game offense. That is just going by analytics of this season.


I am not buying into any Sunday morning Cheerleading from the same guy the past three years every Sunday ripped apart the coaches with negativity and pushing the agenda to change.

The last paragraph says a lot.

Anyone saying we are better at any part of this after Leach is blatantly lying, stirring the pot. But then these are the same people that got what they wanted with the good ol boys

[AlSwearengen]

This is what it will be as long as NIL exists in its current form. Maybe not quite this bad every year, but we will always have less talent than pretty much everyone else in the conference.

The only way to offset the NIL deficiency to some extent is to have a coach that recruits and players are tripping over themselves to play for.

[CaptainObvious]

This is what it will be as long as NIL exists in its current form. Maybe not quite this bad every year, but we will always have less talent than pretty much everyone else in the conference.

The only way to offset the NIL deficiency to some extent is to have a coach that recruits and players are tripping over themselves to play for.

Lane Kiffin already has a good paying job. Who else ya got in mind that is dynamic and a talent magnet?

[DownwardDawg]

this for sure, and also those similar to Coach 34's thoughts on the offense for the past 3 years, ridiculing Leach, to me is indicative of the thinking in the Bryan building also.
They got their wish to change offense, at the expense of promoting the guy that has our defense over the past 4 seasons to HC.
Congratulations to those good ole boys. Getting what you deserve.

To be fully transparent, I wasn't an air raid fan. But I had hope they way we had started running the ball more late last year. Add to that we were recruiting more dual threat type QB's.
What I've seen so far this year make me long for the Leach air raid! Lol
My LSU co workers were laughing at me during that game.

[TrapGame]

And if WMU's third string QB had started the game and got another quarter to throw we'd probably be having a different conversation this morning.

And our offense is not that good. We looked lost in the first half. What was the halftime score, 17-7?

[DownwardDawg]

This is what it will be as long as NIL exists in its current form. Maybe not quite this bad every year, but we will always have less talent than pretty much everyone else in the conference.

The only way to offset the NIL deficiency to some extent is to have a coach that recruits and players are tripping over themselves to play for.
Congress is already looking at it. AD's and University presidents are lobbying congress hard for a change. It's coming. Just gotta ride the storm. There will be a cap that evens the playing field and transfer rules will change again.

[EdwardDrayton]

Congress is already looking at it. AD's and University presidents are lobbying congress hard for a change. It's coming. Just gotta ride the storm. There will be a cap that evens the playing field and transfer rules will change again.

And it can't happen too soon.

[BlackSailsDawg]

And if WMU's third string QB had started the game and got another quarter to throw we'd probably be having a different conversation this morning.

And our offense is not that good. We looked lost in the first half. What was the halftime score, 17-7?

And here is the issue. It did not have to be that way.

[Jarius]

No the OC did not do his job. We are in the SEC they are a friggin MAC team. That game should have been over in the first half. You let the starting QB win it and sub in, not play around with your food like we are a cat toying with a mouse!

If this was TAMU struggling with a MAC, you would be honest. But it's your bestie....

The offense was really good when our best quarterback played. It was just ok when he didn’t. I will let you go check the PFF grade from this week to find out which one is the best.

[Jarius]

To be fully transparent, I wasn't an air raid fan. But I had hope they way we had started running the ball more late last year. Add to that we were recruiting more dual threat type QB's.
What I've seen so far this year make me long for the Leach air raid! Lol
My LSU co workers were laughing at me during that game.

We are scoring at the exact same clip as the air raid in this offense.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Congress is already looking at it. AD's and University presidents are lobbying congress hard for a change. It's coming. Just gotta ride the storm. There will be a cap that evens the playing field and transfer rules will change again.

I doubt it

[R2Dawg]

No the OC did not do his job. And if he does this in SEC play, we will struggle to win a game.

There were more games we were stone walled than lit anyone up with AR

[Homedawg]

There were more games we were stone walled than lit anyone up with AR

Short memories for the disciples

[Coach34]

They are pointing it out because Coach34 keeps talking about how good the offense is doing. It sucks. Just not as bad as the defense.

The offense is just as good as last years.

[Coach34]

And our offense is not that good. We looked lost in the first half. What was the halftime score, 17-7?

Bama was tied 3-3 at half with South Fla
Tenn was up 13-6 on Austin Peay at half

I could list more but it would only make the Airbone Cult look more stupid

[Goldendawg]

Bama was tied 3-3 at half with South Fla
Tenn was up 13-6 on Austin Peay at half

I could list more but it would only make the Airbone Cult look more stupid

I don't care how others look, just us, and we have looked terrible for 6 games now except for special teams. We hired a bunch of rookies to their positions and rethreads. Compare our HC decision to every other HC in the SEC except vandy and maybe Sunbelt Billy. Our "program" is bad at all levels. I am always there for home games and you could sit anywhere you wanted Saturday and those dedicated fans who were there were bored and negative. We are in trouble.

[Maroonthirteen]

1. It's fun having a girlfriend that is into football. However if she is an SEC fan, and when the new wears off, it is a pain in the ass trying to watch two teams. Been there......

[Goldendawg]

We are scoring at the exact same clip as the air raid in this offense.

We have played 3 OOC teams in our 3-3 season to date. Let's see how it looks after 1 more OOC and five SEC games coming up. The AR bored me to tears. This staff is just incompetent and their "O" is pounding round pegs into square holes, al JoMo. Must have found a copy of Croom/Woody's or JoMo's playbook in that same desk that had the note to hire CZA as HC.**

[RockyDog]

The last paragraph says a lot.

Anyone saying we are better at any part of this after Leach is blatantly lying, stirring the pot. But then these are the same people that got what they wanted with the good ol boys

We may not be better at offense but also Leach would not be here regardless. To think that you could just hand over his offense to a scrub like Spurrier and not miss a beat is delusional. We saw what it could be, it was named the Reliaquesf Bowl, probably the most boring bowl of last season.

[Mjoelner34]

1. It's fun having a girlfriend that is into football. However if she is an SEC fan, and when the new wears off, it is a pain in the ass trying to watch two teams. Been there......

Tell me about it. Mine is a rebelbearshark. The good news is, she is a bigger basketball fan which I don't really give a rat's ass about but I do enjoy shoveling food in their basketball club level.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We may not be better at offense but also Leach would not be here regardless. To think that you could just hand over his offense to a scrub like Spurrier and not miss a beat is delusional. We saw what it could be, it was named the Reliaquesf Bowl, probably the most boring bowl of last season.

Spurrier was never going to get it even if Leach retired and hand picked it

[FISHDAWG]

The offense is just as good as last years.

And every week you bitched about last year's offense... what changed your mind ?

[sandjunky]

The offense is just as good as last years.


And every week you bitched about last year's offense... what changed your mind ?

Leach threw the ball too much / it?s MS and it?s Wing T till death by gawd

[coachnorm]

Congress is already looking at it. AD's and University presidents are lobbying congress hard for a change. It's coming. Just gotta ride the storm. There will be a cap that evens the playing field and transfer rules will change again.

When you say Congress is looking into it, do you mean the body of lawmakers or a select group? I only hear about some congresspersons meeting with certain ADs. Could you identify the amounts of participants looking into NIL issues?

[Coach34]

And every week you bitched about last year's offense... what changed your mind ?

I hated watching 7 on 7 passing dump offs to a RB play after play. Woody Marks is our all-time leading receiver now. Thats ridiculous

[Quaoarsking]

The offense is just as good as last years.

This is an objectively false statement. Last year's offense was 44th nationally in FPI. Halfway through this year, we're sitting at #72. We'll see if that gets any better between now and Thanksgiving, but I doubt it improves 30 slots.

[Homedawg]

And here is the issue. It did not have to be that way.

We get it. At what point t will you 3 or 4 just stfu and move on. It's beyond miserable.

[Coach34]

This is an objectively false statement. Last year's offense was 44th nationally in FPI. Halfway through this year, we're sitting at #72. We'll see if that gets any better between now and Thanksgiving, but I doubt it improves 30 slots.

Well, no its not. Last year's offense scored 28.6 PPG without the ST and Defensive TD's added in

So far- this team scores 30 PPG

Thats just straight facts and not some made up FPI bullshit.

[Really Clark?]

This is an objectively false statement. Last year's offense was 44th nationally in FPI. Halfway through this year, we're sitting at #72. We'll see if that gets any better between now and Thanksgiving, but I doubt it improves 30 slots.

Scoring, he is always referencing scoring. You have been on here long enough that his main stat guideline is scoring. He is not wrong in that sense but he is only concerned about the scoreboard.

[Really Clark?]

We get it. At what point t will you 3 or 4 just stfu and move on. It's beyond miserable.

It's been a year of this. Well at least under this name.

[Homedawg]

Spurrier was never going to get it even if Leach retired and hand picked it

Had I been arnett I would have told the world, spurrier was the idiot who callled the timeout in the bowl game. Arnett didnt. Which was noble of him. And spurrier acted a dick. Glad that dude is gone. Prick.

[RezDog7]

No the OC did not do his job. We are in the SEC they are a friggin MAC team. That game should have been over in the first half. You let the starting QB win it and sub in, not play around with your food like we are a cat toying with a mouse!

If this was TAMU struggling with a MAC, you would be honest. But it's your bestie....

Tell me you don't understand football without telling me you don't understand football.

[Really Clark?]

Had I been arnett I would have told the world, spurrier was the idiot who callled the timeout in the bowl game. Arnett didnt. Which was noble of him. And spurrier acted a dick. Glad that dude is gone. Prick.

He's not wrong^^^

[Coach34]

Scoring, he is always referencing scoring. You have been on here long enough that his main stat guideline is scoring. He is not wrong in that sense but he is only concerned about the scoreboard.

Scoring is all that matters. The Scoreboard. End of story

[Really Clark?]

Scoring is all that matters. The Scoreboard. End of story

Hey I get it and you are right. AR cultist, last year was good new offense bad...scoring almost identical so far. Hypocritical

[KB21]

Leach threw the ball too much / it?s MS and it?s Wing T till death by gawd

You have to forgive these Mississippi high school football coaches. They are still about 35 years behind the rest of football.

There are a few that actually run something modern, but this may be the only state where you still see wing T based systems at the high school level.

[BigDawg81]

Offense is fine. Statistically, it?s close to what Lech did last year. I think it 1.5 point difference and a 15 yard difference. Barbay actually scored 17 on Alabama. Leach scored only 15 points in all 3 of the games combined. It?s only year 1 in Barbay?s offense.

[Coach34]

You have to forgive these Mississippi high school football coaches. They are still about 35 years behind the rest of football.

There are a few that actually run something modern, but this may be the only state where you still see wing T based systems at the high school level.

There are some 5A's in Louisiana still running the wing-T

[Really Clark?]

You have to forgive these Mississippi high school football coaches. They are still about 35 years behind the rest of football.

There are a few that actually run something modern, but this may be the only state where you still see wing T based systems at the high school level.

Frisco, TX won the 2022 state championship in 5A running the Wing T. It's run all over the country, but that contradicts your talking points.

[KB21]

Offense is fine. Statistically, it?s close to what Lech did last year. I think it 1.5 point difference and a 15 yard difference. Barbay actually scored 17 on Alabama. Leach scored only 15 points in all 3 of the games combined. It?s only year 1 in Barbay?s offense.

If we were playing FCS and MAC teams all the time, it would be an average offense for those levels. The problem is the play caller is just so bad at actually sequencing his plays that he renders the offense ineffective.

[Coach34]

If we were playing FCS and MAC teams all the time, it would be an average offense for those levels. The problem is the play caller is just so bad at actually sequencing his plays that he renders the offense ineffective.

30 PPG

[sandjunky]

30 PPG
It?s actually 29 points per game - 26.6 if you take out the FCS opponent

[sandjunky]

Well, no its not. Last year's offense scored 28.6 PPG without the ST and Defensive TD's added in

So far- this team scores 30 PPG

Thats just straight facts and not some made up FPI bullshit.

Straight facts and all - make sure you?re taking out ST score for this year - which you didn?t

[msudawg1200]

30 PPG

Yeah, and after 6 games last year we were averaging 38 PPG.

[sandjunky]

Yeah, and after 6 games last year we were averaging 38 PPG.

Tougher opponents last year too

Traded
Memphis for SELA
Bowling Green for W Michigan

[Really Clark?]

It?s actually 29 points per game - 26.6 if you take out the FCS opponent

Same as last season

[Santiago]

Spurrier was never going to get it even if Leach retired and hand picked it

I heard that too.
In your opinion, who would have been a HC candidate off the offensive side? I was ok with Arnett if he made minimum changes only, and tried to slowly acclimate to being the HC. Now in hindsight I wonder who else would have been an option.

[KB21]

I heard that too.
In your opinion, who would have been a HC candidate off the offensive side? I was ok with Arnett if he made minimum changes only, and tried to slowly acclimate to being the HC. Now in hindsight I wonder who else would have been an option.

No one, yet. Drew will be there soon, but not yet.

[Coach34]

It?s actually 29 points per game - 26.6 if you take out the FCS opponent

http://cfbstats.com/2023/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category09/sort01.html

30.2

[Really Clark?]

I heard that too.
In your opinion, who would have been a HC candidate off the offensive side? I was ok with Arnett if he made minimum changes only, and tried to slowly acclimate to being the HC. Now in hindsight I wonder who else would have been an option.

Zach was by far the closest to HC on the previous staff. No one on the offensive side. Drew, we will see in 5 years how he does. He's bright.

[Coach34]

Yeah, and after 6 games last year we were averaging 38 PPG.

We are transitioning on offense this year also. Leach was in Y3

[was21]

What else can be true? Spot on

[Santiago]

We are transitioning on offense this year also. Leach was in Y3

I say he was basically year 2, with the lack of a spring in Covid year, and short season. He had 2 recruiting cycles for talent at a school that had never been known for prolific passing. He was signing and recruiting more mobile QBs.
Our staff made the decision to transition yet again in an offense, when so much of the offense was returning.
I would think if we were running the previous system, with some running added, that we are producing more with the known offense.

edit: we could have been using those TE scholarships for defensive help instead.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Same as last season

No it isn't. I gave you the link that took out the FCS team we played in 2022 and 2023. In FBS, we are less than last year

[BlackSailsDawg]

http://cfbstats.com/2023/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category09/sort01.html

30.2

That's your way of masking it.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-game?date=2023-10-10

29.6 last year in FBS play with a tougher schedule and 26.6 this season. I get that you NEED to add in the FCS to prop up this staff.

[Really Clark?]

No it isn't. I gave you the link that took out the FCS team we played in 2022 and 2023. In FBS, we are less than last year

Yes it is and I even showed you the numbers when you only look at offensive scoring. 26.75 last year 26.6 this year. Almost identical.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I say he was basically year 2, with the lack of a spring in Covid year, and short season. He had 2 recruiting cycles for talent at a school that had never been known for prolific passing. He was signing and recruiting more mobile QBs.
Our staff made the decision to transition yet again in an offense, when so much of the offense was returning.
I would think if we were running the previous system, with some running added, that we are producing more with the known offense.

edit: we could have been using those TE scholarships for defensive help instead.

I posted on this when somebody stated that Leach was taking defensive scholarships to load up on WRs. It was totally false! Leach had less WRs vs the WR /TE room the year before.

You want to know why the defense is bad, because our new HC started signing less DLs

[BlackSailsDawg]

Yes it is and I even showed you the numbers when you only look at offensive scoring. 26.75 last year 26.6 this year. Almost identical.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-game?date=2023-10-10

No it isn't. You only get there by picking and choosing what to count.

[Santiago]

I posted on this when somebody stated that Leach was taking defensive scholarships to load up on WRs. It was totally false! Leach had less WRs vs the WR /TE room the year before.

You want to know why the defense is bad, because our new HC started signing less DLs

Our HC saw a bigger urgency to go get 2 Portal TE's, instead of fix his defense. That says a lot.

[Really Clark?]

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-game?date=2023-10-10

No it isn't. You only get there by picking and choosing what to count.

I'm not picking and choosing. You are still counting our 6 defensive and ST scores as the offense. It wasn't the offense scoring those points. 26.75 last year 26.6 this year. Period, end of story. You wanted to use stats from a site that didn't include FCS because you though it made a difference. It didn't.

[Coach34]

[url]No it isn't. You only get there by picking and choosing what to count.

says the guy picking choosing what he wants to count

[Really Clark?]

Our HC saw a bigger urgency to go get 2 Portal TE's, instead of fix his defense. That says a lot.

How many defensive players did we get from the portal vs TE's?

[Santiago]

How many defensive players did we get from the portal vs TE's?

Not enough, from what it looks like so far. I get that we have 3 injured on defense and the 2 TE's are really no help, unforeseen.

[Really Clark?]

Not enough, from what it looks like so far. I get that we have 3 injured on defense and the 2 TE's are really no help, unforeseen.

No you made the statement about urgency getting the 2 TE's, give the number of defensive players added.

[Santiago]

No you made the statement about urgency getting the 2 TE's, give the number of defensive players added.

yes I did.
What about it. It was a reply to Coach saying we are in a transition on offense.
That all goes back on the HC and staff decisions there.
The 2 TE scholarships could have helped us elsewhere this year. Not many would argue that.

[Really Clark?]

yes I did.
What about it. It was a reply to Coach saying we are in a transition on offense.
That all goes back on the HC and staff decisions there.
The 2 TE scholarships could have helped us elsewhere this year. Not many would argue that.

Then back up your facts to show the difference in the defensive players added vs TE's. And I got news for you, Leach was looking at transfer H-Backs/TE's to add the rooster. He was evolving, just very slowly.

[Santiago]

Then back up your facts to show the difference in the defensive players added vs TE's. And I got news for you, Leach was looking at transfer H-Backs/TE's to add the rooster. He was evolving, just very slowly.

I was already aware of Leach's evolving. Actually you know I have mentioned it on previous posts, and that we were headed toward more mobile QBs as well.

My point was our DC became HC, and did not evaluate his needs. I think he rushed in a transition instead of shore up what was needed to have a big year for himself. He became clouded in "his vision".

[Really Clark?]

I was already aware of Leach's evolving. Actually you know I have mentioned it on previous posts, and that we were headed toward more mobile QBs as well.

My point was our DC became HC, and did not evaluate his needs. I think he rushed in a transition instead of shore up what was needed to have a big year for himself. He became clouded in "his vision".

No, it's a false narrative. He knew the biggest issue was the backend and went and got a lot of new backend help. Albert missing the year hurts. You want debate evaluation, I can agree with that. Everything else is just a made up narrative.

[Santiago]

No, it's a false narrative. He knew the biggest issue was the backend and went and got a lot of new backend help. Albert missing the year hurts. You want debate evaluation, I can agree with that. Everything else is just a made up narrative.

Disagree.
Burning a true freshman OL this year to play TE , because we are changing the offense so quickly is not a false narrative.
Signing 2 more in the portal in this particular season was a bad move, when we have had other needs. Evaluation was bad on those, yes. How could we sell the position to any other TE out there in such a rush?
That does go back to the haste in blowing up things too fast.

[Really Clark?]

Disagree.
Burning a true freshman OL this year to play TE , because we are changing the offense so quickly is not a false narrative.
Signing 2 more in the portal in this particular season was a bad move, when we have had other needs. Evaluation was bad on those, yes. How could we sell the position to any other TE out there in such a rush?
That does go back to the haste in blowing up things too fast.

Disagree all you want. That's fine. Still doesn't change you are trying push a false narrative that he neglected adding to the defense for adding TE's.

[Santiago]

Disagree all you want. That's fine. Still doesn't change you are trying push a false narrative.

What am I "pushing"
I want to win, and do not have an agenda on how we get there, like some on the staff and boosters do.

We won 9 last year, with the players coming back that only know that system. My take is...win this year above any pride of the system. Get it done.
I do truly think a modified AR fits us best, and keep the mindset as coaches come and go. But it does look obvious that too much effort and energy was spent hiring and recruiting to the new system instead of focusing on what is needed to shore up the team and make a good run this year.
That is what pisses me off.

[BlackSailsDawg]

What am I "pushing"
I want to win, and do not have an agenda on how we get there, like some on the staff and boosters do.

We won 9 last year, with the players coming back that only know that system. My take is...win this year above any pride of the system. Get it done.
I do truly think a modified AR fits us best, and keep the mindset as coaches come and go. But it does look obvious that too much effort and energy was spent hiring and recruiting to the new system instead of focusing on what is needed to shore up the team and make a good run this year.
That is what pisses me off.

Yeah darn you pesky common sense people who think changing offense in year 4 of a sr team is the wrong thing to do!*****

[KB21]

What am I "pushing"
I want to win, and do not have an agenda on how we get there, like some on the staff and boosters do.

We won 9 last year, with the players coming back that only know that system. My take is...win this year above any pride of the system. Get it done.
I do truly think a modified AR fits us best, and keep the mindset as coaches come and go. But it does look obvious that too much effort and energy was spent hiring and recruiting to the new system instead of focusing on what is needed to shore up the team and make a good run this year.
That is what pisses me off.

That's what happens when your coach comes in with the mindset of "we have to run the ball" or "everything starts with the running game". If I'm interviewing a potential head coach, and they tell me that, I'm immediately dismissing them as a candidate for the job.

[Really Clark?]

What am I "pushing"
I want to win, and do not have an agenda on how we get there, like some on the staff and boosters do.

We won 9 last year, with the players coming back that only know that system. My take is...win this year above any pride of the system. Get it done.
I do truly think a modified AR fits us best, and keep the mindset as coaches come and go. But it does look obvious that too much effort and energy was spent hiring and recruiting to the new system instead of focusing on what is needed to shore up the team and make a good run this year.
That is what pisses me off.

Then don't make statements like "Our HC saw a bigger urgency to go get 2 Portal TE's, instead of fix his defense." Without backing it up. If Leach added TE's, which was coming by your admission as well, then you wouldn't be here saying that. That's pushing a narrative. And honestly at this point, I have doubts in Zach getting this righted. But I'm not going to make stuff up either.

[Saltydog]

And every week you bitched about last year's offense... what changed your mind ?

Rep. Given........

[sandjunky]

http://cfbstats.com/2023/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category09/sort01.html

30.2

You?re the one that set the goal posts on offensive points - that link includes the block punt scoop and score against SELA that bring total points to 181

So again it?s 29.0 Pts per game so far this year on offense - so again you are wrong

Through 6 games last year O scoring was 36.2 for the year 29.5

This years O - It?s only better to you because it?s the kind of offense you like nothing more - your bias shows too much and I wasn?t a big air raid fan and this offense sucks just about as bad as last years - the difference?

The air bone kept the shitty defense off the field masking the ineptness of Arnett?s defense that is being exposed this year

[HancockCountyDog]

I don't think anyone should argue that we have decided to install an offense that doesn't really fit the strengths of our offensive team. Will is not a read option QB. Our OL does not pass block well for 4+ seconds. We do not have competent TE's on the roster.

I think the offense is improving, but overall what we were told, "I will have the offense tailored to our talent" is simply not an accurate statement, otherwise we wouldn't be trotting out a TE that is simply not a strength on this team right now. When you have Will running read option plays, that is not tailoring your offense to the team's talent. That is taking your offense and forcing it down your team's throat.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because the much larger issue is that our defense is simply not good. We can argue scheme, but defense is always about talent. Offense is about scheme and Defense is about talent. Who on our roster right now is an NFL draft pick? Who might get picked for the Senior Bowl? Watson and Jett are college LB's that I don't think make an NFL practice squad. Crumedy and Pickering are in the same boat. Solid players that have significant limitations. We have to keep playing the younger kids to get them some experience so that next year isn't worse. We are recruiting JUCO very heavily right now. We will have to spend in the portal to just be competent next year.

The talent deficiency on the roster beyond the senior class is a problem that a lot of people saw coming, but we all thought we would have a 9 win type season this year so that next year's potential 5-6 win season would be tolerable. We can't go 5-7/6-6 and then turn around and go 4-8/5-7. The gap will simply continue to widen.

[KB21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8AFINVaoAAQNVT?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Net success rate from this Saturday. And some think this was a good win for us.

[Coach34]

Net success rate from this Saturday. And some think this was a good win for us.

Who said it was a good win?

It was a win with more offensive growth and another terrible performance defensively. I havent seen anybody say "good win"

[Really Clark?]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8AFINVaoAAQNVT?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Net success rate from this Saturday. And some think this was a good win for us.

I see a lot of teams above the mean of their opponent last Sat who don't run Air Raid. I don't that tells the story you want it too.

Find the posts that called this a good win. Another one of your lies. I was at the game and complained a lot even in our game posts.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I heard that too.
In your opinion, who would have been a HC candidate off the offensive side? I was ok with Arnett if he made minimum changes only, and tried to slowly acclimate to being the HC. Now in hindsight I wonder who else would have been an option.

Nobody

[HancockCountyDog]

The defense being so bad does gloss over the fact that WMU did force 3 punts and 4 field goals (one was negated due to a roughing call).

That is 7 drives that our offense couldn't punch it in against WMU on 7 seven drives. For context, Iowa, one of the worst offenses in the P5 punted or kicked FG's on 6 drives. So before we think that the offense is "fixed" I do think we need to measure our success.

I do hope we get healthy because the Arkansas game is extremely winnable.

[KB21]

The defense being so bad does gloss over the fact that WMU did force 3 punts and 4 field goals (one was negated due to a roughing call).

That is 7 drives that our offense couldn't punch it in against WMU on 7 seven drives. For context, Iowa, one of the worst offenses in the P5 punted or kicked FG's on 6 drives. So before we think that the offense is "fixed" I do think we need to measure our success.

I do hope we get healthy because the Arkansas game is extremely winnable.

And most of those drives stopped because of bad play calling.

[DownwardDawg]

The defense being so bad does gloss over the fact that WMU did force 3 punts and 4 field goals (one was negated due to a roughing call).

That is 7 drives that our offense couldn't punch it in against WMU on 7 seven drives. For context, Iowa, one of the worst offenses in the P5 punted or kicked FG's on 6 drives. So before we think that the offense is "fixed" I do think we need to measure our success.

I do hope we get healthy because the Arkansas game is extremely winnable.

We ain't beating Arkansas. Especially if Will is hurt. Unless.........their coaching staff is so terrible that a Mike Wright executed offense just takes them by surprise.

[Coach34]

The defense being so bad does gloss over the fact that WMU did force 3 punts and 4 field goals (one was negated due to a roughing call).

That is 7 drives that our offense couldn't punch it in against WMU on 7 seven drives. For context, Iowa, one of the worst offenses in the P5 punted or kicked FG's on 6 drives. So before we think that the offense is "fixed" I do think we need to measure our success. .

State 440 yards of TO and 41 points 0 Picks thrown/68% completion percentage/7.7 per pass/5.9 per rush
Iowa- 387 yards of TO and 41 points 2 Interceptions thrown- 50% completion percentage/6.0 per pass/5.9 per rush

Iowa punted 4 times, 1/2 on FG's, and threw 2 picks. Thats 8 times they were stopped isnt it????

[Coach34]

We ain't beating Arkansas. Especially if Will is hurt. Unless.........their coaching staff is so terrible that a Mike Wright executed offense just takes them by surprise.

There's alot we can do with Wright at QB- and we have 2 weeks to do it. Not just one. He will be getting 1st team reps for 2 weeks to build timing as well.

[KB21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F79XHwOWAAABKGZ?format=jpg&name=medium

[RezDog7]

And most of those drives stopped because of bad play calling.

Like the two dropped touchdown passes?

[Really Clark?]

Like the two dropped touchdown passes?

That were good play calls

[RezDog7]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F79XHwOWAAABKGZ?format=jpg&name=medium

We don't need some graph to tell us what we all see. This team is trash.

[Santiago]

Then don't make statements like "Our HC saw a bigger urgency to go get 2 Portal TE's, instead of fix his defense." Without backing it up. If Leach added TE's, which was coming by your admission as well, then you wouldn't be here saying that. That's pushing a narrative. And honestly at this point, I have doubts in Zach getting this righted. But I'm not going to make stuff up either.

You are literally asking me to back up something but then you continue with "IF"
How about this as backup information: The signing class was basically all done, so there was no "IF" signing a TE for this season.
The DC got hired to HC, and then suddenly saw his biggest needs on this years team as not having TE's. To the point of burning a true freshman OL for it.
Our defense sucks, and he coached it for now 4 seasons....so yeah it is pretty accurate to say he focused on getting TEs and changing things instead of focusing on his defensive needs.

They literally thought their biggest issue was the offense, and here we are... So I am pissed. The pride and egos of RTDF crap, or "Blue Collar MSU" got in the way of just seeing the roadmap to win this year, no matter what.
Now we get cheerleading posts to pathways to winning 6 games.

[Really Clark?]

You are literally asking me to back up something but then you continue with "IF"
How about this as backup information: The signing class was basically all done, so there was no "IF" signing a TE for this season.
The DC got hired to HC, and then suddenly saw his biggest needs on this years team as not having TE's. To the point of burning a true freshman OL for it.
Our defense sucks, and he coached it for now 4 seasons....so yeah it is pretty accurate to say he focused on getting TEs and changing things instead of focusing on his defensive needs.

Portal. You said portal. Don't go to signing class now when you were discussing portal.

[Santiago]

Portal. You said portal. Don't go to signing class now when you were discussing portal.

Leach was not getting a TE in the portal. You asked for facts, I gave them. You are working off of "IF"
.

[Really Clark?]

Leach was not getting a TE in the portal. You asked for facts, I gave them. You are working off of "IF"
.

Yeah I asked for facts, which you still haven't provided. So all they back to the original question, how many players did we get on the defensive side from the portal, since you are trying to create a narrative that he completely neglected that side of the ball for 2 TE's. I assume we didn't get any? 1-2?

[HancockCountyDog]

State 440 yards of TO and 41 points 0 Picks thrown/68% completion percentage/7.7 per pass/5.9 per rush
Iowa- 387 yards of TO and 41 points 2 Interceptions thrown- 50% completion percentage/6.0 per pass/5.9 per rush

Iowa punted 4 times, 1/2 on FG's, and threw 2 picks. Thats 8 times they were stopped isnt it????

I guess you are right, so we got stopped 7 times, and they got stopped 8. They scored 41 points on WMU despite throwing two interceptions, so I'm not sure if that helps or hurts your argument. Actually, I think I do know.

You do understand that I'm talking about Iowa. Right? So the fact that it is this close, is somewhat disturbing.

[Really Clark?]

Leach was not getting a TE in the portal. You asked for facts, I gave them. You are working off of "IF"
.

Ok, we don't know, I said he was going to add HB / TE's and you agreed with that earlier but now you want to change off of that. Fine. Again, the original premises of which you still have not answered was how many defensive transfers did we get? None, 1, 2?? You said he neglected the defense to get 2 TE transfers, so how many did we get?

[Coach34]

I guess you are right, so we got stopped 7 times, and they got stopped 8. They scored 41 points on WMU despite throwing two interceptions, so I'm not sure if that helps or hurts your argument. Actually, I think I do know.

You do understand that I'm talking about Iowa. Right? So the fact that it is this close, is somewhat disturbing.

Well, I think you’re missing the fact that Iowa played its starting QB almost the entire game whereas we played Wright quite a bit and experimented some offensively.

I’d also like to point out A&M and Petrino scored 20 on Bammer and everybody thinks A&M’s O is pretty good.

[Santiago]

Ok, we don't know, I said he was going to add HB / TE's and you agreed with that earlier but now you want to change off of that. Fine. Again, the original premises of which you still have not answered was how many defensive transfers did we get? None, 1, 2?? You said he neglected the defense to get 2 TE transfers, so how many did we get?

My understanding is the RB's recruiting would change for some bigger backs as well, but not a TE in the portal for this offseason. At least that is what I was told by a few.
If CZA did not neglect the defense this off season, then he is some other term for not seeing it coming.

[HancockCountyDog]

Well, I think you’re missing the fact that Iowa played its starting QB almost the entire game whereas we played Wright quite a bit and experimented some offensively.

I’d also like to point out A&M and Petrino scored 20 on Bammer and everybody thinks A&M’s O is pretty good.

You act like Wright is some true freshman. Wright beat FL with Vandy last year. It's not like we are letting a walk-on play QB.

Bottom line is that all the talk about the defense being terrible (which is appropriate) is glossing over the fact that our offense compared to Iowa which is one of the worst offenses in the country.

At the end of the day, I think Upig is damn winnable and we need improvement on both sides of the ball.

[Really Clark?]

My understanding is the RB's recruiting would change for some bigger backs as well, but not a TE in the portal for this offseason. At least that is what I was told by a few.
If CZA did not neglect the defense this off season, then he is some other term for not seeing it coming.

Ok, how did he neglect the defense?

[Jarius]

That's your way of masking it.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-game?date=2023-10-10

29.6 last year in FBS play with a tougher schedule and 26.6 this season. I get that you NEED to add in the FCS to prop up this staff.

Take out the defense and special teams scores from last year if you want to stop masking a shitty offense.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Take out the defense and special teams scores from last year if you want to stop masking a shitty offense.

That's a 2 way street. We can get down to the nuts and bolts.

[sandjunky]

Take out the defense and special teams scores from last year if you want to stop masking a shitty offense.

I did - see my post from earlier
29.5 pts per game with the defensive and ST scores

So far this year 29 pts per game

[sandjunky]

Take out the defense and special teams scores from last year if you want to stop masking a shitty offense.
Through 6 games
2022 - offense scoring- 36.2 pts per
2023 - offense scoring - 29 pts per

So leach was a TD better and likely had much better TOP

[KB21]

Through 6 games
2022 - offense scoring- 36.2 pts per
2023 - offense scoring - 29 pts per

So leach was a TD better and likely had much better TOP

Against better defenses as well.

[Jarius]

Through 6 games
2022 - offense scoring- 36.2 pts per
2023 - offense scoring - 29 pts per

So leach was a TD better and likely had much better TOP


Now add in all the other games like a normal human would, or just do the P5 numbers.

[Really Clark?]

I did - see my post from earlier
29.5 pts per game with the defensive and ST scores

So far this year 29 pts per game

Not a big deal but I don't get 29.5 last season. I keep getting below 29. 411 total points, less 6 defensive and ST scores. I get 28.4 last year.

[sandjunky]

I did the same - I went through every scoring play

Memphis - 49
Arizona - 39
LSU - 16
BG - 45
TAMU - 28
UPig - 40
UK - 13
UAt - 6
AU - 32
UGA - 13
ETSU - 49
OM - 24
Total - 354
Games- 12
PTs per game 29.5

[Really Clark?]

I did the same - I went through every scoring play

Ok. I got 411 - 42 = 369 / 13 = 28.38

[sandjunky]

Ok. I got 411 - 42 = 369 / 13 = 28.38

Bowl don?t count - leach was dead

[Jarius]

Not a big deal but I don't get 29.5 last season. I keep getting below 29. 411 total points, less 6 defensive and ST scores. I get 28.4 last year.

The real numbers that matter are the P5 opponents if we are going to trim the fat. What the offense does against Western Michigan and USM doesn’t matter. It’s what they do against teams with a pulse that matter. Leach ran the score up on the nobodies to mask his shitty offense. We are still not good offensively, but against teams that are in our own league/p5, we are almost exactly the same as we were last year, and that is with us already playing the best defense on our schedule. The fact that people are actually even arguing against this offense when the defense is playing the way it is shows us exactly who they are related to.

[Coach34]

Bowl don?t count - leach was dead

Sure it does. It was last season’s offense. They didn’t change anything for the bowl game

[sandjunky]

Sure it does. It was last season’s offense. They didn’t change anything for the bowl game

Bull$hit and you know it

So you would expect leach to call the game from the grave - par for the course with you if it helps your argument

[Todd4State]

The real numbers that matter are the P5 opponents if we are going to trim the fat. What the offense does against Western Michigan and USM doesn’t matter. It’s what they do against teams with a pulse that matter. Leach ran the score up on the nobodies to mask his shitty offense. We are still not good offensively, but against teams that are in our own league/p5, we are almost exactly the same as we were last year, and that is with us already playing the best defense on our schedule. The fact that people are actually even arguing against this offense when the defense is playing the way it is shows us exactly who they are related to.

It looks to me like if anything Leach's offense keeping Arnett's defense off the field was as valuable as actually scoring.

Even still- you can infer some things with like opponents:

SELU and East Tennessee are roughly the same- Leach scored 49, Barbay got 41

Arizona is the same. Leach got 39, Barbay got 31 in OT and 24 in regulation.

LSU- Leach got 16, Barbay got 14 against a much worse LSU team

Alabama- Leach got 6 and Barbay got 17. Good for Barbay!

South Carolina and Georgia are not the same obviously. But Barbay got 30 and Leach got 13.

Western Michigan and Bowling Green are about the same- Leach got 45 and Barby got 41.

So basically in five apples to apples comparisons Leach scored more in four of them.

[Really Clark?]

Bowl don?t count - leach was dead

Did we run a different offense for the bowl game? I mean...ok man. We are still about the same as last season while Leach was the coach, so far.

[KB21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FetfaLsXoAEw-4P?format=jpg&name=medium
Same graph as what I posted on page 6, except this is the data from games 1-6 of 2022. Notice Mississippi State is in the top right quadrant on this graph and the bottom left quadrant on the other. This football team was SIGNIFICANTLY better in 2022 on offense and defense than this one is.

[Todd4State]

Did we run a different offense for the bowl game? I mean...ok man. We are still about the same as last season while Leach was the coach, so far.

Spurrier definitely added some wrinkles. I don't think Leach should get credit for the offense in the bowl. Did he get credit for the win as a coach?

[Jarius]

It looks to me like if anything Leach's offense keeping Arnett's defense off the field was as valuable as actually scoring.

Even still- you can infer some things with like opponents:

SELU and East Tennessee are roughly the same- Leach scored 49, Barbay got 41

Arizona is the same. Leach got 39, Barbay got 31 in OT and 24 in regulation.

LSU- Leach got 16, Barbay got 14 against a much worse LSU team

Alabama- Leach got 6 and Barbay got 17. Good for Barbay!

South Carolina and Georgia are not the same obviously. But Barbay got 30 and Leach got 13.

Western Michigan and Bowling Green are about the same- Leach got 45 and Barby got 41.

So basically in five apples to apples comparisons Leach scored more in four of them.

We will see at the end of the year, but it’s pretty apparent that Barbay’s offense is going to be ok (nothing special) and Brock’s defense is not. The fact that we have a million threads discussing our offense which is virtually the same as last year and are focusing very little on our awful defense proves where a lot of people’s loyalties are. I’ve never seen a player’s family and friends helicopter over s message board the way this one’s have. It’s obnoxious.

[Really Clark?]

Spurrier definitely added some wrinkles. I don't think Leach should get credit for the offense in the bowl. Did he get credit for the win as a coach?

I don't man, it screams, hey that's another very low offensive performance that we can remove to make our ppg look better last season and removes one of our defensive scores too. I mean these numbers have been debated for a long long while, but now...oh Bowl game don't count. But whatever. At the end of the day the actual numbers are about the same, so far.

We will se how it ends up, I would be be surprised if it ends the same, worse or better at this point. We are close but in flux, execution almost is there then fart. Then injuries may hurt it worse...who knows.

[Really Clark?]

We will see at the end of the year, but it’s pretty apparent that Barbay’s offense is going to be ok (nothing special) and Brock’s defense is not. The fact that we have a million threads discussing our offense which is virtually the same as last year and are focusing very little on our awful defense proves where a lot of people’s loyalties are. I’ve never seen a player’s family and friends helicopter over s message board the way this one’s have. It’s obnoxious.

I agree

[sandjunky]

I don't man, it screams, hey that's another very low offensive performance that we can remove to make our ppg look better last season and removes one of our defensive scores too. I mean these numbers have been debated for a long long while, but now...oh Bowl game don't count. But whatever. At the end of the day the actual numbers are about the same, so far.

We will se how it ends up, I would be be surprised if it ends the same, worse or better at this point. We are close but in flux, execution almost is there then fart. Then injuries may hurt it worse...who knows.

Did leach call the plays while he was living and head coach?

Did he prepare the players for the bowl?

Who was the head coach again in bowl game?

See 1st question, did he call plays in bowl game?

It has nothing to do with making the offense look better last year

[KB21]

I mean, I just posted the graph that shows last year's offense was much better than this year's offense through the same time period, and there are still some saying that they are similar.

[Really Clark?]

Did leach call the plays while he was living and head coach?

Did he prepare the players for the bowl?

Who was the head coach again in bowl game?

See 1st question, did he call plays in bowl game?

It has nothing to do with making the offense look better last year

Ok, like I said the numbers have been debated for a long while, Bowl game was included because it was his offense and a guy several of the AR groupies wanted to be OC, until after the bowl game debacle. Throughout the summer, into the season, NOW let's remove the bowl game numbers. Fine. It's still about the same in offensive scoring. It's still about the same in common opponents from last season. It's still about the same vs SEC opponents as last season, so far. We will see how it ends up, I have my doubts but could see it ending up about the same as last season.

I don't recall very many if any giving Dan a pass when an interim called the defense in a bowl game and the defense looked bad.

[Really Clark?]

I mean, I just posted the graph that shows last year's offense was much better than this year's offense through the same time period, and there are still some saying that they are similar.

Raw scoring, you know what's being talked about. A lot of other metrics I agree with you on in comparison completely, but at the end of the day, it should give you pause that in raw scoring it's similar. We will see where it ends up.

[KB21]

Raw scoring, you know what's being talked about. A lot of other metrics I agree with you on in comparison completely, but at the end of the day, it should give you pause that in raw scoring it's similar. We will see where it ends up.

Raw scoring isn't being adjusted for opponent nor does it take into account the efficiency of the offense.

[Really Clark?]

Raw scoring isn't being adjusted for opponent nor does it take into account the efficiency of the offense.

Oh I know but at the end of the day you absolutely know what's being debated and that will not change right now.

[KB21]

Oh I know but at the end of the day you absolutely know what's being debated and that will not change right now.

What's being debated is the effectiveness of the two offenses. The fact that some of you are using raw scoring data doesn't change the fact that it is a poor stat to use when comparing the two offenses, nor does it change the fact that we were much better offensively at the same point during the season last year than we are this year.

[Really Clark?]

What's being debated is the effectiveness of the two offenses. The fact that some of you are using raw scoring data doesn't change the fact that it is a poor stat to use when comparing the two offenses, nor does it change the fact that we were much better offensively at the same point during the season last year than we are this year.

I'm not disputing most of that. At the end of the day, when the actual production is being similarly replicated in the actual scoring, that is what's going to be looked at. It's a valid point because you know that if the efficiencies increase then the raw point totals will as well. We have to be more efficient, no question. It should give a person pause if game play models are used, this offense potentially scores more even run less efficiently than last year. It's too murky right now, efficiency is too low and too few games to make a full analysis. I think the raw scoring will stay similar or drop back some the rest of the season, especially if Will is out an extended amount time. Interesting to see where it ends up.

[confucius say]

This is what it will be as long as NIL exists in its current form. Maybe not quite this bad every year, but we will always have less talent than pretty much everyone else in the conference.

The only way to offset the NIL deficiency to some extent is to have a coach that recruits and players are tripping over themselves to play for.

And a scheme that allows you to beat more talented teams. I'm not the biggest leach guy, but he did win as an underdog often.

[confucius say]

We are scoring at the exact same clip as the air raid in this offense.

If we do that by years end, that's great.

[confucius say]

I agree

Agree. The offense will work.
The defensive scheme will too.

We just need better players and a coach who inspires guys to run through a wall. Arnett is soft.

[Santiago]

We won 9 last year, and the previous year maybe would have hit 9 if we had a better than average kicker.
I want to win. But while we were winning , some took the approach to ridicule the coach and system.
We are not winning so far this year, but it is how bad we look losing also. Even the wins are an OT, and then a second tier team taking us to the 4th quarter in a game.

Provide any stat anyone wants, but winning is the bottom line. And it is true there has been an issue with the staff, some boosters, etc pushing for a total change in offense. Ok big dawgs, go ahead but you better win while doing it. And don't try to sell us on it, or this staff. Just go win.

[Coach34]

We won 9 last year, and the previous year maybe would have hit 9 if we had a better than average kicker.
I want to win. But while we were winning , some took the approach to ridicule the coach and system.


A) if if if

B) Nobody on this board ridiculed Leach. He was very respected and represented us well. Stop with the BS trying to mislabel history. There were those of us that simply didnt like the offense. It's the equivalent of the Wing-T to me. Play the Drop 8 every week and dump off passes to the RB = Buck Sweep in excitement. Just awful to watch. Barbay's O is like watching Yellowstone compared to the Leach Airbone which was like watching the Teletubbies

[Cooterpoot]

You Leach apologists need to stop. The guy was past his prime. His offense went backwards last year and the offense this year is scoring at a similar rate. There was nothing special happening here. He didn't recruit worth a damn! He barely ran practice. He wasn't even around for offseason stuff much at all. I appreciate last year's record, but it wasn't anything special. Just a good season.

[KB21]

A) if if if

B) Nobody on this board ridiculed Leach. He was very respected and represented us well. Stop with the BS trying to mislabel history. There were those of us that simply didnt like the offense. It's the equivalent of the Wing-T to me. Play the Drop 8 every week and dump off passes to the RB = Buck Sweep in excitement. Just awful to watch. Barbay's O is like watching Yellowstone compared to the Leach Airbone which was like watching the Teletubbies

This is a straight up lie. There was more lies told about Mike than any coach we have ever had.

[Coach34]

This is a straight up lie. There was more lies told about Mike than any coach we have ever had.

By who in our fanbase? What lies?

[KB21]

It blows me away that someone can disrespect and be so critical of Mike Leach, the best coach this program has ever had, and in the same breath praise the job that Arnett and his terrible coordinator choice Barbay have done. Particularly when Barbay can?t even establish a system and just calls plays without actually tying anything together.

[KB21]

By who in our fanbase? What lies?

Every one that was against hiring him. You included.

[Coach34]

Every one that was against hiring him. You included.

ok- but I'm not understanding. I hated the hire but liked the guy. His offense was average at State. The results bear that out. He's not the best coach in program history- you're just drunk with that comment.

But what lies were told about him as u just claimed?

[KB21]

ok- but I'm not understanding. I hated the hire but liked the guy. His offense was average at State. The results bear that out. He's not the best coach in program history- you're just drunk with that comment.

But what lies were told about him as u just claimed?

He was accused of being a racist by some that wanted him out. It really ramped up when NMP was getting criticized for the terrible job she did, and those accusers ramped things up. They tried to get him fired over a meme.

They lied multiple times about potential player mutinies in the locker room.

There were lies about his approach to the off season and how he managed the program.

[Coach34]

He was accused of being a racist by some that wanted him out. It really ramped up when NMP was getting criticized for the terrible job she did, and those accusers ramped things up. They tried to get him fired over a meme.

They lied multiple times about potential player mutinies in the locker room.

There were lies about his approach to the off season and how he managed the program.

well- no real State fan accused him of being racist
the player mutiny crap again was not State fan related
He was very hands off in the offseason- thats a fact.