We are 118th in the nation in time of possession

[Santiago]

I am so glad Peterson, I mean Arnett, and those good ole boy decision makers changed things up.
That was at least Arnett's excuse a few weeks ago for saying one thing when hired and doing another.

Thanks for allowing me to vent sarcastically here.

[EdwardDrayton]

I mean, it's just one stat but that's out of what, maybe 125 D1 schools that have football. So they should have four or five categories ranging from The Best to 100-125 being Y'all Suck At This.

[Santiago]

I mean, it's just one stat but that's out of what, maybe 125 D1 schools that have football. So they should have four or five categories ranging from The Best to 100-125 being Y'all Suck At This.

just one category, but it was what Arnett said as his big reason to changing his offense, time of possession. That was what he told SEC Network this season as to why he said at hiring he was keeping mostly the same, and then after hired made a 180 change.

[Santiago]

I mean, it's just one stat but that's out of what, maybe 125 D1 schools that have football. So they should have four or five categories ranging from The Best to 100-125 being Y'all Suck At This.

you make a good point. I got curious and looked at a few other stats.
- Yards per game ... 106th
- Scoring per game ... 81th
- Time of possession... 118th
Edit: and this is against some weak defenses statistically so far this year.

Just my take, but we were on a good track the past couple of years for an offense that helped us against more talented teams, and we were recruiting more athletic QBs for that system . But some good ole boys saying otherwise.

[gtowndawg]

Our Offense is Bad.
Our Defense is Bad.
Our Coaching is Bad.

We need to start over and get a real staff in here. Not the keystone cops, a REAL staff.

[Really Clark?]

Have y'all calculated our TOP last year in SEC games? It was not good, especially for a ball control offense. BTW, Kentucky is one position above us and Vandy, Tenn and UM are below us this year.

[dawgday166]

Our Offense is Bad.
Our Defense is Bad.
Our Coaching is Bad.

We need to start over and get a real staff in here. Not the keystone cops, a REAL staff.

So far .. it may be worse than JoMo ever was. Hard to do but they done it. If we go 4-8 ... burn it down and start over IMO.

And if we don't do that, at the very least get C34 off the payroll. Then he'll be the head cheerleader bashing everything the staff does. One of them farts crossways .... he'll be all over that telling em how they need to fart, how much they suck, etc.

[CaptainObvious]

you make a good point. I got curious and looked at a few other stats.
- Yards per game ... 106th
- Scoring per game ... 81th
- Time of possession... 118th
Edit: and this is against some weak defenses statistically so far this year.

Just my take, but we were on a good track the past couple of years for an offense that helped us against more talented teams, and we were recruiting more athletic QBs for that system . But some good ole boys saying otherwise.

I keep hearing about these good ole cigar boys but I find it hard to believe that actually <choose> to lose in order to get their way. Unless, they are clandestine Ole Miss Rebels sabotaging our program.

[dawgday166]

I keep hearing about these good ole cigar boys but I find it hard to believe that actually <choose> to lose in order to get their way. Unless, they are clandestine Ole Miss Rebels sabotaging our program.

Talking about the staff moreso than the money men. However ...

Bama stayed mired in mediocrity for around 30 years after Bear (with exception of a couple of years under Stallings). Every coach had to go along with a revolving door of Bama good ole boys, former Bama greats, etc. coming in and giving them football advice and whatnot.

They finally got desperate and went and hired Saban. Saban told them up front none of that shit was gonna take place under him ... HE was running the program and only him.

Fast forward 15 years later ....

[BlackSailsDawg]

I keep hearing about these good ole cigar boys but I find it hard to believe that actually <choose> to lose in order to get their way. Unless, they are clandestine Ole Miss Rebels sabotaging our program.

It's more of a elitist mentality. "I know better than you what MSU needs"

[BuckyIsAB****]

Some of us are getting EXACTLY what we wished for.

[dawgday166]

Some of us are getting EXACTLY what we wished for.

And I'm a betting I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. Not all state fans really care about winning. It's all sunshine and rainbows ain't it? I imagine there wasn't any mourning by some last December.

[BrunswickDawg]

It's more of an elitist mentality. "I know better than you what MSU needs"

It all started with probably these same guys grandfathers leading the charge to get Allyn McKeen fired - https://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/mississippi-state-football-history/2013/8/17/4288144/disconent-and-allyn-mckeen-why-the-grass-is-always-greener-problem

[dawgday166]

It all started with probably these same guys grandfathers leading the charge to get Allyn McKeen fired - https://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/mississippi-state-football-history/2013/8/17/4288144/disconent-and-allyn-mckeen-why-the-grass-is-always-greener-problem

Plus probably some new power brokers too.

[SPMT]

Our Offense is Bad.
Our Defense is Bad.
Our Coaching is Bad.

We need to start over and get a real staff in here. Not the keystone cops, a REAL staff.


It?s abundantly clear, despite what C34 and the good ole boys say.

It?s so clear, Ray Charles can see it.

[BlackSailsDawg]

And I'm a betting I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. Not all state fans really care about winning. It's all sunshine and rainbows ain't it? I imagine there wasn't any mourning by some last December.

Yep. It's about feeling important and access.

[BuckyIsAB****]

And I'm a betting I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. Not all state fans really care about winning. It's all sunshine and rainbows ain't it? I imagine there wasn't any mourning by some last December.

I think 99 percent care about winning.

But there was a large portion that was never ever going to go all in on Leach or anything to do with him. It is why we have hired guys to completely wash the program of Leach. All that is really left is Tyson Brown. And he wont be here next year. Watch.

We wanted to GET TUFF and win the way you have to win in the SEC by bleaching the program of one of the toughest coaches of all time and one of the few left that cared about doing it the right way. We didnt win because of the air raid. We won because of the culture and everything off the field.

But that wasnt good enough. So here we are. We are letting our good ol boys hire a good ol
Boy with an axe to grind that took full advantage of a first time head coach who needed a guiding hand. Thank God we are doing things the same way we have tried before I hated winning 9 games and beating ranked teams. And having a TRULY tough team.

Our kids went thru more or arguably just as much as anyone in the country since 2020 and we still won. But that wasnt good enough. Because the head coach didnt do it our way

[BuckyIsAB****]

And before someone tries to pick it apart, were we perfect and did we score 49 a game? Absolutely not. Was leach a 24/7 recruiting maniac? Hell no. No one wants to do that. Especially the way the system is now. But we were vastly vastly vastly better than we are right now. And 100000 percent tougher.

We needed to tweak the offense, not nuke it. We hired some folks who hated it and made sure it was disposed of. Congratulations. I hope yall have gotten what you wanted.

[dawgday166]

I think 99 percent care about winning.

But there was a large portion that was never ever going to go all in on Leach or anything to do with him. It is why we have hired guys to completely wash the program of Leach. All that is really left is Tyson Brown. And he wont be here next year. Watch.

We wanted to GET TUFF and win the way you have to win in the SEC by bleaching the program of one of the toughest coaches of all time and one of the few left that cared about doing it the right way. We didnt win because of the air raid. We won because of the culture and everything off the field.

But that wasnt good enough. So here we are. We are letting our good ol boys hire a good ol
Boy with an axe to grind that took full advantage of a first time head coach who needed a guiding hand. Thank God we are doing things the same way we have tried before I hated winning 9 games and beating ranked teams. And having a TRULY tough team.

Our kids went thru more or arguably just as much as anyone in the country since 2020 and we still won. But that wasnt good enough. Because the head coach didnt do it our way

I think what C34 has really, truly been telling us so far this season is ... that the 99% can go kick rocks and pound sand. They are in the "Airborne Cult".

JoMo 2.0 ... SMFH.

ETA: Personally ... I'm in the "Play hard nosed, tough football and win games Cult".

I'd take Mullen's "Country Club" back in a heartbeat. I honestly can't see how to blame him now for wanting to leave and eventually leaving.

I agree with everything you've said and I said early on our S&C, toughness, etc. wasn't the same. Part of the speed problem is that too.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think what C34 has really, truly been telling us so far this season is ... that 99% can go kick rocks and pound sand. They are are in the "Airborne Cult".

JoMo 2.0 ... SMFH.

Im not going to speak for him. But this isnt working.

We are not worse in almost every aspect of the game except RUNNING DA BAWL for no reason. It?s not an accident. I am pro running the ball dont get it twisted. But we have lost who we are. The one of us hire got bamboozled into becoming what some of us wanted us to be. If that makes sense

[BlackSailsDawg]

Im not going to speak for him. But this isnt working.

We are not worse in almost every aspect of the game except RUNNING DA BAWL for no reason. It?s not an accident. I am pro running the ball dont get it twisted. But we have lost who we are. The one of us hire got bamboozled into becoming what some of us wanted us to be. If that makes sense

Everybody thought we should have ran it more under Leach. He was making moves to do that. We lost to UK because the lack of attempts in the run game. But what this staff is doing right now is criminal. There is no excuse for running 12 personnel over 10 when you have a TE room where you are playing and burning a true freshman's RS and playing him out of position.

[Todd4State]

I keep hearing about these good ole cigar boys but I find it hard to believe that actually <choose> to lose in order to get their way. Unless, they are clandestine Ole Miss Rebels sabotaging our program.


It's more of a elitist mentality. "I know better than you what MSU needs"


Some of us are getting EXACTLY what we wished for.


It all started with probably these same guys grandfathers leading the charge to get Allyn McKeen fired - https://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/mississippi-state-football-history/2013/8/17/4288144/disconent-and-allyn-mckeen-why-the-grass-is-always-greener-problem


Yep. It's about feeling important and access.

Like Bucky, I think they care about winning and they may THINK that they are doing what is best for MSU. But as we see that isn't really always the case. Which is why we needed a buffer between the boosters and the program which is what the athletic director is. If we had Selmon at the time I can almost assure you that we have a different coach and a much better situation. The boosters do want access- but they also want to win. And losing to Ole Miss is something that they can't stand. They will turn on their chosen coaches if they don't win in a heartbeat. Which is why if we go 4-8 or 5-7 this group is probably toast.

And as with Allyn McKeen- a HUGE problem MSU has and always has had is a major lack of foresight. It's always knee jerk do the opposite of whatever the last coach did. Oh wait- why don't these players fit that completely opposite system?


I think 99 percent care about winning.

But there was a large portion that was never ever going to go all in on Leach or anything to do with him. It is why we have hired guys to completely wash the program of Leach. All that is really left is Tyson Brown. And he wont be here next year. Watch.

We wanted to GET TUFF and win the way you have to win in the SEC by bleaching the program of one of the toughest coaches of all time and one of the few left that cared about doing it the right way. We didnt win because of the air raid. We won because of the culture and everything off the field.

But that wasnt good enough. So here we are. We are letting our good ol boys hire a good ol
Boy with an axe to grind that took full advantage of a first time head coach who needed a guiding hand. Thank God we are doing things the same way we have tried before I hated winning 9 games and beating ranked teams. And having a TRULY tough team.

Our kids went thru more or arguably just as much as anyone in the country since 2020 and we still won. But that wasnt good enough. Because the head coach didnt do it our way


And before someone tries to pick it apart, were we perfect and did we score 49 a game? Absolutely not. Was leach a 24/7 recruiting maniac? Hell no. No one wants to do that. Especially the way the system is now. But we were vastly vastly vastly better than we are right now. And 100000 percent tougher.

We needed to tweak the offense, not nuke it. We hired some folks who hated it and made sure it was disposed of. Congratulations. I hope yall have gotten what you wanted.


Im not going to speak for him. But this isnt working.

We are not worse in almost every aspect of the game except RUNNING DA BAWL for no reason. It?s not an accident. I am pro running the ball dont get it twisted. But we have lost who we are. The one of us hire got bamboozled into becoming what some of us wanted us to be. If that makes sense

Bucky on fire! REP GIVEN!

[bulldawg28]

Some of us are getting EXACTLY what we wished for.

We wished Will would play better but that ain't happening.

[Santiago]

I keep hearing about these good ole cigar boys but I find it hard to believe that actually <choose> to lose in order to get their way. Unless, they are clandestine Ole Miss Rebels sabotaging our program.




I have never referred to cigar boys in my posts. Good ole boys, being those that got their buddies hired, and those that pushed out the offensive system we had in place , and rushed in making a 180 changing it. Alos those in the administration that supported it.
This points at the staff and administration, and if any alumni then also.
It is obvious that there was this push to rush way too fast in throwing out the offensive style even before we had the players for it.

[Santiago]

And before someone tries to pick it apart, were we perfect and did we score 49 a game? Absolutely not. Was leach a 24/7 recruiting maniac? Hell no. No one wants to do that. Especially the way the system is now. But we were vastly vastly vastly better than we are right now. And 100000 percent tougher.

We needed to tweak the offense, not nuke it. We hired some folks who hated it and made sure it was disposed of. Congratulations. I hope yall have gotten what you wanted.

Agree with you Bucky. And for these actions by admin, staff, and any boosters with their nose in this, it has soured me from supporting MSU , until we clean house of this backwards crap.

[Santiago]

Have y'all calculated our TOP last year in SEC games? It was not good, especially for a ball control offense. BTW, Kentucky is one position above us and Vandy, Tenn and UM are below us this year.

Did you actually look up the Ole Miss scoring, overall record, and yards per game for this year. It makes us look even worse. I am ignoring that you had to use Vandy as a bench mark.

This year, UM , since you want to compare:
Record , 4-1.
- Yards per game ... 11th in the nation
- Scoring per game ... 14th in the nation
- Time of possession... 127th(because they are scoring so dang fast, but I would imagine Arnett hates that since it puts his defense on the field too much)

Ole Miss has played LSU and Bama also, same as us.


Our stats last year are way better than this year, and that is after a full season. So far this year we have played weaker defenses statistically.

We are a few inches from being 1-4 this year moreso than the cheerleading a couple of people have done on here that we are improving.

[Santiago]

And anyone saying give all this a chance this year, I am tuning them out. The boosters, staff and admin that wanted to nuke what we were building over the past 3 years showed no patience. Better skill players, and mobile qb's were being recruited and signed. The AR was headed toward modifications , and it was still the best equalizer on talent differential.
I cannot support this program with this good ole boy stuff going on.
I hope we win, and turn things around, but I am done as far as supporting good ole boys that nuked what we were building.

[Todd4State]

And anyone saying give all this a chance this year, I am tuning them out. The boosters, staff and admin that wanted to nuke what we were building over the past 3 years showed no patience. Better skill players, and mobile qb's were being recruited and signed. The AR was headed toward modifications , and it was still the best equalizer on talent differential.
I cannot support this program with this good ole boy stuff going on.
I hope we win, and turn things around, but I am done as far as supporting good ole boys that nuked what we were building.

What has soured me is the lying about the scheme to the fans and the players. At least be honest about the scheme. It was intentionally misleading I'm sure with the thought that whatever they're doing now would be betters. And then they could say "see told you so".

Instead we are left with a team that is poorly coached, boring, and isn't working on top of not being what the fans wanted in the first place.

[Really Clark?]

Did you actually look up the Ole Miss scoring, overall record, and yards per game for this year. It makes us look even worse. I am ignoring that you had to use Vandy as a bench mark.

This year, UM , since you want to compare:
Record , 4-1.
- Yards per game ... 11th in the nation
- Scoring per game ... 14th in the nation
- Time of possession... 127th(because they are scoring so dang fast, but I would imagine Arnett hates that since it puts his defense on the field too much)

Ole Miss has played LSU and Bama also, same as us.


Our stats last year are way better than this year, and that is after a full season. So far this year we have played weaker defenses statistically.

We are a few inches from being 1-4 this year moreso than the cheerleading a couple of people have done on here that we are improving.

What? I wasn't using Vandy as a bench mark. That's silly. Just showing that 3 schools are below us in TOP, two good offenses at that and Kentucky is right with us. TOP is a pretty useless stat to be measured by. Just sick of those acting like we were great at ball control in SEC games when we were not. Especially those who lean heavily on metrics to be using TOP is pretty comical and showing they didn't actually look to see how we actually did last year. It would have put us somewhere in the 90's in rankings in SEC games.

[TrapGame]

And anyone saying give all this a chance this year, I am tuning them out. The boosters, staff and admin that wanted to nuke what we were building over the past 3 years showed no patience. Better skill players, and mobile qb's were being recruited and signed. The AR was headed toward modifications , and it was still the best equalizer on talent differential.
I cannot support this program with this good ole boy stuff going on.
I hope we win, and turn things around, but I am done as far as supporting good ole boys that nuked what we were building.

Arnett was set up for failure from the word go. He's in over his head. He might be a good head coach ten years from now, but not at this moment. Another year with Arnett is a deeper hole to crawl out of when he's gone. He was promoted after a tragic situation. There was no formal coaching search. This is not the same as hiring some guy with a decent resume, some head coaching experience and giving him two or three years to build his team.

[Santiago]

Arnett was set up for failure from the word go. He's in over his head. He might be a good head coach ten years from now, but not at this moment. Another year with Arnett is a deeper hole to crawl out of when he's gone. He was promoted after a tragic situation. There was no formal coaching search. This is not the same as hiring some guy with a decent resume, some head coaching experience and giving him two or three years to build his team.

I agree, and is why I keep saying we need to clean house on those that were in his ear on changing so drastically this year on the offense. It is obvious there was a group pushing for an instant nuking of what we were building and this was the opportunity. We had Parson, Creed, Justin Brown(left due to not going to catch balls his freshman year with limited WRs on the field), and others were coming in that would amp up any modified AR.
But for the sake of returning players , transitioning for them, it was a very stupid admin, staff, and booster effort of changing things so fast.

Arnett could have brought in an AR OC, or any combination of efforts with Barbay to keep the transition this year slow. They rushed it all, and we had boosters championing this as progress.
How the heck do they think we signed Parson, Creed, Brown, and others? IT was not because we RTDF.
That is my take on it at least, right or wrong. I hope those that cheered for this are happy, because they will lose NIL funding from all this crap.

[CoachT14]

Have y'all calculated our TOP last year in SEC games? It was not good, especially for a ball control offense. BTW, Kentucky is one position above us and Vandy, Tenn and UM are below us this year.

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Ole Miss are low because they are actually scoring and scoring quickly. We are just getting 3 and outs. Being bunched in with Vandy with TOP isn't a good thing. And let's be honest, Vandy is scoring more PPG than us right now anyway.

Ole Miss - 44.6 PPG - 6th in the country
Kentucky - 37 PPG - 21st in the country
Tennessee - 36 PPG - 29th in the country
Vandy - 31.3 PPG - 56th in the country
State - 28 PPG - 73rd in the country

We are so great.

[dawgday166]

And anyone saying give all this a chance this year, I am tuning them out. The boosters, staff and admin that wanted to nuke what we were building over the past 3 years showed no patience. Better skill players, and mobile qb's were being recruited and signed. The AR was headed toward modifications , and it was still the best equalizer on talent differential.
I cannot support this program with this good ole boy stuff going on.
I hope we win, and turn things around, but I am done as far as supporting good ole boys that nuked what we were building.

During the transition I was very puzzled by Arnett's actions, his coaching moves, etc. How he seemed to treat all the Leach's O staff. Didn't understand it. I felt like he almost hated everything about Leach and the O staff even tho Leach was the one who gave him the opportunity to come here and have total freedom running his scheme.

But I just said to myself it's his team now and he needs to set the course. I thought it would set us back but was hoping it didn't set us back much.

Now I understand why I felt Arnett hated Leach so much.

[Really Clark?]

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Ole Miss are low because they are actually scoring and scoring quickly. We are just getting 3 and outs. Being bunched in with Vandy with TOP isn't a good thing. And let's be honest, Vandy is scoring more PPG than us right now anyway.

Ole Miss - 44.6 PPG - 6th in the country
Kentucky - 37 PPG - 21st in the country
Tennessee - 36 PPG - 29th in the country
Vandy - 31.3 PPG - 56th in the country
State - 28 PPG - 73rd in the country

We are so great.

Oh I know, I was just using them because TOP is not an end all be all stat. Just tired of how we were this ball control offense from some but they didn't research that we really were not in the SEC. Especially those that use TOP now but are metrics centered with other arguments. Analytics don't regard TOP very highly.

[CoachT14]

Oh I know, I was just using them because TOP is not an end all be all stat. Just tired of how we were this ball control offense from some but they didn't research that we really were not in the SEC. Especially those that use TOP now but are metrics centered with other arguments. Analytics don't regard TOP very highly.

I definitely agree. TOP is extremely meaningless. If you are a modern college football coach and still using that as a barometer for success, you have no business being a college football coach. Looking at you Zach Croom.

[Santiago]

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Ole Miss are low because they are actually scoring and scoring quickly. We are just getting 3 and outs. Being bunched in with Vandy with TOP isn't a good thing. And let's be honest, Vandy is scoring more PPG than us right now anyway.

Ole Miss - 44.6 PPG - 6th in the country
Kentucky - 37 PPG - 21st in the country
Tennessee - 36 PPG - 29th in the country
Vandy - 31.3 PPG - 56th in the country
State - 28 PPG - 73rd in the country

We are so great.

But we scored 2 TDs against Bama ***

[Santiago]

I definitely agree. TOP is extremely meaningless. If you are a modern college football coach and still using that as a barometer for success, you have no business being a college football coach. Looking at you Zach Croom.

Then tell Arnett that. Because he was on TV this season on SEC, saying that was the main reason he changed offense...... after publicly saying he would change little.
That is the reason I brought up TOP.
And he has gone against 4 of the worst defenses in the nation so far.

[CoachT14]

But we scored 2 TDs against Bama ***

Unfortunately for the folks who have their access with the program renewed, overall stats don't like like our coaching staff.

[Santiago]

Unfortunately for the folks who have their access with the program renewed, overall stats don't like like our coaching staff.

And they could care less about the young recruits we signed that thought they were coming in as Coach Leach's last recruiting class. Parson held the class together telling them that.
But you are right, those wanted access and to run what they want instead.
We were so close to breaking loose in this AR modified with some really athletic skill players. Something we never had in the past.

[Really Clark?]

Then tell Arnett that. Because he was on TV this season on SEC, saying that was the main reason he changed offense...... after publicly saying he would change little.
That is the reason I brought up TOP.
And he has gone against 4 of the worst defenses in the nation so far.

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

[CoachT14]

Then tell Arnett that. Because he was on TV this season on SEC, saying that was the main reason he changed offense...... after publicly saying he would change little.
That is the reason I brought up TOP.
And he has gone against 4 of the worst defenses in the nation so far.

For reference:

Scoring defense rankings of the teams we have played:
SELA - 34.2 PPG | FCS team, but it's the equivalent of around 120th in the nation
Arizona - 19 PPG | 35th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation
South Carolina - 29.4 PPG | 99th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation

We've played an average of 76th scoring defense.

Scoring defense rankings for Ole Miss for reference:
Mercer - 28.6 PPG | FCS - equivalent of the 90th overall defense
Tulane - 17.4 PPG | 26th in the nation
Georgia Tech - 30.8 PPG | 105th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation

Equivalent of 68th in nation.

So not only have they played better defenses, they are scoring nearly 20 PPG more than us. But yeah this team and offense is great guys. Let's just ignore everything else, Coach34 has his access again so all is well and good for Poor Ole State.

[CoachT14]

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

This is a great example of the very few times, TOP matters.

[Santiago]

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

[Santiago]

This is a great example of the very few times, TOP matters.

How bad will it be this year then against the KY defense? They are the only SEC team in top 20 in SEC efficiency, and our current TOP this season against some of the worst defenses in the nation is bad.

[Really Clark?]

If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

In SEC games last year we didn't control the clock. Outside of the Memphis game where we were plus 22 min, we would have been around
90-95th in TOP last year. That one game is the only reason we were ranked 54th. The other 12 average was very poor, if that is some kind of bench mark for you and for a ball control offense, we didn't control it well.

In opinion it wasn't just the QB or the system. They fed each other absolutely, but there were several factors. When we could run to control the ball our QB had to make those calls, the sideline was not bought in completely. Why was a natural explosive slot WR playing outside? He could destroy his match ups to extend drives. Why wouldn't the QB take some shots to loosen the defense? I think it was more than just the QB but he was a factor.

[dawgday166]

Oh I know, I was just using them because TOP is not an end all be all stat. Just tired of how we were this ball control offense from some but they didn't research that we really were not in the SEC. Especially those that use TOP now but are metrics centered with other arguments. Analytics don't regard TOP very highly.

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

[Really Clark?]

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

[Santiago]

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

Just my take, but I don't think anyone is saying the past few years were great, but we started winning consistently. Leach was building up a system here that was so foreign to MSU, we were way behind in QB talent and WR talent for years in the SEC. To me, he was about to start hitting his stride with his recruits coming in.
He basically took the Moorhead team, and started running the air raid, and won with it and a tough team overall.
To me, it was more of seeing "if he can do this with Will at QB then lookout when Parsons, and other mobile QBs start running it". He was able to make us decently competitive in it while transitioning.

[Santiago]

For reference:

Scoring defense rankings of the teams we have played:
SELA - 34.2 PPG | FCS team, but it's the equivalent of around 120th in the nation
Arizona - 19 PPG | 35th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation
South Carolina - 29.4 PPG | 99th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation

We've played an average of 76th scoring defense.

Scoring defense rankings for Ole Miss for reference:
Mercer - 28.6 PPG | FCS - equivalent of the 90th overall defense
Tulane - 17.4 PPG | 26th in the nation
Georgia Tech - 30.8 PPG | 105th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation

Equivalent of 68th in nation.

So not only have they played better defenses, they are scoring nearly 20 PPG more than us. But yeah this team and offense is great guys. Let's just ignore everything else, Coach34 has his access again so all is well and good for Poor Ole State.


Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

Amen. Some MSU boosters and posters ridiculed Leach all while he was rebuilding our culture, and a system that could be coach proof if we had OC's come and go, and it would attract QBs and WRs we never signed before. But the way some gave it a stupid nickname to the offense of a future NCAA hall of fame coach, and griped through it was the most MSU thing ever. At MSU if you coached HS or just simply from MS and share old school group think, you can rise to unknown heights in our administration.

I really wanted to see the young guys, Parson, Creed, Seth, Justin Brown(transferred after spring since the offense changed), and then the upcoming WR's in this recruiting class all on the field running the modified AR next season.... Dang.
This seriously is the most MSU thing we have done lately, and shows the leadership of admin and staff is to blame yet again for it. I wish there could be a clean house, and hire from Wazzou or other outpost places who know how to get things done and not "this is MSU football".

[Really Clark?]

Amen. Some MSU boosters and posters ridiculed Leach all while he was rebuilding our culture, and a system that could be coach proof if we had OC's come and go, and it would attract QBs and WRs we never signed before. But the way some gave it a stupid nickname to the offense of a future NCAA hall of fame coach, and griped through it was the most MSU thing ever. At MSU if you coached HS or just simply from MS and share old school group think, you can rise to unknown heights in our administration.

I really wanted to see the young guys, Parson, Creed, Seth, Justin Brown(transferred after spring since the offense changed), and then the upcoming WR's in this recruiting class all on the field running the modified AR next season.... Dang.
This seriously is the most MSU thing we have done lately, and shows the leadership of admin and staff is to blame yet again for it. I wish there could be a clean house, and hire from Wazzou or other outpost places who know how to get things done and not "this is MSU football".

Nvm, glitch on my end

[BlackSailsDawg]

If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

This

[TorpedoIPA]

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

I would guess that Arnette has done away with midnight maneuvers ?

[BlackSailsDawg]

In SEC games last year we didn't control the clock. Outside of the Memphis game where we were plus 22 min, we would have been around
90-95th in TOP last year. That one game is the only reason we were ranked 54th. The other 12 average was very poor, if that is some kind of bench mark for you and for a ball control offense, we didn't control it well.

In opinion it wasn't just the QB or the system. They fed each other absolutely, but there were several factors. When we could run to control the ball our QB had to make those calls, the sideline was not bought in completely. Why was a natural explosive slot WR playing outside? He could destroy his match ups to extend drives. Why wouldn't the QB take some shots to loosen the defense? I think it was more than just the QB but he was a factor.

In SEC play last year our TOP was over 29 minutes on average.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

FIRE!!! Agree 100%

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dawgday166 again.

[BlackSailsDawg]

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

We don;t have the season we wanted and hoped for because or poor coaching and decisions.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So far .. it may be worse than JoMo ever was. Hard to do but they done it. If we go 4-8 ... burn it down and start over IMO.

And if we don't do that, at the very least get C34 off the payroll. Then he'll be the head cheerleader bashing everything the staff does. One of them farts crossways .... he'll be all over that telling em how they need to fart, how much they suck, etc.

One thing I do know, whenever we get good enough to win the whole thing, it will not be the type of team, coaches, or play calling that C34 would approve of.

[dawgday166]

One thing I do know, whenever we get good enough to win the whole thing, it will not be the type of team, coaches, or play calling that C34 would approve of.

I agree. Have some rep.

[smootness]

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

[Really Clark?]

But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

Oh I agree, TOP is mostly a useless stat. I think the Kentucky is one of the times when it can illustrate an overall problem with the offense going 3 and out. Close game, low scoring until the very end and a 20 min TOP differential. That's pretty crazy and screams a lot of 3 and outs.

[Todd4State]

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

There are a lot of MSU fans and boosters that feel the way you do.

Outstanding post.

[Santiago]

But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

nm

[BuckyIsAB****]

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

[BlackSailsDawg]

Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

Yep! That's where I am at.

[Santiago]

Yep! That's where I am at.


Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

I can see it on the 247 site reporters also, carrying the message from the administration or staff about it also.
I get things were not perfect but good grief he was not treated right when here. It is these reasons that have turned me from giving a really big NIL donation this year, if big is a 6 figure donation. And I am not just saying that for internet boasting. I legitimately have soured on MSU in how they treated an NCAA legendary coach, and how a portion of our fanbase treated him, as well as how fast they ditched any resemblance of him being at MSU.
We lied to the signing class saying just some adjustments but no big changes.
I love the university, but we have some really backward stuff happening and I am not donating to this good ole boy system.

[Cooterpoot]

Air Raiders = Flat Earthers