As of today, Our Defense is ranked 99th! Offense 95th! [Archive]

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:07 PM

And played Zero OOC games to help pad those stats. So far this year we've played 2 cupcakes and 1 SEC game.

You're probably right. We did after all put up an offensive clinic against tulsa...

60 plays
271 yds
4.52 per play

2023 off per play vs FBS teams: 4.79 per play

I know this is a crazy thought, but maybe the drastic offensive change in 2020 led to some growing pains... perhaps the same is true this season.

In leach's 3rd game, we put up 295 yards vs Kentucky and scored 2.

Commercecomet24

09-18-2023, 12:08 PM

Here's the deal. The early returns have not been good, but like it or not we're gonna have this oc and offense for at least 9 more games so why don't we just let it play. If it sucks by seasons end there'll be plenty of time to bmc, otherwise we're just rehashing the same arguments over and over until then.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:11 PM

In 2020, here's games 3 thru 6 total yardage...

Kentucky 295 (45th total D)
aTm 217 (9th total D)
Bama 200 (32nd total D)
Vandy 204 (121st total d)

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 12:11 PM

We were 104th in total offense in 2020

Once AGAIN ... no spring installs, COVID, and a true freshman backfield.

That IS NOT the case here.

AND a 10 game all SEC schedule. No pansies like we played in 1st 2 weeks this year.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:15 PM

Once AGAIN ... no spring installs, COVID, and a true freshman backfield.

That IS NOT the case here.

We scored great in game 1. Game 2 we saw the drop 8 zone. That defense was still giving us trouble last season some

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 12:15 PM

I bet Covid only affected our team that season.

Nope... but it hit us extremely hard. How many starters for UGA were out for the UGA game that we lost by 4?

But I tell you what, you keep preaching it. I'm done with that.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 12:19 PM

We scored great in game 1. Game 2 we saw the drop 8 zone. That defense was still giving us trouble last season some

The passing offense ranked 20th in the nation. Our RBs averaged 4.5 in SEC only play. LOL!

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 12:21 PM

We scored great in game 1. Game 2 we saw the drop 8 zone. That defense was still giving us trouble last season some

Last year Will never looked downfield long enough to know if it was or wasn't.

If you wanna compare this year to last fine, but comparing 2020 to any year and insinuating the Air Raid sucked is bullshitto. But folks still wanna do it cause they hated the Air Raid.

And I'm not saying fire Barbay yet. If ZA slacked up on S&C and practices as some have said, then I would blame him more.

To be 99th does suck tho given our 1st 2 opponents, even with LSU results.

ETA: And defensively there aren't any good excuses.

Goldendawg

09-18-2023, 12:21 PM

That's worse than JoMo! And we RIGHTFULLY fired him in 2 years!

We don't seem to be putting our players in the positions to make the plays thus far.*****

Leroy Jenkins

09-18-2023, 12:27 PM

I bet Covid only affected our team that season.

You could argue that not having a spring while trying to install a new system affected us more than those who were not making a philosophy change.

Todd4State

09-18-2023, 12:28 PM

In 2020, here's games 3 thru 6 total yardage...

Kentucky 295 (45th total D)
aTm 217 (9th total D)
Bama 200 (32nd total D)
Vandy 204 (121st total d)

I remember when we had all of those seniors who had been at MSU for five and six years in 2020.**

Here's another key difference- Barbay told all of us he would adapt to our personnel. And he has not. At least with Leach we knew there would be some growing pains.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 12:31 PM

I remember when we had all of those seniors who had been at MSU for five and six years in 2020.**

Here's another key difference- Barbay told all of us he would adapt to our personnel. And he has not. At least with Leach we knew there would be some growing pains.

This too! Barbay said precisely that. Leach let us know no one was staying and he was starting over, with a bunch of freshmen. And a 10 game all-SEC schedule.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:32 PM

Lane kiffin was rookie coach at OM in 2020: 3rd nationally in total offense

Sam Pittman was rookie coach at ark in 2020: 66th nationally in total offense

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 12:32 PM

We don't seem to be putting our players in the positions to make the plays thus far.*****

As another person pointed out. We were told our best 11 would be on that field. Why are we playing a true freshman OL at TE? We all know he isn't going out for a pass. Is Goede better than Creed? Thomas? Mosely?

No

So why are we not getting our best 11 on the field?

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 12:36 PM

Lane kiffin was rookie coach at OM in 2020: 3rd nationally in total offense

Sam Pittman was rookie coach at ark in 2020: 66th nationally in total offense

And how experienced was Lane's QB. And FWIW ... Lane does adapt to his personnel extremely well too. Lane does what Barbay says he does.

Doesn't really matter ... you hate Leach and the Air Raid. We got it.

KB21

09-18-2023, 12:38 PM

DownwardDawg

09-18-2023, 12:39 PM

I was never an air raid fan, but our new HC sucks.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:39 PM

And how experienced was Lane's QB. And FWIW ... Lane does adapt to his personnel extremely well too. Lane does what Barbay says he does.

Doesn't really matter ... you hate Leach and the Air Raid. We got it.

This is just for blacksails to show his hypocrisy. He was more than willing to be patient in 2020, but now a drastic change should go off without a hitch. I did dislike our offense the past 3 seasons, but I completely jumped the gun in 2020 bc the offense proved capable with time. I like to consider myself willing to learn from past mistakes, so I'm being more patient

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:40 PM

There's a lot of Leach hate in the fanbase out there.

And there's hate of anything that's not air raid too. Yes, that's directed at you

Coach34

09-18-2023, 12:42 PM

Is Goede better than Creed?

At blocking? 100% he is

the_real_MSU_is_us

09-18-2023, 12:43 PM

Coach34

09-18-2023, 12:43 PM

There's a lot of Leach hate in the fanbase out there.

I dont think anybody hated Leach. It was The Airbone they hated

KB21

09-18-2023, 12:43 PM

And there's hate of anything that's not air raid too. Yes, that's directed at you

I don't really care if it is or not. I don't hate other schemes that aren't the Air Raid. The Air Raid is simply the best scheme in college. What I hate are meathead coaches who come in thinking that you just absolutely have to run the ball to have success.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 12:45 PM

This is just for blacksails to show his hypocrisy. He was more than willing to be patient in 2020, but now a drastic change should go off without a hitch. I did dislike our offense the past 3 seasons, but I completely jumped the gun in 2020 bc the offense proved capable with time. I like to consider myself willing to learn from past mistakes, so I'm being more patient

I'll buy that. I have noticed the kinder, gentler, no meltdown 7.

I don't think we fire anyone but ZA needs to make sure he's keeping the culture intact. And if we do fire anyone I would start with Friend. He sucks and has always sucked. ZA made a mistake firing Mason or letting him go or whatever. Maybe he had no choice tho ... dunno.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 12:48 PM

7, can we hire Lane to be our OC/HC? Can we hire Briles (Pittmans OC) to be our OC? We actually tried and failed on that front.

Fact is, year 3 of the air raid was better than this shot show, and since everyone was returning year 4 in that system would have been better than year 3.

Whatever you want to say about that system, there is ZERO doubt we'd be a better team this season if we had stayed with is vs hiring Barbay. Now you can speculate that some none non Barbay non air raid O would be better than year 4 air raid, but that's speculation. What we KNOW is that for 2023 we'd have been better off keeping the AR than doing what we did.

If the defense truly is this bad, this was the perfect year to transition to what arnett obviously prefers.

If the last 2 weeks are truly indicative of our defense, we really, really underestimated how important wheat, Forbes, and our safeties were. Maybe arnett saw this coming so he made the switch on O

Goldendawg

09-18-2023, 12:48 PM

As another person pointed out. We were told our best 11 would be on that field. Why are we playing a true freshman OL at TE? We all know he isn't going out for a pass. Is Goede better than Creed? Thomas? Mosely?

No

So why are we not getting our best 11 on the field?

Goede was buried on the GA depth chart and has yet to catch a pass there or at State. In fact our only TE to catch a pass to date is Harman who is really a WR. Playing outside WR is a very lonely position as you are very seldom targeted and we can't get the ball to them if we try.No opponent respects or fears us having TE's in the passing game, yet Barbay hangs his hat on having a TE/H in his "offense". We are not putting our best players on the field in many positions I am afraid or our talent is much worse than I thought along with a heavily "rookie" coaching staff who has repeatedly said they have had the team unprepared in 2 of the 3 games played. Having flashbacks of JoMo, Croom, Woody, Sermon. This is Tech and 10 scary to date.

the_real_MSU_is_us

09-18-2023, 12:49 PM

At blocking? 100% he is

You know what he's saying. "Is our offense better off in 10 personnel or 11?" And he's using those 2 names to make the point.

Creed would "block" by taking a man out of the box. He might even be good at blocking CBS we haven't seen enough to know. All we do know with Goede is that he can't catch a pass and can't block as good as a 3rd OT would. If no TE is ever going to get a target they are glorified skinny OTs that are way worse blockers than a skinny OT.

I'm not opposed to having TEs. I'm opposed to playing worthless ones. Play the RB and WR talent we have. Pitman can be a lead blocker in 2 RB sets, split him to the flatly to draw a LB out of the box I don't care. But a true Fr TE that won't catch the ball isn't the answer

KB21

09-18-2023, 12:52 PM

You know what he's saying. "Is our offense better off in 10 personnel or 11?" And he's using those 2 names to make the point.

Creed would "block" by taking a man out of the box. He might even be good at blocking CBS we haven't seen enough to know. All we do know with Goede is that he can't catch a pass and can't block as good as a 3rd OT would. If no TE is ever going to get a target they are glorified skinny OTs that are way worse blockers than a skinny OT.

I'm not opposed to having TEs. I'm opposed to playing worthless ones. Play the RB and WR talent we have. Pitman can be a lead blocker in 2 RB sets, split him to the flatly to draw a LB out of the box I don't care. But a true Fr TE that won't catch the ball isn't the answer

Leach also wasn't opposed to playing TEs. Leach's stance was that if you could find one, it's fun, but you shouldn't be playing your third team offensive lineman just to have one on the field. Well, that's what we are doing. We are playing a guy who should be redshirting as an OT at TE because we just have to have one on the field.

the_real_MSU_is_us

09-18-2023, 12:54 PM

If the defense truly is this bad, this was the perfect year to transition to what arnett obviously prefers.

If the last 2 weeks are truly indicative of our defense, we really, really underestimated how important wheat, Forbes, and our safeties were. Maybe arnett saw this coming so he made the switch on O

I will agree that if your D is going to be >90th you may as well transition the O. But I disagree about Wheat/Forbes and Arnett seeing anything coming... the D is terribly coached. Missing assignments, bad game plans, no in game adjustments, awful ply calls for the down and distance. If Arnett couldn't see Brock wasn't ready to be DC I'm not sure he saw anything else either. Wheat and Forbes were big losses but they weren't THIS big. This is coaching.

the_real_MSU_is_us

09-18-2023, 01:02 PM

Leach also wasn't opposed to playing TEs. Leach's stance was that if you could find one, it's fun, but you shouldn't be playing your third team offensive lineman just to have one on the field. Well, that's what we are doing. We are playing a guy who should be redshirting as an OT at TE because we just have to have one on the field.

Exactly! If you're going to play a TE he should be a chess piece to counter weaknesses in the D- he can be an extra blocker or a receiver. But I don't think our TEs have a single target this season, so that just leaves blocking... and as you say, there ain't no way a true Fr is a better blocker than our backup OT, so we aren't really excelling at blocking either.

Like we should be using 20 personnel. Run play? Use 1 RB as the lead blocker for the other. Pass play? Keep one in to help block, roll the other to the flat as the check down. The think about a TE to block is that our whole OL sucks, so often the pressure comes from somewhere the TE isn't. An RB is more able to see the leak and plug the hole.

Just a complete failure to accept the talent he has. Barbay is truly so arrogant as to think his offense with a true Fr te that can't catch is better than any 4 WR or 2 RB offense he could run instead. Just like Moorhead making Fitz throw it 30 times

KB21

09-18-2023, 01:05 PM

Exactly! If you're going to play a TE he should be a chess piece to counter weaknesses in the D- he can be an extra blocker or a receiver. But I don't think our TEs have a single target this season, so that just leaves blocking... and as you say, there ain't no way a true Fr is a better blocker than our backup OT, so we aren't really excelling at blocking either.

Like we should be using 20 personnel. Run play? Use 1 RB as the lead blocker for the other. Pass play? Keep one in to help block, roll the other to the flat as the check down. The think about a TE to block is that our whole OL sucks, so often the pressure comes from somewhere the TE isn't. An RB is more able to see the leak and plug the hole.

Just a complete failure to accept the talent he has. Barbay is truly so arrogant as to think his offense with a true Fr te that can't catch is better than any 4 WR or 2 RB offense he could run instead. Just like Moorhead making Fitz throw it 30 times

Yes. That would be getting our best players on the field. Our WRs and RBs are simply BETTER than our TEs, and that would have been the case even if Spivey could play.

The problem is, this offensive coordinator wants to run a Spreadahan system with the wide zone, and he cannot figure out a way to run it without a TE on the field.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:07 PM

Lane kiffin was rookie coach at OM in 2020: 3rd nationally in total offense

Sam Pittman was rookie coach at ark in 2020: 66th nationally in total offense

And Ole Miss hired within it's offensive philosophy. They did not change much. And Leach was ranked 20th on the offense he ran. Our backs did not carry alot but averaged 4.5 per carry. For comparison, Ole miss Rbs were 5.1 and 4.5. Very much in line with them. In fact, the Starting RB for Ole Miss dropped from 6.9 to 5.1

And what's really cute is that Ole Miss did not hire in a HC that was changing it all up. He had a Vet team. See how that works? Don't totally change the offense. Yet here WE are.....

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:13 PM

This is just for blacksails to show his hypocrisy. He was more than willing to be patient in 2020, but now a drastic change should go off without a hitch. I did dislike our offense the past 3 seasons, but I completely jumped the gun in 2020 bc the offense proved capable with time. I like to consider myself willing to learn from past mistakes, so I'm being more patient

Actually, you are doing nothing more than proving my points.

- Lane vs Barbay. That's your comparison. One was carrying on the same style, the other trying to change it all up.

- YEP! Leach took the 109th passing offense to a top 20 WITHOUT a spring to put in his offense with a True Freshman heavy team! That's called improvement in the face of adversity.

It was a stupid move to change direction with a SR team. We could have had a modified AR with more rushing.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:17 PM

KB21

09-18-2023, 01:21 PM

Actually, you are doing nothing more than proving my points.

- Lane vs Barbay. That's your comparison. One was carrying on the same style, the other trying to change it all up.

- YEP! Leach took the 109th passing offense to a top 20 WITHOUT a spring to put in his offense with a True Freshman heavy team! That's called improvement in the face of adversity.

It was a stupid move to change direction with a SR team. We could have had a modified AR with more rushing.

Cole Cubelic said it after Zach got the job. Go get Chris Hatcher to run the offense. Experienced head coach. He knows the Leach Air Raid and had personally expanded the run game part of the version he runs.

If not that, then go get Ben Arbuckle. That is something they could have done.

sandjunky

09-18-2023, 01:21 PM

So for comparison sake
Crxxm
2004 TO: 118 TD: 62
2008 TO: 115 TD: 60

Mullen
2009 TO: 73 TD; 71
2017 TO: 41 TD: 27

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:22 PM

Cole Cubelic said it after Zach got the job. Go get Chris Hatcher to run the offense. Experienced head coach. He knows the Leach Air Raid and had personally expanded the run game part of the version he runs.

If not that, then go get Ben Arbuckle. That is something they could have done.

Yep. Even if you keep Hollingshead. He runs it more. But at least he would have known the Roster.

Coach34

09-18-2023, 01:36 PM

And Leach was ranked 20th on the offense he ran. .

We were 43rd in Scoring last year- with the Pick 6's, KO's and Punt returns included

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:48 PM

We were 43rd in Scoring last year- with the Pick 6's, KO's and Punt returns included

Don't move the goal posts by changing year and what stat you want to interject. His point had nothing to do with scoring offense. We won 9 games with that stat btw.

confucius say

09-18-2023, 01:48 PM

I bet Covid only affected our team that season.

Well it's certainly affected us in 2023. By giving us a team full of 23 year olds, yet we're garbage right now.
2020 had a bunch of freshman playing an all sec schedule.

THE Bruce Dickinson

09-18-2023, 01:49 PM

You're probably right. We did after all put up an offensive clinic against tulsa...

60 plays
271 yds
4.52 per play

2023 off per play vs FBS teams: 4.79 per play

I know this is a crazy thought, but maybe the drastic offensive change in 2020 led to some growing pains... perhaps the same is true this season.

In leach's 3rd game, we put up 295 yards vs Kentucky and scored 2.

We were trying to put in a completely new offense, while not being allowed to have spring training, and the coaches having extremely limited interactions with the team. We basically had about 20 practices and some ZOOM film sessions before playing games.

This has to be an act at this point

msstate7

09-18-2023, 01:50 PM

Well it's certainly affected us in 2023. By giving us a team full of 23 year olds, yet we're garbage right now.
2020 had a bunch of freshman playing an all sec schedule.

I would prefer a little less experience and have a lock down cb like Forbes. Give me talent over experience any day

msstate7

09-18-2023, 01:51 PM

We were trying to put in a completely new offense, while not being allowed to have spring training, and the coaches having extremely limited interactions with the team. We basically had about 20 practices and some ZOOM film sessions before playing games.

This has to be an act at this point

Lane finished #3 nationally in total offense as a rookie coach also

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 01:52 PM

We were 43rd in Scoring last year- with the Pick 6's, KO's and Punt returns included

Pretty sure none of those are included in scoring "offense" stats. At least pick 6s wouldn't be.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 01:52 PM

Lane finished #3 nationally in total offense as a rookie coach also

Nope! He was not changing the offense and had an NFL caliber SR wr and an experience QB and RB.

The 2 are nothing alike. at all.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 01:57 PM

Nope! He was not changing the offense and had an NFL caliber SR wr and an experience QB and RB.

The 2 are nothing alike. at all.

Costello was 2nd in the pac 12 passing in 2018

Hill was 3rd in sec in rushing in 2019

confucius say

09-18-2023, 01:58 PM

We were 43rd in Scoring last year- with the Pick 6's, KO's and Punt returns included

With a juco talent level QB, No NFL WR, and no NFL OL. He should have won coach of the year honestly.

I appreciate all will has done, but his physical talent level is the worst in the league easily and our OL is G5 level.

confucius say

09-18-2023, 02:01 PM

I would prefer a little less experience and have a lock down cb like Forbes. Give me talent over experience any day

Well of course. We all would. But the discussion was about offense. The same guys here now were here in 2020 as freshmen. And leach did more with them.

The air raid is literally the only offense will can be halfway efficient at, at this level. What leach got out of this personnel, especially Will, was a minor miracle.

ETA: I'm not an even an air raid homer. I don't care what we run. I like alot of what KB runs. But not with this personnel.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:05 PM

Costello was 2nd in the pac 12 passing in 2018

Hill was 3rd in sec in rushing in 2019

I'll give you Costello but even he said the SEC was a different animal. Which is part ofnthe reason Will is struggling too. Gotta be TOUGH. Fitz/Dak like tough.

Hill was a primadonna/cancer. Hurt more than he helped and never blocked a LB in his life.
And he was 6th conference only and 18th in avg yds/att vs conference only. He gained most of his yds against KSU and non conference goes.

confucius say

09-18-2023, 02:05 PM

Costello was 2nd in the pac 12 passing in 2018

Hill was 3rd in sec in rushing in 2019

Please clarify your overarching point in this thread. I think I may agree with the heart of it, but not certain.

Really Clark?

09-18-2023, 02:05 PM

I'll buy that. I have noticed the kinder, gentler, no meltdown 7.

I don't think we fire anyone but ZA needs to make sure he's keeping the culture intact. And if we do fire anyone I would start with Friend. He sucks and has always sucked. ZA made a mistake firing Mason or letting him go or whatever. Maybe he had no choice tho ... dunno.

If you are not staying with the air raid, then you don't keep Mason. Whether if it's Friend or someone else that's irrelevant, once you went away from air raid, you had to change your OL coach

msstate7

09-18-2023, 02:06 PM

Well of course. We all would. But the discussion was about offense. The same guys here now were here in 2020 as freshmen. And leach did more with them.

The air raid is literally the only offense will can be halfway efficient at, at this level. What leach got out of this personnel, especially Will, was a minor miracle.

That seems to be a compliment and a harsh rebuke in the same paragraph.

I said in the game thread Saturday after 1 drive that this is the biggest talent deficit with lsu in a decade. I stand by that. We looked like we were in slow motion vs them. The good news is that lsu is one of the most talented teams in the sec, so I expect us to look better going forward... I'm assuming reps help with execution; talent is what it is

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:10 PM

If you are not staying with the air raid, then you don't keep Mason. Whether if it's Friend or someone else that's irrelevant, once you went away from air raid, you had to change your OL coach

Not gonna debate about it but Mason was a good Oline coach. I figure he could make the adjustment. Good coaches are usually good coaches. Leach was a lawyer and then started as Oline coach. He evolved.

confucius say

09-18-2023, 02:11 PM

That seems to be a compliment and a harsh rebuke in the same paragraph.

I said in the game thread Saturday after 1 drive that this is the biggest talent deficit with lsu in a decade. I stand by that. We looked like we were in slow motion vs them. The good news is that lsu is one of the most talented teams in the sec, so I expect us to look better going forward... I'm assuming reps help with execution; talent is what it is

I agree with you that we have major talent deficiencies on offense, mainly at OL and QB. In fact, I've been sounding the alarm about our OL all off-season and was told they are old and ran blocked in HS so they'd be fine and I didn't know what I was talking about.

As for will, we've all known for 3 years he can't move and has a weak arm. His strengths are getting the ball out fast and accuracy, neither of which this offense compliments. Just a cluster.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 02:11 PM

Please clarify your overarching point in this thread. I think I may agree with the heart of it, but not certain.

If you want my cliff note, it's this... drastic changes are drastic, and they take time. It doesn't really matter what guys you had the previous season if they were doing something totally different.

Blacksails using OM not changing much with lane as an excuse for why it took longer for leach while at the same time not seeing the change for barbay is his hypocrisy.

I'm far from sold on our offense, but I do see it's a major change. I'm gonna reserve judgement this time.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:14 PM

That seems to be a compliment and a harsh rebuke in the same paragraph.

I said in the game thread Saturday after 1 drive that this is the biggest talent deficit with lsu in a decade. I stand by that. We looked like we were in slow motion vs them. The good news is that lsu is one of the most talented teams in the sec, so I expect us to look better going forward... I'm assuming reps help with execution; talent is what it is

Not saying we have their talent but confusion makes you play slow. And then there is the question of maybe slacking off on the culture some. I know the players don't know what to do tho so yea ... they're playing slow.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 02:15 PM

Costello was 2nd in the pac 12 passing in 2018

Hill was 3rd in sec in rushing in 2019

Hill was dismissed for conduct. Costello was injured and out and never had played in the AR.

You are trying hard... but totally failing to make a legit argument.

Really Clark?

09-18-2023, 02:15 PM

Pretty sure none of those are included in scoring "offense" stats. At least pick 6s wouldn't be.

Yes, they are all included in the college game.

Captain Falcon

09-18-2023, 02:17 PM

You guys are missing the biggest difference in Leach 2020 and Arnett 2023

Leach was a proven winner, so everyone figured that it may take a minute but he would eventually succeed. Which is largely true. The Leach era was not perfect but it was definitely a net positive for our program.

Arnett has proven nothing as a HC and looks totally lost and in over his head right now. Maybe it will get better but we have no proof that it will. So people are extremely worried.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:17 PM

I agree with you that we have major talent deficiencies on offense, mainly at OL and QB. In fact, I've been sounding the alarm about our OL all off-season and was told they are old and ran blocked in HS so they'd be fine and I didn't know what I was talking about.

As for will, we've all known for 3 years he can't move and has a weak arm. His strengths are getting the ball out fast and accuracy, neither of which this offense compliments. Just a cluster.

I don't think there's a talent deficiency at Oline. Dolla Bill and Percy both 4* players. And I think we may have one more in there.

They ain't Charles Cross but they better than we usually get for Oline.

msstate7

09-18-2023, 02:18 PM

Hill was dismissed for conduct. Costello was injured and out and never had played in the AR.

You are trying hard... but totally failing to make a legit argument.

How many of our current players have played in a barbay offense?

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:19 PM

Commercecomet24

09-18-2023, 02:19 PM

Pretty sure none of those are included in scoring "offense" stats. At least pick 6s wouldn't be.

Every single point in college is included in points scored for the offense. Doesn't make sense but that's the way it is.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:20 PM

Yes, they are all included in the college game.

Ok ... I'll take your word for it. Surprised by pic 6s tho.

BlackSailsDawg

09-18-2023, 02:22 PM

How many of our current players have played in a barbay offense?

Which is the damn point. We should have never switched at this time. Do what others did... modify but stay with in the system known for the 20 starting SRs.

Really Clark?

09-18-2023, 02:24 PM

Ok ... I'll take your word for it. Surprised by pic 6s tho.

It's a quirky stat that way. Like how sacks are counted as rushes and the negative yards go against the rushing totals in college. It shouldn't be counted as a rush attempt and they negative yards shouldn't go against your total rush yards.

Really Clark?

09-18-2023, 02:30 PM

Which is the damn point. We should have never switched at this time. Do what others did... modify but stay with in the system known for the 20 starting SRs.

If that's your logic, then we never should have switched to the air raid in 2020. And we shouldn't have switched from the zone read run QB spread in 2018. I didn't have a problem switching to the air raid btw, but you are stretching logic pretty bad in this instance to make a point.

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:32 PM

It's a quirky stat that way. Like how sacks are counted as rushes and the negative yards go against the rushing totals in college. It shouldn't be counted as a rush attempt and they negative yards shouldn't go against your total rush yards.

Ok ... as you say it don't make sense but now I know.

C34 was actually right this time. Doesn't happen often****

Coach34

09-18-2023, 02:35 PM

Pretty sure none of those are included in scoring "offense" stats. At least pick 6s wouldn't be.

Well you would be wrong

Coach34

09-18-2023, 02:36 PM

Don't move the goal posts by changing year and what stat you want to interject. His point had nothing to do with scoring offense. We won 9 games with that stat btw.

Nobody is moving the goalposts. Scoring is what matters. Yards dont factor into the final score

dawgday166

09-18-2023, 02:37 PM

Well you would be wrong

LOL ... and I admitted it too.

trojandawg

09-18-2023, 02:40 PM

What we get for hiring a coach with experience of just a few years as a coordinator. Under a very experienced Coach that knew what he was doing

confucius say

09-18-2023, 05:01 PM

If that's your logic, then we never should have switched to the air raid in 2020. And we shouldn't have switched from the zone read run QB spread in 2018. I didn't have a problem switching to the air raid btw, but you are stretching logic pretty bad in this instance to make a point.

One could argue the huge difference is leach knew he had time to clean house, start from ground zero, and build. If I'm arnett, I'm thinking I can't go 4-8 and keep this job. I have to be at least average to good now, so I better go with an offense that gives me a shot at that.

EdwardDrayton

09-18-2023, 05:06 PM

We were 104th in total offense in 2020

Just like the Jeffersons, we're moving on up!!

gtowndawg

09-18-2023, 06:37 PM

We hired a dud guys, plain and simple. We screwed up. Just need to correct it at year's end.

KB21

09-18-2023, 06:41 PM

Get ready. If Arnett is given a reprieve and is allowed to make changes, good chance that Ryan Lindley is the next OC and possibly Kurt Mattix as DC.

Offshore Dawg

09-18-2023, 06:44 PM

Get ready. If Arnett is given a reprieve and is allowed to make changes, good chance that Ryan Lindley is the next OC and possibly Kurt Mattix as DC.

Kb, fact or fiction??

KB21

09-18-2023, 06:52 PM

Prediction

R2Dawg

09-18-2023, 07:17 PM

You and covid! LOL! we took 46 players to UGA. For most of that season we had less than 50. But keep preaching man! Keep preaching.

Yeah and we had to play in the rain. Everyone else played with Covid too.

Keep up your narrative all you want. We sucked on O those years and played 500 ball. Got nothing to do with today so quit trying to spike the football on the Dawgs.

R2Dawg

09-18-2023, 07:21 PM

Which is the damn point. We should have never switched at this time. Do what others did... modify but stay with in the system known for the 20 starting SRs.

Well then Leach should have run the zone read until his air raid players got in too with that logic. Like I said before, Hiring Leach meant two bad years for MSU football - one in and one out. That fact is playing out.