Man when i grew up in Mississippi i knew some crooked sheriff's but this dude from

[99jc]

Clay county sounds like something out of a movie.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/where-sheriff-king-women-coerced-141936954.html

[bobcat91]

The former Sherrif of Tallahatchie County, who is in prison now, ran a large drug operation. Inmates in the county jail made drop offs and cash collection for him.

[MrCoachKlein]

They've all sworn to uphold illegal laws. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't allow any leeway for any unconstitutional gun laws they enforce (among other things, 'patriot act', 'ndaa', etc). IMO if you swear to do something illegal then you don't deserve my respect.

If you think they're crooked down here try taking a trip to your nearest million plus city. I work 911 software all over the country. Seen a lot of bull manure that winds up buried.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The former Sherrif of Tallahatchie County, who is in prison now, ran a large drug operation. Inmates in the county jail made drop offs and cash collection for him.
He is out of Jail now. 2 sides to every story.

[bobcat91]

I'm from there. There isn't another side:He was a slim ball drug peddler

[EdwardDrayton]

We have one of those over here in a South Alabama jurisdiction also.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He is out of Jail now. 2 sides to every story.

I like my sherrifs to have such a clean "side to their story" that they don't even get near having charges brought against them, much less have such a strong "side of the story" against them they spend time in jail over it.

Have some standards for our law enforcement. If they aren't held accountable, then we do not live in a country of law and order- we live under tiny dictatorships and are at the mercy of how law enforcement feels like behaving that day.

[viverlibre]

I know many deputies, all of them say that when it comes to a late night drug arrest of a clean cut girl from a good family, any and all sexual favors will be offered by the young lass.

[viverlibre]

Will we are on the subject, the Rankin Count SO is in a metric shite ton of trouble.

https://mississippitoday.org/2023/06/12/lawsuit-filed-against-rankin-sheriff-in-alleged-torture-case/

[Goldendawg]

Wanted to get this in before this thread is locked?moved. My county used to be dry as was the county next door. I had my first job away from home in the late '70's. When I came to visit my friends told me about the "Chicken House" over the county line. Bootlegger had set up a drive through in an old chicken house for booze, had coolers and ice machines. Sheriff and staff escorted delivery trucks as they were getting a cut. They were so brazen they were even selling t-shirts advertising the place. He, his staff & owner were soon busted by the Feds f(guess tax evasion was also in there somewhere). Now both counties are "wet" of course.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I know many deputies, all of them say that when it comes to a late night drug arrest of a clean cut girl from a good family, any and all sexual favors will be offered by the young lass.

And they should say "no", just as we'd expect a judge to say "no" to a bribe, or a General to say "no" if China offered prostutes/money in exchange for State secrets.

[viverlibre]

And they should say "no", just as we'd expect a judge to say "no" to a bribe, or a General to say "no" if China offered prostutes/money in exchange for State secrets.

Right, ok. New here? It's undefeated and untied. Perfect record for 100k years.

[Pancho]

lotta jobs and plenty cash been lost over this topic

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Right, ok. New here? It's undefeated and untied. Perfect record for 100k years.

No it doesn't, you just don't hear about the could-of-been-Cannizaros of the world who chose to keep it in their pants. Men are not animals

Seriously though, if we can fire a baseball coach for banging an adult employee then we can certainly fire cops who accept sexual favors as payment to not enforce the law.

[Pancho]

I ain't ever done the tango by myself.......

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I know many deputies, all of them say that when it comes to a late night drug arrest of a clean cut girl from a good family, any and all sexual favors will be offered by the young lass.

Well that’s good to know. What is the age cutoff for MLEOTA? Asking for a friend.

[shoeless joe]

I live in clay county. Don’t know the sheriff other than seeing him around. Can’t defend or confirm anything in the article. What I will say is The NY Times also wrote an article about a val/sal debacle in West Point a few years ago and it was 100% a racially based and biased hit piece where they made no mention of what actually caused the confusion and instead turned it into a rich white vs poor black issue, which couldn’t have been farther from the truth. So it will take much more than an article from them to make me come to a conclusion about anything.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I live in clay county. Don’t know the sheriff other than seeing him around. Can’t defend or confirm anything in the article. What I will say is The NY Times also wrote an article about a val/sal debacle in West Point a few years ago and it was 100% a racially based and biased hit piece where they made no mention of what actually caused the confusion and instead turned it into a rich white vs poor black issue, which couldn’t have been farther from the truth. So it will take much more than an article from them to make me come to a conclusion about anything.

No doubt the media just wants clicks and eyeballs; they only say the truth if it's more scandalous than whatever lie they can think up. National media especially doesn't care if they report on these local issues wrong, because they'll get clicks from the whole country but only risk angering a few thousand in bum**** nowhere if the truth eventually proves them wrong

[GoDawgz]

I grew up in Simpson County with Lloyd Jones. You didnt come to Simpson County and mess up.....or you take that long elevator ride between the 1st and 2nd floor of the jail.....

[QuadrupleOption]

Will we are on the subject, the Rankin Count SO is in a metric shite ton of trouble.

https://mississippitoday.org/2023/06/12/lawsuit-filed-against-rankin-sheriff-in-alleged-torture-case/

From the article:

"Most of my life, I didn't have a gun," Green said. "Every Black person should own a gun. Yes, I have an AR-15, and I'm ready to use it. Come to my door, and you'll know I have it."

I would amend that to every person PERIOD should have a gun.

I generally don't advocate violence against people, law enforcement especially, but if those dudes in Rankin County are out of control, eventually people will get sick of it and take matters into their own hands.

Holding law enforcement to a higher standard is imperative to ensure safety for both sides. There are hundreds of thousands of residents and a LOT less deputies. They have to be considerate of their constituents while trying to enforce the law.

Having said that, it could be a bunch of BS but I can't imagine how you can justify shooting a dude in the face after he's been handcuffed (assuming that is accurate).

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

From the article:

"Most of my life, I didn't have a gun," Green said. "Every Black person should own a gun. Yes, I have an AR-15, and I'm ready to use it. Come to my door, and you'll know I have it."

I would amend that to every person PERIOD should have a gun.

I generally don't advocate violence against people, law enforcement especially, but if those dudes in Rankin County are out of control, eventually people will get sick of it and take matters into their own hands.

Holding law enforcement to a higher standard is imperative to ensure safety for both sides. There are hundreds of thousands of residents and a LOT less deputies. They have to be considerate of their constituents while trying to enforce the law.

Having said that, it could be a bunch of BS but I can't imagine how you can justify shooting a dude in the face after he's been handcuffed (assuming that is accurate).

I 100% agree everyone should be armed. You 2nd guess how far you're willing to abuse someone of they can fight back.

But regarding any sort of armed public rebellion? NOT happening. Why? Because even though "Cops should obey the law" isn't an opinion anyone disagrees with, there's a large amount of R voters who believe any accountability for cops will result in BLM mobs burning their house down and their cown will have San Francisco level petty crime. To some extent I get that reaction from the right, because there are left wingers who speak of all cops as racists, and who unironically say we should defund the police. Do we need more accountability for cops? 100% yes. They -quite literally- get away with murder as their departments "accidentally deleted the body cam footage" or "did an internal investigation and found no wrongdoing". DAs are scared of going after dirty cops because police unions can sink their reelection, and the cops themselves can ruin the DAs conviction record. But we still need cops in civil society

But, in this current climate, there would be just as many "all cops are heros!" Civilians defending cops as there would be oppressed armed civilians seeking justice on the crooked cops. It's a shame this incredibly easy to agree upon issue (that we need cops, but they also need to follow the law) has been polarized to extremes.

[viverlibre]

I 100% agree everyone should be armed. You 2nd guess how far you're willing to abuse someone of they can fight back.

But regarding any sort of armed public rebellion? NOT happening. Why? Because even though "Cops should obey the law" isn't an opinion anyone disagrees with, there's a large amount of R voters who believe any accountability for cops will result in BLM mobs burning their house down and their cown will have San Francisco level petty crime. To some extent I get that reaction from the right, because there are left wingers who speak of all cops as racists, and who unironically say we should defund the police. Do we need more accountability for cops? 100% yes. They -quite literally- get away with murder as their departments "accidentally deleted the body cam footage" or "did an internal investigation and found no wrongdoing". DAs are scared of going after dirty cops because police unions can sink their reelection, and the cops themselves can ruin the DAs conviction record. But we still need cops in civil society

But, in this current climate, there would be just as many "all cops are heros!" Civilians defending cops as there would be oppressed armed civilians seeking justice on the crooked cops. It's a shame this incredibly easy to agree upon issue (that we need cops, but they also need to follow the law) has been polarized to extremes.

I think this is a by-product of the war on terror/gulf wars, but LE may have gotten a little too "militarized" over the last 20 years or so. When cops had a .38 caliber 6 shooter, I think they were more apt to use their experience to de-escalate a situation and not rush in like Rambo.

[Pancho]

The criminals have better ammo than a .38 so LE has no choice.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The criminals have better ammo than a .38 so LE has no choice.

I saw a video of cops serving a warrant for someone over traffic tickets, not anything violent. Instead of 2 cops knocking on a door, it was 15+ cops in camo, body armor, with ARs, all getting out of 2 APCS to circle the house. They looked like Seals in Iraq except for the "police" on their chests. There was a grandma, mom, and a couple kids inside who had guns pointed at them when they opened the front door.

Is swat warranted? Sometimes, yeah. Should cops be outgunned? Never. But do they use excessive force just because they have it? Honestly, sometimes yeah. Fact is a lot of cops think of themselves as cool special forces type badasses and they look for opportunities to behave that way when often all they need to do is give the civilian in question an opportunity to work with them.

My issue isn't that they have "military" equipment, but that they behave like they're "military", and the rest of us are potential insurgents they need to be suspicious of.

[viverlibre]

The criminals have better ammo than a .38 so LE has no choice.

Uh, most calibers that are in wide use today were pretty much available 50 years ago. There was a different mindset in policing. I know a retired cop who always says he'd rather work with a lazy partner than an over-eager partner.

[Pancho]

I will have to agree on your point. I have several friends in this state who are officers and also on swat and although they feel led to do this type work, they do fear for their lives due to the total lack of respect for humanity that most of the drugged up perps display.

[Maroonthirteen]

Nm

[Maroonthirteen]

The criminals have better ammo than a .38 so LE has no choice.

This is true. People maybe had bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns or a revolver. We have way more automatic pistols and rifles on the streets than we did back decades ago. Also people are much quicker to use their weapons and blame the police. The odds of police being shot at traffic stops and domestic calls are far far greater today.

Just walk into any gun store now a days. I go to a popular gun store in Desoto County occasionally. The long guns and carbine (of all calibers)inventory they had in there.... it made me feel like buying a pistol was pointless.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This is true. People maybe had bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns or a revolver. We have way more automatic pistols and rifles on the streets than we did back decades ago. Also people are much quicker to use their weapons and blame the police. The odds of police being shot at traffic stops and domestic calls are far far greater today.

Just walk into any gun store now a days. I go to a popular gun store in Desoto County occasionally. The long guns and carbine (of aol calibers)inventory they had in there.... it made me feel like buying a pistol was pointless.

Fun fact: being a police officer is actually the 22nd most dangerous career field after things like being a garbage man, roofer, traffic cop, USP delivery driver, etc. (https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states)

FBI places it as the 18th most dangerous job. (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/)

The number of people shot to death by police has been steadily increasing (https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/) despight the public not getting more violent -based on homicide data at least (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls).

Police are more than 20x as likely to shoot someone to death as they are to be killed themselves, and that rate has been climbing for years. About 16% of people shot and killed by police were unarmed (https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/) which comes to roughly 160 a year.... which is 3x the number of cops killed by gunfire.

if you have different stats please share. I'm not a liberal and I don't trust a lot of stats I see because our media is awful. However, when it comes to policing I truly can't even find stats that make it seem like cops are actually justified in "fearing for their life", or that they're always exercising enough caution before pulling the trigger. I also see no evidence that things are "getting worse for cops" over a 5, 10, 30+ year timeperiod.

If a roofer is scared of heights and is violent with others due to the stress of "fearing for his life", we say "sorry, but you should probably get a different job". But cops? Despight their cob being significantly safer than the roofers, we DO allow the cop to be violent as a 1st response due to that fear. And we call then heros for doing it too. I'm saying we need to hold our cops to a higher standard. They get away with behaviors we'd never allow from those working in the ACTUAL dangerous professions. UPS drivers are more likely to die than cops. But if a UPS driver pulled a gun and shot another driver because "I feared they were going to swerve into me" we'd say they should go to prison. When a cop shoots someone unarmed, "he made a motion that seemed like he might be going for a gun" is accepted as valid reason. It's ridiculous

[Pancho]

I know bad roofers, doctors, teachers and the list goes on and on. I wonder how many of the unarmed folks who were shot by police simply wouldn't comply and kept their hands in their pockets etc? And another thing, out of all these listed professions, law enforcement pays the least so maybe we get what we pay for.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I know bad roofers, doctors, teachers and the list goes on and on. I wonder how many of the unarmed folks who were shot by police simply wouldn't comply and kept their hands in their pockets etc? And another thing, out of all these listed professions, law enforcement pays the least so maybe we get what we pay for.

Many of the more dangerous professions pay less than being a cop. Roofing, for example, per Google pay 29k-44k, while median police incomes in my state (TN) is 52k. It varies by state but "road construction worker", "delivery truck driver", "garbage man" etc are not exactly blowing cops out of the water on income. BUT, of we can't attract quality cops due to the pay, the solution is to INCREASE THE PAY, not accept awful policing. It's literally the most important public service in our society

As far as "bad Drs", when a Dr makes a mistake, it's investigated and they could loose their license. Same for lawyers and teachers actually. When a cop makes a mistake, it's the cops themselves who would control the investigation, the police union would fight any discipline (assuming the Chief even wanted to go that route) and the cop can still be employed elsewhere because there's no licensing. He'll, even the people who CUT YOUR HAIR have more schooling and licensing and testing requirements than police do. The fact there are bad employees in every profession is not justification to have zero oversight or accountability or standards for police.

Moreover, "he kept his hands in his pockets after I said to take them out" is not justification for a execution. Disobeying the order should be an extra charge with an appropriate punishment and a judge/Jury can review the facts of the case (ideally captured by body cam). The cop should ONLY use lethal force when a life is threatened. If they can't handle that, they shouldn't be a cop. Again, statistically they aren't actually under much of a threat.

Civilians have the right to bear arms. Pockets on clothing is legal. If a cop can't handle the level of hypothetical threat that exists in this world, they shouldn't be a cop.

[Pancho]

I'd still very strongly suggest to be law abiding as most of us are. Folks say things happen for a reason and most of the time that reason is their own stupidity or simply making a decision to be a law breaker. I respect your opinion but that split second should always go in the officer's favor until proven otherwise. Folks are some mighty strong drugs these days and are capable of almost anything.

[MabenMaroon]

One would have to take in consideration the sources involved in this article. Most supermarket check out aisle "gossip rags" have higher ratings for accuracy and truth.
( I am not defending anybody or repudiating anybody but I have learned to be very cautious of the the sources mentioned or cited )

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I'd still very strongly suggest to be law abiding as most of us are. Folks say things happen for a reason and most of the time that reason is their own stupidity or simply making a decision to be a law breaker. I respect your opinion but that split second should always go in the officer's favor until proven otherwise. Folks are some mighty strong drugs these days and are capable of almost anything.

I agree with almost everything, the question is about that "split second decision". If a cop yells "hands up!" and the person yanks a hand out of a hoodie pocket and the cop thinks there's a gun and shoots, then OK I can understand the cop even if the guy was only holding his phone. BUT, if you yell "hands up!" and the guy just stares at you, there isn't enough credible threat there to shoot. "But what if he had a gun in there, and what if he drew it!, well that applies to every civilian ever- we all could have a gun somewhere hidden and an intent to shoot the cop. If we allow them shooting people because of what that civilian MIGHT do -and not what it reasonably appears they ARE doing- then they can dust anyone ever and still keep their job. Again, why can't UPS drivers or road construction workers just start shooting drivers because they "could swerve into me!"? It's the same logic.

Like civilians have the right to self defense too. If someone pulls a gun on you, you can shoot them. but you can't shoot people because they had hands in their pockets and you thought they MIGHT want to harm you, you'll go to jail 9/10 times. Why should we expect us civilians to have better trigger discipline than cops? If anything, it's the opposite.

[Maroonthirteen]

From this article...
Officer deaths increased by 29% in 2021. Felonious killings were the top cause of death for law enforcement officers on duty, reaching a 25-year high in 2021, with 73 deaths. The majority of killings were committed using a firearm, which is consistent for the last 25 years of data.

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/

It's interesting to learn you are more likely to be killed logging and picking up garbage. However I can't imagine a logger or garbage man gets cussed out and threatened while doing their jobs.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

That's one of the links I posted, yes. Year to year stats can fluctuate quite a bit, better to use 3-5 year averages to get the real trend, and then look at an even longer graph to see how the situation is today compared to a long time ago.

I've never denied cops get shot, or that there's NO risk in theor job. I've said they shouldn't get to freak out, panic, and get off because "well my job is dangerous I'm under a lot of stress" when we don't let the people working even more dangerous jobs use that same excuse to defend bad behavior.

If a civilian has to face a credible threat before we can use our 2nd ammendment rights and defend ourselves, why don't cops? The people who voluntarily took on a job that may have life or death situation, that are trained and probably wearing body armor should be able to evaluate situations at a higher level than run of the mill civilians. But for some reason we flip the standard

This discussion has devolved into the very narrow window of police use of guns. Overall, that's not our biggest issue with policing. It's the fact they can solicit bribes, sexual favors, use excessive force, etc and the only people who can investigate themselves... are themselves. Power corrupts, and there needs to be a check on police that goes beyond their own department. Even CEOs have to answer to the Board. Evem the President can be impeached and removed from power. Cops need it too

[viverlibre]

This is true. People maybe had bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns or a revolver. We have way more automatic pistols and rifles on the streets than we did back decades ago. Also people are much quicker to use their weapons and blame the police. The odds of police being shot at traffic stops and domestic calls are far far greater today.

Just walk into any gun store now a days. I go to a popular gun store in Desoto County occasionally. The long guns and carbine (of all calibers)inventory they had in there.... it made me feel like buying a pistol was pointless.

There are very, very, very few automatic weapons of any kind on the street. I'm 60 and semi-autos have been around and popular long before my time. The military sidearm in WW2 was a semi-automatic 1911 chambered in .45 APC, still one of the most powerful handgun rounds to this today. The most common rifle used in the Pacific theater was the M1 carbine with a 30-round mag. It's not the weapons that have changed as much as it is the good guys and bad guys.

[tribaldawg]

I live in clay county. Don?t know the sheriff other than seeing him around. Can?t defend or confirm anything in the article. What I will say is The NY Times also wrote an article about a val/sal debacle in West Point a few years ago and it was 100% a racially based and biased hit piece where they made no mention of what actually caused the confusion and instead turned it into a rich white vs poor black issue, which couldn?t have been farther from the truth. So it will take much more than an article from them to make me come to a conclusion about anything.

I?m from Clay County and can confirm that The NY Times article on the WPHS val/sal contained no facts. They talked to one side and printed everything they said as fact even though everything they said was false. They didn?t want facts. They wanted a story painting Mississippi as racist.

ESPN did the exact same thing. They came in to do a segment on WPHS football. By the time it was over it was a black vs white story pitting the players at WPHS against the players at Oak Hill Academy. It was a huge injustice to WPHS as it failed to highlight the accomplishments of WPHS while acting like the only difference in the two teams was skin color. There may have been one player at OHA that would have started at WPHS. If you hear the national media is coming in hide your wife and kids.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Police pay is definitely a major problem. Same with teachers pay. I definitely think if their pay increased we would get better quality. At the same time, penalties for police doing wrongful things should always be to the max of the law with no exceptions. This would limit corruption in departments and give them a more wealthy life. I’m not saying this will fully resolve the problem, but it will certainly help.

[PMDawg]

Fun fact: being a police officer is actually the 22nd most dangerous career field after things like being a garbage man, roofer, traffic cop, USP delivery driver, etc. (https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states)

FBI places it as the 18th most dangerous job. (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/)

The number of people shot to death by police has been steadily increasing (https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/) despight the public not getting more violent -based on homicide data at least (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls).

Police are more than 20x as likely to shoot someone to death as they are to be killed themselves, and that rate has been climbing for years. About 16% of people shot and killed by police were unarmed (https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/) which comes to roughly 160 a year.... which is 3x the number of cops killed by gunfire.

if you have different stats please share. I'm not a liberal and I don't trust a lot of stats I see because our media is awful. However, when it comes to policing I truly can't even find stats that make it seem like cops are actually justified in "fearing for their life", or that they're always exercising enough caution before pulling the trigger. I also see no evidence that things are "getting worse for cops" over a 5, 10, 30+ year timeperiod.

If a roofer is scared of heights and is violent with others due to the stress of "fearing for his life", we say "sorry, but you should probably get a different job". But cops? Despight their cob being significantly safer than the roofers, we DO allow the cop to be violent as a 1st response due to that fear. And we call then heros for doing it too. I'm saying we need to hold our cops to a higher standard. They get away with behaviors we'd never allow from those working in the ACTUAL dangerous professions. UPS drivers are more likely to die than cops. But if a UPS driver pulled a gun and shot another driver because "I feared they were going to swerve into me" we'd say they should go to prison. When a cop shoots someone unarmed, "he made a motion that seemed like he might be going for a gun" is accepted as valid reason. It's ridiculous

Logging, roofing, picking up garbage etc. aren't more dangerous than being a cop. Cops are just better trained at navigating the danger. They treat every single thing they do as a life and death situation, because for all they know, it is. Just because more people get hurt or killed doing something doesn't mean it's more dangerous. Think about all the rigorous training police go through, and then consider the fact that a lot of people in those positions mentioned never get training (or property safety equipment) at all. I can start a roofing company or a garbage pick up service today. I can literally hire 4 derelicts for $15/hr and have them working tomorrow. It's not a 1 to 1 comparison.

Everything a cop does is dangerous. Most of their time is spent dealing with criminals or unstable people, or simply patrolling high crime areas. Simple traffic stops end lives all the time. They don't know who may be in the vehicle, if they have a warrant, or any other reason they may be scared enough to do something stupid. Then, even if it's a little old lady, there are idiot drivers who can kill or maim them because they are too important to move over a lane or even look up from their phone. Police are trained like the military. They are always looking for who or what can kill them. They survive a lot of situations most of us wouldn't simply because they are trained to. Part of that training is to deal with any perceived threat immediately. Stats about killing "unarmed civilians" are useful to people who want to spin a narrative. Like the Michael Brown story. He was technically unarmed, but he was fighting an officer for his gun and got shot. Police don't go out each morning looking for someone to kill that day. Since I take it you don't have family in the profession, talk to any of them and they'll tell you - they all pray they never have to discharge their weapon. But, their main goal each day is to get home to their family, as it should be. It's a hard way to live. I've never done it, but I have family who has. I will never disparage them, because I haven't experienced what they experience.

[Johnson85]

Fun fact: being a police officer is actually the 22nd most dangerous career field after things like being a garbage man, roofer, traffic cop, USP delivery driver, etc. (https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states)

FBI places it as the 18th most dangerous job. (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/)

...They get away with behaviors we'd never allow from those working in the ACTUAL dangerous professions. UPS drivers are more likely to die than cops. But if a UPS driver pulled a gun and shot another driver because "I feared they were going to swerve into me" we'd say they should go to prison. When a cop shoots someone unarmed, "he made a motion that seemed like he might be going for a gun" is accepted as valid reason. It's ridiculous

"Police officer" probably covers a much wider range of jobs than UPS driver. Certainly the risk a UPS driver faces probably varies significantly depending on where they are making deliveries, but it's basically the same job. Lots of police probably have a similar risk profile; lots of safe time with some random, high intensity, dangerous time. But there are cops that are basically as safe as general office workers. And there are cops that are routinely facing dangerous situations. If it's the latter that are involved in most of the questionable shootings (I'm not sure they are), then it's really not a fair comparison to compare them to UPS drivers or loggers.

[PMDawg]

To address the original post about corrupt "sheriff's" in MS, yes, I'm sure there are plenty of them. But it's not a Mississippi problem. And it's not a problem with just "sheriff's" or other law enforcement. It's a problem in every state and every country and with every profession or position that gives someone even the smallest amount of power. Look at state and federal government officials in the US. Throughout the annals of history, power has corrupted people. It just becomes more visible and disappointing when it involves the people who are supposed to protect us from corruption (as it should). Unfortunately, it's never going away. It's hard work to weed them out and make sure they see justice, but it's important work that has to be done. Anyone who abuses their power should be punished (clergy, teachers, law enforcement, congressmen, senators, VPs, Presidents, local officials, judges, etc.).

[lawdawg]

.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Logging, roofing, picking up garbage etc. aren't more dangerous than being a cop. Cops are just better trained at navigating the danger. They treat every single thing they do as a life and death situation, because for all they know, it is. Just because more people get hurt or killed doing something doesn't mean it's more dangerous. Think about all the rigorous training police go through, and then consider the fact that a lot of people in those positions mentioned never get training (or property safety equipment) at all. I can start a roofing company or a garbage pick up service today. I can literally hire 4 derelicts for $15/hr and have them working tomorrow. It's not a 1 to 1 comparison.

Everything a cop does is dangerous. Most of their time is spent dealing with criminals or unstable people, or simply patrolling high crime areas. Simple traffic stops end lives all the time. They don't know who may be in the vehicle, if they have a warrant, or any other reason they may be scared enough to do something stupid. Then, even if it's a little old lady, there are idiot drivers who can kill or maim them because they are too important to move over a lane or even look up from their phone. Police are trained like the military. They are always looking for who or what can kill them. They survive a lot of situations most of us wouldn't simply because they are trained to. Part of that training is to deal with any perceived threat immediately. Stats about killing "unarmed civilians" are useful to people who want to spin a narrative. Like the Michael Brown story. He was technically unarmed, but he was fighting an officer for his gun and got shot. Police don't go out each morning looking for someone to kill that day. Since I take it you don't have family in the profession, talk to any of them and they'll tell you - they all pray they never have to discharge their weapon. But, their main goal each day is to get home to their family, as it should be. It's a hard way to live. I've never done it, but I have family who has. I will never disparage them, because I haven't experienced what they experience.

First off I agree the media are awful. Great care must be taken to find the sctual facts of the case because they'll pick and choose what to share to generate outrage. That said...

Lots of carefully applied logic going on here. For instance, you say cops are careful and that's why they don't get killed often, but don't you think loggers and a roofer are careful as well?

You say cops get killed in traffic stops "all the time". At the end of the day, this country has 650k cops and about 75 are intentionally killed each year. Roughly 2 cops in MS every 3 years if you adjust for population. And that includes way more than just traffic stops. Is that "all the time"? No. Now yes, ANY traffic stop COULD go south, but so could ANY trip to the grocery store. But the rates of getting shot at the grocery store are so low I don't get to claim that stress as an excuse to harm others out of fear. And cops shouldn't either, not for routine traffic stops. Remember Philando (SP?) Castile? A lawful concealed cary holder pulled over for a routine traffic violation. Was respectful to the officer and told him he was licensed to cary. Cop asked for his ID. He took a hand off the wheel and reached back for his wallet and the cop freaked out and shot him dead. That guy should have NEVER been a cop.

You say cops get "rigorous training", but that's actually the 2nd biggest problem with policing (after the lack of accountability/oversight): police do NOT recieve good training. In my state I could go to a 9 week police academy and be an officer in my city. 9 weeks is a joke to learn department policy, the laws I'll be enforcing, procedures for how to deal with different situations, how to use my firearm/taser/handcuffs/radio etc. Also, I can become a Sheriff Deputy with literally zero training or experience. In both cases, there's no state test, no license, and the continued training and qualifications vary wildly by region and are a joke in mine. In comparison, to do electrical work I have to pass a code test every 3 years. To cut hair, I have to take 2000h of training, pass a state test, and then take continued education and testing to maintain my license.

To clarify, I'm not anti cop. I'm anti "give humans unchecked power". Power corrupts, and the ability to abuse power attracts the worst candidates. Currently, police get Qualified Immunity, control the body cam footage for their department, investigate themselves, have extremely powerful unions, have no Govt regulation (such as licenses an officer can loose if they do something bad) and the local DA has to work with the local police every day, so they are hesitant to pursue legal action against a bad cop. AND, they are poorly trained. That is all a perfect recipe for "bad apples" and incompetent police work

I have nothing bit respect and thanks to the cops who are trying to uphold the laws and make society better. I have nothing but distain for those who use the power of the badge to abuse those without it. I'm saying the overall system is very bad at removing that 2nd group, and that causes the 1st group to catch undeserved hate. We need to revamp the policing system to fix this.

[PMDawg]

First off I agree the media are awful. Great care must be taken to find the sctual facts of the case because they'll pick and choose what to share to generate outrage. That said...

Lots of carefully applied logic going on here. For instance, you say cops are careful and that's why they don't get killed often, but don't you think loggers and a roofer are careful as well?

You say cops get killed in traffic stops "all the time". At the end of the day, this country has 650k cops and about 75 are intentionally killed each year. Roughly 2 cops in MS every 3 years if you adjust for population. And that includes way more than just traffic stops. Is that "all the time"? No. Now yes, ANY traffic stop COULD go south, but so could ANY trip to the grocery store. But the rates of getting shot at the grocery store are so low I don't get to claim that stress as an excuse to harm others out of fear. And cops shouldn't either, not for routine traffic stops. Remember Philando (SP?) Castile? A lawful concealed cary holder pulled over for a routine traffic violation. Was respectful to the officer and told him he was licensed to cary. Cop asked for his ID. He took a hand off the wheel and reached back for his wallet and the cop freaked out and shot him dead. That guy should have NEVER been a cop.

You say cops get "rigorous training", but that's actually the 2nd biggest problem with policing (after the lack of accountability/oversight): police do NOT recieve good training. In my state I could go to a 9 week police academy and be an officer in my city. 9 weeks is a joke to learn department policy, the laws I'll be enforcing, procedures for how to deal with different situations, how to use my firearm/taser/handcuffs/radio etc. Also, I can become a Sheriff Deputy with literally zero training or experience. In both cases, there's no state test, no license, and the continued training and qualifications vary wildly by region and are a joke in mine. In comparison, to do electrical work I have to pass a code test every 3 years. To cut hair, I have to take 2000h of training, pass a state test, and then take continued education and testing to maintain my license.

To clarify, I'm not anti cop. I'm anti "give humans unchecked power". Power corrupts, and the ability to abuse power attracts the worst candidates. Currently, police get Qualified Immunity, control the body cam footage for their department, investigate themselves, have extremely powerful unions, have no Govt regulation (such as licenses an officer can loose if they do something bad) and the local DA has to work with the local police every day, so they are hesitant to pursue legal action against a bad cop. AND, they are poorly trained. That is all a perfect recipe for "bad apples" and incompetent police work

I have nothing bit respect and thanks to the cops who are trying to uphold the laws and make society better. I have nothing but distain for those who use the power of the badge to abuse those without it. I'm saying the overall system is very bad at removing that 2nd group, and that causes the 1st group to catch undeserved hate. We need to revamp the policing system to fix this.

You've misconstrued some things I said.

I shouldn't have said "all the time", I'll give you that. It does happen, but it goes back to training and procedures keeping it from happening more often. They have partners, they stay in the safest positions, they're armed, they have bullet proof vests, etc. It also goes back to that "being on edge". They're trained to stay aware. They have a right to be on edge all the time. They have to be because they don't know what situation is dangerous and which one isn't. Another difference with those other professions you mention. There aren't a lot of surprises with roofing. Just don't fall off and you're good. But, most of them can't even be bothered to tie off. Like I said, I can hire 4 bums and start roofing tomorrow. I doubt it would be a really safe crew, but all I have to do is buy insurance.

I don't know what you're trying to argue with this "point" about stress. They don't have a right to be stressed? Just because you don't believe they should feel like they are constantly in danger of losing their life? Sorry, but many of them feel that way, and many of them have good reason to. They can't afford to let their guard down, because that's when they'll get hurt or killed. When the crap does hit the fan, they have a split second to make a decision, and that's generally when the training kicks in. That decision can dictate if an officer, a civilian, or a criminal dies. Hesitation can be disastrous. I'll give you this - so can overreaction. So I'm not excusing screw ups. They happen, and that's awful. I don't condone it or pretend it doesn't happen, but I do understand. When it happens it has to be dealt with. If an officer deserves punishment, they should be punished according to the situation. No question. Unfortunately, our media is so screwed up that these situations usually end up getting tried in the court of public opinion based on little to no facts (or even generated narratives). I'm sure we both agree this needs work on a lot of fronts.

The fact that you think 9 weeks of training is all they get tells me I don't need to debate this point with you. Yes, a short academy gets you in the door. Sorry, but no one is lining up for years of school/training BEFORE you get the job that pays you less than a teacher's salary even though you'll be putting your life on the line. Regardless, that academy gets you a foot patrol in a safe area or a desk job. You get an experienced partner or mentor, and you continue training until the day you retire. They are always training. At least my Dad and his coworkers always were, but what do I know?

And, no, I did not say cops don't get killed more often because they are more "careful" than loggers or roofers. I said they are better trained. They are also better equipped and more prepared. They also work in pairs and watch out for each other. I'm sure loggers are careful. I'm sure they do a lot of safety training. But it's not the same. I really don't even know what you're trying to argue here. You keep referring to some "stress" that allows cops to just kill people willy nilly all day. That's not the case. It's apples and oranges anyway. Trees, equipment, and falls are trying to kill loggers. Falls and heat stroke are trying to kill roofers. People are generally what's trying to kill cops. So for cops, if it goes sideways, they generally either kill or get killed. Loggers aren't packing heat so they can shoot a rogue tree or chainsaw. Roofers can't shoot their way out of a fall. I don't even get what you're trying to do here. That's why cops have the tougher job (of figuring out the situation). They are always in a different situation every minute of every day, conditions are constantly changing, AND they have to try to figure out what the people they are dealing with are thinking/intending. So, yes, they're facing a lot of stressors and stay on edge. It only makes sense. They have to be that way if they want to go home every day. A logger doesn't have to worry about what a tree is thinking. Honestly, what's probably the most dangerous thing on his job is his coworkers. So no, a roofer isn't going to be so scared of falling that he tries to shoot the ground and accidentally kills someone. I just can't get in your frame of mind here.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

You've misconstrued some things I said.

I shouldn't have said "all the time", I'll give you that. It does happen, but it goes back to training and procedures keeping it from happening more often. They have partners, they stay in the safest positions, they're armed, they have bullet proof vests, etc. It also goes back to that "being on edge". They're trained to stay aware. They have a right to be on edge all the time. They have to be because they don't know what situation is dangerous and which one isn't. Another difference with those other professions you mention. There aren't a lot of surprises with roofing. Just don't fall off and you're good. But, most of them can't even be bothered to tie off. Like I said, I can hire 4 bums and start roofing tomorrow. I doubt it would be a really safe crew, but all I have to do is buy insurance.

I don't know what you're trying to argue with this "point" about stress. They don't have a right to be stressed? Just because you don't believe they should feel like they are constantly in danger of losing their life? Sorry, but many of them feel that way, and many of them have good reason to. They can't afford to let their guard down, because that's when they'll get hurt or killed. When the crap does hit the fan, they have a split second to make a decision, and that's generally when the training kicks in. That decision can dictate if an officer, a civilian, or a criminal dies. Hesitation can be disastrous. I'll give you this - so can overreaction. So I'm not excusing screw ups. They happen, and that's awful. I don't condone it or pretend it doesn't happen, but I do understand. When it happens it has to be dealt with. If an officer deserves punishment, they should be punished according to the situation. No question. Unfortunately, our media is so screwed up that these situations usually end up getting tried in the court of public opinion based on little to no facts (or even generated narratives). I'm sure we both agree this needs work on a lot of fronts.

The fact that you think 9 weeks of training is all they get tells me I don't need to debate this point with you. Yes, a short academy gets you in the door. Sorry, but no one is lining up for years of school/training BEFORE you get the job that pays you less than a teacher's salary even though you'll be putting your life on the line. Regardless, that academy gets you a foot patrol in a safe area or a desk job. You get an experienced partner or mentor, and you continue training until the day you retire. They are always training. At least my Dad and his coworkers always were, but what do I know?

And, no, I did not say cops don't get killed more often because they are more "careful" than loggers or roofers. I said they are better trained. They are also better equipped and more prepared. They also work in pairs and watch out for each other. I'm sure loggers are careful. I'm sure they do a lot of safety training. But it's not the same. I really don't even know what you're trying to argue here. You keep referring to some "stress" that allows cops to just kill people willy nilly all day. That's not the case. It's apples and oranges anyway. Trees, equipment, and falls are trying to kill loggers. Falls and heat stroke are trying to kill roofers. People are generally what's trying to kill cops. So for cops, if it goes sideways, they generally either kill or get killed. Loggers aren't packing heat so they can shoot a rogue tree or chainsaw. Roofers can't shoot their way out of a fall. I don't even get what you're trying to do here. That's why cops have the tougher job (of figuring out the situation). They are always in a different situation every minute of every day, conditions are constantly changing, AND they have to try to figure out what the people they are dealing with are thinking/intending. So, yes, they're facing a lot of stressors and stay on edge. It only makes sense. They have to be that way if they want to go home every day. A logger doesn't have to worry about what a tree is thinking. Honestly, what's probably the most dangerous thing on his job is his coworkers. So no, a roofer isn't going to be so scared of falling that he tries to shoot the ground and accidentally kills someone. I just can't get in your frame of mind here.

A lot of words to not address what the stats and facts say.

You say there's all this training for cops, and maybe your dad's department did. But you can't deny the facts that that varies by locality, and it's not even a state wide standard. You also can't deny that I could be patrolling the street with a gun and a badge as a police officer woth 9 weeks of training, or do the same as a Deputy sheriff with 0 weeks of training. That's a problem, even if I was going to recieve adequate training in the future (I would not in my area).

When it comes to "stress" and how "on edge" officers are, I bring up the fact being a cop is unlikely to get you killed because that "fear for my life" is used to justify all kinds of bad decisions made by cops. My point is not to say cops have an easy job, they dont- it was the bring some perspective on how dangerous it actually is, and this how fearful a cop is justified in being. You're doing 18D underwater chess games of logic to justify cops being on edge, but to also say someone working an actual dangerous job isn't on edge. At the end of the day, if a cop is too jumpy to evaluate the situation before he shoots, he shouldn't be a cop. Agree on that?

I also brought up our lack of licensing, you didn't mention it. Do you agree we should have licensing for cops so bad ones can't just be rehired the next town over?

I also brought up the lack of accountability and how it leads to "bad apples". Do you agree with the problems I mentioned? If not, could you break down why you disagree?