It doesnt matter

[BuckyIsAB****]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our play calls are just about as long as a masters dissertation

[BlackSailsDawg]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

So he isn't allowed to audible?

[MBDawg601]

I don't care if the plays are nursery rhymes or short stories. It is not that hard to learn a playbook. If that is the problem we may be in worse shape than I thought.

[BuckyIsAB****]

So he isn't allowed to audible?

No

[BuckyIsAB****]

I don't care if the plays are nursery rhymes or short stories. It is not that hard to learn a playbook. If that is the problem we may be in worse shape than I thought.

Easy to say

[DownwardDawg]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

If all this stuff is true, Arnett will indeed be back calling the defense.......at another school.

[DownwardDawg]

I don't care if the plays are nursery rhymes or short stories. It is not that hard to learn a playbook. If that is the problem we may be in worse shape than I thought.

That's all on the coaches. If this is true, it's like the Croom years again.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I don't care if the plays are nursery rhymes or short stories. It is not that hard to learn a playbook. If that is the problem we may be in worse shape than I thought.

Yet here we are with WRs seeing a coverage and opting out of the main route while the QB sees the defense and throws to the proper spot.

Yet here we are with a seasoned OT pulling in the wrong direction based on what he heard.

Yet here we are with RBs not blocking.

Yet here we are with a blocking scheme that has the OL confused when people twists.


Yet

Here

We

Are

[HoopsDawg]

I don't care if the plays are nursery rhymes or short stories. It is not that hard to learn a playbook. If that is the problem we may be in worse shape than I thought.

Pretty bad take here

[confucius say]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

Back doing defense because he is fired as HC or because he takes over for Brock?

[Cooterpoot]

Thanks Brad!*

[confucius say]

It certainly looks like we are thinking too much and uncertain of what to do. Makes you play slow and with hesitation.

Simplify it.

[Really Clark?]

Compared to other schools, it's similar. Some shorter, some longer. Compared to Coach Leach, it's very long.

[Santiago]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

Bucky thank you. I would like your take on a few things, and I definitely am not messing with you. I am wondering why did Arnett say when hired he would change very little, and then let the whole offensive staff go basically.
Also, Could CZA just have simply kept the QB coach, promote to OC, and add run packages to what we had?

I have probably missed some threads in the past if you already discussed.
To me, why did CZA say he would change very little, and then purge the whole thing.

[KB21]

Did he try to take Kyle Shanahan's play call terminology from the NFL? Here is a Kyle Shanahan play call: Y Short to Strong Right Clamp Ace, H2 Y Bingo X Comeback with Roll Right Z Shallow on Two.

A Mike Leach play call is 95 post wheel.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Compared to other schools, it's similar. Some shorter, some longer. Compared to Coach Leach, it's very long.

Im not trying to be that guy, but I have spent a lot of time with this game and the terminology we are using is ridiculous

[BuckyIsAB****]

Did he try to take Kyle Shanahan's play call terminology from the NFL? Here is a Kyle Shanahan play call: Y Short to Strong Right Clamp Ace, H2 Y Bingo X Comeback with Roll Right Z Shallow on Two.

A Mike Leach play call is 95 post wheel.

Yes

[BuckyIsAB****]

Bucky thank you. I would like your take on a few things, and I definitely am not messing with you. I am wondering why did Arnett say when hired he would change very little, and then let the whole offensive staff go basically.
Also, Could CZA just have simply kept the QB coach, promote to OC, and add run packages to what we had?

I have probably missed some threads in the past if you already discussed.
To me, why did CZA say he would change very little, and then purge the whole thing.

A little bird got in his ear

[KB21]

Yes

That system is great, but the terminology and how much of the system you run at the college level would definitely have to be condensed down.

[KB21]

This can't be the play calls they had at App State. Feels like Barbay tasted the wide zone based scheme at App State and then decided to read The Shanahan System for Dummies.

[Really Clark?]

Im not trying to be that guy, but I have spent a lot of time with this game and the terminology we are using is ridiculous

But other schools don't have problem learning a more complex playbook. However, we were told CML offense takes 3 years to learn and execute by many last year. Even though it's simple terminology. And you alluded how receivers would run the wrong routes even last year on some of Will's bad throws. So where's the problem? I think it's long but it's not like we are the only school running a more complex playbook. Many schools are and are effective.

[DesotoDog1967]

Big jump from a cocktail napkin

[BuckyIsAB****]

But other schools don't have problem learning a more complex playbook. However, we were told CML offense takes 3 years to learn and execute by many last year. Even though it's simple terminology. And you alluded how receivers would run the wrong routes even last year on some of Will's bad throws. So where's the problem? I think it's long but it's not like we are the only school running a more complex playbook. Many schools are and are effective.

The problem is everything from the top down.

To my knowledge we are one of the very few running plays that sound like a college algebra equation

[MBDawg601]

Pretty bad take here

How simple does a play call have to be? Goodness gracious. I get it may be hard to grasp at first, but after months and months of practice and study, if we can't grasp it. I do not know what to say?

[Lord McBuckethead]

The problem is everything from the top down.

To my knowledge we are one of the very few running plays that sound like a college algebra equation

No offense, but Who hear believe Joe Milton has to say more than 4 words to get his play call out?

[confucius say]

Since the qb doesn't have speakers in his helmet at the college level like they do in the nfl, how do you even signs in a play with 25 words

[confucius say]

No offense, but Who here believe Joe Milton has to say more than 4 words to get his play call out?

With heupel, not me. Maybe 6 words max

[BuckyIsAB****]

Since the qb doesn't have speakers in his helmet at the college level like they do in the nfl, how do you even signs in a play with 25 words

Its no surprise we looked like a 7th grade team

[Santiago]

A little bird got in his ear

an offense bird, or defense?
Either way, even though I like CZA , that turned me off to say something like that publicly and then blow it up instantly. Almost like he said what he had to say to get the job. At least that is how it now looks.
His BS to SEC network about time of possession last week basically turned me off on support.
Saying that last week is just BS, and how the heck is he thinking we are not aware that Coach Leach's offense had some of the best time of possession.

[HancockCountyDog]

I know most of y'all are focused on the terminology, but it is bonkers to me that we would handcuff a senior QB and not let him make needed audibles.

If that is true, its way more concerning than long winded plays.

[KB21]

I know most of y'all are focused on the terminology, but it is bonkers to me that we would handcuff a senior QB and not let him make needed audibles.

If that is true, its way more concerning than long winded plays.

I know I've seen Will check a run play and change it from going left to going right, so it appears he can change the direction of a play but can't change the play call.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I know I've seen Will check a run play and change it from going left to going right, so it appears he can change the direction of a play but can't change the play call.

You may have seen him change a protection but you have not seen him change a play

[TrapGame]

How simple does a play call have to be? Goodness gracious. I get it may be hard to grasp at first, but after months and months of practice and study, if we can't grasp it. I do not know what to say?

Remember, we were told that Will took over Barbay's office. He had his head buried in the play book.

Quite frankly at this point I do not know who or what to believe.

[basedog]

Remember, we were told that Will took over Barbay's office. He had his head buried in the play book.

Quite frankly at this point I do not know who or what to believe.

Actually I think Bucky is correct, you can't football if u have to think about what u are suppose to do. Baseball and Basketball is more individual ability, u can't play football without everybody tuned in.

[TrapGame]

Actually I think Bucky is correct, you can't football if u have to think about what u are suppose to do. Baseball and Basketball is more individual ability, u can't play football without everybody tuned in.

And especially if Will understands the terminology but some of his receivers are still confused on what a term means.

I hope we can clean this up and look better vs South Carolina. I'm not holding my breath though.

[HoopsDawg]

How simple does a play call have to be? Goodness gracious. I get it may be hard to grasp at first, but after months and months of practice and study, if we can't grasp it. I do not know what to say?

As simple as possible. It's clear none of our position groups are on the same page.

[MBDawg601]

As simple as possible. It's clear none of our position groups are on the same page.

I don't get how it so complex that our guys do not know what we are running? But so far, every defense we have faced knows exactly what we are running. Something doesn't add up.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Remember, we were told that Will took over Barbay's office. He had his head buried in the play book.

Quite frankly at this point I do not know who or what to believe.

That was Rogers. Did the OL? Did the WRs? There have been more than a few passes go to a spot on the field. And the WR was going the other direction. Are we to believe that all of the sudden the WRs and QB just all of the sudden quit playing?

There is a common denominator. The OC and his staff.

[MBDawg601]

That was Rogers. Did the OL? Did the WRs? There have been more than a few passes go to a spot on the field. And the WR was going the other direction. Are we to believe that all of the sudden the WRs and QB just all of the sudden quit playing?

There is a common denominator. The OC and his staff.

Common denominator has been Will for 3 years. The Air Raid didn't look like the Air Raid because he did not press the ball down field. Sure he has set some records for completions and yards due to YAC. Let's not act like he was some heisman candidate prior to the new OC.

[Todd4State]

Remember in the offseason when people said that Will didn't have to be Superman in this offense?

LOL.

[KB21]

Remember in the offseason when people said that Will didn't have to be Superman in this offense?

LOL.

There are a lot of people who were wrong about this offense. I?m not one of them, but there are a lot.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Common denominator has been Will for 3 years. The Air Raid didn't look like the Air Raid because he did not press the ball down field. Sure he has set some records for completions and yards due to YAC. Let's not act like he was some heisman candidate prior to the new OC.

Yeah, this thread seems like a bit of misdirection... Same check downs we've seen for the last 3 years, only this year we can't even seem to complete a screen pass.

Players have had months and countless reps to get the offense down. Topic should have been brought up prior to the season if it were an issue. Only comes out when QB1 is playing like he should be replaced.

[RockyDog]

There are a lot of people who were wrong about this offense. I?m not one of them, but there are a lot.

Don’t dislocate your shoulder with that pat on the back.

The simple fact is your boy still sucks. Doesn’t really matter what offense he is running. I’ve seen 6th grade flag footballers with bigger arms.

[Maverick91]

Don’t dislocate your shoulder with that pat on the back.

The simple fact is your boy still sucks. Doesn’t really matter what offense he is running. I’ve seen 6th grade flag footballers with bigger arms.

Lol rep

[Offshore Dawg]

Did he try to take Kyle Shanahan's play call terminology from the NFL? Here is a Kyle Shanahan play call: Y Short to Strong Right Clamp Ace, H2 Y Bingo X Comeback with Roll Right Z Shallow on Two.

A Mike Leach play call is 95 post wheel.

Hard for a Mississippi educated player to learn that.

[SPMT]

Hard for a Mississippi educated player to learn that.

No college player is learning that bullshit. They are so limited in practice and few are driven beyond their innate ability.

[KB21]

Don’t dislocate your shoulder with that pat on the back.

The simple fact is your boy still sucks. Doesn’t really matter what offense he is running. I’ve seen 6th grade flag footballers with bigger arms.

Sometimes, being right all the time is a curse.

[defiantdog]

The play calling may be difficult for the qb but everyone else in the huddle just needs to hear the formation, the play, OL protection and cadence.

[Maverick91]

Remember in the offseason when people said that Will didn't have to be Superman in this offense?

LOL.

We don’t need him to be Superman we need him to just be competent.

[Maverick91]

Hard for a Mississippi educated player to learn that.

I’m from Alabama and I can’t learn that.

[justwin]

If yall heard one of our play calls you would have to check your dictionary to figure it out. It is NFL/Woody Mcorvey on steroids.

And on top of it we dont allow our QBs who has called more plays in the SEC than any coach on our staff to check plays.

It is not going to get better without change. And that is just the offensive problems. Arnett will be back doing the defense before long

Finally, thanks for pointing out that will can?t handle it and the change is a different qb.

[Cowbell]

I'm sorry but this is BS. App state didn't have trouble with the terminology. We have a senior QB that has never had to read defenses. Mike ran what he ran regardless of the defense.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm sorry but this is BS. App state didn't have trouble with the terminology. We have a senior QB that has never had to read defenses. Mike ran what he ran regardless of the defense.

It is hard to believe that our players are to dumb to learn an offense that western Michigan and app state ran well. If that?s the case then we really are screwed because we need a whole new roster.

[justwin]

I'm sorry but this is BS. App state didn't have trouble with the terminology. We have a senior QB that has never had to read defenses. Mike ran what he ran regardless of the defense.

This reeks of a built in excuse for will before another upcoming terrible game by him. It seems like Barbay so t allow him to check out to a dump pass. What if Barbay has a downfield explosive play called and will is trying to Check to a swing pass? I?d be pissed too if I was Barbay.

[justwin]

Yeah, this thread seems like a bit of misdirection... Same check downs we've seen for the last 3 years, only this year we can't even seem to complete a screen pass.

Players have had months and countless reps to get the offense down. Topic should have been brought up prior to the season if it were an issue. Only comes out when QB1 is playing like he should be replaced.

Winner

[BuckyIsAB****]

Its hilarious that somebody would say I am just making an excuse for one player on the team but then they turn around and use it as an excuse to blame him.

If you think I care enough to come on here and make up stuff you couldnt be more wrong. It is what it is. Just because you dont like it and are blinded by your obsession of hating one kid for all of your life?s problems, doesnt mean it?s not true.

Anyone on here who knows anything will stand by it if you dont believe me. Difference is, I could care less if you do or dont

[BuckyIsAB****]

This reeks of a built in excuse for will before another upcoming terrible game by him. It seems like Barbay so t allow him to check out to a dump pass. What if Barbay has a downfield explosive play called and will is trying to Check to a swing pass? I?d be pissed too if I was Barbay.

Man

[Cowbell]

Its hilarious that somebody would say I am just making an excuse for one player on the team but then they turn around and use it as an excuse to blame him.

If you think I care enough to come on here and make up stuff you couldnt be more wrong. It is what it is. Just because you dont like it and are blinded by your obsession of hating one kid for all of your life?s problems, doesnt mean it?s not true.

Anyone on here who knows anything will stand by it if you dont believe me. Difference is, I could care less if you do or dont

Just because you don't like it and are blinded by your odsession....

[Tater]

Man

You always quote and respond to people making a meh / easy to beat take in the same thread as someone else making a valid and great point against you.

Nut up or run away. Don't half ass something. **** up full speed or don't **** up.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I'm sorry but this is BS. App state didn't have trouble with the terminology. We have a senior QB that has never had to read defenses. Mike ran what he ran regardless of the defense.

Rogers has always had to read defenses. Once the play was called by Leach it was up to Rogers to change it based on what he saw.


No matter how you look at it, our coaching is very bad!

[BlackSailsDawg]

Its hilarious that somebody would say I am just making an excuse for one player on the team but then they turn around and use it as an excuse to blame him.

If you think I care enough to come on here and make up stuff you couldnt be more wrong. It is what it is. Just because you dont like it and are blinded by your obsession of hating one kid for all of your life?s problems, doesnt mean it?s not true.

Anyone on here who knows anything will stand by it if you dont believe me. Difference is, I could care less if you do or dont

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BuckyIsAB**** again.

[hailstate88]

I?d Arnett isn?t back we don?t have a shit stain chance at anything

[BuckyIsAB****]

You always quote and respond to people making a meh / easy to beat take in the same thread as someone else making a valid and great point against you.

Nut up or run away. Don't half ass something. **** up full speed or don't **** up.

I dont see any valid or great points. Im sorry my message board habits upset you

[Todd4State]

I'm sorry but this is BS. App state didn't have trouble with the terminology. We have a senior QB that has never had to read defenses. Mike ran what he ran regardless of the defense.

Barbay had a lot more oversight at App State and they had been running a similar scheme for years.

[defiantdog]

I dont see any valid or great points. Im sorry my message board habits upset you
Receivers are missing routes, OL is missing assignments and not holding blocks, RBs can't block. It's bad all around, but the vet qb needs the ball out of his hands quicker to build confidence. The entire offense is off balance. Will needs to play more inspired football. If he doesn't put the offense on his back then no one will get better.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Receivers are missing routes, OL is missing assignments and not holding blocks, RBs can't block. It's bad all around, but the vet qb needs the ball out of his hands quicker to build confidence. The entire offense is off balance. Will needs to play more inspired football. If he doesn't put the offense on his back then no one will get better.

Then the OC needs to call faster developing plays. Stop the 12 personnel. use more wrs because that's where our talent is. Put Thomas, Creed in there more along with Mosely. Not an true freshman OT at TE.

We allowed 1 sack last year in 24 attempts. We are allowing 1 in every 10 now.

[HoopsDawg]

Barbay had a lot more oversight at App State and they had been running a similar scheme for years.

This is true. Their offense looks the same without Barbay.

[BlackSailsDawg]

This is true. Their offense looks the same without Barbay.

So he's not the master mind!

Great!

[Santiago]

Then the OC needs to call faster developing plays. Stop the 12 personnel. use more wrs because that's where our talent is. Put Thomas, Creed in there more along with Mosely. Not an true freshman OT at TE.

We allowed 1 sack last year in 24 attempts. We are allowing 1 in every 10 now.

Agree.
Dang Creed, Tulu, Thomas, Robinson, Walley, in an Air Raid with just some running plays to keep it honest. Add future more mobile QBs to run basically 6 yards on any play.

[Tater]

Yeah, this thread seems like a bit of misdirection... Same check downs we've seen for the last 3 years, only this year we can't even seem to complete a screen pass.

Players have had months and countless reps to get the offense down. Topic should have been brought up prior to the season if it were an issue. Only comes out when QB1 is playing like he should be replaced.

@ Bucky here's one you ignored. Amongst several others across other threads.

Point kinda stands, you're blinded by bias and literally refuse to see where Will has a large share of blame too.

Great players succeed in any system.

Good players make the most of bad systems.

System players can only survive in their specific system or they flounder.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Agree.
Dang Creed, Tulu, Thomas, Robinson, Walley, in an Air Raid with just some running plays to keep it honest. Add future more mobile QBs to run basically 6 yards on any play.

I mean our new ground game is fine. So let's blend the 2 and come up with something new!

[BlackSailsDawg]

@ Bucky here's one you ignored. Amongst several others across other threads.

Point kinda stands, you're blinded by bias and literally refuse to see where Will has a large share of blame too.

Great players succeed in any system.

Good players make the most of bad systems.

System players can only survive in their specific system or they flounder.

No they don't. That's so not true at most positions in football. The success of the RB depends on an OL capable of blocking. They don't do well and that RB is NOT going to succeed. A QB's success relies on several major factors. Pass protection (we went from 1 sack out of 24 Attempts to 1 in 10), WRs and TEs running the proper route, and them making a catch.

You are putting all things equal, and it's not. Now if all things were equal and the OL was blocking and the WRs understood the route, we would not be having a conversation at all. This system is broken because we hired a guy who said some right things to Arnett and not based on his ability. That's evident in his install of this offense with a vet team who is scratching their heads wonder what they are suppose to be doing.

[Maverick91]

No they don't. That's so not true at most positions in football. The success of the RB depends on an OL capable of blocking. They don't do well and that RB is NOT going to succeed. A QB's success relies on several major factors. Pass protection (we went from 1 sack out of 24 Attempts to 1 in 10), WRs and TEs running the proper route, and them making a catch.

You are putting all things equal, and it's not. Now if all things were equal and the OL was blocking and the WRs understood the route, we would not be having a conversation at all. This system is broken because we hired a guy who said some right things to Arnett and not based on his ability. That's evident in his install of this offense with a vet team who is scratching their heads wonder what they are suppose to be doing.


That’s a load of crock and you know it. It has been said by everyone who watches football and knows football that if a team is bad it is on the QB to raise the bar of the play on the field.

[BlackSailsDawg]

That’s a load of crock and you know it. It has been said by everyone who watches football and knows football that if a team is bad it is on the QB to raise the bar of the play on the field.

Yeah and they say all we need is a mobile QB that can make yards when he is flushed. I'm currently watching 2 mobile QBs for Auburn take 6 sacks so far.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah and they say all we need is a mobile QB that can make yards when he is flushed. I'm currently watching 2 mobile QBs for Auburn take 6 sacks so far.

Thorne is not really mobile, much less close to Wright in dual threat category.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Thorne is not really mobile, much less close to Wright in dual threat category.

Robby Ashford is faster than Wright and how many sacks did he take? When the OL is trash, no matter who you put back there, the results will be similar.

[Todd4State]

This is true. Their offense looks the same without Barbay.

Yep. And it was one of my huge concerns with hiring Barbay. App State's coach used to be the Co-OC there and had been involved for years there on offense across multiple coaching staffs. Barbay was under McElwain before that and I have no doubt McElwain was involved in the offense at CMU as well.

[Maverick91]

Yeah and they say all we need is a mobile QB that can make yards when he is flushed. I'm currently watching 2 mobile QBs for Auburn take 6 sacks so far.

Yeah not all players and systems are the same. But what does this have to do with my point that it is on the QB to raise the standard. You are deflecting.

[Maverick91]

Yep. And it was one of my huge concerns with hiring Barbay. App State's coach used to be the Co-OC there and had been involved for years there on offense across multiple coaching staffs. Barbay was under McElwain before that and I have no doubt McElwain was involved in the offense at CMU as well.

Thee as t is really problematic and concerning

[Really Clark?]

Robby Ashford is faster than Wright and how many sacks did he take? When the OL is trash, no matter who you put back there, the results will be similar.

I don't know about Ashford being faster than Wright. Maybe. That would be a close race. But you were acting like Thorne was in their class, he is no where close to mobile as them and he took the majority of the sacks

[BuckyIsAB****]

@ Bucky here's one you ignored. Amongst several others across other threads.

Point kinda stands, you're blinded by bias and literally refuse to see where Will has a large share of blame too.

Great players succeed in any system.

Good players make the most of bad systems.

System players can only survive in their specific system or they flounder.

No. I didnt ignore it. I specifically addressed it.

Yall are the ones that is going to have to live with the fact that a kid yall hate more than satan himself and would blame him for your car not starting is going to be the best passing QB in our history.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I have never said he doesnt deserve blame. He has sucked but the whole program has sucked. That is kinda the point I?m sorry it went over your head

[Homedawg]

I have never said he doesnt deserve blame. He has sucked but the whole program has sucked. That is kinda the point I?m sorry it went over your head

Good to see you say it. Fact is, and I've said it before, Will is our best shot to have a good year. And he gets too much heat. Now last week he deserved it. But he catches hell even when he plays well. That's how I see it.

[HancockCountyDog]

We need a win tonight.

There is not another game on our schedule that can’t be won.

[Homedawg]

We need a win tonight.

There is not another game on our schedule that can’t be won.

Maybe so. But there's only 2 what should be for sure wins as well