Sunday Morning Thoughts

[StarkVegasSteve]

After taking the night and morning to calm down and maybe sober up a little I am still pissed.

1. We won. That is the positive.

2. Barbay needs to figure his shit out. I said it, along with many others, that either we need to tailor the offense to what Will can do and maybe sprinkle in a bit of what Barbay runs normally or we need to put Wright in full time.

3. Brock needs to figure our back end out and realize that you do in fact have to cover backs out of the backfield.

4. It may be time to for Arnett to take over defensive play calling duties. Brock could not figure out that when we brought pressure it was flustering De Laura. Instead we blitzed 4 and let him run around back there until a receiver got open.

5. We have to learn to break down and take better angles.

6. Hey Barbay, Creed Whittemore is on your team. Zavion Thomas is on your team. Be just great if we could get them on the field and get them the ball.

7. If we can figure our shit out then our goals are still there. The SEC West is as wide open as it will ever be.

[RockyDog]

Won’t have to worry about Whittemore touches after this season if Barbay keeps this up. We are gonna be right back where we were as a 2 star receiver program.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Won’t have to worry about Whittemore touches after this season if Barbay keeps this up. We are gonna be right back where we were as a 2 star receiver program.

Afraid you are correct Rock.

[TrapGame]

Will missed two open receivers. That's unacceptable for a fourth year starter. I's 28-0 if Will hits those two receivers. Barbay's game plan was shit. He's had far better game plans in his resume. I don't know if he's holding back trying to vanilla the first two OOC games. Arnett mentioned last week in his weekly presser about being too vanilla at times on defense. I assume we are also fairly vanilla on offense. That mindset means nothing if we come out against LSU and still can't execute or Will over throws open receivers. Not trying to target Creed on a 3rd and short or 4th down was CRIMINAL.

[FISHDAWG]

After taking the night and morning to calm down and maybe sober up a little I am still pissed.

1. We won. That is the positive.

2. Barbay needs to figure his shit out. I said it, along with many others, that either we need to tailor the offense to what Will can do and maybe sprinkle in a bit of what Barbay runs normally or we need to put Wright in full time.

3. Brock needs to figure our back end out and realize that you do in fact have to cover backs out of the backfield.

4. It may be time to for Arnett to take over defensive play calling duties. Brock could not figure out that when we brought pressure it was flustering De Laura. Instead we blitzed 4 and let him run around back there until a receiver got open.

5. We have to learn to break down and take better angles.

6. Hey Barbay, Creed Whittemore is on your team. Zavion Thomas is on your team. Be just great if we could get them on the field and get them the ball.

7. If we can figure our shit out then our goals are still there. The SEC West is as wide open as it will ever be.

Pretty good assessment..... looking back in hindsight I'm giving Leach more credit than I did before.... although I was not a big Leach fan originally (not saying I thought he was terrible or anything- just that his system could be better) .... I have very little faith in this coaching staff.... and I will no longer defend our current QB .... I know it's only the second game but I expect next week's meltdown to dwarf this week.... prepare yourselves because it's gonna be a long rough season.... I think our bowl streak may be in jeopardy

[BlackSailsDawg]

Won’t have to worry about Whittemore touches after this season if Barbay keeps this up. We are gonna be right back where we were as a 2 star receiver program.

That's right. We will have a massive transferring out.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Pretty good assessment..... looking back in hindsight I'm giving Leach more credit than I did before.... although I was not a big Leach fan originally (not saying I thought he was terrible or anything- just that his system could be better) .... I have very little faith in this coaching staff.... and I will no longer defend our current QB .... I know it's only the second game but I expect next week's meltdown to dwarf this week.... prepare yourselves because it's gonna be a long rough season.... I think our bowl streak may be in jeopardy

Luckily for us, the rest of the SEC West seems to be down as well. So we may win a couple we do not usually win.

[RockyDog]

I don’t understand why we can’t just have a normal passing game. Kiffin draws plays in the dirt and gets guys wide open. They got a transfer from La Tech who’s putting up big numbers.

We had to sell out for putting up big numbers by throwing 75 passes a game. Now we try to switch it up and are back to caveman football. I don’t understand why we can’t get ONE guy in here that knows how offensive football works.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Will missed two open receivers. That's unacceptable for a fourth year starter. I's 28-0 if Will hits those two receivers. Barbay's game plan was shit. He's had far better game plans in his resume. I don't know if he's holding back trying to vanilla the first two OOC games. Arnett mentioned last week in his weekly presser about being too vanilla at times on defense. I assume we are also fairly vanilla on offense. That mindset means nothing if we come out against LSU and still can't execute or Will over throws open receivers. Not trying to target Creed on a 3rd and short or 4th down was CRIMINAL.

On Barbay, there's 3 options. From best case to worse case:

1) Barbay just had a 1 off AWFUL game. If true, we're fine going forward.

2) Barbay is struggling to figure out how to use a running QB that can't throw it accurately (or maybe can't grasp the offense?) and a throwing QB that can't run and honestly ain't all that passing either. Both QBs are extremely limited and maybe Barbay is stuck in confusion about how to use them. If true, we will probably get better moving forward as he does figure out what works.

3) Barbay was always an idiot, and the App. State HC had his hand in that offense to make it work. If true, our bowl streak is going down because CZA doesn't have the offensive background to be able to effectively micromanage the O.

[Jacksondevildog]

If this is what the offensive philosophy will look like moving forward, we are playing the wrong guy at QB. That's just fact. Bringing in Wright to simply hand it off is completely ridiculous. Wright carried the ball for nearly 100 yards in game 1 and he doesn't even get a carry until the 4th quarter last night and everyone in the stadium knew he was about to keep it.

[StarkVegasSteve]

On Barbay, there's 3 options. From best case to worse case:

1) Barbay just had a 1 off AWFUL game. If true, we're fine going forward.

2) Barbay is struggling to figure out how to use a running QB that can't throw it accurately (or maybe can't grasp the offense?) and a throwing QB that can't run and honestly ain't all that passing either. Both QBs are extremely limited and maybe Barbay is stuck in confusion about how to use them. If true, we will probably get better moving forward as he does figure out what works.

3) Barbay was always an idiot, and the App. State HC had his hand in that offense to make it work. If true, our bowl streak is going down because CZA doesn't have the offensive background to be able to effectively micromanage the O.

I think it is a mix of 2 and 3. I think he is struggling to figure out how to properly use Will. I think he would prefer to use Wright but knows that he cannot replace Will so he is still trying to figure out the offense. I also think his offense at App State was the HC micromanaging things.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Will missed two open receivers. That's unacceptable for a fourth year starter. I's 28-0 if Will hits those two receivers. Barbay's game plan was shit. He's had far better game plans in his resume. I don't know if he's holding back trying to vanilla the first two OOC games. Arnett mentioned last week in his weekly presser about being too vanilla at times on defense. I assume we are also fairly vanilla on offense. That mindset means nothing if we come out against LSU and still can't execute or Will over throws open receivers. Not trying to target Creed on a 3rd and short or 4th down was CRIMINAL.

Every starting QB in college and the NFL miss receivers without exceptions. Rogers was 75% yesterday on plays that Barbary called. He accounted for 162 yards and averaged 9.5 yards per pass.

Instead of taking passes away (that resulted in them keying on the run game.) adding 12 passes would have resulted in opening up the run game more.

[TrapGame]

On Barbay, there's 3 options. From best case to worse case:

1) Barbay just had a 1 off AWFUL game. If true, we're fine going forward.

2) Barbay is struggling to figure out how to use a running QB that can't throw it accurately (or maybe can't grasp the offense?) and a throwing QB that can't run and honestly ain't all that passing either. Both QBs are extremely limited and maybe Barbay is stuck in confusion about how to use them. If true, we will probably get better moving forward as he does figure out what works.

3) Barbay was always an idiot, and the App. State HC had his hand in that offense to make it work. If true, our bowl streak is going down because CZA doesn't have the offensive background to be able to effectively micromanage the O.

I'm hoping it's not #3 or we are totally ****ed. Shawn Clark at App State is not an Xs and Os kind of guy. He was an OL coach with zero play calling experience.

We got Arizona's A+ game with a very competent head coach in Jed Fisch. Barbay grossly underestimated what we were going to see out of Arizona's defense. And kudos to AZ for the portal upgrades.

I'm still pissed at Will for missing two open receivers for touchdowns. Mr. Fourth Year Passing Record Holder CANNOT miss those. 28-0 and we have a totally different ball game.

[BlackSailsDawg]

On Barbay, there's 3 options. From best case to worse case:

1) Barbay just had a 1 off AWFUL game. If true, we're fine going forward.

2) Barbay is struggling to figure out how to use a running QB that can't throw it accurately (or maybe can't grasp the offense?) and a throwing QB that can't run and honestly ain't all that passing either. Both QBs are extremely limited and maybe Barbay is stuck in confusion about how to use them. If true, we will probably get better moving forward as he does figure out what works.

3) Barbay was always an idiot, and the App. State HC had his hand in that offense to make it work. If true, our bowl streak is going down because CZA doesn't have the offensive background to be able to effectively micromanage the O.

No. He totally screwed up last night and refused to adapt in the game. They had their ears pinned back for the run and coming after the QB and he leaves no back in to help block that rush. If he can not figure out to use the Rbs and speed at WR he is an idiot.

[civildawg]

Got a 5 star receiver in our backyard that watched that abomination last night. Going to be pat Patterson all over again

[TrapGame]

Every starting QB in college and the NFL miss receivers without exceptions. Rogers was 75% yesterday on plays that Barbary called. He accounted for 162 yards and averaged 9.5 yards per pass.

Instead of taking passes away (that resulted in them keying on the run game.) adding 12 passes would have resulted in opening up the run game more.

Will can't miss two open receivers as a fourth year starter, not when your P5 opponent is treating it like their Super Bowl. I guarantee you they started practicing against us in the Spring. We got their A+ game and barely survived. Barbay's play calling in the 4th quarter was va-jay-jay worthy.

[FISHDAWG]

No. He totally screwed up last night and refused to adapt in the game. They had their ears pinned back for the run and coming after the QB and he leaves no back in to help block that rush. If he can not figure out to use the Rbs and speed at WR he is an idiot.
And Barbay was very fortunate that the defense got all those turnovers or this could have been a true disaster

[msugolf]

Will can't miss two open receivers as a fourth year starter, not when your P5 opponent is treating it like their Super Bowl. I guarantee you they started practicing against us in the Spring. We got their A+ game and barely survived. Barbay's play calling in the 4th quarter was va-jay-jay worthy.

If Arizona A plus game includes 5 turnovers then I wonder what their C or even F game would look like? Geez

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Will can't miss two open receivers as a fourth year starter, not when your P5 opponent is treating it like their Super Bowl. I guarantee you they started practicing against us in the Spring. We got their A+ game and barely survived. Barbay's play calling in the 4th quarter was va-jay-jay worthy.

Their A+ game is a bunch of penalties and 5 turnovers and a couple dropped passes?

We got their B game. B+ at the most

[BlackSailsDawg]

Will can't miss two open receivers as a fourth year starter, not when your P5 opponent is treating it like their Super Bowl. I guarantee you they started practicing against us in the Spring. We got their A+ game and barely survived. Barbay's play calling in the 4th quarter was va-jay-jay worthy.

No, any QB can and will miss some. The issue lies with the person not allowing a 76% passer to get in a rhythm. He has the plays, he stated they have the plays..... he just isn't using them.

[TrapGame]

If Arizona A plus game includes 5 turnovers then I wonder what their C or even F game would look like? Geez

That's on our defense doing their jobs.

Jed Fisch had a good game plan. We didn't.

[BlackSailsDawg]

And Barbay was very fortunate that the defense got all those turnovers or this could have been a true disaster

100% correct.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I think it is a mix of 2 and 3. I think he is struggling to figure out how to properly use Will. I think he would prefer to use Wright but knows that he cannot replace Will so he is still trying to figure out the offense. I also think his offense at App State was the HC micromanaging things.

Not saying that's wrong, but it doesn't jive to me.

If I wanted to replace Will with Wright, I'd let Wright throw it. I'd let Wright run it more than 1 time. I'd let Wright get the 4th down and short plays instead of putting Will back in to have him handoff. I'd use the better QB where I can even if I have to keep Will as the "starter". I'd also have will throw it deep more, so he can either sink or swim and if sink expedite the change at QB i want.

I just see no way an OC would go "man I really wish I could start the backup" but then not use the backup at all even when it's appropriate to do so

[TrapGame]

No, any QB can and will miss some. The issue lies with the person not allowing a 76% passer to get in a rhythm. He has the plays, he stated they have the plays..... he just isn't using them.

I agree with that. I guess Barbay thought he could App St/Texas A&M this game but Jimbo wishes he had De Laura as his QB. Barbay screwed the pooch last night. Thanks to the tenacity of the team for grinding it out and making some key plays to edge out a win.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

That's on our defense doing their jobs.

Jed Fisch had a good game plan. We didn't.

They did not. They threw INTs on their first several possessions and we ran it down their throats with our base run plays. They did not have a good gameplan on either side of the ball. Conversely, we excelled at what we planed to do.

BUT, they did adjust on both sides. We did not on either

[TrapGame]

They did not. They threw INTs on their first several possessions and we ran it down their throats with our base run plays. They did not have a good gameplan on either side of the ball. Conversely, we excelled at what we planed to do.

BUT, they did adjust on both sides. We did not on either

We totally didn't adjust on either side of the ball. I am 100% with you there.

Jed Fisch is a good coach that upgraded in the portal. That's P5 football today.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I agree with that. I guess Barbay thought he could App St/Texas A&M this game but Jimbo wishes he had De Laura as his QB. Barbay screwed the pooch last night. Thanks to the tenacity of the team for grinding it out and making some key plays to edge out a win.

And I'm not saying going back to Him throwing it 40 plus times per game.


We had 5 offensive possessions in the second half. The first was a short field and a TD pass after 3 runs in a row. The others:

1st & 10 at MSST 21
(6:29 - 3rd) Seth Davis run for 4 yds to the MSST 25
2nd & 6 at MSST 25
(6:29 - 3rd) Seth Davis run for 5 yds to the MSST 30
3rd & 1 at MSST 30
(6:29 - 3rd) Jeffery Pittman run for no gain to the MSST 30
4th & 1 at MSST 30
(4:08 - 3rd) Keelan Crimmins punt for 40 yds, fair catch by Jacob Cowing at the ARIZ 30



1st & 10 at MSST 12
(1:22 - 3rd) Will Rogers pass complete to Simeon Price for 8 yds to the MSST 20
2nd & 2 at MSST 20
(1:22 - 3rd) Will Rogers pass complete to Jo'Quavious Marks for 13 yds to the MSST 33 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at MSST 33
(0:00 - 3rd) Jo'Quavious Marks run for 6 yds to the MSST 39
End of 3rd Quarter
2nd & 4 at MSST 39
(15:00 - 4th) Will Rogers pass complete to Lideatrick Griffin for 9 yds to the MSST 48 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at MSST 48
(15:00 - 4th) Will Rogers pass incomplete
2nd & 10 at MSST 48
(15:00 - 4th) Jeffery Pittman run for 1 yd to the MSST 49
3rd & 9 at MSST 49
(15:00 - 4th) Will Rogers sacked by Jacob Manu for a loss of 6 yards to the MSST 43


1st & 10 at MSST 25
(9:14 - 4th) Arizona Penalty, Personal Foul (Isaiah Taylor) to the ARIZ 23 for a 1ST down
1st & 10 at ARIZ 23
(9:14 - 4th) Jo'Quavious Marks run for 6 yds to the ARIZ 17
(7:36 - 4th) Timeout Mississippi State, clock 07:36
2nd & 4 at ARIZ 17
(7:36 - 4th) Jo'Quavious Marks run for 1 yd to the ARIZ 16
3rd & 3 at ARIZ 16
(7:36 - 4th) Jo'Quavious Marks run for a loss of 2 yards to the ARIZ 18
4th & 5 at ARIZ 18
(6:47 - 4th) Kyle Ferrie 36 yd FG GOOD



1st & 10 at MSST 38
(4:15 - 4th) Jo'Quavious Marks run for 4 yds to the MSST 42
2nd & 6 at MSST 42
(4:15 - 4th) Mike Wright run for a loss of 3 yards to the MSST 39
3rd & 9 at MSST 39
(4:15 - 4th) Will Rogers pass incomplete
4th & 9 at MSST 39
(2:43 - 4th) Keelan Crimmins punt for 37 yds, fair catch by Jacob Cowing at the ARIZ 24





That's horrible and shows they were now keying on the run game.

[Ranchdawg]

Everybody is yakking about offensive woes. But to me the defense last night was absolutely abysmal. Cover that rb out of the backfield and those swing passes. Az was extremely well coached and made adjustments on defense and offense. They coached circles around our coaches. Fix it deadgum it. Second game I watched in person. WOW really bad.

[Schultzy]

Dr. Ruby says it’s a perfect day to be an MSU fan, we won the game and still have plenty to bitch about.

[EdwardDrayton]

Every starting QB in college and the NFL miss receivers without exceptions. Rogers was 75% yesterday on plays that Barbary called. He accounted for 162 yards and averaged 9.5 yards per pass.

Instead of taking passes away (that resulted in them keying on the run game.) adding 12 passes would have resulted in opening up the run game more.

You have to look beyond the top level stat. Yes, he threw for 162 yards. BUT, for example, the pass to Pittman was to the LOS and Pittman ran the 29 yards. Will really is not doing much through the air.

[TrapGame]

Everybody is yakking about offensive woes. But to me the defense last night was absolutely abysmal. Cover that rb out of the backfield and those swing passes. Az was extremely well coached and made adjustments on defense and offense. They coached circles around our coaches. Fix it deadgum it. Second game I watched in person. WOW really bad.

A seasoned group of coaches in year three of their tenure out coached our younger coaches in year one. That is 100% fact. It was the fight in the our team that made the difference.

[EdwardDrayton]

A seasoned group of coaches in year three of their tenure out coached our younger coaches in year one. That is 100% fact. It was the fight in the our team that made the difference.

Ours struggled with having the right personnel on the field for the situation and at times our blitz schemes were head scratching.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Everybody is yakking about offensive woes. But to me the defense last night was absolutely abysmal. Cover that rb out of the backfield and those swing passes. Az was extremely well coached and made adjustments on defense and offense. They coached circles around our coaches. Fix it deadgum it. Second game I watched in person. WOW really bad.

Agreed. We had players miss assignments, on 4th and short we aligned 1 DB over 2 WR stacks and gave up super easy conversions because of it, we never adjusted to covering men in the flat, we never really tried a QB spy (that I saw anyway), we did not have the front 6 contain Lelaura very well, several run plays we got blown back, and we failed to generate pressure way too often. Yeah, the D has work to do.

But the defense has a much higher floor than the offense, that's why we're focusing on the offense. But yesterday the defense was actually a bigger disappointment vs my expectations

[Lord McBuckethead]

I would skip Wright and go with Parson unless his injury from HS is still an issue. What do we gain with Wright over Parson?

[defiantdog]

Everybody is yakking about offensive woes. But to me the defense last night was absolutely abysmal. Cover that rb out of the backfield and those swing passes. Az was extremely well coached and made adjustments on defense and offense. They coached circles around our coaches. Fix it deadgum it. Second game I watched in person. WOW really bad.
It's hard to cover the RB when the LBs blitz every play

[Offshore Dawg]

That's right. We will have a massive transferring out.

And you can't blame them either.

[defiantdog]

I would skip Wright and go with Parson unless his injury from HS is still an issue. What do we gain with Wright over Parson?
Parson may be the man next season so he needs some reps for sure

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I would skip Wright and go with Parsons unless his injury from HS is still an issue. What do we gain with Wright over Parsons?

Wright is faster. Wright has proven to have good vision. Wright has proven he can throw 57% vs SEC defenses with an acceptable INT rate. Wright has at least seen SEC defenses and knows how to keep his head. Parsons is a true Fr, he may be better or worse than Wright at any of these. But he's probably much worse mentally just from less coaching and experience

[FISHDAWG]

Ours struggled with having the right personnel on the field for the situation and at times our blitz schemes were head scratching.
I haven't seen us blitz this much since Joe Lee Dunn ..... too many times we sent BOTH linebackers and paid the price.... that just shouldn't happen with a defensive HC like Arnett - he could have taken the initiative and stopped some of it.

[EdwardDrayton]

Dr. Ruby says it’s a perfect day to be an MSU fan, we won the game and still have plenty to bitch about.

Not sure these posts would look any different had we lost. Two weeks of the same issues. We just played an inferior opponent that gifted us turnovers.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Not sure these posts would look any different had we lost. Two weeks of the same issues. We just played an inferior opponent that gifted us turnovers.

If we lost, there'd be more discussion about us missing a bowl game and firing Arnett. But we won, so the focus is on how much better we need to get instead of the season being over

[BlackSailsDawg]

You have to look beyond the top level stat. Yes, he threw for 162 yards. BUT, for example, the pass to Pittman was to the LOS and Pittman ran the 29 yards. Will really is not doing much through the air.

Really? Cause I watched KJ Jefferson throw many screens (including this weekend) into the dirt!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Really? Cause I watched KJ Jefferson throw many screens (including this weekend) into the dirt!

https://www.footballdb.com/college-football/stats/stats.html?mode=P&yr=2022&lg=FBS&conf=9&sort=passpct

KJ was a 68% passer last season, averaged over 2 more yards per attempt than Will, and obviously has way more running ability

[BankerDog]

Parson may be the man next season so he needs some reps for sure

Ah not this again. Do you guys not remember the Sawyer talk? KT talk? Etc..

[EdwardDrayton]

Really? Cause I watched KJ Jefferson throw many screens (including this weekend) into the dirt!

OK. Will can throw a screen pass. We've found our messiah.

[BlackSailsDawg]

https://www.footballdb.com/college-football/stats/stats.html?mode=P&yr=2022&lg=FBS&conf=9&sort=passpct

KJ was a 68% passer last season, averaged over 2 more yards per attempt than Will, and obviously has way more running ability

Had nothing to do with my point. The QB's job is to pass the ball on passing plays. The plays called were Barbay's calls and on those Will was 76%. And that doesn't take away from the fact that he throws passes in the dirt on simple screens or behind the LOS.

[BlackSailsDawg]

OK. Will can throw a screen pass. We've found our messiah.

And throw down field.


He was called on to throw 4.2 passes per quarter. That's stupidity. It does not allow a QB to get into the rhythm and it allows a defense to key on the run. Even still, the QB was 76%. Barbay made us 1 dimensional last night.

[RezDog7]

The defense was not the problem

[HancockCountyDog]

We got Arizona's A+ game with a very competent head coach in Jed Fisch. Barbay grossly underestimated what we were going to see out of Arizona's defense. And kudos to AZ for the portal upgrades.


They turned the ball over 5 times. Its hard for me to say that they played an A+ game.

I still cant believe they committed five turnovers and we still had to go to OT to beat them. Its mind boggling.

[HancockCountyDog]

I haven't seen us blitz this much since Joe Lee Dunn ..... too many times we sent BOTH linebackers and paid the price.... that just shouldn't happen with a defensive HC like Arnett - he could have taken the initiative and stopped some of it.

We get zero pressure from our DL. If we dont blitz, we cant get pressure. Its that simple.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And throw down field.


He was called on to throw 4.2 passes per quarter. That's stupidity. It does not allow a QB to get into the rhythm and it allows a defense to key on the run. Even still, the QB was 76%. Barbay made us 1 dimensional last night.

Will CANNOT throw downfield! From the eye test to his arm strength to 3 years of Y/A being worse than any other Leach QB shows he can't push the ball

I agree on Barbay. We need to fix the offensive strategy then fix QB play when Will fails to hack it. But for now, OC is the bigger problem

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Had nothing to do with my point. The QB's job is to pass the ball on passing plays. The plays called were Barbay's calls and on those Will was 76%. And that doesn't take away from the fact that he throws passes in the dirt on simple screens or behind the LOS.

What the F is your point? You bring up JK missing short passes to say he's inaccurate but then dismiss the fact he's got the same comp % as Will!

KJ throws 68% with over 8 Y/A. Will throws it 68% with 6 Y/A. Id rather ave the QB thowing 68% overall and hitting downfield passes than 68% overall and hitting short stuff. Especially when JK is a runner too.

KJ is a much better QB by the stats. He did have an awful game yesterday though. Still had more yards than Will

[EdwardDrayton]

Will CANNOT throw downfield! From the eye test to his arm strength to 3 years of Y/A being worse than any other Leach QB shows he can't push the ball

I agree on Barbay. We need to fix the offensive strategy then fix QB play when Will fails to hack it. But for now, OC is the bigger problem

Think we saw we averaged 5.3 yards per attempt last season. 130th in the FBS. Maybe he can throw downfield? But it's clear he's not doing so consistently.

We're not for or against Will. We just want the personnel on the field that gives us the best chance to win. We seem to be trying to mollify EVERYONE with our approach. That is deadly.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Will CANNOT throw downfield! From the eye test to his arm strength to 3 years of Y/A being worse than any other Leach QB shows he can't push the ball

I agree on Barbay. We need to fix the offensive strategy then fix QB play when Will fails to hack it. But for now, OC is the bigger problem

He can and does. The internet would bes have a story that they stick to but lives in non reality.

[TrapGame]

They turned the ball over 5 times. Its hard for me to say that they played an A+ game.

I still cant believe they committed five turnovers and we still had to go to OT to beat them. Its mind boggling.

We didn't capitalize on a couple of those turnovers. We let Arizona hang around instead of putting the dagger in their heart. We go up 28-0 in the second quarter and it's a different ball game.

Everybody's A game is different. Alabama's A game dwarfs our A game. Fisch was not put in panic mode b/c our offense couldn't put two of those turnovers in the end zone. He didn't need to change the game plan. I think some people need to realize Fisch is a good coach. He's not a Butch Jones or Jeremy Pruitt. He's been coaching in some form or fashion in college football for 25 years.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He can and does. The internet would bes have a story that they stick to but lives in non reality.

Statistically, he does not. Almost every previous Leach QB threw deeper with the same offense

Again, all your posts revolve around defending Will.

Please, share the stats that say Will throws it deep and does it well and I'll change my views.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Think we saw we averaged 5.3 yards per attempt last season. 130th in the FBS. Maybe he can throw downfield? But it's clear he's not doing so consistently.

We're not for or against Will. We just want the personnel on the field that gives us the best chance to win. We seem to be trying to mollify EVERYONE with our approach. That is deadly.

415 610 3,974 68.0 6.5 75 35


Just because the average is low does not mean inaccuracy down field. It means we played the Air Raid system which is to throw it a lot and higher % passes are the main stay.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

415 610 3,974 68.0 6.5 75 35


Just because the average is low does not mean inaccuracy down field. It means we played the Air Raid system which is to throw it a lot and higher % passes are the main stay.

In another thread last week I broke down the stats for every previous Leach QB. No names like Potts, borderline 2 stars etc almost all had higher Y/A than Will and a higher QBR.

Can't blame the Air Raid when Will also falls short vs other Leach QBs

EDIT: And another thing, the Air Raid is not the run and shoot. It absolutely expects real passes. If no real pass is there yes you check down to the 5 yard pass the D is giving you, but the start of the offense is a dropback and 4 verts for crying out loud. Leach asks the QBs to go deep first and check down after the first 3-4 reads. DOn't act like Leach wants his QBs to stay within 10 yards of the LOS and Will was the ideal QB

[EdwardDrayton]

415 610 3,974 68.0 6.5 75 35


Just because the average is low does not mean inaccuracy down field. It means we played the Air Raid system which is to throw it a lot and higher % passes are the main stay.

I see that a little differently. Your offense plays to your strengths. If you have a QB who can consistently execute downfield, no coach on the planet is going to not utilize it simply because it's not in a system's playbook. That's false logic.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Statistically, he does not. Almost every previous Leach QB threw deeper with the same offense

Again, all your posts revolve around defending Will.

Please, share the stats that say Will throws it deep and does it well and I'll change my views.

Sure. This season, he has had 2 TDs where the ball traveled in air over 20 yards.

in 2022, He had 9 TDs where the ball traveled 20 yard in air or more. Between 10-19 yards in air, 15 Tds. A total in those ranges of 24 TDs. That means 38% was deep ball throws that resulted in TD.

2021... 10 TDs of 20 or more in air. and 12 between 10-19 yards. About 50% of the TDs were deep shots.


In 2020, Rogers never threw a TD that was 20 or more yards. Not 1. and had only 8 that was 10-19.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Sure. This season, he has had 2 TDs where the ball traveled in air over 20 yards.

in 2022, He had 9 TDs where the ball traveled 20 yard in air or more. Between 10-19 yards in air, 15 Tds. A total in those ranges of 24 TDs. That means 38% was deep ball throws that resulted in TD.

2021... 10 TDs of 20 or more in air. and 12 between 10-19 yards. About 50% of the TDs were deep shots.


In 2020, Rogers never threw a TD that was 20 or more yards. Not 1. and had only 8 that was 10-19.

Can you share the source for the stats so we can compare his numbers to others?

[Coach34]

I would skip Wright and go with Parson unless his injury from HS is still an issue. What do we gain with Wright over Parson?

Wright being the QB next year is what

[BlackSailsDawg]

Can you share the source for the stats so we can compare his numbers to others?

What does comparing him to others have to do with his ability to score on deep shots?

PFF

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

What does comparing him to others have to do with his ability to score on deep shots?

PFF

I am claiming WIll is not a good deep ball thrower. You respond with raw stats. Those stats are meaningless without knowing what other QBs do.

Please copy and past the link since you already found it

[MBDawg601]

We need a portal QB for next year. Enough screwing around. We need someone that can spin it and has some form of athletic ability.

I don't think we have that guy on our roster. Tulanes back up looks better than any of our guys.

[TrapGame]

We need a portal QB for next year. Enough screwing around. We need someone that can spin it and has some form of athletic ability.

I don't think we have that guy on our roster. Tulanes back up looks better than any of our guys.

We need to see Mike Wright actually run the offense instead of handing it off and making a few runs before we go portal.

[MBDawg601]

We need to see Mike Wright actually run the offense instead of handing it off and making a few runs before we go portal.

I pray it happens, but it doesn't seem like it will this year. I think Mike Wright wouldn't do any worse than will, but adds another element with his legs.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I am claiming WIll is not a good deep ball thrower. You respond with raw stats. Those stats are meaningless without knowing what other QBs do.

Please copy and past the link since you already found it

The raw stats is all thats needed. This isn't a comparison of QBs. No other QB from other teams will be a QB at MSU this season. All Rogers has to do to keep defenses more honest is to throw it deep. If 30% ends up completed then the defense will respect it. That fact that almost 50% of the TDs were 20 yards plus is enough to prove the point.

The only reason a defense will not respect it is if there are no attempts or there are no completions. We are seeing a lack of passing attempts and became 1 dimensional. That's play calling. For your comparison though...

Here is Bryce Young.

2021: 14 TDs in the 20 plus... along with 4 ints. 9 TDs in the 10 - 19 with 2 ints. 4 more TDs with the playoff system games included. That's 3 extra games
2022: 5 TDs in the 20 plus. 13 Tds in the 10-19 range. Rogers had more passing TDs in the deep range and in the 10-19 range.

https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/teams/2022/REGPO/alabama-crimson-tide/passing-detail

[FISHDAWG]

We get zero pressure from our DL. If we dont blitz, we cant get pressure. Its that simple.

And how did that work out for us ? Like I said - we paid the price for it. You don't have to send both at the same time, use a combination of positions like a weak side corner or free safety as well but it looked to me like more damage was done by uncovered backs or tight ends in the flat

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The raw stats is all thats needed. This isn't a comparison of QBs. No other QB from other teams will be a QB at MSU this season. All Rogers has to do to keep defenses more honest is to throw it deep. If 30% ends up completed then the defense will respect it. That fact that almost 50% of the TDs were 20 yards plus is enough to prove the point.

The only reason a defense will not respect it is if there are no attempts or there are no completions. We are seeing a lack of passing attempts and became 1 dimensional. That's play calling. For your comparison though...

Here is Bryce Young.

2021: 14 TDs in the 20 plus... along with 4 ints. 9 TDs in the 10 - 19 with 2 ints. 4 more TDs with the playoff system games included. That's 3 extra games
2022: 5 TDs in the 20 plus. 13 Tds in the 10-19 range. Rogers had more passing TDs in the deep range and in the 10-19 range.

https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/teams/2022/REGPO/alabama-crimson-tide/passing-detail

LOL you know damned well you can't determine if a player is good without comparing them to their peers lol. Lemonis won baseball games last year, he must me a really good coach right? but when you compare his wins to the rest of the SEC's wins, he finished 13th. The fact you want to keep this to just raw numbers with no comparison to other SEC QBs shows you know he can't stack up.

I don't pay for PFF premium so can't look up the real comps (KJ jefferson for one, since his name has been brought up here).

Once again you show you're not interested in honest discussion, but solely in defending Will. If the truth supports will you'll say that, but if the truth doesn't support Will you'll go so far as to say there's no point in comparing QBs because "No other QB from other teams will be a QB at MSU this season". By that logic we can never say if any player at any position is better/worse than a player on a another team. This is how far you'll go to defend Will.

Is it a family relation, or just a personal friendship?

[Fader21]

I was at the game, Arnett called most of the defensive plays, he was at least signaling them in so I don't think he has truly given up play calling duties.

[FISHDAWG]

I was at the game, Arnett called most of the defensive plays, he was at least signaling them in so I don't think he has truly given up play calling duties.
CZA's own quote .... "I don't call the defense- I only signal the calls in ... the coordinators have studied film and formulated the plan... I'm busy doing head coaching "

[BlackSailsDawg]

LOL you know damned well you can't determine if a player is good without comparing them to their peers lol. Lemonis won baseball games last year, he must me a really good coach right? but when you compare his wins to the rest of the SEC's wins, he finished 13th. The fact you want to keep this to just raw numbers with no comparison to other SEC QBs shows you know he can't stack up.

I don't pay for PFF premium so can't look up the real comps (KJ jefferson for one, since his name has been brought up here).

Once again you show you're not interested in honest discussion, but solely in defending Will. If the truth supports will you'll say that, but if the truth doesn't support Will you'll go so far as to say there's no point in comparing QBs because "No other QB from other teams will be a QB at MSU this season". By that logic we can never say if any player at any position is better/worse than a player on a another team. This is how far you'll go to defend Will.

Is it a family relation, or just a personal friendship?

You asked for a comparison. I gave it with a link. According to that Rogers was more productive than Bryce Young.

[Joebob]

Not much to add that hasn't already been said. I'll throw in though that throwing 15 times in regulation on a night where we only averaged 3.7 yards per run is just mind boggling, almost as much as giving Whittemore no touches on the same night. WTF?

[CaptainObvious]

Think we saw we averaged 5.3 yards per attempt last season. 130th in the FBS. Maybe he can throw downfield? But it's clear he's not doing so consistently.

We're not for or against Will. We just want the personnel on the field that gives us the best chance to win. We seem to be trying to mollify EVERYONE with our approach. That is deadly.

Yards per attempt is a useless stat to me. Too many variables to put that stat squarely on the QB. Dropped passes, passes receivers get their hands around but are too weak to hold onto when the defender hits them or reaches in. The offensive line can?t protect and QB has to throw it away or rush his throw. The RB misses a block on the extra rusher or blitzer.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Yards per attempt is a useless stat to me. Too many variables to put that stat squarely on the QB. Dropped passes, passes receivers get their hands around but are too weak to hold onto when the defender hits them or reaches in. The offensive line can?t protect and QB has to throw it away or rush his throw. The RB misses a block on the extra rusher or blitzer.

By this logic no stat matters at all. name me a stat that isn't somewhat dependent on the perforce of others?

RB rushing doesn't matter because the OL may miss a block.

DB giving up a lot of TDs doesn't matter because maybe the DL was giving the QB a lot of time.

Defense allowing a lot of points doesn't matter because maybe the offense sucked and created bad field position for the D.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Yards per attempt is a useless stat to me. Too many variables to put that stat squarely on the QB. Dropped passes, passes receivers get their hands around but are too weak to hold onto when the defender hits them or reaches in. The offensive line can?t protect and QB has to throw it away or rush his throw. The RB misses a block on the extra rusher or blitzer.

Not just that, but Great WRs can break one and add to the Y/A. All of Bama's WRs did it last year and the year before.