Barbay Recruiting

[Reason2succeed]

Some of you have voiced your disbelief in Barbay translating to the SEC at State. Well, obviously the offensive transfers we have picked up do not agree with you. These guys believe in this offense.

Mike Wright - First and foremost Barbay lures an SEC QB who knows that he will not start this year. Why? Obviously Wright trusts that Barbay will put him in positions that will allow him to shine even more than he would have at Vandy. Rather than go somewhere where he was assured the starting job Wright came here to play behind Will Rogers.

Freddie Roberson - We needed to replace RaRa. He thinks he can be that guy. He probably liked the deep passes and the coverages that he will likely see because of the running game and the eye candy that Barbay shows.

Keyvonne Lee - Coming from Penn State I am sure he had other suitors. He knows he will not start over Woody but still chose to come here. He obviously saw that Barbay likes to play a lot of RBs and keep them all fresh into the 4th quarter. He must have liked the scheme as well. This guy must believe that there is a chance that he can shine here even behind Woody and make his NFL dreams a reality.

Ryan Goede - With his pedigree coming from Georgia and the understandable nature of why he had not seen the field Goede chose to come play in this offense. It helped that the cupboard was completely bare but I doubt that Goede was afraid of competing.

Spivey - Same as Goede. This guy sees the cupboard is bare but he also sees what Barbay has done with TEs and wants to come back home.

Ziko Traore - He was the top rated player left in the portal. I am sure he was getting offers from everyone. However, Barbay and Bump are able to convince him that he will be used the way he wants to be used in this offense. Instead of playing for Coach Prime which would have placed a lot of eyes on him he opted for State. Obviously, he sees the way that WRs are used in the Barbay offense and likes it.

[Thick]

You never know until you know. It looks good on paper, hopefully it shows on the field. Good post

[bulldawg28]

It's open competition. None of our coaches are loyal to a position. That's why they are transferring here.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I think the HS recruiting says more. We're getting good OL prospects AND still have our QB AND have great WRs. Still need a RB but it's clear he's selling our offense well to every position

[msu15]

I think the HS recruiting says more.

100% agree

[Reason2succeed]

I think the HS recruiting says more. We're getting good OL prospects AND still have our QB AND have great WRs. Still need a RB but it's clear he's selling our offense well to every position

I agree but the reason I opted to talk about transfers is because these transfers ought to be even more knowledgeable having been in a college program before and having gone through the recruiting process before. You might be able to trick a HS kid but the transfers should be making better informed decisions. They

[Lord McBuckethead]

Will Rogers doesn?t have the arm talent to deliver a deep route. I hope he surprises me, but it became very clear last year around week 3 that he couldn?t do it.

[viverlibre]

Will Rogers doesn?t have the arm talent to deliver a deep route. I hope he surprises me, but it became very clear last year around week 3 that he couldn?t do it.

I think we all know he doesn't have a strong arm, but he made a nice deep throw or two in the spring game that gives a little hope.

[msu15]

Will Rogers doesn?t have the arm talent to deliver a deep route. I hope he surprises me, but it became very clear last year around week 3 that he couldn?t do it.

He can throw it deep, he just doesn't have the strength to make it a bullet pass. His deep ball has to be a balloon to where the receiver beats the CB and there is no safety help over the top.

[Gutter Cobreh]

He can throw it deep, he just doesn't have the strength to make it a bullet pass. His deep ball has to be a balloon to where the receiver beats the CB and there is no safety help over the top.

Exactly! A balanced offense will greatly increase the opportunity for this to happen, so I imagine we will see more big plays this year than we had under Leach.

[msu15]

Exactly! A balanced offense will greatly increase the opportunity for this to happen, so I imagine we will see more big plays this year than we had under Leach.

Absolutely. Forcing the defense to put 8 guys in the box will benefit Will tremendously.

[viverlibre]

Absolutely. Forcing the defense to put 8 guys in the box will benefit Will tremendously.

As long as Will can get rid of the ball quickly, he should do well in the new offense.

[Reason2succeed]

If I had to choose I would take accuracy over a strong arm every day of the week. Obviously, Mike Leach would too. I think the concern about his arm strength is greatly overrated because everyone played two high safeties on us or drop eight.

[BigDawg81]

Will Rogers doesn?t have the arm talent to deliver a deep route. I hope he surprises me, but it became very clear last year around week 3 that he couldn?t do it. Haha. Did you watch the spring game?

[R2Dawg]

Haha. Did you watch the spring game?

We didn't show a lot but we did show some things that should scare opposing Ds. A deep ball threat and some gashing speed at the corner running out of a spread/WR formation. Yikes. A lot tougher assignment that defending the 5 yard route and dump down every down previously.

[Todd4State]

If I had to choose I would take accuracy over a strong arm every day of the week. Obviously, Mike Leach would too. I think the concern about his arm strength is greatly overrated because everyone played two high safeties on us or drop eight.

Our receivers last year were the main reason we couldn't throw deep. Rara was lazy. Tulu was playing out of position. Robinson emerged during the bowl. Austin Williams and Rufus Harvey were basically possession receivers.

There are places to throw deep on two high coverage. Like a post. Even in drop 8 you can throw deep in certain instances. Makai Polk did it all the time.

[Todd4State]

Absolutely. Forcing the defense to put 8 guys in the box will benefit Will tremendously.

If we're truly balanced I doubt we'll see a lot of 8 guys in the box.

[TrapGame]

Absolutely. Forcing the defense to put 8 guys in the box will benefit Will tremendously.

This.

This offense is going to be Will's best friend.

[msu15]

If we're truly balanced I doubt we'll see a lot of 8 guys in the box.

Better than never seeing it at all

[Todd4State]

Better than never seeing it at all

Ummm...OK?

I mean if DC's want to go 8 in the box against us with a senior QB among the all time passing leaders in SEC history and our improved WR's who are probably the most talented I've seen in my fan lifetime then by all means I hope they are that stupid.

But it's not going to be that cut and dried like some of our fans apparently think it's going to be.

Will is going to see a lot of different looks and coverages. Probably a lot of blitzes from different spots and a variety of zone coverages behind it. How he and our offensive line adjust to that is going to be a big factor in how good we are next year.

[Westdawg]

If I?m a DC, I?m coming after Will from every angle possible. Make him beat me on the back end. Will and the WR corp will have to prove that they can beat or get behind coverage before I?d let up and even then I?m bringing zone blitz pressure if down/distance allow it. Every DC knows we don?t have a viable backup atm, so they are gonna still have their ears pinned back on us

[viverlibre]

If I?m a DC, I?m coming after Will from every angle possible. Make him beat me on the back end. Will and the WR corp will have to prove that they can beat or get behind coverage before I?d let up and even then I?m bringing zone blitz pressure if down/distance allow it. Every DC knows we don?t have a viable backup atm, so they are gonna still have their ears pinned back on us

Barbay's not married to throwing it every down, I'd suspect he'll keep defenses honest with a healthy dose of running the ball.

[TrapGame]

If I?m a DC, I?m coming after Will from every angle possible. Make him beat me on the back end. Will and the WR corp will have to prove that they can beat or get behind coverage before I?d let up and even then I?m bringing zone blitz pressure if down/distance allow it. Every DC knows we don?t have a viable backup atm, so they are gonna still have their ears pinned back on us


Barbay's not married to throwing it everyday, I'd suspect he'll keep defense's honest with a healthy dose of running the ball.

We are going to have a pretty balanced offense.

I like Will's Media Days comments about being comfortable with offense and how much better it is now since the spring game.

[coachnorm]

Our receivers last year were the main reason we couldn't throw deep. Rara was lazy. Tulu was playing out of position. Robinson emerged during the bowl. Austin Williams and Rufus Harvey were basically possession receivers.

There are places to throw deep on two high coverage. Like a post. Even in drop 8 you can throw deep in certain instances. Makai Polk did it all the time.

While talking about the passing game you can discuss whether the QB has a strong arm for the deep ball or is QB accurate. This is all well and good but another significant factor has to be added into the discussion. I have personally observed high school coaches stay so compliant to schemes that no match-up technique was introduced into their program. These what I call scrub coaches actually bench talent because the talent is not scheme compliant.

Playing the receiver position in the NFL, College, and elite high school is more than just being scheme compliant, counting steps, and geometric breaks. Receivers have to run patterns based on defenders leverage in match-up, not step counting. FYI, leverage is just a position advantage and a receiver has to know if he has been leveraged and personally decide how to correct his dilemma at the moment. This individual decision making has to happen regardless if the QB is strong armed or not.

I personally believe that Mississippi State was the last LEGACY Air Raid Offense in major college football under CML. Now that the LEGACY AR is in the rear-view mirror, our receivers should be better coached with match-up content. This also means that Will Rogers will not have an excuse to not get rid of the ball under the guise of scheme compliance.

As for last years receivers, I just can not get a take on them because they appeared to be scheme participants and not players because of their environment. BTW, RaRa would not appear as lazy in another program. Georgia appears to have seen things as I do about RaRa?

[Schultzy]

With max protect he can throw it down far enough…he’s never had enough time time to throw deep…now that we’re running more and TE sets we will have more big plays.

[Todd4State]

Barbay's not married to throwing it every down, I'd suspect he'll keep defenses honest with a healthy dose of running the ball.

IF we can run it.

A lot of fans assume that just because we hand it off it will work.

[Todd4State]

While talking about the passing game you can discuss whether the QB has a strong arm for the deep ball or is QB accurate. This is all well and good but another significant factor has to be added into the discussion. I have personally observed high school coaches stay so compliant to schemes that no match-up technique was introduced into their program. These what I call scrub coaches actually bench talent because the talent is not scheme compliant.

Playing the receiver position in the NFL, College, and elite high school is more than just being scheme compliant, counting steps, and geometric breaks. Receivers have to run patterns based on defenders leverage in match-up, not step counting. FYI, leverage is just a position advantage and a receiver has to know if he has been leveraged and personally decide how to correct his dilemma at the moment. This individual decision making has to happen regardless if the QB is strong armed or not.

I personally believe that Mississippi State was the last LEGACY Air Raid Offense in major college football under CML. Now that the LEGACY AR is in the rear-view mirror, our receivers should be better coached with match-up content. This also means that Will Rogers will not have an excuse to not get rid of the ball under the guise of scheme compliance.

As for last years receivers, I just can not get a take on them because they appeared to be scheme participants and not players because of their environment. BTW, RaRa would not appear as lazy in another program. Georgia appears to have seen things as I do about RaRa?

The Air Raid wasn't quite that rigid. Like any offense really there were adjustments that receivers made based on leverage and coverage. The whole goal was essentially to find open grass. There is no way to do that if the scheme was that rigid- for example we would have had receivers running into LB's and NB's in zone coverage if the scheme didn't allow for adjustments where the receiver would set up in the soft spots of the zone. We often times had receivers standing by themselves- they're not going to get anymore open than that.

Beating defenders one on one requires the receiver to be more talented than the CB. That's not a problem for us OOC or against and most of the lower level SEC teams. Against Alabama, Georgia, and LSU- then yes. That goes back to recruiting more than anything.

Throwing deep wasn't as much of an issue when Makai Polk was with us. RaRa? LOL. No one is sad that he is gone. We actually came out good on that end because he ended up with some legal problems that ended being Georgia's problem not ours. He's talented. He flashed at times. Just wasn't consistent. If he's not running out the routes like he should- not because of not adjusting but because of lack of effort Will isn't going to trust him. I can't blame him. I don't know how much he'll play at Georgia but I doubt it's a lot. Who is going to win a match up between a defender and a guy not running out the route and fighting for the ball? The defense every single time.

The other big issue we had was our slot guys were possession guys and weren't the best at making plays in space. They were good at moving the sticks 10-15 yards at a time. Should have moved Tulu to slot last year for that very reason. He doesn't fit as well on the outside IMO either. He had a height disadvantage that caused him some problems at times on deep balls. He can catch a short pass and make safeties and LB's miss though. Even more dangerous in a soft spot in zone coverage with defenders several yards away from him. Austin Williams might catch a ball for 12 yards. Tulu might make the same catch against the same coverage and take it 20....or more.

[SpaceBully]

Will we go with a 2 TE set on some plays (probably power running plays). We have some good TEs on the roster and another one coming in with this year's class. Could use one TE as another OL for blocking and the other could either block or run a pass route. Or maybe both will act like they're blocking, but run pass routes. Sounds like Barbay will have all kinds of options to involve the many TE's we have.

[TrapGame]

IF we can run it.

A lot of fans assume that just because we hand it off it will work.

If App State can run the ball, so can we.

[coachnorm]

The Air Raid wasn't quite that rigid. Like any offense really there were adjustments that receivers made based on leverage and coverage. The whole goal was essentially to find open grass. There is no way to do that if the scheme was that rigid- for example we would have had receivers running into LB's and NB's in zone coverage if the scheme didn't allow for adjustments where the receiver would set up in the soft spots of the zone. We often times had receivers standing by themselves- they're not going to get anymore open than that.


All of what you have stated has been stated ad-nauseum within the coaching community. Concepts that originated in the LEGACY AR offense still exist in football but there is one verifiable fact that still exist and that is the LEGACY AR does not exist in FBS College Football and NFL since the death of CML. ALL THE COACHES have rejected LEGACY AR. Even upper tiered high school football coaches fear for their employment status if they entertain the idea of installing LEGACY AR. Are they all stupid?

LEGACY AR is based on strict compliance to its principals that most every coach in America knows about. Sure, there are little adjustment within LEGACY but they are not enough thus LEGACY is a dead offense currently. You have stated that receivers had been open and not thrown too. Mjoelner34 has also told me the same. I have seen it myself at Miss St games also. So why do receivers get open at times and Rogers throws check downs or takes a sack or fumbles? My answer is scheme compliance distractions at Miss St that opponents do not have.

[TrapGame]

All of what you have stated has been stated ad-nauseum within the coaching community. Concepts that originated in the LEGACY AR offense still exist in football but there is one verifiable fact that still exist and that is the LEGACY AR does not exist in FBS College Football and NFL since the death of CML. ALL THE COACHES have rejected LEGACY AR. Even upper tiered high school football coaches fear for their employment status if they entertain the idea of installing LEGACY AR. Are they all stupid?

LEGACY AR is based on strict compliance to its principals that most every coach in America knows about. Sure, there are little adjustment within LEGACY but they are not enough thus LEGACY is a dead offense currently. You have stated that receivers had been open and not thrown too. Mjoelner34 has also told me the same. I have seen it myself at Miss St games also. So why do receivers get open at times and Rogers throws check downs or takes a sack or fumbles? My answer is scheme compliance distractions at Miss St that opponents do not have.

Could you expand on this coach?

[Captain Falcon]

IF we can run it.

A lot of fans assume that just because we hand it off it will work.

We have a very experienced OL and good backs. It will be a big disappointment if we aren?t at least a decent rushing team.

[R2Dawg]

IF we can run it.

A lot of fans assume that just because we hand it off it will work.

True however we ran it in spring game fine and most see our D are very good. We were OK last year when we wanted to run the ball on YPC.

[Goldendawg]

If I?m a DC, I?m coming after Will from every angle possible. Make him beat me on the back end. Will and the WR corp will have to prove that they can beat or get behind coverage before I?d let up and even then I?m bringing zone blitz pressure if down/distance allow it. Every DC knows we don?t have a viable backup atm, so they are gonna still have their ears pinned back on us

They had their ears pinned back every down when we were in the air raid throwing about 60 times a game. Maybe they will actually have to respect the run more now. Hail State!

[coachnorm]

Could you expand on this coach?

I will give some brief content in regards to match-up versus scheme compliance. I will reference some SEC history for a start. I will start with Tennessee putting 52 on Alabama. When Nick Saban was asked what happened, in press conference, he stated that they could not cover the receivers. Saban said NOTHING about a great Tennessee game plan or scheme. Simply, Tennessee receivers dealt with Alabama defenders on a one-to-one basis, not a scheme versus scheme basis. Even when Alabama defenders were mere inches away from Tennessee receivers, the receivers won their spots and match-ups. The same scenario happened when Ole Miss beat Alabama 2 out of 3 times in past years. Both Tennessee and Ole Miss quarterbacks were not progression reading the Alabama defense because both organizations knew that would be suicidal because progression reads would take too much time. In short both Tennessee and Ole Miss refused to get in a suicidal scheme compliance trap.

For Ole Miss to achieve 2 out of 3 from Alabama, that organization had to practice something other than scheme compliance, they emphasized match-ups which requires totally different skill sets. The same could apply for Tennessee. Schematically, I would grade Ole Miss and Tennessee as C minus to D plus with scheme execution. I give them an A for match-up. If those programs over budgeted their practice capital on scheme compliance at the expense of developing match-up skills they would look as bad as us against Alabama. They would be distracted with it as a business plan.

[Todd4State]

All of what you have stated has been stated ad-nauseum within the coaching community. Concepts that originated in the LEGACY AR offense still exist in football but there is one verifiable fact that still exist and that is the LEGACY AR does not exist in FBS College Football and NFL since the death of CML. ALL THE COACHES have rejected LEGACY AR. Even upper tiered high school football coaches fear for their employment status if they entertain the idea of installing LEGACY AR. Are they all stupid?

LEGACY AR is based on strict compliance to its principals that most every coach in America knows about. Sure, there are little adjustment within LEGACY but they are not enough thus LEGACY is a dead offense currently. You have stated that receivers had been open and not thrown too. Mjoelner34 has also told me the same. I have seen it myself at Miss St games also. So why do receivers get open at times and Rogers throws check downs or takes a sack or fumbles? My answer is scheme compliance distractions at Miss St that opponents do not have.

Here's the reality of schemes and this is true whether you are talking about the Air Raid, the West Coast offense, Air Coryell, or Wishbone even. Doesn't matter. Each scheme is run by a human being. And therefore each coach has an individual preferences and what really happens is the coaches will run a core scheme but then they'll add their spin to it or add something that they like. No coach runs completely the same scheme as another coach.

For example- Bill Walsh's offense. He had his core West Coast offense with flat backs and no shot gun and whatever else. He retires. The 49ers make Mike Holmgren the OC. He keeps running the same system but adds some bunch formations here and there. Mike Shanahan comes along and runs the same core offense but adds more zone running schemes. Coaches add the shotgun to the West Coast offense. And now the West Coast offense has evolved into whatever Kyle Shanahan, Andy Reid, and Mike McCarthy have now.

Same thing with the Air Raid. Leach had his core scheme. His protege's add their spin to it. Some are like "hey let's add some read option to it." Or whatever. And it's essentially evolved into what Western Kentucky did last year and what Washington State will do this year and Texas Tech and etc. Really no different than any other famous scheme.

So it's not about rejecting anything. It's quite the opposite actually. It's "Oh I really like this system. But I also like this so why not add this to what Leach is doing with Leach's offense as the core scheme?" That's why the scheme has concepts in virtually every offense now.

To answer your question about Will and check downs- I think Will made some bad reads at times. There were definitely times where Will had a receiver open and he just missed it. Leach himself would say "If the receiver is open throw it to him." You're assuming that the players are always doing what they are coached to do and that's not the case at any level really.

It sounds to me like you're making a lot of assumptions here about winning man to man match ups. For that to happen the receivers have to win the match up. If not- it's a turnover. If you think that Caleb Ducking over whoever Alabama has is the answer to winning- well OK. There are certainly times when WR's win match ups and there are times to go for that. But it's not as foolproof as you are making it sound. In your example Ole Miss at the time had a future first round pick WR and 2-3 other four star guys and I'm sure Tennessee also has several four star guys whereas we have mostly been going at it with three star guys which is changing. That's been more about previous coaches being extremely run heavy, lazy WR coaches like Billy Gonzalez and our boosters not being organized. So the one on one match up works if you have a guy of equal or better talent which has not always been the case with us. Progression reads work fine. Man/match up reads work fine too. It's just different ways of doing things and most offense including the Air Raid have those opportunities built in.

[Todd4State]

They had their ears pinned back every down when we were in the air raid throwing about 60 times a game. Maybe they will actually have to respect the run more now. Hail State!

What? They were usually rushing three guys and playing zone.

[Todd4State]

True however we ran it in spring game fine and most see our D are very good. We were OK last year when we wanted to run the ball on YPC.

It's very different when you're running against a team rushing 3-4 guys vs. a team putting 6-7 in the box and they're doing different things up front.

I'm not saying no way we won't be able to run the ball but it's going to be an adjustment.

With our personnel and Barbay claiming that he will scheme to our strengths we should be leaning more on Will and our receivers. We have one of the best QB's in SEC history and several really good receivers who can make plays like Tulu, Zavion, Robinson, and Roberson. Also Goede is a four star TE. Woody is a good RB and a good player but we're just deeper at WR.

[QuadrupleOption]

Will Rogers doesn?t have the arm talent to deliver a deep route. I hope he surprises me, but it became very clear last year around week 3 that he couldn?t do it.

Rogers is the most talented passer we've had since Dak. He has plenty of arm talent to make any throw required of him in this system or any other.

[NWADAWG]

It's very different when you're running against a team rushing 3-4 guys vs. a team putting 6-7 in the box and they're doing different things up front.

I'm not saying no way we won't be able to run the ball but it's going to be an adjustment.

With our personnel and Barbay claiming that he will scheme to our strengths we should be leaning more on Will and our receivers. We have one of the best QB's in SEC history and several really good receivers who can make plays like Tulu, Zavion, Robinson, and Roberson. Also Goede is a four star TE. Woody is a good RB and a good player but we're just deeper at WR.

As much as the swing pass has been bashed in the air raid, swing passes, screens, etc. will look really different when D's are having to play honest. Mix in some of the jet sweeps and motions to hold linebackers (instead of 8 playing close and looking to jump short routes) and there's big opportunity. Having a back that can catch well will have an impact.

[coachnorm]

It sounds to me like you're making a lot of assumptions here about winning man to man match ups. For that to happen the receivers have to win the match up. If not- it's a turnover. If you think that Caleb Ducking over whoever Alabama has is the answer to winning- well OK. There are certainly times when WR's win match ups and there are times to go for that. But it's not as foolproof as you are making it sound. In your example Ole Miss at the time had a future first round pick WR and 2-3 other four star guys and I'm sure Tennessee also has several four star guys whereas we have mostly been going at it with three star guys which is changing. That's been more about previous coaches being extremely run heavy, lazy WR coaches like Billy Gonzalez and our boosters not being organized. So the one on one match up works if you have a guy of equal or better talent which has not always been the case with us. Progression reads work fine. Man/match up reads work fine too. It's just different ways of doing things and most offense including the Air Raid have those opportunities built in.[/QUOTE]

Something that is etched in stone when we discuss Mississippi St., Tennessee, and Ole Miss is neither team could protect the QB against the Alabama front 6 or 7 of late. It was understood by Ole Miss and Tennessee that they could not progression read the Alabama defense and they brought something to the table as I described in the past. Miss St. tried to scheme against Alabama with read progressions and check downs that all of America knows CML will coach up. The end game is Miss St. brought nothing of value against Alabama when Ole Miss and Tennessee did. CML made a conscious decision to not develop a match-up passing game in favor of exhausting practice capital for scheme compliance. Ole Miss and Tennessee knew that they better not even think of trying to out scheme Saban, they had alternatives.

[Bothrops]

Our RB corp is not last in the West.