Arnett

[preachermatt83]

Guys, we need to be patient with this guy. He?s got something different about him. Kids would run through a brick wall for him and the people I?ve heard from said this staff, starting with arnett, has a fresh approach to recruiting that kids are loving. And we are getting better every day with our nil. People whining about selmon are clueless. He?s already made a massive impact in nil and many other areas

[confucius say]

I think most agree on arnett.

My problem with selmon is that it has taken 6 months to allocate a portion of BC personnel to strictly fundraising for NIL. That should have been Bart's only job from day 1 selmon was hired

[EdwardDrayton]

I think most agree on arnett.

My problem with selmon is that it has taken 6 months to allocate a portion of BC personnel to strictly fundraising for NIL. That should have been Bart's only job from day 1 selmon was hired

I didn't think the school can be involved with NIL.

[BigDawg81]

I didn't think the school can be involved with NIL.They can now

[confucius say]

I didn't think the school can be involved with NIL.

The ncaa changed its rules in January to allow schools to direct donors to give to NIL collectives. Selmon has been dragging his feet

[LibraryDawg]

It was my understanding that the bulldog club was being downsized significantly and they were outsourcing most all of the fundraising. I know personally of one lady that lost her job over there because of it.

[Reason2succeed]

Back to the original topic, I agree. Arnett has IT. I am excited to see what these young hungry coordinators are going to do in the SEC as well.

Even if we don?t have the year I am expecting I will still have confidence that Arnett can recruit and create culture to succeed here.

[TrapGame]

Arnett is a dude. I'd love for him to flip some of the guys going out of state. That would be very impressive.

[ZedFedder]

Arnett is a dude. I'd love for him to flip some of the guys going out of state. That would be very impressive.

It won?t surprise me at all. We won?t get them all, but I?m hoping for at least 2-3.

[Reason2succeed]

It won?t surprise me at all. We won?t get them all, but I?m hoping for at least 2-3.

I would keep recruiting everyone but especially anyone committed to Florida. Napier might not make it through the season.

[gtowndawg]

Arnett seems like a man of few words but this week one of the things he did say was how important it was to give to the NIL.

[BulldogDX55]

The ncaa changed its rules in January to allow schools to direct donors to give to NIL collectives. Selmon has been dragging his feet

He got the job halfway through January. Do you think he could just snap his fingers and get it done the moment it was official? Give the man a minute to move into his office, get his staff together, institute his general plan, and meet everyone.

[confucius say]

He got the job halfway through January. Do you think he could just snap his fingers and get it done the moment it was official? Give the man a minute to move into his office, get his staff together, institute his general plan, and meet everyone.

Yes, I do. That's his job. You don't get 6 months to meet everyone when you take over as CEO of a 100 million dollar company who is paid the way he is. Especially when people are begging you for NIL personnel and resources. It's a Day 1 job.

It appears he finally is coming around to allocating personnel to fundraise for BI, but we've lost the last 6 months and failed to grow our monthly/quarterly BI membership despite an upset egg bowl win, bowl win, and NCAA tourney appearance.

[TheLostDawg]

He got the job halfway through January. Do you think he could just snap his fingers and get it done the moment it was official? Give the man a minute to move into his office, get his staff together, institute his general plan, and meet everyone.

Cohen was lazy. Just hired a company to deal with nil and from what I remember reading I think we got burned at the beginning because of it. Selmon seems to be bringing in people. I agree with whoever said give up to six months to let him see who we have, good they are, and what we have and are lacking. Well is about to be 6 months and he's making moves now. Wasn't sure about how he handled the Lemonis situation but seems like we went after a top pitching coach and got him. Excited to see how we do. I think Rhett really screwed up by leaving. Could have potentially learned a lot from this guy instead of following a dud AD in Cohen.

[Cooterpoot]

I've already said this but will again.
The average fan is not the heavy lifter for NIL. Never were intended to be. It's more on businesses and big boosters. The average fan is not going to make a dent in NIL. We've hired someone to be involved and head up NIL. BI is getting additional help as well. Give what you can. But don't let people shame you because you can't afford it. You were never the focus of NIL. The average fan can barely afford season tickets. The $10 a month thing is reasonable but that's a small piece.

[Cooterpoot]

Cohen was lazy. Just hired a company to deal with nil and from what I remember reading I think we got burned at the beginning because of it. Selmon seems to be bringing in people. I agree with whoever said give up to six months to let him see who we have, good they are, and what we have and are lacking. Well is about to be 6 months and he's making moves now. Wasn't sure about how he handled the Lemonis situation but seems like we went after a top pitching coach and got him. Excited to see how we do. I think Rhett really screwed up by leaving. Could have potentially learned a lot from this guy instead of following a dud AD in Cohen.

Rhett lol. Glad he left.

[confucius say]

I've already said this but will again.
The average fan is not the heavy lifter for NIL. Never were intended to be. It's more on businesses and big boosters. The average fan is not going to make a dent in NIL. We've hired someone to be involved and head up NIL. BI is getting additional help as well. Give what you can. But don't let people shame you because you can't afford it. You were never the focus of NIL. The average fan can barely afford season tickets. The $10 a month thing is reasonable but that's a small piece.

I agree on the original intent but disagree that's where we are now. We have 14k bulldog club members and less than 1400 BI members. OM has over double that. If we just had 5k monthly BI members giving $50 a month (the average giver gives more than that actually) then that's 3 million yearly before even getting any large donations. We can be okay with 4-5 million yearly. If we want to get players, we have to do our part, and there's no reason everybody can't give at least $10 a month.

We can't rely on the big donor and business only model. We are the smallest fanbase in the league minus Vandy. We will never have the amount of big donors other schools have. Plus you can't keep going back to the same donors over and over again. The message needs to be everybody do your part.

[BulldogDX55]

Yes, I do. That's his job. You don't get 6 months to meet everyone when you take over as CEO of a 100 million dollar company who is paid the way he is. Especially when people are begging you for NIL personnel and resources. It's a Day 1 job.

It appears he finally is coming around to allocating personnel to fundraise for BI, but we've lost the last 6 months and failed to grow our monthly/quarterly BI membership despite an upset egg bowl win, bowl win, and NCAA tourney appearance.

Gotcha, so you have major university athletic director experience and know exactly what the timeline should be for everything to get done. I'll defer to you then, boss!

[gtowndawg]

I agree on the original intent but disagree that's where we are now. We have 14k bulldog club members and less than 1400 BI members. OM has I've double that. If we just had 5k monthly BI members giving $50 a month (the average giver gives more than that actually) then that's 3 million yearly before even getting any large donations. We can be okay with 4-5 million yearly. If we want to get players, we have to do our part, and there's no reason everybody can't give at least $10 a month.

We can't rely on the big donor and business was model. We are the smallest fanbase in the league minus Vandy. We will never have the amount of big donors other schools have. Plus you can't keep going back to the same donors over and over again. The message needs to be everybody do your part.

Totally agree. $10 a month - just start with that. That's less than a McDonald's combo!

[Cooterpoot]

I agree on the original intent but disagree that's where we are now. We have 14k bulldog club members and less than 1400 BI members. OM has I've double that. If we just had 5k monthly BI members giving $50 a month (the average giver gives more than that actually) then that's 3 million yearly before even getting any large donations. We can be okay with 4-5 million yearly. If we want to get players, we have to do our part, and there's no reason everybody can't give at least $10 a month.

We can't rely on the big donor and business was model. We are the smallest fanbase in the league minus Vandy. We will never have the amount of big donors other schools have. Plus you can't keep going back to the same donors over and over again. The message needs to be everybody do your part.

Bulldog Club is a little less than that $10 per month. For many that's an either/or. The fans carrying the weight isn't going to happen. It's not happening anywhere. It's about boosters and business. The smallest fan base argumenet is exactly why we as fans cannot and will not carry the weight of the NIL money. We'd be so far behind everyone if our fan base was our primary support. We're only behind in football. The $10 people put up is going to specific sports. Says a lot about our fans and we've got to get the big money for football somewhere else.
I'm not saying not to contribute. I'm saying if that's our business model, we're screwed.

[HailState2008]

I think most agree on arnett.

My problem with selmon is that it has taken 6 months to allocate a portion of BC personnel to strictly fundraising for NIL. That should have been Bart's only job from day 1 selmon was hired

Obviously, you?ve never been in a leadership position. You don?t come in and start making/demanding moves but rather start by feeling out the environment to lay down a foundation. Especially with a department like State athletics that has a bunch of tenured/spoiled people that need to be phased out slowly or the department could fall apart without proper planning.

[confucius say]

Bulldog Club is a little less than that $10 per month. For many that's an either/or. The fans carrying the weight isn't going to happen. It's not happening anywhere. It's about boosters and business. The smallest fan base argumenet is exactly why we as fans cannot and will not carry the weight of the NIL money. We'd be so far behind everyone if our fan base was our primary support. We're only behind in football. The $10 people put up is going to specific sports. Says a lot about our fans and we've got to get the big money for football somewhere else.
I'm not saying not to contribute. I'm saying if that's our business model, we're screwed.

We're also screwed if our business model is only business and big boosters. That's why we're so far behind in football now (you're right, we are much better off in basketball and baseball and that does say something).

Honestly, we need it all. We're a small fanbase so we need the businesses, big boosters, and fans. If we targeted common people and asked them to give 10-20-50-100 dollars a month, they would. And it would generate millions.

And If somebody only has $10 a month to give, that needs to be encouraged to go to BI, not bulldog club. We're about to get an influx of millions from the new TV deal that will easily cover a 2 million dollar loss that the bulldog club would take by steering 2 million away from it and to BI. As our coaches have said, we need players, not new facilities.

[confucius say]

Obviously, you?ve never been in a leadership position. You don?t come in and start making/demanding moves but rather start by feeling out the environment to lay down a foundation. Especially with a department like State athletics that has a bunch of tenured/spoiled people that need to be phased out slowly or the department could fall apart without proper planning.

If you take over a good situation, sure. But not when you take over a dumpster fire, which our NIL situation was when Cohen left. You don't take over a 100 million dollar annual company and not address for 6 months the dumpster fire that is your most important department.

Again, things are finally moving in the right direction but it shouldn't take 6 months to get there when everybody in the dumpster fire was telling you what was needed. I like Selmon and think he can do good here. Just got to be a little more aggressive, which seems to be coming.

[Extendedcab]

We're also screwed if our business model is only business and big boosters. That's why we're so far behind in football now (you're right, we are much better off in basketball and baseball and that does say something).

Honestly, we need it all. We're a small fanbase so we need the businesses, big boosters, and fans. If we targeted common people and asked them to give 10-20-50-100 dollars a month, they would. And it would generate millions.

And If somebody only has $10 a month to give, that needs to be encouraged to go to BI, not bulldog club. We're about to get an influx of millions from the new TV deal that will easily cover a 2 million dollar loss that the bulldog club would take by steering 2 million away from it and to BI. As our coaches have said, we need players, not new facilities.

I hate to disagree but the whole NIL movement has turned a lot of the common people, like me, off! We do not want to see amateur college athletics turn into a semi-pro league or maybe even a full fledged pro league. I'm afraid college athletics is ruined for good. I am not sure how much longer I will be watching college athletics. I gave up watching pro sports a few years back.

Where will this stop, little league? Is the reason NIL is not there today because there is no or little money involved at that level? Is it the large amount of money generated by universities from huge stadiums and TV contracts, through the SEC, that brings the greed out in everyone? Is not getting an education, free, enough today? They are supposed to be preparing for a sports career just like other students that prepare in their major of study for a career. Now the student athlete will be paid to prepare for his/her career. Like I said above, where will this stop, at what level? As an extension of this train of thought is why aren't non student athletes getting paid for participating in research activities that bring the university money? Their Name, image and Likeness is also being used - see university brochures, the MSU channel and other documentaries as well that depict students doing their work. Why are student athletes special - because of the amount of money involved? Something is not right here! Sorry! This is what is turning the common man off!

[confucius say]

Totally understandable. I hate it too. But I want us to win more than I hate NIL, so I give.

[deltadawg63]

A good read for many would be the history of Clemson athletics and booster fundraising all the way back to the 1930's. IPTAY stands for "I pay ten a year". The concept is that all boosters and supporters count and are valuable for the good of the whole. I truly believe we have to maximize the buy-in and desire of all of the various giving levels of all of our supporters in order to compete going forward. It can build more than just a financial supporter as it can make people feel needed.

[preachermatt83]

Rhett lol. Glad he left.

Hear, here.

[dawggrad08]

I hate to disagree but the whole NIL movement has turned a lot of the common people, like me, off! We do not want to see amateur college athletics turn into a semi-pro league or maybe even a full fledged pro league. I'm afraid college athletics is ruined for good. I am not sure how much longer I will be watching college athletics. I gave up watching pro sports a few years back.

Where will this stop, little league? Is the reason NIL is not there today because there is no or little money involved at that level? Is it the large amount of money generated by universities from huge stadiums and TV contracts, through the SEC, that brings the greed out in everyone? Is not getting an education, free, enough today? They are supposed to be preparing for a sports career just like other students that prepare in their major of study for a career. Now the student athlete will be paid to prepare for his/her career. Like I said above, where will this stop, at what level? As an extension of this train of thought is why aren't non student athletes getting paid for participating in research activities that bring the university money? Their Name, image and Likeness is also being used - see university brochures, the MSU channel and other documentaries as well that depict students doing their work. Why are student athletes special - because of the amount of money involved? Something is not right here! Sorry! This is what is turning the common MSU man off!

I fixed your post (exhibit A). This exact sentiment is why the big donors we have contribute to academics and not athletics. Exhibit B, the huge donation we just received that had ZERO athletic portion allocated, according the article I read. We honestly haven't caught up to the times as a fanbase. Athletic success ties directly to higher enrollment, which of course increases non-athletic revenue. There's PLENTY of research that have outlined it. Until we understand and operate under this trend...we'll fall further and further behind.

I hate to tell you friend, college football has ALWAYS been a semi-pro league and will continue to be that as long as you must be 3 years removed from HS to go pro. Amateurism has always been a joke for college football. And honestly, no a "free" education is not enough when schools are making 100s of millions of dollars. And let's be honest, how many players are encouraged or allowed to major in "eligibility" rather than career worthy majors? I don't see them selling jerseys of the head researcher in the biology department on campus. Have you seen any?

[schddog72]

A good read for many would be the history of Clemson athletics and booster fundraising all the way back to the 1930's. IPTAY stands for "I pay ten a year". The concept is that all boosters and supporters count and are valuable for the good of the whole. I truly believe we have to maximize the buy-in and desire of all of the various giving levels of all of our supporters in order to compete going forward. It can build more than just a financial supporter as it can make people feel needed.

IPTAY is a fascinating story, going way back (I live in the upstate SC area) maybe 50 years. Unfortunately, in today's world, the "T" now stands for " . . . a THOUSAND a year" if you want to even get in the stadium. A few years ago, Clemson took reseated season ticket holders based on level of giving; there were a lot of "ten a year" folks that had had premium, lower level seats for many years. Those folks suddenly found themselves in the nose bleed section of the upper deck. There was much moaning, groaning, and gnashing of teeth . . . . . .

[bdfan09]

May not mean much, but I joined the BI after reading this thread.

[confucius say]

May not mean much, but I joined the BI after reading this thread.

Thank you! It means everything. If only 10% of people who wants State to win will sign up and give what they can 10-20-30-50 bucks a month, we'd be in a phenomenal spot. Heck, if we could just get half of the bulldog club members to do it we'd be in good shape.

[Santiago]

A good read for many would be the history of Clemson athletics and booster fundraising all the way back to the 1930's. IPTAY stands for "I pay ten a year". The concept is that all boosters and supporters count and are valuable for the good of the whole. I truly believe we have to maximize the buy-in and desire of all of the various giving levels of all of our supporters in order to compete going forward. It can build more than just a financial supporter as it can make people feel needed.

I remember when we hired Byrne, and he made an emphasis on every person giving what they can, and making everyone know that we have power in numbers at MSU. A few decades late, and Byrne did not stay with us very long, but dang he made me at the time , for the first time as an alum, feel like whatever I donated did make a difference.
Look what he replaced. Templeton had his secretary handle his emails from what I heard. We went from that, to Byrne who fully understood GoFundMe for athletics before it was a thing.

When we hired Cohen, we seemed to really go backwards as far as reaching out to the every day MSU fan and alum, especially how Cohen always tried to act like he was above you.

I have heard Selmon had more meeting for NIL in 3 months than Cohen had the entire time he was AD. So I am glad Cohen is gone, and glad Rhett went with him so we can bring in difference makers that are more in tune with today.

[99jc]

i know Selmon has personally emailed me back about the baseball situation Cohen never Did.

[EdwardDrayton]

I remember when we hired Byrne, and he made an emphasis on every person giving what they can, and making everyone know that we have power in numbers at MSU. A few decades late, and Byrne did not stay with us very long, but dang he made me at the time , for the first time as an alum, feel like whatever I donated did make a difference.
Look what he replaced. Templeton had his secretary handle his emails from what I heard. We went from that, to Byrne who fully understood GoFundMe for athletics before it was a thing.

When we hired Cohen, we seemed to really go backwards as far as reaching out to the every day MSU fan and alum, especially how Cohen always tried to act like he was above you.

I have heard Selmon had more meeting for NIL in 3 months than Cohen had the entire time he was AD. So I am glad Cohen is gone, and glad Rhett went with him so we can bring in difference makers that are more in tune with today.

Yes, well, that approach has gone a full 180. Now it's $25,000 or you're just wasting their time.

[Cowbell]

i know Selmon has personally emailed me back about the baseball situation Cohen never Did.

Was it an actual personal email? I got mass reply type emails from Cohen during Moorhead debacle

[CadaverDawg]

Was it an actual personal email? I got mass reply type emails from Cohen during Moorhead debacle

Not a Stricklin fan, but he personally emailed me back. Multiple replies that couldn't have been handled by a secretary or in mass. He's the only one I've emailed though, so I can't speak to the others.

I agree with the above posters...and I'm so proud of the guy above who said this thread made him donate to BI. If everyone reading this thread will give whatever they can afford per month, it will help. Let's all pull the rope...it will feel so much more gratifying too when we succeed if we're all contributing. Even those that can't afford hardly anything, give a few bucks a month. If you're reading this and aren't donating, start tomorrow. Nobody will judge based on dollar amount. It's like being new at the gym....you may think that the guys doing the heavy lifting are judging you because you're a lightweight....but in reality they're all proud of you for getting in there and getting after it with them. (Or at least that's what I'm told...I'm a lightweight haha).

Let's Go! If nothing else, Arnett is earning our support. He's doing a hell of a lot more with no history of success than some hunch back and other coaches that had success earned on the recruiting trail already. Let's give him something to work with and really see what they can do. All In, man. I hate this NIL shit as much as the next guy, but it is what it is, and if we wanna see State win we gotta get in.

[DownwardDawg]

Not a Stricklin fan, but he personally emailed me back. Multiple replies that couldn't have been handled by a secretary or in mass. He's the only one I've emailed though, so I can't speak to the others.

I agree with the above posters...and I'm so proud of the guy above who said this thread made him donate to BI. If everyone reading this thread will give whatever they can afford per month, it will help. Let's all pull the rope...it will feel so much more gratifying too when we succeed if we're all contributing. Even those that can't afford hardly anything, give a few bucks a month. If you're reading this and aren't donating, start tomorrow. Nobody will judge based on dollar amount. It's like being new at the gym....you may think that the guys doing the heavy lifting are judging you because you're a lightweight....but in reality they're all proud of you for getting in there and getting after it with them. (Or at least that's what I'm told...I'm a lightweight haha).

Let's Go! If nothing else, Arnett is earning our support. He's doing a hell of a lot more with no history of success than some hunch back and other coaches that had success earned on the recruiting trail already. Let's give him something to work with and really see what they can do. All In, man. I hate this NIL shit as much as the next guy, but it is what it is, and if we wanna see State win we gotta get in.
Byrne and I used to email back and forth to the point he had "almost" become a friend. And the dude handled his business well.

[confucius say]

Not a Stricklin fan, but he personally emailed me back. Multiple replies that couldn't have been handled by a secretary or in mass. He's the only one I've emailed though, so I can't speak to the others.

I agree with the above posters...and I'm so proud of the guy above who said this thread made him donate to BI. If everyone reading this thread will give whatever they can afford per month, it will help. Let's all pull the rope...it will feel so much more gratifying too when we succeed if we're all contributing. Even those that can't afford hardly anything, give a few bucks a month. If you're reading this and aren't donating, start tomorrow. Nobody will judge based on dollar amount. It's like being new at the gym....you may think that the guys doing the heavy lifting are judging you because you're a lightweight....but in reality they're all proud of you for getting in there and getting after it with them. (Or at least that's what I'm told...I'm a lightweight haha).

Let's Go! If nothing else, Arnett is earning our support. He's doing a hell of a lot more with no history of success than some hunch back and other coaches that had success earned on the recruiting trail already. Let's give him something to work with and really see what they can do. All In, man. I hate this NIL shit as much as the next guy, but it is what it is, and if we wanna see State win we gotta get in.

Preach

[State82]

Excellent points CD. Good job.

[99jc]

Was it an actual personal email? I got mass reply type emails from Cohen during Moorhead debacle

yes it was personal.

[TrapGame]

I give monthly to the BI. I never attended MSU. My degree is mustard yellow but my mother graduated from State. It ain't much but I care enough to at least give something. I believe in MSU.

And If I ever win one of those big lotteries with the half billion or so, I'll be giving a $100 million or more.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

And If I ever win one of those big lotteries with the half billion or so, I'll be giving a $100 million or more.

That's $50 million after Uncle Sam's take. Just saying. :D

[Cowbell]

yes it was personal.

That's awesome

[Reason2succeed]

Me: How did a thread praising Arnett become a referendum on Selmon?

Also me: Mississippi State fans, that?s how.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I fixed your post (exhibit A). This exact sentiment is why the big donors we have contribute to academics and not athletics. Exhibit B, the huge donation we just received that had ZERO athletic portion allocated, according the article I read. We honestly haven't caught up to the times as a fanbase. Athletic success ties directly to higher enrollment, which of course increases non-athletic revenue. There's PLENTY of research that have outlined it. Until we understand and operate under this trend...we'll fall further and further behind.

I hate to tell you friend, college football has ALWAYS been a semi-pro league and will continue to be that as long as you must be 3 years removed from HS to go pro. Amateurism has always been a joke for college football. And honestly, no a "free" education is not enough when schools are making 100s of millions of dollars. And let's be honest, how many players are encouraged or allowed to major in "eligibility" rather than career worthy majors? I don't see them selling jerseys of the head researcher in the biology department on campus. Have you seen any?

They were already getting paid a lot more on a stipend than you realize. The scholarship players anyway. They are not and never were victims. This whole deal is nothing but politics trickling down. I will leave it at that

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

They were already getting paid a lot more on a stipend than you realize. The scholarship players anyway. They are not and never were victims. This whole deal is nothing but politics trickling down. I will leave it at that

1) how much of a "stipend" were they really getting if Leo Lewis was playing boosters for 10k and Tunsil had to ask a coach for $600 to pay for his mom's utility bill?

2) in what way is NIL "politics trickling down"? The Supreme Court (of mostly conservative justicies) ruled that colleges aged adults get rights just like you and me. That's all it is, the right to sell yourself for more money if someone's willing to pay it. We do it every day we go to work, and you'd flip companies if you got offered double the salary. Pro teams have salary caps yes but there's nothing stopping g them from getting add deals on the side, which is basically the name model to how tuition + NIL functions.

I can hate the outcome NIL has on college athletics while also saying it's the correct move to make. It's insane to have a bunch of wealthy old men telling a poor 19 year old they aren't allowed to make money when every other group and age in America can

[R2Dawg]

1) how much of a "stipend" were they really getting if Leo Lewis was playing boosters for 10k and Tunsil had to ask a coach for $600 to pay for his mom's utility bill?

2) in what way is NIL "politics trickling down"? The Supreme Court (of mostly conservative justicies) ruled that colleges aged adults get rights just like you and me. That's all it is, the right to sell yourself for more money if someone's willing to pay it. We do it every day we go to work, and you'd flip companies if you got offered double the salary. Pro teams have salary caps yes but there's nothing stopping g them from getting add deals on the side, which is basically the name model to how tuition + NIL functions.

I can hate the outcome NIL has on college athletics while also saying it's the correct move to make. It's insane to have a bunch of wealthy old men telling a poor 19 year old they aren't allowed to make money when every other group and age in America can

Been a while since I've posted (taking a break) so first, I'm a little behind on the discussions but I'm fired up about what CZA is doing. I just got a feeling about CZA that big things are coming for MSU.

Now to your points.

1) Don't know about stipends but it doesn't matter. Whatever money people get we spend it and want more. The athletes are the richest kids on campus by a long shot so pause while I get my little violin out for them.

2) Here is how it is politics trickling down - The CRT crowd has a victim and oppressor. Yall know where the labels go. The Supreme Court are just humans and they make wrong decisions all the time. We still live by those bad/wrong decisions but don't act like they get it right all the time. The Supreme Court didn't give the right to make more money if you want that is what our Constitution and free market have given all of us. If you don't like playing for a free college education with free everything for 4 years and best facilities in every state a total work 500K+ almost everywhere then you have the freedom to take your talent to the pros whenever you want. I have no issue if they want to work a job to earn money but what we have now is ridiculous and a joke.

College was supposed to be an institution of higher learning but the majority of resources goes towards sports programs. This is the difference. Not about freedom. I love college sports or used to. I quit pro stuff because of all the crap (not money they are making) Go make what the market will bear if you can - same for every other American.

[DownwardDawg]

Been a while since I've posted (taking a break) so first, I'm a little behind on the discussions but I'm fired up about what CZA is doing. I just got a feeling about CZA that big things are coming for MSU.

Now to your points.

1) Don't know about stipends but it doesn't matter. Whatever money people get we spend it and want more. The athletes are the richest kids on campus by a long shot so pause while I get my little violin out for them.

2) Here is how it is politics trickling down - The CRT crowd has a victim and oppressor. Yall know where the labels go. The Supreme Court are just humans and they make wrong decisions all the time. We still live by those bad/wrong decisions but don't act like they get it right all the time. The Supreme Court didn't give the right to make more money if you want that is what our Constitution and free market have given all of us. If you don't like playing for a free college education with free everything for 4 years and best facilities in every state a total work 500K+ almost everywhere then you have the freedom to take your talent to the pros whenever you want. I have no issue if they want to work a job to earn money but what we have now is ridiculous and a joke.

College was supposed to be an institution of higher learning but the majority of resources goes towards sports programs. This is the difference. Not about freedom. I love college sports or used to. I quit pro stuff because of all the crap (not money they are making) Go make what the market will bear if you can - same for every other American.

Outstanding post.

[MrCoachKlein]

If you don't like playing for a free college education with free everything for 4 years and best facilities in every state a total work 500K+ almost everywhere then you have the freedom to take your talent to the pros whenever you want. Go make what the market will bear if you can - same for every other American.

Only problem is you can't go from high school to pro. 3 years in FB. NBA you have to be 19 now and 1 year removed from high school.

[CaptainObvious]

Only problem is you can't go from high school to pro. 3 years in FB. NBA you have to be 19 now and 1 year removed from high school.

Sure you can. You can become a Pro Grass Cutter, or a Pro Can Stacker or a Pro Car Washer or a Pro Food Server or if you can roller skate a Pro Car Hop at Sonic. Regular Students get scholarships for academic prowess in the HS classrooms and then many of them still get a job while in college. If an athlete isn?t satisfied with the full ride scholarship plus the stipend we all know they get, they can make football a hobby and find another calling. Coaches are highly paid to lead young men between the ages of 17-23 to become better men and prepare for life after play time ends. Playing football is no more a job than swimming, diving, track, field, or any other Olympic Sport. They all train hard to improve their skills so they can be the best they can be.

Here is an idea. Pay college athletes exactly the same as the soldier who works in the motor pool or as a desk jockey and doesn?t face bullets whizzing by his or her head.

[BuckyIsAB****]

1) how much of a "stipend" were they really getting if Leo Lewis was playing boosters for 10k and Tunsil had to ask a coach for $600 to pay for his mom's utility bill?

2) in what way is NIL "politics trickling down"? The Supreme Court (of mostly conservative justicies) ruled that colleges aged adults get rights just like you and me. That's all it is, the right to sell yourself for more money if someone's willing to pay it. We do it every day we go to work, and you'd flip companies if you got offered double the salary. Pro teams have salary caps yes but there's nothing stopping g them from getting add deals on the side, which is basically the name model to how tuition + NIL functions.

I can hate the outcome NIL has on college athletics while also saying it's the correct move to make. It's insane to have a bunch of wealthy old men telling a poor 19 year old they aren't allowed to make money when every other group and age in America can

1. You are talking about their situations before they go to school. I can tell you between their stipends and getting free food clothes virtually anything they need taken care of they are not victims.

2. They were already making money. Thats what you?re not understanding. They have and had rights. They are the biggest men on campus. Trust me, no one is picking on them. It is absolutely a political issue.

[MrCoachKlein]

Sure you can. You can become a Pro Grass Cutter, or a Pro Can Stacker or a Pro Car Washer or a Pro Food Server or if you can roller skate a Pro Car Hop at Sonic. Regular Students get scholarships for academic prowess in the HS classrooms and then many of them still get a job while in college. If an athlete isn?t satisfied with the full ride scholarship plus the stipend we all know they get, they can make football a hobby and find another calling. Coaches are highly paid to lead young men between the ages of 17-23 to become better men and prepare for life after play time ends. Playing football is no more a job than swimming, diving, track, field, or any other Olympic Sport. They all train hard to improve their skills so they can be the best they can be.

Here is an idea. Pay college athletes exactly the same as the soldier who works in the motor pool or as a desk jockey and doesn?t face bullets whizzing by his or her head.

There's quite a difference in someone, who if not for a frivolous rule by the NFL, could make millions and could potentially suffer a career ending injury and a car hop.

Instead of paying them in college, they should be allowed to accept a job on a pro or semi pro team out of high school.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lot of hypocrisy in here from "small Govt" pro free market conservatives.

"They should make what soldiers make"- what in the big govt micromanaging the economy is this?? And why shouldn't YOU also make as much as a soldier? Why shouldn't pros make as much as a soldier, or the Apple CEO?

"These athletes are the wealthiest people on campus!"- statistically athletes come from VERY poor backgrounds. Baseball kids often come from money, but football and basketball are often single parent trailer park kids. And with school and their sport it's very difficult to find time for a "normal" job to help out.

"They should be happy with the full ride!!"- wait, they don't deserve the freedom to make more money because you think they make enough already? How is that any different than AOC saying CEO compensation should be capped? Tuition+the other benefits athletes get is about 40k of value; if they should be happy with that, why should you be allowed to earn more than 40k? Why subject this small subset of the population to an income cap when you'd feel outraged if you had an income cap placed on you?

"They can go pro in cutting grass if they don't like the income caps I'm impising on them!" - Again, you'd never want this logic applied anywhere else. If someone came to you and said "were capping your career field at 40k income, if you don't like that go cut grass" you'd be rightfully pissed off. You'd also say it's Big Govt meddling in the free market, and you'd be right.

At the end of the day, athletes are people. And people should have rights to their own name, image, and likeness. What's a more basic individual right than that? Telling someone "you're not allowed to sign a piece of paper and sell it" is about as anti personal freedom as you can get

[Tater]

Outstanding post.

I think you mean outrageous not outstanding.

This commie is mad that capitalism has ruled and dictated that people get paid for the compensation they provide.

Sure the things he listed or nice. Guess what else is nice? Billions in revenue. Capitalism came in and said that if you're making all this money then the workers who make it can profit off of it too. Have a free market and let it play out.

Anyone mad about college players getting more money is anti capitalism. Period. The end.

Imagine if welders across the country had to go work in communities where for four years, they refined their welding skills. They get free lodging, food, and "tuition." In exchange the company running it gets tons of free labor. The welders all get paid the same amount regardless of skill. They're capped at the schools' discretion as no free market is allowed to offer higher dollars.

If that sounds like paradise for you... go ask someone you actually trust to tell you what kind of system that is cause you won't like the answer that I give.

[Cowbell]

I think you mean outrageous not outstanding.

This commie is mad that capitalism has ruled and dictated that people get paid for the compensation they provide.

Sure the things he listed or nice. Guess what else is nice? Billions in revenue. Capitalism came in and said that if you're making all this money then the workers who make it can profit off of it too. Have a free market and let it play out.

Anyone mad about college players getting more money is anti capitalism. Period. The end.

Imagine if welders across the country had to go work in communities where for four years, they refined their welding skills. They get free lodging, food, and "tuition." In exchange the company running it gets tons of free labor. The welders all get paid the same amount regardless of skill. They're capped at the schools' discretion as no free market is allowed to offer higher dollars.

If that sounds like paradise for you... go ask someone you actually trust to tell you what kind of system that is cause you won't like the answer that I give.

I thought you said we could only praise Arnett in this thread?

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/7YSGyDPS/IMG-4853.jpg

This is what I was alluding to in regards to the average fan and NIL

[R2Dawg]

Lot of hypocrisy in here from "small Govt" pro free market conservatives.

"They should make what soldiers make"- what in the big govt micromanaging the economy is this?? And why shouldn't YOU also make as much as a soldier? Why shouldn't pros make as much as a soldier, or the Apple CEO?

"These athletes are the wealthiest people on campus!"- statistically athletes come from VERY poor backgrounds. Baseball kids often come from money, but football and basketball are often single parent trailer park kids. And with school and their sport it's very difficult to find time for a "normal" job to help out.

"They should be happy with the full ride!!"- wait, they don't deserve the freedom to make more money because you think they make enough already? How is that any different than AOC saying CEO compensation should be capped? Tuition+the other benefits athletes get is about 40k of value; if they should be happy with that, why should you be allowed to earn more than 40k? Why subject this small subset of the population to an income cap when you'd feel outraged if you had an income cap placed on you?

"They can go pro in cutting grass if they don't like the income caps I'm impising on them!" - Again, you'd never want this logic applied anywhere else. If someone came to you and said "were capping your career field at 40k income, if you don't like that go cut grass" you'd be rightfully pissed off. You'd also say it's Big Govt meddling in the free market, and you'd be right.

At the end of the day, athletes are people. And people should have rights to their own name, image, and likeness. What's a more basic individual right than that? Telling someone "you're not allowed to sign a piece of paper and sell it" is about as anti personal freedom as you can get


You like others miss the big point - college is not pro sports. Go make all you want in free market. Im all for it. If you want to make this pro sports then yes I'm fine with it all but that is the main point, it aint supposed to be. That is why the NCAA has existed all these years. The advertisments still say amateur sports becuase 99% never make a pro career.

Wealthiest on campus - ah yes. Do they have 200K loan bills when they graduate? No Every other kid except for those that worked their tail off and are talented enough to get some scholarships but they don't get access to best meals on campus, best training facilities, clothes, perks out the rear end. I know eng students have only got to eat a handful of times a week. How do you think those million dollar facilities are paid for?

No one is stopping them from making whatever money they want but if they want to get a college education then a free/expensive ride is paid for to play a fun sport and be idolized.
Why should I be allowed to make 40K a year? Because I ain't getting a free ride to college. They can do the same. No one has taken anything from anyone.

You get what you get paid becuase the market will pay it. You will never earn top dollar mowing grass compared to a doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc. Stupid example you gave.

I don't have a problem with NIL but all that has been done is a money scandal buying players. They wanted to keep the playing field even since it was amateur sports but now it is pro sports to the highest bidder with no rules.

Real simple - college/amateur sports or pro sports. That is the issue. Got nothing to do with freedoms taken away. They all got freedom.

[R2Dawg]

I think you mean outrageous not outstanding.

This commie is mad that capitalism has ruled and dictated that people get paid for the compensation they provide.

Sure the things he listed or nice. Guess what else is nice? Billions in revenue. Capitalism came in and said that if you're making all this money then the workers who make it can profit off of it too. Have a free market and let it play out.

Anyone mad about college players getting more money is anti capitalism. Period. The end.

Imagine if welders across the country had to go work in communities where for four years, they refined their welding skills. They get free lodging, food, and "tuition." In exchange the company running it gets tons of free labor. The welders all get paid the same amount regardless of skill. They're capped at the schools' discretion as no free market is allowed to offer higher dollars.

If that sounds like paradise for you... go ask someone you actually trust to tell you what kind of system that is cause you won't like the answer that I give.

Ain't got nothing to do with capitalism. Has to do with amateur/college sports vs pro sports which is why NCAA existed all these years. College goal is IHL with sports as a way for some to earn their way to a college degree. Those BTW that could not afford otherwise. Not become a pro sports league.

There ain't a red blood cell of commie in me brother. Discernment of the topic is the issue. You know what discernment is don't you? Knowing the difference in right and almost right. Too many today, can't tell the difference.

[R2Dawg]

BTW, even capitalism needs guide rails. Why? Because man is inherently evil and will abuse his power. Free market to go harm anyone you want how you want can't be allowed which is why we have laws and government and governing institutions like NCAA to keep things between the ditches but allow free market between boundaries. We have no boundaries now.

[Maverick91]

This has nothing to do with capitalism the powers at be made it about that. This has everything to do with what is the purpose of college? It is to get an education, to prepare for the real world, make friends, find a spouse, have some fun.

Sports came in and said ?work? for the University by representing us on the sports field. In return, you will get room and board, travel, clothes, free food year around, and to experience things that the average person will never get to experience.

That is a pretty awesome and fair trade. I would listen to an argument as to why that isn?t fair. But, I?ll be hard pressed to change.

The only thing that should have changed is athletes actually making money off of their name, image, and likeness. They sell a jersey with their name on it, they get proceeds.

This bidding for players via initiatives should have never been allowed. Moves the competition from the field to the donor pockets, which no one wanted unless you hate competition.

[BrunswickDawg]

BTW, even capitalism needs guide rails. Why? Because man is inherently evil and will abuse his power. Free market to go harm anyone you want how you want can't be allowed which is why we have laws and government and governing institutions like NCAA to keep things between the ditches but allow free market between boundaries. We have no boundaries now.

The real issue is that the guardrail - the NCAA- is the one that unleashed this by sticking their head in the sand and ignoring it. Instead of focusing keeping the playing field level from a university support perspective, they cracked down on $100 "crimes" while the business side was raking in Billions. The intent of NIL is correct - to allow athletes to capitalize on their name/fame. If a car dealer wants to support players by giving them access to a vehicle -who cares. If a player can make extra cash by signing autographs - who cares. And who cares where the market sets that rate. Amateur athletes have been allowed those things for a 100 years - hell Wheaties built their brand on supporting amateur athletes. By ignoring it, the NCAA created a system that may crash all of college athletics.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Yall are acting like the players have an option to go straight to the pros- they don't. The NCAA is a monopoly (Supreme Courts words), therefore they can't just say "were not paying the players" as the players have zero other options.

200k student loans? The average new graduate has 35k in student loans. Let's at least use numbers somewhat close to reality.

Also when I say they're getting "paid 40k" pre NIL that includes said full ride- you don't get to double count the value of the full lride by saying "they should be happy with 40k because they get a full ride and I dont".

And no their full ride isn't paid by the regular engineering students who have to skip meals. Most of the athletic budget comes from sales and donations. In 2018 a total of $18.2B was spent on sports by colleges, 1.5B came from "student fees" (8.2%). And since all NIL is funded by boosters, that ENGR student isn't loosing anything because of NIL. Again, Let's try to use reality as the bases for the debate and not narratives we heard once that sounded good.

And again, "they shouldn't get paid because they get a full scholarship and I dont! Others have it worse so the athletes should t get any better! Is not fair or logical. If you had good benefits at your employer should you be forced to take a lower salary by jealous neighbors? No? So why should we tell a athlete they can't sell an autograph just because some other students don't get a full ride?

"College os about school!"- oh please, it hasn't been that for a while. Not at the big schools where the potential pro players go anyway. To a typical 4* football or basketball player it's just a stop on the road to the pros. Hell, the college "courses" these kids take are a joke and we all know it. If you REALLY cared about keeping college focused on academics, you'd want to disband the athletic department entirely. But you don't, you just don't like the cheap labor not being so cheap anymore.

Again, nothing is more authoritarian than telling an individual they can't sign a piece of paper and sell it. Individual rights Trump what's convenient for my preferred sports team

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

BTW, even capitalism needs guide rails. Why? Because man is inherently evil and will abuse his power. Free market to go harm anyone you want how you want can't be allowed which is why we have laws and government and governing institutions like NCAA to keep things between the ditches but allow free market between boundaries. We have no boundaries now.

The "guide rail" NIL eliminated was the income cap. Saying "athletes are only allowed to have a scholarship and this set list of other benefits!" is the equivalent of the Govt saying "No doctor at any cospital shall make more than $X regardless of whether or not someone is willing to pay them more!"

Do you want compensation caps for Drs, Lawyers, accountants, small business owners? No? So let's quit being hypocritical about this same guardrail being removed from college athletes.

[confucius say]

Lot of hypocrisy in here from "small Govt" pro free market conservatives.

"They should make what soldiers make"- what in the big govt micromanaging the economy is this?? And why shouldn't YOU also make as much as a soldier? Why shouldn't pros make as much as a soldier, or the Apple CEO?

"These athletes are the wealthiest people on campus!"- statistically athletes come from VERY poor backgrounds. Baseball kids often come from money, but football and basketball are often single parent trailer park kids. And with school and their sport it's very difficult to find time for a "normal" job to help out.

"They should be happy with the full ride!!"- wait, they don't deserve the freedom to make more money because you think they make enough already? How is that any different than AOC saying CEO compensation should be capped? Tuition+the other benefits athletes get is about 40k of value; if they should be happy with that, why should you be allowed to earn more than 40k? Why subject this small subset of the population to an income cap when you'd feel outraged if you had an income cap placed on you?

"They can go pro in cutting grass if they don't like the income caps I'm impising on them!" - Again, you'd never want this logic applied anywhere else. If someone came to you and said "were capping your career field at 40k income, if you don't like that go cut grass" you'd be rightfully pissed off. You'd also say it's Big Govt meddling in the free market, and you'd be right.

At the end of the day, athletes are people. And people should have rights to their own name, image, and likeness. What's a more basic individual right than that? Telling someone "you're not allowed to sign a piece of paper and sell it" is about as anti personal freedom as you can get

They are. But what college athletes and their lobbying arm want is to be able to dictate to a voluntary organization (NCAA) the organization's own rules. That is as anti free market as you get. "We don't like your rules but instead of starting our own organization and competing against you and letting the free market decide which is better, we want you to change your rules." That's not free market.

Nobody is saying athletes should not be able to be paid for their NIL. Have at it. But go play NAIA, NJCAA, XFL, or start some other league that allows it. That's how the free market works.

The way out now is for the P5 to break off, start it's own league with its own rules that promote parity, and compete against the NCAA (thereby eliminating antitrust concerns).

[confucius say]

I think you mean outrageous not outstanding.

This commie is mad that capitalism has ruled and dictated that people get paid for the compensation they provide.

Sure the things he listed or nice. Guess what else is nice? Billions in revenue. Capitalism came in and said that if you're making all this money then the workers who make it can profit off of it too. Have a free market and let it play out.

Anyone mad about college players getting more money is anti capitalism. Period. The end.

Imagine if welders across the country had to go work in communities where for four years, they refined their welding skills. They get free lodging, food, and "tuition." In exchange the company running it gets tons of free labor. The welders all get paid the same amount regardless of skill. They're capped at the schools' discretion as no free market is allowed to offer higher dollars.

If that sounds like paradise for you... go ask someone you actually trust to tell you what kind of system that is cause you won't like the answer that I give.

Aside from it not being capitalism as explained above, if it is "labor" as you claim then that's a completely different situation. Taxes come into play and athletes are either bound by a contract and have to stay at a school or are at will employees. I would actually support that model, but so far the judiciary has said it is not "labor."

[confucius say]

https://i.postimg.cc/7YSGyDPS/IMG-4853.jpg

This is what I was alluding to in regards to the average fan and NIL

But the model has not been the average fan. It's been big donors. 20k people paying $15 a month is sustainable and is more money than we get yearly now.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

They are. But what college athletes and their lobbying arm want is to be able to dictate to a voluntary organization (NCAA) the organization's own rules. That is as anti free market as you get. "We don't like your rules but instead of starting our own organization and competing against you and letting the free market decide which is better, we want you to change your rules." That's not free market.

Nobody is saying athletes should not be able to be paid for their NIL. Have at it. But go play NAIA, NJCAA, XFL, or start some other league that allows it. That's how the free market works.

The way out now is for the P5 to break off, start it's own league with its own rules that promote parity, and compete against the NCAA (thereby eliminating antitrust concerns).

It's not anti free market, its akin to a union. The workers (players) got tired of working for 40k when for some of them their actual value is in the millions.

Moreover, the (mostly conservative) Supreme Court ruled the NCAA IS A MONOPOLY, which legitimately the kind of thing we do need "guide rails" against. If you do not believe the NCAA is a monopoly, please take it up with the SC. The judges own opinions are public for you to read. Kavanagh in particular tore the NCAA a new one for how bad their legal arguments were (EDIT: Just looked it up it was a 9-0 vote)

[Tater]

You like others miss the big point - college is not pro sports. Go make all you want in free market. Im all for it. If you want to make this pro sports then yes I'm fine with it all but that is the main point, it aint supposed to be. That is why the NCAA has existed all these years. The advertisments still say amateur sports becuase 99% never make a pro career.

Wealthiest on campus - ah yes. Do they have 200K loan bills when they graduate? No Every other kid except for those that worked their tail off and are talented enough to get some scholarships but they don't get access to best meals on campus, best training facilities, clothes, perks out the rear end. I know eng students have only got to eat a handful of times a week. How do you think those million dollar facilities are paid for?

No one is stopping them from making whatever money they want but if they want to get a college education then a free/expensive ride is paid for to play a fun sport and be idolized.
Why should I be allowed to make 40K a year? Because I ain't getting a free ride to college. They can do the same. No one has taken anything from anyone.

You get what you get paid becuase the market will pay it. You will never earn top dollar mowing grass compared to a doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc. Stupid example you gave.

I don't have a problem with NIL but all that has been done is a money scandal buying players. They wanted to keep the playing field even since it was amateur sports but now it is pro sports to the highest bidder with no rules.

Real simple - college/amateur sports or pro sports. That is the issue. Got nothing to do with freedoms taken away. They all got freedom.

The problem is you bought the lie that is amateur sports.

If it truly is amateur, then the colleges shouldn't be making surplus money off of it. College football is a business. In an ideal world it's not, but in the real world it is.

As such, the free market dictates businesses should pay employees market wages or get poached. There's not a debate for you to stand on. This is cut and dry.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The problem is you bought the lie that is amateur sports.

If it truly is amateur, then the colleges shouldn't be making surplus money off of it. College football is a business. In an ideal world it's not, but in the real world it is.

As such, the free market dictates businesses should pay employees market wages or get poached. There's not a debate for you to stand on. This is cut and dry.

Well said! I'd also like to add that IF we want colleges to be a place to "focus on academics", then why do we allow sports at all? Why should we be ok with a student spending all that time getting ready for football season when they could be studying? And why would we be OK with the university spending $92M a year on athletics if the university should be focused on education?

Why can the university spend so much on sports, the players spend so much time on sports, the players get slightly compensated via tuition, the players take BS classes designed to be easy to pass, BUT BUT BUT if but the player makes a free market wage on top of their tuition THAT is a mockery of education? What?

[confucius say]

It's not anti free market, its akin to a union. The workers (players) got tired of working for 40k when for some of them their actual value is in the millions.

Moreover, the (mostly conservative) Supreme Court ruled the NCAA IS A MONOPOLY, which legitimately the kind of thing we do need "guide rails" against. If you do not believe the NCAA is a monopoly, please take it up with the SC. The judges own opinions are public for you to read. Kavanagh in particular tore the NCAA a new one for how bad their legal arguments were (EDIT: Just looked it up it was a 9-0 vote)

I've read Alston many times and spoken on it. First, SCOTUS did not have to rule whether or not the NCAA is a monopoly under antitrust principles. The NCAA conceded that point. I personally thought that was both stupid and incorrect, as there are several other leagues where players can go play under a different set of rules, including at the collegiate level (NAIA, NJCAA, XFL, UFL).

Second, Alston's holding was very narrow and doesn't allow anything close to what is going on now. It actually said the NCAA is free to put restrictions in place regarding NIL and that benefits must be "education related." The NCAA is just scared to enforce anything for fear of lawsuits-another terrible decision.

Third, people on your side of the argument, whose opinions I respect, keep referring to players as workers and labor. I think moving to that model is a way to solve this, but so far the judiciary and the NLRB has not gone that route. Doing so would prohibit immediate-eligibility transfers and solve a ton of this.

Fourth, players have almost zero value outside of the brand on the front of their jersey. If Dart was playing for millsaps, he'd be worth nothing. The value is in the schools due to the passion of fans for that school. Players have almost zero stand alone value.

[confucius say]

The problem is you bought the lie that is amateur sports.

If it truly is amateur, then the colleges shouldn't be making surplus money off of it. College football is a business. In an ideal world it's not, but in the real world it is.

As such, the free market dictates businesses should pay employees market wages or get poached. There's not a debate for you to stand on. This is cut and dry.

But college athletes are not employees. If they were, they would be paid by an employer and either bound by the terms of an employment contract (no transfers) or at will (fired at any time).

The NIL issue (getting paid by boosters) and the "athletes are employees" issue (getting paid by the universities) are separate issues imo. But fixing the latter and making them employees could help solve the former because they would be getting paid primarily by the school instead of collectives.

[confucius say]

Well said! I'd also like to add that IF we want colleges to be a place to "focus on academics", then why do we allow sports at all? Why should we be ok with a student spending all that time getting ready for football season when they could be studying? And why would we be OK with the university spending $92M a year on athletics if the university should be focused on education?

Why can the university spend so much on sports, the players spend so much time on sports, the players get slightly compensated via tuition, the players take BS classes designed to be easy to pass, BUT BUT BUT if but the player makes a free market wage on top of their tuition THAT is a mockery of education? What?

In my job, I'm not free to go make a "market wage" as a spokesperson for XYZ company. I'd be fired. This is why athletes don't want to be labeled employees. They'd be bound by a contract or fired as at will employees.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

In my job, I'm not free to go make a "market wage" as a spokesperson for XYZ company. I'd be fired. This is why athletes don't want to be labeled employees. They'd be bound by a contract or fired as at will employees.

It depends on the terms of your contract. My work contract says nothing about being fired if I did an add for a local car dealership, for example. They can fire me at any time for any reason but only if they believed a 2nd job interfered with my job would they think to fire me. All that said, players can get "fired" currently. The head coach can bench them, encourage them to transfer, etc if the coach doesn't like their behavior, including NIL.

Of course, if I make 50k on the side and it didn't affect my work, my employer would be extatic! I'd be less likely to bug them for raises if I made more elsewhere supplementing what they paid me.

The immediate eligibility issue is an NCAA created one and has nothing to do with NIL. Players used to sign up for 4 year "contracts", and they could leave early for the pros or change "employers" but face a fine (sit out a year). That's all fine as contracts are a part of free market negotiations. Ots the capping of income below free market rates I take issue with

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

But college athletes are not employees. If they were, they would be paid by an employer and either bound by the terms of an employment contract (no transfers) or at will (fired at any time).

The NIL issue (getting paid by boosters) and the "athletes are employees" issue (getting paid by the universities) are separate issues imo. But fixing the latter and making them employees could help solve the former because they would be getting paid primarily by the school instead of collectives.

It's semantics to differentiate the Univeristy from the Boosters, as they work together for the common goal. If players got paid through universities all the NIL money would instead get donated to the athletic department. The players compensation (tuition+NIL) is essential coming from the same "company", if you will.

[Cowbell]

The only way to balance NIL is to have binding contracts that include performance clauses and set a cap.

[Cooterpoot]

But the model has not been the average fan. It's been big donors. 20k people paying $15 a month is sustainable and is more money than we get yearly now.

It's not happening though. And it won't happen. That 20K fans is a Pipedream to start with. The regular booster only will do so much. It's about business and that includes the tv contracts. The price of players is going to fluctuate like the economy too.

[Tater]

i know Selmon has personally emailed me back about the baseball situation Cohen never Did.

John emailed me back with personal replies on two occasions. One when I said the Moorhead Bowl game display was a disgrace. One when we wore the MoverS on the football helmets. But I also emailed from a msstate.edu email.

[Turfdawg67]

And to think I clicked on a post titled "Arnett".

[memsu06]

I think Arnett is an up and coming Nick Saban or Kirby Smart.

Their recruiting has been phenomenal so far.

I'm looking forward to surprising some people this year.

[Turfdawg67]

I think Arnett is an up and coming Nick Saban or Kirby Smart.

Their recruiting has been phenomenal so far.

I'm looking forward to surprising some people this year.

Ok... wow! After one game as a head coach. Ummm, hope you're right...

[memsu06]

Ok... wow! After one game as a head coach. Ummm, hope you're right...

I hope I'm right too, but from what I'm hearing he has very similar traits to both of them.

[TrapGame]

And to think I clicked on a post titled "Arnett".

https://media.tenor.com/15ilRsMsX_oAAAAC/dave-chappelle-gotcha-bitch.gif

[R2Dawg]

The problem is you bought the lie that is amateur sports.

If it truly is amateur, then the colleges shouldn't be making surplus money off of it. College football is a business. In an ideal world it's not, but in the real world it is.

As such, the free market dictates businesses should pay employees market wages or get poached. There's not a debate for you to stand on. This is cut and dry.

I haven't bought any lie. I am just stating what should be vs what is. Yes what is is a large money moving operation. It takes a lot of money to support it and it brings in a lot.

What it started out and should be is something different which is my point. These things don't happen over night but they progress worse and worse over time. Here is what I mean.


For the free market crowd. I am full free market with guiderails as everything must have guiderails because we all are flawed and make selfish unfair choices.

College kids are not in the free market yet. They are not in school to earn a living. They are in school to learn and prepare to make a living. Once you leave school you are now in the free market to choose what you do, how much you earn, etc. We got hoards of people that don't understand this. Athletes and all students all get a chance to work for an education to better their livelihood situation - again which comes after the education. The education system was never intended to be the free market for students themselves.

Part of making the education fun for young students is offering sports to those select few and the free education that most would never have a chance to get. The goal again is to better their life not enter pro sports. 99+% never have any career in pro sports and almost none make enough to live off of forever. So again the goal is to educate and give some a better chance. It ain't about making them rich in college and no one is being taken advantage of unless they don't get their education.

The NCAA sought to make college athletics fair so competition was good between all schools. This too eroded by bad rules (remember Bama getting all the players in the day and scholarship limits were done to even up the competition). Same thing now but NCAA threw in the towel to all the woke whinning about mistreatment. Also remind you that these IHL are funded by the state tax dollars and thus none of their money can be paid to athletes just like in high school. This is whi NIL ended up separate like it did. State Universities are different like it or not.

So applying free market to today's as is - there is no need to beat people up for not giving to NIL. Shutup and let the free market take care of it. If it is as great as some think, it will take care of itself. So go ahead and give your discretionary dollars to NIL and see what great return they provide. There ain't enough money to pass around to every player to stay at every school and in the end, not much changes. Good luck with that.


After all that, no one follows or cares about laws or rules today in anything which is what grates me the most. Relative truth applied to everything is the rule of the day. Same group that says the 10 commandments don't apply now or the Constitution is out dated so we can't go by it.

[Pancho]

Is NIL money given to the athlete in one lump sum, weekly or monthly? what tax do they pay on the income?

[confucius say]

Is NIL money given to the athlete in one lump sum, weekly or monthly? what tax do they pay on the income?

In installments.
Depends on the tax bracket. Have to be careful with Pell grants too. The income can put them over the threshold to qualify for a grant