Lemon speaks...good stuff

[Coach34]

Says Simmons and Auger are 100%....great news and expected.
Says Pico will be ready to get going after Christmas and that means he could be pitching in March- huge
Says Max Miller and Nate Williams have overcome their injuries and will compete.
And the money quote for me:

"People dont realize the Jurrangelos, the Colby Holcombes, the Nate Dohms, the Loftins are better than whats in the portal. They just have to pitch better." I think the combination of Coach Parker and being in the league for a year and understanding whats going on, those will be some really big pieces" (Now where have we heard this before around here hmmmmmm??????)

[CadaverDawg]

Words are like deer tracks....they make mighty thin soup.

[Cowbell]

Says Simmons and Auger are 100%....great news and expected.
Says Pico will be ready to get going after Christmas and that means he could be pitching in March- huge
Says Max Miller and Nate Williams have overcome their injuries and will compete.
And the money quote for me:

"People dont realize the Jurrangelos, the Colby Holcombes, the Nate Dohms, the Loftins are better than whats in the portal. They just have to pitch better." I think the combination of Coach Parker and being in the league for a year and understanding whats going on, those will be some really big pieces" (Now where have we heard this before around here hmmmmmm??????)

He's not currently the guy you want to brag about siding with. But if you think there weren't other good options that could have been tempted into the portal, then that would shock me. We all know the pitchers we had last year should improve. But improving from atrocious ain't enough to make a total run. Not any more.

[KOdawg1]

Meh, I'll probably care in February, but missing on literally every big target we went after in the portal sort of killed what little shit I still cared about with this team.

I'm in football and basketball mode. Hopefully baseball will improve next year. I'll believe it when I see it.

[BigDawg81]

Says Simmons and Auger are 100%....great news and expected.
Says Pico will be ready to get going after Christmas and that means he could be pitching in March- huge
Says Max Miller and Nate Williams have overcome their injuries and will compete.
And the money quote for me:

"People dont realize the Jurrangelos, the Colby Holcombes, the Nate Dohms, the Loftins are better than whats in the portal. They just have to pitch better." I think the combination of Coach Parker and being in the league for a year and understanding whats going on, those will be some really big pieces" (Now where have we heard this before around here hmmmmmm??????)Coach speak

[Coach34]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

[msstate7]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

I doubt that.

[maroonmania]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

Much more interested in how good our team is next year than I am in how many draft picks we have. A lot of guys with "potential" in college can get drafted. Heck, even Cerantola got drafted and he wasn't worth anything to our team while he was at State.

[Cowbell]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

Will we be top 3 in wins? No. Book it.

[Quaoarsking]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

Who cares? Wins are what matters. If we aren't hosting (or barely missing hosting), Lemonis should be gone, even if the whole team gets drafted.

[CadaverDawg]

Who cares? Wins are what matters. If we aren't hosting (or barely missing hosting), Lemonis should be gone, even if the whole team gets drafted.

Yeah, it's even more embarrassing if we have a bunch of dudes get drafted high and STILL suck

[R2Dawg]

Coach speak. What are you gonna say when you missed on all those you went after?

Just show me the improvement come spring. Hoping.....but not betting the bank.

[99jc]

Lemondick don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!

[State82]

Words are like deer tracks....they make mighty thin soup.
Word.

[basedog]

Time will tell, it's nothing new for a Coach to say positive things going into a new season. Let's all hope it all comes true and most of all the players believe they will win again.

I lost faith in Lemonis, I think he is a good man but a very average Coach who was at the right place at the right time. I do think our pitching Coach is an improvement.

[Dawgology]

The fall of the baseball program is akin to the fall of the Jackie Sherrill regime back in the day. The car didn't slowly break down the wheels came off going 125 mph down I-10. I’ll believe it when I see it there just doesn’t appear to be any leadership in that program currently.

[Coach34]

I doubt that.

Why?

Dohm and Holcombe are top 10 in all of college baseball in analytics- meaning they will 100% be drafted.
Loo will 100% be drafted
Jordan and Hines will 100% be drafted
I think Simmons and/or Auger will be drafted. Then there's Ligon, Purdue, Pico, Larry, Memphis guy- all depending on their Spring performance

We are guaranteed at least 5 with a possible 5-6 more.

Gonna be a good baseball season if we can settle on LF and the freshman 1B from Cali is legit to round out our line-up

[AlSwearengen]

I don’t doubt their arm talent and draftability, but there are countless pitchers out there that can throw it 95 or better but they can’t “pitch”. Lemonis better pray they can figure out how to “pitch”.

There were kids in the portal that have proven they can “pitch”. I think we got one from Miami but we needed another that has proven it.

[gtowndawg]

https://media.tenor.com/wy2zHeWyf2gAAAAC/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look.gif

[Coach34]

I don’t doubt their arm talent and draftability, but there are countless pitchers out there that can throw it 95 or better but they can’t “pitch”. Lemonis better pray they can figure out how to “pitch”.

I 100% agree with you. But we have the talent- it's up to our new PC to get it out of these guys so that they perform. I'd rather have talent than not have it.

[SpaceBully]

Says Simmons and Auger are 100%....great news and expected.
Says Pico will be ready to get going after Christmas and that means he could be pitching in March- huge
Says Max Miller and Nate Williams have overcome their injuries and will compete.
And the money quote for me:

"People dont realize the Jurrangelos, the Colby Holcombes, the Nate Dohms, the Loftins are better than whats in the portal. They just have to pitch better." I think the combination of Coach Parker and being in the league for a year and understanding whats going on, those will be some really big pieces" (Now where have we heard this before around here hmmmmmm??????)

All good news. Now he just has to go out and make it happen. IMO, we had enough pitching talent last year to finish in the middle of the SEC. Let's see what Parker can do with it for this year. I kind of expect bigger things from Bradley Loftin since he was about the only guy we kept who was offered a 7 figure contract by the pros. In is soph. year, I feel that kind of talent should be pushing for a SEC weekend starter spot.

[CaptainObvious]

Nah! I?m not buying it. Too much damage done.

But?. Now we are stuck for another year.

If the team starts slow in February and struggles to start SEC play, the Buzzards will be circling C.R. (Dudy) Noble Field waiting to pick the carcass clean to the bone.

To be fair though, I like my CROW cooked on a grill, not in the oven. Gets a might stringy.

[Todd4State]

Time will tell, it's nothing new for a Coach to say positive things going into a new season. Let's all hope it all comes true and most of all the players believe they will win again.

I lost faith in Lemonis, I think he is a good man but a very average Coach who was at the right place at the right time. I do think our pitching Coach is an improvement.

My personal opinion is even if he turns it around and goes to a Super Regional it doesn't seem like our fans are willing to forgive the last two years.

If I were in his shoes I would just resign at the end of the year and go somewhere else no matter what. Hopefully after going to at least a Super Regional.

[Cooterpoot]

If those pitchers are better than the portal pitchers, we wouldn't have signed two and offered an ass load to another one. Lemons has to say that.

[Cowbell]

If those pitchers are better than the portal pitchers, we wouldn't have signed two and offered an ass load to another one. Lemons has to say that.

This is what bothers me the most - we have NIL money that went unused

[CaptainObvious]

This is what bothers me the most - we have NIL money that went unused

A penny saved is a penny earned.😂😂😂

[basedog]

If those pitchers are better than the portal pitchers, we wouldn't have signed two and offered an ass load to another one. Lemons has to say that.

Truth

[basedog]

My personal opinion is even if he turns it around and goes to a Super Regional it doesn't seem like our fans are willing to forgive the last two years.

If I were in his shoes I would just resign at the end of the year and go somewhere else no matter what. Hopefully after going to at least a Super Regional.

If he goes to Super Regions, I will be first to say I was dead wrong. Beng lazy always shows up sometimes, let's hope he can be very motivated.
Btw, last two years speak for themselves, you should know something was bad wrong, it was not only on the field but chemistry sucked!

[3dawgnight15]

If he goes to Super Regions, I will be first to say I was dead wrong. Beng lazy always shows up sometimes, let's hope he can be very motivated.
Btw, last two years speak for themselves, you should know something was bad wrong, it was not only on the field but chemistry sucked!

60% of the time it works every time.

[maroonmania]

My personal opinion is even if he turns it around and goes to a Super Regional it doesn't seem like our fans are willing to forgive the last two years.

If I were in his shoes I would just resign at the end of the year and go somewhere else no matter what. Hopefully after going to at least a Super Regional.

He would be a miracle worker in my book. If he can take a team that's missed Hoover for two straight years and then misses out on every top player in the portal we had a legitimate shot at during the off-season, and still makes a Super Regional, I'll be in total shock. Will be a significant job just to get us back in the postseason.

[Saltydog]

My personal opinion is even if he turns it around and goes to a Super Regional it doesn't seem like our fans are willing to forgive the last two years.

If I were in his shoes I would just resign at the end of the year and go somewhere else no matter what. Hopefully after going to at least a Super Regional.


Probably for the best. '25 isn't looking good. Next years lineup may be the '39 Yankees compared to the '25 lineup.

[AlSwearengen]

Probably for the best. '25 isn't looking good. Next years lineup may be the '39 Yankees compared to the '25 lineup.

If we turn it around next year and at least make it to a super without sneaking into the tournament, maybe we can get recruits and transfer’s attention and make use of the NIL money that we didn’t use this year and buy a good team.

[Mjoelner34]

The first thing the new pitching coach needs to do is put this sign up in the bullpen.
3382

The next thing he needs to do is to put one beside it that says "No one cares what your spin rate is if your slider is 2 feet outside on ball 4"

[Coach34]

He would be a miracle worker in my book. If he can take a team that's missed Hoover for two straight years and then misses out on every top player in the portal we had a legitimate shot at during the off-season, and still makes a Super Regional, I'll be in total shock. Will be a significant job just to get us back in the postseason.

Please stop the insanity. Holy shirts and pants. 5 of our top 9 pitcher's in 23 were true freshmen. Nobody wins in the SEC doing that. We are very talented in 24. If Lemon cant win with this group- he will be fired. We are easily top half of the SEC in talent and experience- probably top 5

[Coach34]

It kills me that posters will post in football threads and talk about how we should be good because we have a veteran football team this Fall and then turn around and think we will suck in baseball with a veteran team.

[CaptainObvious]

It kills me that posters will post in football threads and talk about how we should be good because we have a veteran football team this Fall and then turn around and think we will suck in baseball with a veteran team.

Because the football team was 9-4 last year and returns a large chunk of that talent including a 4 year record setting starter at QB and a couple of stud running backs, some quality receivers, an experienced o-line, a 2 deep D-line, all-SEC level Linebackers, and a Head Coach with an Attitude!

The players that return for the baseball team went 9-21 in the SEC and lost to some not so stellar non- conference teams last year. And it returns a Head Coach who literally coached from the seat of his pants.

[TheLostDawg]

Because the football team was 9-4 last year and returns a large chunk of that talent including a 4 year record setting starter at QB and a couple of stud running backs, some quality receivers, an experienced o-line, a 2 deep D-line, all-SEC level Linebackers, and a Head Coach with an Attitude!

The players that return for the baseball team went 9-21 in the SEC and lost to some not so stellar non- conference teams last year. And it returns a Head Coach who literally coached from the seat of his pants.

This. I respect your ideas but the fact your comparing baseball with football just shows your trying anything to support your narrative.

Best thing is to let baseball talk die until basketball is over. Hopefully we'll forget some of this stuff and cool off. We all hope Lemonis and Parker turn it around and capitalize on it next year in the portal butt** he needs to be a top 16 team next year to stay. That's the standard here. If he'd have made it to Hoover this year then the standard wouldn't be so high but missing two years in a row, he must make a super to flip the narrative. If he just gets in the tournament and doesn't make it to super and we we still keep him, we're going to be in the same boat this time next year and our standard will be lowered in recruits eyes. I mean we went to Omaha 3 years in a row. We should have never been in this situation.

Again might as well just let baseball talk die for now. There is currently no optimism in sight other than your first post but that's not enough to make me get excited about next year.

[Saltydog]

I have to hand it to you coach. You tow the company line harder than anyone.

[smootness]

(Now where have we heard this before around here hmmmmmm??????)

Exactly, you are just regurgitating the company line.

Sure, those pitchers ?just have to pitch better.? You know who else had the talent and just needed to pitch better? Cerantola, who was drafted pretty high. And guess what, it didn?t help us one bit.

[KOdawg1]

It kills me that posters will post in football threads and talk about how we should be good because we have a veteran football team this Fall and then turn around and think we will suck in baseball with a veteran team.

In football, we return a lot of veterans from a team that won 9 games.

In baseball, we return veterans from a team that finished 13th in the SEC.

They are not the same

[RiverCityDawg]

It kills me that posters will post in football threads and talk about how we should be good because we have a veteran football team this Fall and then turn around and think we will suck in baseball with a veteran team.

I actually agree with your overall point in this thread, but this is a horrible point. There are two huge differences in football and baseball... 1) The football team with these players has actually been good the past two years and 2) The confidence in Arnett not to screw its up is high (justified or not) and the confidence in Lemonis is gone.

[BrunswickDawg]

I actually agree with your overall point in this thread, but this is a horrible point. There are two huge differences in football and baseball... 1) The football team with these players has actually been good the past two years and 2) The confidence in Arnett not to screw its up is high (justified or not) and the confidence in Lemonis is gone.

Good these past two years - but how were they in 2020 when we were the youngest team in the SEC and playing Freshman all over the field?

This year our baseball team had to rely on Freshman in a similar manner - and we saw similar results.

[SpaceBully]

Why?

Dohm and Holcombe are top 10 in all of college baseball in analytics- meaning they will 100% be drafted.
Loo will 100% be drafted
Jordan and Hines will 100% be drafted
I think Simmons and/or Auger will be drafted. Then there's Ligon, Purdue, Pico, Larry, Memphis guy- all depending on their Spring performance

We are guaranteed at least 5 with a possible 5-6 more.

Gonna be a good baseball season if we can settle on LF and the freshman 1B from Cali is legit to round out our line-up

Did Gartman get another year for us?

[Coach34]

Because the football team was 9-4 last year and returns a large chunk of that talent including a 4 year record setting starter at QB and a couple of stud running backs, some quality receivers, an experienced o-line, a 2 deep D-line, all-SEC level Linebackers, and a Head Coach with an Attitude!

The players that return for the baseball team went 9-21 in the SEC and lost to some not so stellar non- conference teams last year. And it returns a Head Coach who literally coached from the seat of his pants.

ok- so to recap:

2022- C34 tells the board our football team has a shot at 10 wins. Responses are that I hate Leach and setting unrealistic expectations. Team wins 9 with losses to Kentucky and blew a 4th quarter lead to LSU. Board realizes suddenly having a veteran team does indeed actually matter. Now has high expectations for 2023 even people thinking we may beat Bama.

C34 tells the board the baseball team is talented and will be a much more veteran team in 24. No longer will be running 5 freshmen pitchers out there. We all know after 20 years of message boarding how this turns out. But hey- let's let it play on out 1 more time.

[Coach34]

Did Gartman get another year for us?

He has another year but word is he had elbow surgery after the season.

[Coach34]

Good these past two years - but how were they in 2020 when we were the youngest team in the SEC and playing Freshman all over the field?

This year our baseball team had to rely on Freshman in a similar manner - and we saw similar results.

excellent point

[dawgday166]

ok- so to recap:

2022- C34 tells the board our football team has a shot at 10 wins. Responses are that I hate Leach and setting unrealistic expectations. Team wins 9 with losses to Kentucky and blew a 4th quarter lead to LSU. Board realizes suddenly having a veteran team does indeed actually matter. Now has high expectations for 2023 even people thinking we may beat Bama.

C34 tells the board the baseball team is talented and will be a much more veteran team in 24. No longer will be running 5 freshmen pitchers out there. We all know after 20 years of message boarding how this turns out. But hey- let's let it play on out 1 more time.

1) You pretty much implied if Air Raid was any good we'd win 10. If not it sucked. I responded there was no way we'd win 10, we had 2 auto-losses in Bama & GA on our schedule. We'd lose at least one more, and maybe 2 regular season. I figured team would be like 2017 team (cause it was loaded with Jrs, not Srs), which it pretty much was record wise. Who was right? But ... I know you won't admit that and I'm not gonna argue about it all day or go try to find threads from this time last year.

2) Most of time, not always tho.

[Quaoarsking]

My personal opinion is even if he turns it around and goes to a Super Regional it doesn't seem like our fans are willing to forgive the last two years.

If I were in his shoes I would just resign at the end of the year and go somewhere else no matter what. Hopefully after going to at least a Super Regional.

I don't care if he "goes to a Super Regional" either way. I care about what happens in the regular season. There's too much randomness in the postseason to read anything into it.

Host a Regional but lose it - fine, he gets 2025, but he's still on thin ice
3 seed who barely makes into a Regional, but then wins the Regional with some luck - should be fired (but won't be, sadly)

[Todd4State]

I don't care if he "goes to a Super Regional" either way. I care about what happens in the regular season. There's too much randomness in the postseason to read anything into it.

Host a Regional but lose it - fine, he gets 2025, but he's still on thin ice
3 seed who barely makes into a Regional, but then wins the Regional with some luck - should be fired (but won't be, sadly)

Baseball is a crazy game. Anyone can win and get hot at any time especially if you are a SEC baseball team. That said, if you are good enough to get into the postseason- which isn't exactly something that is impossible hard to do if you are MSU with the talent we have alone and an upgrade at pitching coach you don't have to have a 40 win regular season to meet our minimum expectations- which for me is a SR. It's all about how you finish. So, I don't care as much about the regular season compared to how we actually finish. If we go 32-26 during the regular season with a 13-17 SEC record and get in as a three seed and then make it to a SR- that's totally fine with me. If you are a SR team that means you are among the elite teams in the country. Bear in mind my example is a four game SEC difference than last year for us. We don't have to have Tony LaRussa as our head coach to pull this off at all. Or Braden Montgomery or Eric Holman.

If we get into a regional it's typically going to be a one seed who is good, a 2 seed that will either be a good mid major like USM or a team like Oklahoma, and then the four will be some mid major team. We win the first two games and it's really not that impossible to get through- in fact it's probably very likely. Even if we lose a game we typically have more pitching depth than our competitors which is why we've come through the loser's bracket at times like we did against USM in 2017 and against FSU the next year.

[smootness]

Good these past two years - but how were they in 2020 when we were the youngest team in the SEC and playing Freshman all over the field?

This year our baseball team had to rely on Freshman in a similar manner - and we saw similar results.

Except this year now is our veteran team. Last year was not year 1 of a multi-year buildup. It should have been year 2 of that, though we were still younger than we should have been. This year we are still going to be fairly young?and then will definitely have less to work with in 2025. So this is the year. And 2021 in football was ok, but certainly nothing great.

[Todd4State]

I actually agree with your overall point in this thread, but this is a horrible point. There are two huge differences in football and baseball... 1) The football team with these players has actually been good the past two years and 2) The confidence in Arnett not to screw its up is high (justified or not) and the confidence in Lemonis is gone.

The guys that we have now as our leaders- Will, Woody, Walley, Cole Smith, Jett, etc.- they were freshmen in 2020 and they went 4-7. Then they got to 7-6 the next year and were a kicker away from being an 8-9 win team. Then they won 9 last year with a pretty tough schedule.

The guys on the baseball team that were freshmen last year- Dakota, Loo, Loftin, Siary, Chance, etc.- they will get better too.

[smootness]

The guys that we have now as our leaders- Will, Woody, Walley, Cole Smith, Jett, etc.- they were freshmen in 2020 and they went 4-7. Then they got to 7-6 the next year and were a kicker away from being an 8-9 win team. Then they won 9 last year with a pretty tough schedule.

The guys on the baseball team that were freshmen last year- Dakota, Loo, Loftin, Siary, Chance, etc.- they will get better too.

Cool. Only problem is, Dakota, Loo, and Chance are all draft-eligible after this year. So the fact that they were freshmen does not really matter at all. They have to contribute in really big ways right now.

[Todd4State]

Cool. Only problem is, Dakota, Loo, and Chance are all draft-eligible after this year. So the fact that they were freshmen does not really matter at all. They have to contribute in really big ways right now.

It is what it is. We have to have draftable talent. Chance isn't going to go pro next year. Loo- only if he makes a big jump. If you're a draftable sophomore you can be drafted and you still will have signing leverage. Meaning you have to be a really high pick to go.

[Coach34]

Except this year now is our veteran team. Last year was not year 1 of a multi-year buildup. It should have been year 2 of that, though we were still younger than we should have been. This year we are still going to be fairly young?and then will definitely have less to work with in 2025. So this is the year. And 2021 in football was ok, but certainly nothing great.

Now you can certainly blame Lemon for having to run 5 true freshmen out there last season. It got Fox fired- and no that doesn’t absolve Lemon. You can certainly blame Lemon for that fact that freaking Chance may be our best option in LF this Spring. But those 5 freshmen should and likely will be a lot better in 24. That’s just how sports work. Experience is huge

[Coach34]

Bold 1) You pretty much implied if Air Raid was any good we'd win 10. If not it sucked. I responded there was no way we'd win 10, we had 2 auto-losses in Bama & GA on our schedule. We'd lose at least one more, and maybe 2 regular season. I figured team would be like 2017 team (cause it was loaded with Jrs, not Srs), which it pretty much was record wise. Who was right? But ... I know you won't admit that and I'm not gonna argue about it all day or go try to find threads from this time last year.

Was I wrong? We had a shot at 10 wins. We led LSU in the 4th Q. Thats a real shot at winning the game- however the dropped punt totally changed the momentum of the game and doomed us. The guy has good hands. It was just bad luck. Kentucky? 3/4 of the board thought we would beat Kentucky. Said so repeatedly and how Levis sucked. We scored 10 offensive points vs Kentucky and lost the game. Levis outplayed Rogers.

We 100% had a shot at 10 regular season wins as I said. We just couldnt pull it out. But the season wasnt disappointing as we ended up 9-4 with an Egg Bowl win and competed hard all season long.

Baseball 2024? We have the talent to host. Should be a Top 20 team. Our HC needs to make it happen. If you pay attention- it wont be surprising if we host at all.

[CadaverDawg]

Death, taxes, and C34 tooting his horn and ignoring the other 50 predictions he got wrong. Oh well, just glad you're around to do it.

Our baseball team is not going to be good enough to save Lemonis next year. The thing about saying "we will have the talent to win, but can the coaches deliver", is that you're basically able to claim Nostradamus status regardless. If we win, you called it....if we lose, it's "I said the coaches would have to deliver, and they didn't". So you're still right. Solid strategy that has served you well.

I'll go on record that Lemon's last year will be this upcoming season. He sat on his ass after the Title and thought he could win here on autopilot. Now the hole he dug is too deep for him to dig out of.

[Pancho]

Cadaver done summed it all up

[The Federalist Engineer]

Good these past two years - but how were they in 2020 when we were the youngest team in the SEC and playing Freshman all over the field?

This year our baseball team had to rely on Freshman in a similar manner - and we saw similar results.

"Had to rely on Freshman" ... because almost nobody was developed and recruiting was so poor. Other than Cade, no other High School recruited pitcher became a good upper class contributor. I hope MSU can win 14 or 15 games in 2024 and make a regional, then fire Lemons, and hand the next coach a better portal situation. Every program has injury, so that's not an excuse.

In 2022...

(1) Jackson Fristoe was not around for a Junior year
(2) Mikey Tepper same
(3) Andrew Walling became the new Paul Young, but worse
(4) KC Hunt was a 4-year freshman
(5) Parker Stinnett was a D2 player never cut
(6) Enema was a D3 player
(7) Hardin same a Enema

But lets not forget that MSU was not just the worst pitching team in the SEC, the pitching was an order of magnitude worse than the next worst team.

[Coach34]

"Had to rely on Freshman" ... because almost nobody was developed and recruiting was so poor. Other than Cade, no other High School recruited pitcher became a good upper class contributor. I hope MSU can win 14 or 15 games in 2024 and make a regional, then fire Lemons, and hand the next coach a better portal situation. Every program has injury, so that's not an excuse.

In 2022...

(1) Jackson Fristoe was not around for a Junior year
(2) Mikey Tepper same
(3) Andrew Walling became the new Paul Young, but worse
(4) KC Hunt was a 4-year freshman
(5) Parker Stinnett was a D2 player never cut
(6) Enema was a D3 player
(7) Hardin same a Enema

But lets not forget that MSU was not just the worst pitching team in the SEC, the pitching was an order of magnitude worse than the next worst team.

agree. And we fired the PC

[Saltydog]

Death, taxes, and C34 tooting his horn and ignoring the other 50 predictions he got wrong. Oh well, just glad you're around to do it.

Our baseball team is not going to be good enough to save Lemonis next year. The thing about saying "we will have the talent to win, but can the coaches deliver", is that you're basically able to claim Nostradamus status regardless. If we win, you called it....if we lose, it's "I said the coaches would have to deliver, and they didn't". So you're still right. Solid strategy that has served you well.

I'll go on record that Lemon's last year will be this upcoming season. He sat on his ass after the Title and thought he could win here on autopilot. Now the hole he dug is too deep for him to dig out of.

Yes but he has a bucket. . . . .

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

ok- so to recap:

2022- C34 tells the board our football team has a shot at 10 wins. Responses are that I hate Leach and setting unrealistic expectations. Team wins 9 with losses to Kentucky and blew a 4th quarter lead to LSU. Board realizes suddenly having a veteran team does indeed actually matter. Now has high expectations for 2023 even people thinking we may beat Bama.

C34 tells the board the baseball team is talented and will be a much more veteran team in 24. No longer will be running 5 freshmen pitchers out there. We all know after 20 years of message boarding how this turns out. But hey- let's let it play on out 1 more time.

Bookmarked for 9 months from now. It's just too good not too lol

[CadaverDawg]

Yes but he has a bucket. . . . .

Lol, very well played

[Coach34]

Bookmark:

State will be be Top 3 in the SEC in draft picks next July.

Well looky here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="et" dir="ltr">⚾️MOST <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLBDRAFT?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLBDRAFT</a> PICKS BY COLLEGE⚾️<br><br>Mississippi State 11<br>LSU 9<br>Arkansas 8<br>Florida State 8<br>Oklahoma 8<br>Oklahoma State 8<br>Tennessee 8<br>Kentucky 7<br>Ole Miss 7<br>Oregon State 7<br>Texas A&amp;M 7<br>Vanderbilt 7<br><br>h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/Brian_ClemsonAC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Brian_ClemsonAC</a></p>&mdash; Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) <a href="https://twitter.com/KendallRogers/status/1813333746957054359?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[bulldogcountry1]

Yet we only made a regional final.

[Coach34]

Yet we only made a regional final.

So did LSU. UPig didnt even do that.

[smootness]

Great, we had the most draft picks and still had what is, for State, a pretty meh year. I do not care about draft picks. Give me a bunch of Ross Mitchells.

[basedog]

Wish all drafted much success. Hope they all make some money and make the show one day.

[Quaoarsking]

So did LSU. UPig didnt even do that.

They were both a hell of a lot better than 35-55 in the SEC over the last 3 years.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Well looky here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="et" dir="ltr">⚾️MOST <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLBDRAFT?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLBDRAFT</a> PICKS BY COLLEGE⚾️<br><br>Mississippi State 11<br>LSU 9<br>Arkansas 8<br>Florida State 8<br>Oklahoma 8<br>Oklahoma State 8<br>Tennessee 8<br>Kentucky 7<br>Ole Miss 7<br>Oregon State 7<br>Texas A&M 7<br>Vanderbilt 7<br><br>h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/Brian_ClemsonAC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Brian_ClemsonAC</a></p>— Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) <a href="https://twitter.com/KendallRogers/status/1813333746957054359?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wins per draft pick:

Texas A&M - 7.6

Tennessee - 7.5

Kentucky - 6.6

Oregon St - 6.4

FSU - 6.1

Arkansas - 5.5

Vandy - 5.4

OSU - 5.3

OU - 5.0

LSU - 4.8

Ole Miss - 3.9

MSU - 3.6

Lemo is an awful in season manager. His lineups, DH decisions, when to steal, when to pull pitchers, ect costs us a lot of wins

[Todd4State]

Wins per draft pick:

Texas A&M - 7.6

Tennessee - 7.5

Kentucky - 6.6

Oregon St - 6.4

FSU - 6.1

Arkansas - 5.5

Vandy - 5.4

OSU - 5.3

OU - 5.0

LSU - 4.8

Ole Miss - 3.9

MSU - 3.6

Lemo is an awful in season manager. His lineups, DH decisions, when to steal, when to pull pitchers, ect costs us a lot of wins

Is he?

1. Who did you want to DH? This should be interesting.

2. We had 82 steal attempts on the season including Mershon who had 30 attempts, and we had three guys with 10+ steals and another with 9. Even Johnny Long had 2. We were 5th in the SEC in successful steals so I would say we did OK there. Our team wasn't exactly built like the 1985 Cardinals.

3. When to pull pitchers. We were much better about that this year. The real issue we had was we had no real defined closer until the end of the year which makes it much harder to manage a pitching staff. And before you say that's Lemonis's fault they were expecting Stone Simmons to be healthy and was on track to come back before a set back after the portal closed. There was zero way to predict that. Also Aaron Nixon unexpectedly signed a free agent contract with the Yankees after going undrafted and the portal closed because he liked Foxhall which royally screwed us over honestly because by the time it happened the portal had closed. You don't finish fourth in the SEC in ERA if you aren't managing your staff well. Also we lost Dohm for most of the year and didn't get Pico back until midseason and he never really was 100% all year. That greatly affected roles and staff management- and our win totals.

So I would say Lemonis did a good job last year. Especially when you factor in the Georgia game 2 incident that cost us a win in all likelihood and forced changes in how college baseball manages brawls if you could really even call that push and shove match a brawl and the fact that the umpire for game three of the Texas A&M series for us was suspended for his ridiculous ump show including trying to intentionally bump into Hines to get him ejected that's a second possible win there also. We did well enough to host and got screwed over by ECU's AD.

[StateDawg44]

Have they announced an extension for Lemons?

[Todd4State]

Have they announced an extension for Lemons?

Probably won't. I don't think he will get a raise or anything other than a one year extension.

[State82]

Probably won't. I don't think he will get a raise or anything other than a one year extension.

I would guess that is the case. The AD just will be preventing him from entering the last year of his contract with nothing beyond that. As it should be.

[Pancho]

At this point, I think Selmon is spot on with Lemo going 1 year at a time until he proves otherwise. I just hope somehow there are several pure dirtbags on the field for MSU.

[NWADAWG]

Well looky here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="et" dir="ltr">⚾️MOST <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLBDRAFT?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLBDRAFT</a> PICKS BY COLLEGE⚾️<br><br>Mississippi State 11<br>LSU 9<br>Arkansas 8<br>Florida State 8<br>Oklahoma 8<br>Oklahoma State 8<br>Tennessee 8<br>Kentucky 7<br>Ole Miss 7<br>Oregon State 7<br>Texas A&amp;M 7<br>Vanderbilt 7<br><br>h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/Brian_ClemsonAC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Brian_ClemsonAC</a></p>&mdash; Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) <a href="https://twitter.com/KendallRogers/status/1813333746957054359?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This feels like having a bunch of high 3*s in football vs having a few game changing 5*s. Not apples to apples but same concept.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This feels like having a bunch of high 3*s in football vs having a few game changing 5*s. Not apples to apples but same concept.

Baseball is more talent based than football. In football you can scheme to get the ball to your best player or have an extra LB in to help a weak DE; in baseball, you can't avoid your 8 hole hitter having to bat.

We got some elite talent in some spots, then really big recruiting misses in others. It's very odd to me

[Todd4State]

I would guess that is the case. The AD just will be preventing him from entering the last year of his contract with nothing beyond that. As it should be.

I agree. He did Ok this year and the team improved. But he also didn't make a SR.

[Pancho]

I wonder what he would do differently if he had no extension and was in the last year.

[Coach34]

I wonder what he would do differently if he had no extension and was in the last year.

Well, every coach would use it against us in recruiting and it would greatly turn off prospective coaches.

And then if I was him- I'd resign in October and leave us hanging with a young Parker and GoTro for 25. Take a few months off and start job interviewing come April.

[Coach34]

This feels like having a bunch of high 3*s in football vs having a few game changing 5*s. Not apples to apples but same concept.

Well except we had a player drafted in each of the Top 4 rounds. Our entire starting rotation was drafted in the 1st 3 rounds. We literally had the best weekend rotation in the country until Dohmer got hurt. Our Sunday starter in March was a 1st round draft pick.

[Todd4State]

I wonder what he would do differently if he had no extension and was in the last year.

Not extending Bianco is how their slide began. Extending Lemonis is a sign of stability that recruits want to see when choosing a school.

There is a difference between extending a coach and giving them a crazy high buyout and raise.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Not extending Bianco is how their slide began. Extending Lemonis is a sign of stability that recruits want to see when choosing a school.

There is a difference between extending a coach and giving them a crazy high buyout and raise.

Agreed, but does that actually work on recruits? I think everyone knows the buyout is the true indicator of how married to a school is to a coach.

Like State can hire me on a 4 year contract at $30m a year salary, but if the buyout was cheap they fire me immediately and hire a real coach

[StarkVegasSteve]

Agreed, but does that actually work on recruits? I think everyone knows the buyout is the true indicator of how married to a school is to a coach.

Like State can hire me on a 4 year contract at $30m a year salary, but if the buyout was cheap they fire me immediately and hire a real coach

Most, if not all, recruits are not fans of the school so they don't know buyouts or anything like that. They just want to know if a coach will be there past two years. That's why you need to have him extended at least through the 26 season. You can keep the buyout the same.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Most, if not all, recruits are not fans of the school so they don't know buyouts or anything like that. They just want to know if a coach will be there past two years. That's why you need to have him extended at least through the 26 season. You can keep the buyout the same.

But surely even casuals are aware that the buyout is what makes a coach hard to fire, not the length of the contract... I mean this has been common knowledge for decades how could someone considering college sports not know?

[Coach34]

But surely even casuals are aware that the buyout is what makes a coach hard to fire, not the length of the contract... I mean this has been common knowledge for decades how could someone considering college sports not know?

Most recruits/parents have no idea about a buyout but they will see articles about a coach in the last year of his contract. The internet is kind of a big thing

[Coach34]

Our entire starting rotation was drafted in the 1st 3 rounds. We literally had the best weekend rotation in the country until Dohmer got hurt. Our Sunday starter in March was a 1st round draft pick.

We had this to sell to recruits and we pay money. This makes Lemon look like an All-Star. And we still had a helluva struggle in the portal. You guys getting it yet?

[Todd4State]

Agreed, but does that actually work on recruits? I think everyone knows the buyout is the true indicator of how married to a school is to a coach.

Like State can hire me on a 4 year contract at $30m a year salary, but if the buyout was cheap they fire me immediately and hire a real coach


But surely even casuals are aware that the buyout is what makes a coach hard to fire, not the length of the contract... I mean this has been common knowledge for decades how could someone considering college sports not know?

No recruits do not know how big the buyout is. All they care about is "is coach going to be here in three years or am I going to have to play for someone else"?

We have Ole Miss sitting here as an example. They got mad at Bianco because he couldn't beat us so they didn't extend him. It caused their recruiting to tank. And they still haven't recovered from it. Good chance they will be bad again next year.

And if you think that sabotaging the program to get rid of Lemonis is the answer I'll just refer you to the end of the Polk 2 era. Sorry- I don't think a three year implosion of our program is in our best interests either. Especially when it results in impatient fans like you wanting the next guy to get fired because he didn't immediately come in and turn the program around back to 2016-2021 levels because of the damage done to the program to get rid of the last guy who won but some didn't like because he had a bad 2022 and 2023.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

No recruits do not know how big the buyout is. All they care about is "is coach going to be here in three years or am I going to have to play for someone else"?

We have Ole Miss sitting here as an example. They got mad at Bianco because he couldn't beat us so they didn't extend him. It caused their recruiting to tank. And they still haven't recovered from it. Good chance they will be bad again next year.

And if you think that sabotaging the program to get rid of Lemonis is the answer I'll just refer you to the end of the Polk 2 era. Sorry- I don't think a three year implosion of our program is in our best interests either. Especially when it results in impatient fans like you wanting the next guy to get fired because he didn't immediately come in and turn the program around back to 2016-2021 levels because of the damage done to the program to get rid of the last guy who won but some didn't like because he had a bad 2022 and 2023.

1) I love how I'm an "impatient fan" for wanting Lemo fired for missing Hoover in year 4 and 5. You're stawmanning my argument by implying that's an "impatient" standard or that I'd want a new coach fired if he didn't immediately win.

2) replacing a sub par coach is not "sabotaging" the program.

3) I agree with extending Lemo. I think we should play that optics game as much as possible for every coach in every sport; they should have 4 year contracts for the appearance of support, even if that coach is actually on the hot seat and the buyout will decrease next year. I'm questing whether that optics game ACTUALLY helps trick recruits into thinking all is good. As you say, they want to be confident their coach will still be there in 3 years. Well, a 4vs 3 year contract doesn't affect that at all; the size of the buyout (ie how painful it is to replace the coach) is what provides job security. I know nothing of recruits, it would just be surprising to me if they actually fell for an "extension = coach is safe" optics.

4) I think some of our differences come from different views of how "bad" things can get. You allude to Polk 2 being a possibility, but it simply isn't. It's like you forgot that the Portal exists. Yeah a new coach might make some recruits leave or a starter or 2 transfer out, but they'd probably also bring an extra 1-2 good players from their old school, and even if there was pain their first year it would be resolved by year 2. We are not in the era of needing 3,4, 5 years of good HS recruiting to have a solid roster. Portal can fix it fast... if you can evaluate talent, which is something Lemo/Goat have struggled with sometimes. I say "sometimes" because they get some studs, but also just too many duds. Like they hit at 50% but they needed to hit at 75% to avoid a hole in the lineup

[StarkVegasSteve]

1) I love how I'm an "impatient fan" for wanting Lemo fired for missing Hoover in year 4 and 5. You're stawmanning my argument by implying that's an "impatient" standard or that I'd want a new coach fired if he didn't immediately win.

2) replacing a sub par coach is not "sabotaging" the program.

3) I agree with extending Lemo. I think we should play that optics game as much as possible for every coach in every sport; they should have 4 year contracts for the appearance of support, even if that coach is actually on the hot seat and the buyout will decrease next year. I'm questing whether that optics game ACTUALLY helps trick recruits into thinking all is good. As you say, they want to be confident their coach will still be there in 3 years. Well, a 4vs 3 year contract doesn't affect that at all; the size of the buyout (ie how painful it is to replace the coach) is what provides job security. I know nothing of recruits, it would just be surprising to me if they actually fell for an "extension = coach is safe" optics.

4) I think some of our differences come from different views of how "bad" things can get. You allude to Polk 2 being a possibility, but it simply isn't. It's like you forgot that the Portal exists. Yeah a new coach might make some recruits leave or a starter or 2 transfer out, but they'd probably also bring an extra 1-2 good players from their old school, and even if there was pain their first year it would be resolved by year 2. We are not in the era of needing 3,4, 5 years of good HS recruiting to have a solid roster. Portal can fix it fast... if you can evaluate talent, which is something Lemo/Goat have struggled with sometimes. I say "sometimes" because they get some studs, but also just too many duds. Like they hit at 50% but they needed to hit at 75% to avoid a hole in the lineup

1. I'll give you that missing Hoover in 23 was unacceptable, but even I(who wanted Lemonis gone in 22) have accepted that 22 was doomed the moment Landon went down. He made it this year, comfortably I might add, and we should've hosted.

2. How do you know you're replacing him with someone better. A&M, with all their money and coming off a national runner-up season, just had to hire an asst.

3. Again, recruits are not fans of the school for the most part. They aren't going to scour the internet or ask a coach what the buyout is. They'll probably figure out how many years are left on the contract and move on.

4. It definitely can get Polk 2 bad. Fire Lemonis and then make a bad hire and you are looking at a 2-3 year rebuild, EVEN WITH THE PORTAL.

[Coach34]

1. I'll give you that missing Hoover in 23 was unacceptable, but even I(who wanted Lemonis gone in 22) have accepted that 22 was doomed the moment Landon went down. He made it this year, comfortably I might add, and we should've hosted.

2. How do you know you're replacing him with someone better. A&M, with all their money and coming off a national runner-up season, just had to hire an asst.
.

High profile blue bloods LSU and Texas were able to hire bigtime HC's- and you have to realize Texas was able to because the AD hired his good friend. Without that relationship their search would have been tougher.

SC just hired the fired LSU coach that's 66 years old and been jobless for 3 years
A&M hired an Asst
Mississippi will be hiring a new coach next summer
Georgia hired an Asst
Kentucky hired an Asst that went 4 straight seasons missing a Regional before having success the last 2
Tenn hired the nation's top asst and it worked well

Could we do better than what we have? Possibly but there is no guarantee. What is very unlikely tho is that we hire some type of high profile coach. We would be hiring someone and hoping.

[StarkVegasSteve]

High profile blue bloods LSU and Texas were able to hire bigtime HC's- and you have to realize Texas was able to because the AD hired his good friend. Without that relationship their search would have been tougher.

SC just hired the fired LSU coach that's 66 years old and been jobless for 3 years
A&M hired an Asst
Mississippi will be hiring a new coach next summer
Georgia hired an Asst
Kentucky hired an Asst that went 4 straight seasons missing a Regional before having success the last 2
Tenn hired the nation's top asst and it worked well

Could we do better than what we have? Possibly but there is no guarantee. What is very unlikely tho is that we hire some type of high profile coach. We would be hiring someone and hoping.

Correct. It's a hope and a prayer at this point. You're either hoping you find the next Tony V, which we actually have since we found the Tony V before Tony V, or you overpay for a low level P5 or high G5 guy. Again, that is still a guess because they have never recruited at this level.

[BrunswickDawg]

High profile blue bloods LSU and Texas were able to hire bigtime HC's- and you have to realize Texas was able to because the AD hired his good friend. Without that relationship their search would have been tougher.

SC just hired the fired LSU coach that's 66 years old and been jobless for 3 years
A&M hired an Asst
Mississippi will be hiring a new coach next summer
Georgia hired an Asst
Kentucky hired an Asst that went 4 straight seasons missing a Regional before having success the last 2
Tenn hired the nation's top asst and it worked well

Could we do better than what we have? Possibly but there is no guarantee. What is very unlikely tho is that we hire some type of high profile coach. We would be hiring someone and hoping.

And how many really elite coaches are there out there? Corbin is on the downswing, and always had Vandy's money. For all the Schloss hype he has never won a CWS. Is O'Connor at UVA elite? O'Sullivan? Jay Johnson might be - or may just be very good and has coached at two Blue Bloods. Van Horn keeps finding creative ways to lose in big moments. Vitello is very, very good, but can he sustain? I don't feel like we are in an time where you can really peg many coaches as elite. I don't see any Augies, Polks, Martins, Frasers, or Bertmans out there right now.

[StarkVegasSteve]

And how many really elite coaches are there out there? Corbin is on the downswing, and always had Vandy's money. For all the Schloss hype he has never won a CWS. Is O'Connor at UVA elite? O'Sullivan? Jay Johnson might be - or may just be very good and has coached at two Blue Bloods. Van Horn keeps finding creative ways to lose in big moments. Vitello is very, very good, but can he sustain? I don't feel like we are in an time where you can really peg many coaches as elite. I don't see any Augies, Polks, Martins, Frasers, or Bertmans out there right now.

And two of the coaches you mention as all time greats are just earlier versions of DVH in Polk and Martin. I would say Vitello is probably the closest we have seen to Bertman as of now, but like you said: can he sustain? That's what made Bertman elite. He went to 11 CWS in 15 years and rolled off 5 national championships.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

High profile blue bloods LSU and Texas were able to hire bigtime HC's- and you have to realize Texas was able to because the AD hired his good friend. Without that relationship their search would have been tougher.

SC just hired the fired LSU coach that's 66 years old and been jobless for 3 years
A&M hired an Asst
Mississippi will be hiring a new coach next summer
Georgia hired an Asst
Kentucky hired an Asst that went 4 straight seasons missing a Regional before having success the last 2
Tenn hired the nation's top asst and it worked well

Could we do better than what we have? Possibly but there is no guarantee. What is very unlikely tho is that we hire some type of high profile coach. We would be hiring someone and hoping.

You're listing several of these like they are bad hires. Like you use the word "assistant" as if Mingione, Butch, Johnson, and Vitello haven't themselves been very good hires.

Baseball coaching is mostly about talent evaluation and recruiting, which is itself now largely about NIL. We have the NIL to take starters from Kentucky, and the coaching budget to hire the pitching coach away from SC. Our recruiting is unlikely to fall out of the top 15 as a result regardless of who's the coach... yet Lemo is unable to produce top 15 results with all these draft picks.

Could we do worse than Lemo? Yes. He isn't the worst coach in the world but he's not up to the level of his SEC peers. But with our NIL and overall resources our floor is simply higher than it is at SC, Kentucky, Auburn, Mizzou, or even OM (now that they have quit investing into baseball). So why'd we accept worse results than many of them?

You stick with a coach if you're happy with the results. 1 regional in the past 3 seasons isn't cutting it. You don't keep an underperforming coach just because there are worse coaches out there we may hypothetically hire

He gets 1 more year to prove he can get us to our standard. But there will ALWAYS be the potential of Fing up the next hire regardless of what coach or sport we're talking about... you still have to fire the coach if they aren't getting it done. Can't let fear of disaster make you content with mediocrity

[Coach34]

No doubt hiring an asst as HC can be a very good thing. Cann was a really good hire he just f'ed it up. We just have too many fans that actually thought somebody like a TV or other Top HC's would take our job. Our next hire after Lemon likely wont be a "sexy" hire.

Everybody also agrees he better be good again next year. The pitching should be deeper in 25 altho probably not as good on the top end. Hines is returning. I'll be shocked if Dirtbag doesnt return. Cupp. Trout/Downs. Highfill. Portals that look like solid bats a plus defensive specialist portal.

Be good in 25 again or be gone

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

No doubt hiring an asst as HC can be a very good thing. Cann was a really good hire he just f'ed it up. We just have too many fans that actually thought somebody like a TV or other Top HC's would take our job. Our next hire after Lemon likely wont be a "sexy" hire.

Everybody also agrees he better be good again next year. The pitching should be deeper in 25 altho probably not as good on the top end. Hines is returning. I'll be shocked if Dirtbag doesnt return. Cupp. Trout/Downs. Highfill. Portals that look like solid bats a plus defensive specialist portal.

Be good in 25 again or be gone

I agree with everything you said. I also agree that if Hines and Mershon comes back, we will be talented enough to make a Super. No excuses; either host or make a Super or get going

[Todd4State]

1) I love how I'm an "impatient fan" for wanting Lemo fired for missing Hoover in year 4 and 5. You're stawmanning my argument by implying that's an "impatient" standard or that I'd want a new coach fired if he didn't immediately win.

2) replacing a sub par coach is not "sabotaging" the program.

3) I agree with extending Lemo. I think we should play that optics game as much as possible for every coach in every sport; they should have 4 year contracts for the appearance of support, even if that coach is actually on the hot seat and the buyout will decrease next year. I'm questing whether that optics game ACTUALLY helps trick recruits into thinking all is good. As you say, they want to be confident their coach will still be there in 3 years. Well, a 4vs 3 year contract doesn't affect that at all; the size of the buyout (ie how painful it is to replace the coach) is what provides job security. I know nothing of recruits, it would just be surprising to me if they actually fell for an "extension = coach is safe" optics.

4) I think some of our differences come from different views of how "bad" things can get. You allude to Polk 2 being a possibility, but it simply isn't. It's like you forgot that the Portal exists. Yeah a new coach might make some recruits leave or a starter or 2 transfer out, but they'd probably also bring an extra 1-2 good players from their old school, and even if there was pain their first year it would be resolved by year 2. We are not in the era of needing 3,4, 5 years of good HS recruiting to have a solid roster. Portal can fix it fast... if you can evaluate talent, which is something Lemo/Goat have struggled with sometimes. I say "sometimes" because they get some studs, but also just too many duds. Like they hit at 50% but they needed to hit at 75% to avoid a hole in the lineup

1) I was talking about being impatient with the NEXT coach after Lemonis- not being impatient with Lemonis himself. Which our fans are going to have to be if we were to sabotage Lemonis to get rid of him by not extending his contract. So you're telling me that you want to get rid of Lemonis and you're not going to expect the next guy to win immediately at a high level? Right.**

2) The problem with your logic is a top 25 season isn't "sub par". Go ahead and try to sell that we don't put up with top 25 seasons with coaching candidates and see what the pool looks like. Supporting Lemonis isn't just about supporting him. It's making sure that we handle things the right way so that we can get the best candidate to replace him whenever he does leave. The reality is Lemonis has had three good seasons and two bad. And two of the good ended up in Omaha and with a NC. With the most recent being a good season meaning we're trending up.

3) Whether the coach is going to be there is very important to players and parents. When Ole Miss didn't extend Bianco it raised some eyebrows and really hurt them. They don't care about the fine details of the contract because that's largely irrelevant because parents are usually not contributing to buyouts. An older coach near retirement has been used against multiple schools for years. Happened to us with Polk. Happened to LSU with Bertman and Manieri. Is happening with Ole Miss and Bianco. Will happen with Arkansas and Van Horn very soon and is happening to Corbin at Vanderbilt. Player's only get 3-4 years and they don't want to play for coaches that they are comfortable with because who knows who the school would hire next? An extension isn't that big of a deal. It doesn't have to be a raise or raise the buyout at all. And again- it goes back to program health. When we have to replace Lemonis we want the best players here so that the next guy has the best chance to succeed. Screwing over our program to make a point to Lemonis and make some fans like you feel better in the short term isn't worth it. Period.

4) So your plan is to sabotage the program and then tell the next guy to just fix it in the portal? That's a terrible plan. The portal should be used to fill in gaps. Our portal class right now is top 5 in the country and we have multiple fans bitching about how they aren't impressed with what we are getting and all of the "misses". Well guess what? Most of what we are getting is what is typically in the portal. A new coach is going to be getting the same types of players at best. You're basically telling a coach to win now with players from the pool with the lowest overall ceiling. And sure there are Paul Skenes and Branden Montgomery's in the portal but to land multiple players like that would result in a historically good portal class. Good luck convincing those types of players to come join a rebuild in year one.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Todd, did you even read what I said? I AGREE every coach at State should be extended to 4 years for the same optics reasons you state. As you say, an extension doesn't mean the buyout has to get higher. If you read what I said, you'd see I was asking if the optics of an extension ACTUALLY works given that the buyout is the only thing that provides job security to a coach. I was not saying Lemo shouldn't get extended to 4 years. His buyout shouldn't increase till he proved he proves he can make Supers with his players, but he should get an extension.

Regarding our latest season, yes it was an "ok" season. But by your own Super Regional standard, this past year was NOT up to par. You're lowering your own bar to try and win an argument

Regarding being "impatient", I wanted Lemo fired after '23. That was after failing epically in year 4 and 5. YOU are the one trying to take that to mean I'd be impatient with a new coach in his early years. That's not my view; that's a strawman you made up to win an argument. Unless it's Moorhead/Arnett level bad, every coach should get 4 years minimum

[Coach34]

Regarding our latest season, yes it was an "ok" season. But by your own Super Regional standard, this past year was NOT up to par. You're lowering your own bar to try and win an argument

This is where some people go off the rails and try to make everything either THIS or THAT

We finished the regular season ranked in the Top 15. That guy is almost never going to be fired regardless of postseason. We finished Top 5 in the SEC for 2024 and ranked in the Top 15. That's a good baseball season. It's not great but really good.

SC fired their guy who finished tied for 5th in the East and had a losing SEC record. He made a Regional and lost as we did- but the regular season matters also. And even after that? Their hire is a 66 year old thats been unemployed for 3 years.

Those two seasons were not the same and arent looked at the same way by an AD/Administration

2025? Lemon finished Top 5 in the SEC again- ranked 14th or so in the country heading into the Tourney and doesnt make a Super? Highly unlikely to be fired. Lemon finishes 14-16 or 13-17 bottom half of the SEC and loses in a Regional? Solid chance he's calling UHaul.

SEC games are ultra important and each one really kinda counts as 2 games. We think of conference games being twice as important as regular season OOC's right? At the end of the day we expect to be a top baseball team in the country. We were in 2024

[basedog]

This is where some people go off the rails and try to make everything either THIS or THAT

We finished the regular season ranked in the Top 15. That guy is almost never going to be fired regardless of postseason. We finished Top 5 in the SEC for 2024 and ranked in the Top 15. That's a good baseball season. It's not great but really good.

SC fired their guy who finished tied for 5th in the East and had a losing SEC record. He made a Regional and lost as we did- but the regular season matters also. And even after that? Their hire is a 66 year old thats been unemployed for 3 years.

Those two seasons were not the same and arent looked at the same way by an AD/Administration

2025? Lemon finished Top 5 in the SEC again- ranked 14th or so in the country heading into the Tourney and doesnt make a Super? Highly unlikely to be fired. Lemon finishes 14-16 or 13-17 bottom half of the SEC and loses in a Regional? Solid chance he's calling UHaul.

SEC games are ultra important and each one really kinda counts as 2 games. We think of conference games being twice as important as regular season OOC's right? At the end of the day we expect to be a top baseball team in the country. We were in 2024

Lemonis had a good year after two very bad years regardless of the many reasons. I was one calling for him to be dismissed, but he proved me and many wrong. Gonna be interesting to see what next year brings us, I'm hoping for a CWS season because I love Msu baseball way more than any Coach.

Time for football, doesn't matter about last year's baseball season. Btw, I have no idea what to expect in a our football season but I do know it want be as bad as last year.

[BrunswickDawg]

This is where some people go off the rails and try to make everything either THIS or THAT

We finished the regular season ranked in the Top 15. That guy is almost never going to be fired regardless of postseason. We finished Top 5 in the SEC for 2024 and ranked in the Top 15. That's a good baseball season. It's not great but really good.

SC fired their guy who finished tied for 5th in the East and had a losing SEC record. He made a Regional and lost as we did- but the regular season matters also. And even after that? Their hire is a 66 year old thats been unemployed for 3 years.

Those two seasons were not the same and arent looked at the same way by an AD/Administration

2025? Lemon finished Top 5 in the SEC again- ranked 14th or so in the country heading into the Tourney and doesnt make a Super? Highly unlikely to be fired. Lemon finishes 14-16 or 13-17 bottom half of the SEC and loses in a Regional? Solid chance he's calling UHaul.

SEC games are ultra important and each one really kinda counts as 2 games. We think of conference games being twice as important as regular season OOC's right? At the end of the day we expect to be a top baseball team in the country. We were in 2024

Just to add some fuel to the flames.....

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/college-baseball-way-too-early-top-25-rankings-for-2025/

16. Mississippi State (40-23, 17-13)
After two tough seasons, Mississippi State got back on track in 2024. It lost a lot from that team, especially on the mound, where it will have to replace more than 300 innings. But first-year pitching coach Justin Parker did a good job rebuilding the staff in 2024 and has some solid pieces to build around for 2025, including Bradley Loftin, Pico Kohn and Chase Hungate (Virginia). Offensively, outfielder Dakota Jordan is a big loss. But Mississippi State unexpectedly returns slugger Hunter Hines and also hit the portal hard for reinforcements to its lineup, which needs to produce more thump in 2025.