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War Machine Dawg
09-10-2023, 08:09 PM
Hey peeps, been a minute. Kinda lost the fire for some of this as I've aged and mellowed a bit, but hoping to be a little more active again and reengage with some discussions. As such, a few observations from the game Saturday.

Offense:

1. Will limits what we can do. Great kid, fantastic ambassador for the university and the program. But his lack of arm strength and mobility are a major problem. He peaked as a sophomore and has regressed a bit since then. His inability to really push the ball downfield and stretch the D vertically is a killer for this offense. He's a weak armed system QB that got his numbers from pure volume. I understand no coach is going to replace a Top 10 SEC passing yards QB, but we should've fought hard to keep Sawyer in the fold or at least find a better number two QB than Wright.

2. Barbay is trying to manage what he can do around Will's limitations. That said, last night's game plan was atrocious. You gotta let Will throw it more than 17 times. Wright needs more than 7 snaps and 1 carry. Like I saw C34 say in his post, that is just way too run heavy for even the most ardent #RTDF people like us. Personally, I want an offense that's no more than 60/40 run/pass. But I'd ideally like us to be 55/45 or less, depending on what's working that night. If they can't stop us passing, let Will throw. If they can't stop us running, then #RTDF. Take what the D gives.

3. Woody is a beast, just hope we don't overload him. We all know he's fragile. Pittman and Davis look good, though, so I'm not overly worried if Woody can't go for a game. Price looked good last year and hasn't gotten much of a chance this year, so I don't discount him as an option.

4. Our OL needs work. 66 is killing us. On the same drive he had a false start, then threw a lookout block in the redzone that got Will sacked. Replace him for LSU. They run block like beasts, but they seem to have forgotten how to pass block. Don't know how that happens in one offseason. Whatever it is, they need to figure it out and get it together on pass pro.

5. Tulu and the WRs need more touches. Criminal that Creed wasn't more involved last night. And I bet Walley wonders why he came here and never transferred. Another player who's way underutilized. Think we eased Zavion back in last night. Hopefully he gets more touches going forward too.

6. If we want to run so much of the read option stuff, then we need to start Wright. If he's just as accurate as Relf, which is admittedly quite a low bar, he's a better fit for what we apparently want to do. Defenses are completely ignoring Will on the "read" because they know he's never going to pull it, and even if he did, he can't make a play pulling it.

7. Thought our play call on the third TD was excellent. Will had two guy open for the TD and picked the one going for the corner.

8. This offense can work, but we gotta decide what we want to be and tailor it to the QB. A choice must be made or we must be very committed to using Wright's packages much more often. Pistol and play action with Will or read option with Wright. There's no in between way if we want to improve and win.

Defense:
1. Overall, a decent game. We owned De Laura, but let him make too many big plays.

2. DL doesn't generate enough pass rush on their own. Going to be a problem in SEC play, but hopefully we can scheme around it in the short term. Long term, gotta go find those beast mode DL we used to get. I trust Turner to get the DL sorted though.

3. Defensive game plan wasn't great. Think they had about 500 yards on the bubble screen and swing pass. The fact we never adjusted to stop it was extremely concerning for me. Don't know if Brock is ready to be a DC. Might need to reevaluate that in the offseason, but that's a long way off.

4. Don't know why we didn't try to play any bump or press coverage on their WRs. Are our DBs so slow we're afraid to be aggressive at the line? We can't let SEC WRs get free releases like that all year. If Zona's WRs hurt us that badly, imagine what'll happen when it's big time SEC WRs.

5. Our LBs are fantastic, easily the strength of our D.

6. D plays hard, but they need some support from the offense. Points on the board is the best D. Need to recruit some depth long term so we don't get so gassed at the end of games.

7. Too many big plays, especially at the end. Much of it had to do with the soft coverage and lack of pass rush from the DL I mentioned in 2 and 4. Don't really now what the solution is, but it's going to be a problem.

8. Kinda unforgivable that with the big plays we gave up, we still weren't shutting down the screens and swings. Still frustrated by that.

Special Teams/Coaching:

1. Return teams were fine. Tulu is a threat whenever he touches it. Don't know why we don't let him return punts too.

2. Ferrie missed a FG. It happens. College kicker. Hopefully he'll be fine.

3. Punting and coverage was solid.

4. Addressed Barbay and Brock, so I'll skip them there.

5. Arnett has to learn how to manage games. Take the points, especially at home. Yeah, it sucks to stall out so close to the endzone. But points on the board, especially early and at home, matters. Instead of being up just 14 at the half, we should've been up at least 20-0. He's HC now, so he needs to start acting like it. You can't be overly concerned with the D. I think he'll be fine, but the growing pains are going to suck for a couple of years.

Well, guess I had a lot more to say than I thought. Intended for this to be a relatively short and sweet post. That's how I saw it. Feel free to criticize. Already know I'm going to take heat for daring to say Will limits the offense, but facts don't care about your feelings.

Until next time. Hail State!

WMD

lastmajordog
09-10-2023, 08:23 PM
outstanding post WMD !!

Patrick Tibbons
09-10-2023, 08:38 PM
I don?t disagree with you about Will, but Sawyer was 12/28 for 218 with 2 ints. this past Saturday. Don?t think he would?ve been this answer this year either.

BigDawg81
09-10-2023, 08:52 PM
I don?t disagree with you about Will, but Sawyer was 12/28 for 218 with 2 ints. this past Saturday. Don?t think he would?ve been this answer this year either.
You could watch the Baylor game and know why Sawyer was 3rd string

BigDawg81
09-10-2023, 08:57 PM
Hey peeps, been a minute. Kinda lost the fire for some of this as I've aged and mellowed a bit, but hoping to be a little more active again and reengage with some discussions. As such, a few observations from the game Saturday.

Offense:

1. Will limits what we can do. Great kid, fantastic ambassador for the university and the program. But his lack of arm strength and mobility are a major problem. He peaked as a sophomore and has regressed a bit since then. His inability to really push the ball downfield and stretch the D vertically is a killer for this offense. He's a weak armed system QB that got his numbers from pure volume. I understand no coach is going to replace a Top 10 SEC passing yards QB, but we should've fought hard to keep Sawyer in the fold or at least find a better number two QB than Wright.

2. Barbay is trying to manage what he can do around Will's limitations. That said, last night's game plan was atrocious. You gotta let Will throw it more than 17 times. Wright needs more than 7 snaps and 1 carry. Like I saw C34 say in his post, that is just way too run heavy for even the most ardent #RTDF people like us. Personally, I want an offense that's no more than 60/40 run/pass. But I'd ideally like us to be 55/45 or less, depending on what's working that night. If they can't stop us passing, let Will throw. If they can't stop us running, then #RTDF. Take what the D gives.

3. Woody is a beast, just hope we don't overload him. We all know he's fragile. Pittman and Davis look good, though, so I'm not overly worried if Woody can't go for a game. Price looked good last year and hasn't gotten much of a chance this year, so I don't discount him as an option.

4. Our OL needs work. 66 is killing us. On the same drive he had a false start, then threw a lookout block in the redzone that got Will sacked. Replace him for LSU. They run block like beasts, but they seem to have forgotten how to pass block. Don't know how that happens in one offseason. Whatever it is, they need to figure it out and get it together on pass pro.

5. Tulu and the WRs need more touches. Criminal that Creed wasn't more involved last night. And I bet Walley wonders why he came here and never transferred. Another player who's way underutilized. Think we eased Zavion back in last night. Hopefully he gets more touches going forward too.

6. If we want to run so much of the read option stuff, then we need to start Wright. If he's just as accurate as Relf, which is admittedly quite a low bar, he's a better fit for what we apparently want to do. Defenses are completely ignoring Will on the "read" because they know he's never going to pull it, and even if he did, he can't make a play pulling it.

7. Thought our play call on the third TD was excellent. Will had two guy open for the TD and picked the one going for the corner.

8. This offense can work, but we gotta decide what we want to be and tailor it to the QB. A choice must be made or we must be very committed to using Wright's packages much more often. Pistol and play action with Will or read option with Wright. There's no in between way if we want to improve and win.

Defense:
1. Overall, a decent game. We owned De Laura, but let him make too many big plays.

2. DL doesn't generate enough pass rush on their own. Going to be a problem in SEC play, but hopefully we can scheme around it in the short term. Long term, gotta go find those beast mode DL we used to get. I trust Turner to get the DL sorted though.

3. Defensive game plan wasn't great. Think they had about 500 yards on the bubble screen and swing pass. The fact we never adjusted to stop it was extremely concerning for me. Don't know if Brock is ready to be a DC. Might need to reevaluate that in the offseason, but that's a long way off.

4. Don't know why we didn't try to play any bump or press coverage on their WRs. Are our DBs so slow we're afraid to be aggressive at the line? We can't let SEC WRs get free releases like that all year. If Zona's WRs hurt us that badly, imagine what'll happen when it's big time SEC WRs.

5. Our LBs are fantastic, easily the strength of our D.

6. D plays hard, but they need some support from the offense. Points on the board is the best D. Need to recruit some depth long term so we don't get so gassed at the end of games.

7. Too many big plays, especially at the end. Much of it had to do with the soft coverage and lack of pass rush from the DL I mentioned in 2 and 4. Don't really now what the solution is, but it's going to be a problem.

8. Kinda unforgivable that with the big plays we gave up, we still weren't shutting down the screens and swings. Still frustrated by that.

Special Teams/Coaching:

1. Return teams were fine. Tulu is a threat whenever he touches it. Don't know why we don't let him return punts too.

2. Ferrie missed a FG. It happens. College kicker. Hopefully he'll be fine.

3. Punting and coverage was solid.

4. Addressed Barbay and Brock, so I'll skip them there.

5. Arnett has to learn how to manage games. Take the points, especially at home. Yeah, it sucks to stall out so close to the endzone. But points on the board, especially early and at home, matters. Instead of being up just 14 at the half, we should've been up at least 20-0. He's HC now, so he needs to start acting like it. You can't be overly concerned with the D. I think he'll be fine, but the growing pains are going to suck for a couple of years.

Well, guess I had a lot more to say than I thought. Intended for this to be a relatively short and sweet post. That's how I saw it. Feel free to criticize. Already know I'm going to take heat for daring to say Will limits the offense, but facts don't care about your feelings.

Until next time. Hail State!

WMD
Will just isn?t going to threaten any team with the deep ball. Saying that, Will is an accurate QB but only up to so far. Barbay needs to give Will his attempts

parabrave
09-10-2023, 08:58 PM
DAm good read WMD

CaptainObvious
09-10-2023, 09:00 PM
I don?t disagree with you about Will, but Sawyer was 12/28 for 218 with 2 ints. this past Saturday. Don?t think he would?ve been this answer this year either.

In fact, Wright?s running ability is the only reason State is running this quasi 2 QB system. Were he not here and Sawyer was, Sawyer would be the third QB signaling the plays with a headset on. The oline execution last night was abysmal. I believe the intent was to be so successful running the ball that it would give LSU a new thing about. Arizona watched film. they weren?t gonna let Wright run wild. Wright Read that and handed it off. Again, Oline and QB/RB weren?t in sync in those reads.

RisperDawg
09-10-2023, 09:59 PM
Great write up. Very well organized and an easy read. One thing I'll say to your defensive point 4:

I listened to several podcasts in the lead up to AZ, including their podcast (the WildCast, lol). Those receivers (Cowling and T Mac) are apparently regarded as potential NFL guys, so maybe the trouble they gave us isn't quite as bad as it seems.

parabrave
09-10-2023, 10:06 PM
Great write up. Very well organized and an easy read. One thing I'll say to your defensive point 4:

I listened to several podcasts in the lead up to AZ, including their podcast (the WildCast, lol). Those receivers (Cowling and T Mac) are apparently regarded as potential NFL guys, so maybe the trouble they gave us isn't quite as bad as it seems.

They also upgraded their DLine.

War Machine Dawg
09-10-2023, 10:08 PM
Great write up. Very well organized and an easy read. One thing I'll say to your defensive point 4:

I listened to several podcasts in the lead up to AZ, including their podcast (the WildCast, lol). Those receivers (Cowling and T Mac) are apparently regarded as potential NFL guys, so maybe the trouble they gave us isn't quite as bad as it seems.

We'll see. Still concerning we never even tried to challenge them. If you do it a couple of times and they murder you, it's not like we couldn't go back to the soft coverage. At least then you'd know. But not even trying it is what concerned me. Just seemed like such an obvious way to deal with the bubble screen and swing passes they killed us with.

BlackSailsDawg
09-11-2023, 12:49 AM
Again. The over hyped Rogers can not throw the deep ball is proven wrong by PFF.

2022: 6 TDs and 1 INT in the 20 plus yards in air. In the 10-19 yards ball in air... 13 TDs with 3 INTs

vs

2022: 9 TDs in the 20 Plus yards in air with 2 ints. In the 10-19 yards ball in air 15 TDs and 3 Ints.


The proof is there to see. It just people crave for the back up when the issue is the OC play calling.

Homedawg
09-11-2023, 10:28 AM
Lost me at should have fought to keep sawyer. Who was terrible sat.

Commercecomet24
09-11-2023, 10:55 AM
Lost me at should have fought to keep sawyer. Who was terrible sat.

Bingo.

Commercecomet24
09-11-2023, 10:57 AM
Sometimes we fuss about players not being used without knowing exactly why. Creed was suffering from a minor leg injury and was being used judicially to save him for next week. Also, Zavion isn't 100% yet as well as a couple others. Before we fuss about player utilization need to know all the facts. Contrary to popular belief Coaches do want to use their best players and win.

War Machine Dawg
09-11-2023, 05:50 PM
Sometimes we fuss about players not being used without knowing exactly why. Creed was suffering from a minor leg injury and was being used judicially to save him for next week. Also, Zavion isn't 100% yet as well as a couple others. Before we fuss about player utilization need to know all the facts. Contrary to popular belief Coaches do want to use their best players and win.

I specifically said we eased Zavion back in. Didn't have any real problem with it.

Unless Creed's leg is about to fall off, he better be playing and getting the ball. He's one of our few high ceiling playmakers. If he doesn't know the difference in being hurt and injured, then he better learn fast. You play through niggles to the best of your ability.

War Machine Dawg
09-11-2023, 05:54 PM
Lost me at should have fought to keep sawyer. Who was terrible sat.

I'm not saying Sawyer would be the answer or even that much better. If I'm remembering correctly, he isn't exactly a dual threat QB. But he does have more arm strength than Will, even if his accuracy isn't as good. That fits what we want in our passing game better. My stance is even if we'd kept Sawyer, which we should have, we still probably don't have the QB on campus that's able to do everything this offense requires this season. Maybe Parsons can be that guy next year or we can go get a more complete dual threat QB in the portal to give Parsons more time. But I would've liked for us to have more options available to us this season than Will and Wright. That's all I'm really saying when I say we should've tried to keep Sawyer.

War Machine Dawg
09-11-2023, 06:12 PM
Again. The over hyped Rogers can not throw the deep ball is proven wrong by PFF.

2022: 6 TDs and 1 INT in the 20 plus yards in air. In the 10-19 yards ball in air... 13 TDs with 3 INTs

vs

2022: 9 TDs in the 20 Plus yards in air with 2 ints. In the 10-19 yards ball in air 15 TDs and 3 Ints.


The proof is there to see. It just people crave for the back up when the issue is the OC play calling.

Did Barbay call a bad game? Absolutely. Is that the only issue? Not hardly.

You can cite all the stats you want. Arm strength has little to do with how far down the field in the air you can throw the ball, although that's part of it. It's moreso about the zip you get on the ball, especially on the deep out and, yes, downfield throws. Will doesn't have the zip on his passes that indicate good arm strength.

But here's the real tell: With Will's stats production the last three years, the NFL should've had multiple teams begging him to come out early as a junior for the Draft. Yet there wasn't even a whisper of any NFL teams looking at him as a draft option. Why? They all see what most of us see: A system QB with a weak arm who's stats have been accumulated through pure volume of attempts.

Like I said in the original post, I like the kid. He's a fantastic ambassador for us. But we shouldn't have blinders about his actual on field limitations. He'll probably end up being a good CFL QB for a few years, then an outstanding QB coach somewhere. And if he becomes a really good QB coach, I'd hope we find a way to hire him at State when that time comes.

Homedawg
09-11-2023, 06:29 PM
I'm not saying Sawyer would be the answer or even that much better. If I'm remembering correctly, he isn't exactly a dual threat QB. But he does have more arm strength than Will, even if his accuracy isn't as good. That fits what we want in our passing game better. My stance is even if we'd kept Sawyer, which we should have, we still probably don't have the QB on campus that's able to do everything this offense requires this season. Maybe Parsons can be that guy next year or we can go get a more complete dual threat QB in the portal to give Parsons more time. But I would've liked for us to have more options available to us this season than Will and Wright. That's all I'm really saying when I say we should've tried to keep Sawyer.

We can agree to disagree on "we should have " tried to keep sawyer..... he wouldn't be playing. And wouldn't be at Baylor, if not for injury.