Where MSU Baseball went wrong

[Todd4State]

MSU is a baseball is really good at being forward thinking. But where MSU got tripped up is trying to implement modern analytics with an understaffed coaching model and someone that maybe didn't have a full grasp of how to use analytics.

We have the pitching lab. Which is awesome. But we basically asked Foxhall to run everything with it and basically it went off the rails because he bought too much into velocity, spin and forgot that the fundamentals and having variety on the pitching staff is very valuable. That or we had a major disconnect between Foxhall and whoever was running the pitching lab.

Wake Forest has a pitching lab as well. But they have one of the best running it and analyzing the data from their staff and then the pitching coach designs an approach for each pitcher to maximize the data. And all of this also has to be in sync with our baseball S&C as well.

I think this resulted in a lot of gaps in our instruction and development which then resulted in the dramatic fall of Foxhall, a lot of injuries, and staff ERA's through the roof despite our pitching staff having highly rated "stuff".

Ever since we hired Cohen as our coach MSU has had issues at times with S&C. Our baseball program has to not only be forward thinking but we much bring in both on and off the field staff that are elite to get our program back to where we want it and then keep it there.

[TNDawg35]

Speaking of understaffed coaching, I hate how we always have a player coaching first. Tell Gotro or Lemonis to get off their ass and coach 3rd and put Cheese at first. With there being a 3rd assistant now, there should be no reason we can’t find the money to pay someone after cheese and make Them coach 1st. That is one of my pet peeves… I hate it…

[No BS Dawg]

Speaking of understaffed coaching, I hate how we always have a player coaching first. Tell Gotro or Lemonis to get off their ass and coach 3rd and put Cheese at first. With there being a 3rd assistant now, there should be no reason we can’t find the money to pay someone after cheese and make Them coach 1st. That is one of my pet peeves… I hate it…

I am in 100% agreement. Put a coach out there, not a player.

[Cooterpoot]

There are individual trainers and travel programs with a better "lab" for hitting and/or pitching. We got lazy and focused on the wrong things. We focused on facilities and "the party" instead of baseball itself. All this money we threw into the program went everywhere but to the actual program. That's about to change. We'll be updating our S/C program as well as adding staffing in a couple spots. I'm anxious to see if the talk is true about it all.
Lemonis can't sit back and not manage either. He's not handle things. He got more involved once Foxy was cut loose.

[BrunswickDawg]

Speaking of understaffed coaching, I hate how we always have a player coaching first. Tell Gotro or Lemonis to get off their ass and coach 3rd and put Cheese at first. With there being a 3rd assistant now, there should be no reason we can’t find the money to pay someone after cheese and make Them coach 1st. That is one of my pet peeves… I hate it…

Yeah because it takes someone making $300k to be able to yell "back" and hold on to extra gear. First base coach is pretty pointless which is why you see a lot of teams having players coaching first.

[Pancho]

ole Lemo gone have to pick things up a notch and all of a sudden do what other coaches have been doing for 10 years. wonder how he comes along with all this foreign info he must now process?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I've said this million times to you and you won't address it or change your narrative:

PITCHING IS NOT OUR ONLY FLAW! It is our biggest flaw yes, but for 2 straight seasons we've been 10th in scoring and this past season we were dead last in defense. We also clearly have no leadership on the team. NONE of that can be blamed on poor use of the pitching lab.

If we get our pitching to a mediocre level vs the current abysmal level we will make the tournament. But we will NOT be good enough to compete for the SEC, be a national seed, or go anywhere in the postseason. Those are the goal for State and you can't do that with sub par hitting and awful defense unless your pitching is truly elite (and we aren't hiring an elite coach or landing every pitching stud in the portal so that's not happening.

Again and agin I see you echo the same basic argument of "if we can just be mediocre on them mound we'll make the tournament!", and you've implied doing so is "turning it around". As I've said before and am saying now, the State standard is higher than that. We have "gone wrong" in far more ways than a PC alone can fix

[Patrick Tibbons]

Speaking of understaffed coaching, I hate how we always have a player coaching first. Tell Gotro or Lemonis to get off their ass and coach 3rd and put Cheese at first. With there being a 3rd assistant now, there should be no reason we can?t find the money to pay someone after cheese and make Them coach 1st. That is one of my pet peeves? I hate it?

Why do you hate it? A 1st base coach is probably the most pointless position of any on the field coaching position in any sport.

Any of our coaches are more valuable in the actual dugout, coaching up players and talking to them about their approach and how to attack a pitcher rather than standing at first holding an elbow guard.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah because it takes someone making $300k to be able to yell "back" and hold on to extra gear. First base coach is pretty pointless which is why you see a lot of teams having players coaching first.

Correct. A player standing at first is just fine. No one except our fan base even knows it is a player over there unless it was Landon coaching it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Until the culture is back none of it matters

[Homedawg]

Why do you hate it? A 1st base coach is probably the most pointless position of any on the field coaching position in any sport.

Any of our coaches are more valuable in the actual dugout, coaching up players and talking to them about their approach and how to attack a pitcher rather than standing at first holding an elbow guard.

This guy gets it.

[AlSwearengen]

Yeah, a first base coach is a cheerleader and these days someone to pack around all of the pads players use. Everything at first is in front of the player and most situations are pretty cut and dry.

I understand that there is a lot of frustration and there is a lot to be frustrated about but we could put Earl Weaver at 1B coach and it wouldn’t help us win one more game. Let’s stay focused.

[sandjunky]

Until the culture is back none of it matters
That?s not going to change until lemon is gone

[SPMT]

That?s not going to change until lemon is gone

Sadly, I believe this is correct.

He?s done nothing in transfer portal and has no hire. This is a terrible look. Nothing positive about it.

Spare me the drivel about NIL: Oral Robert?s, Coastal Carolina, ACC teams have better talent than our team does, much less SEC peers.

[SPMT]

I also believe, a solid coach with ambition can see the run made from Cohen to Lemonis and obviously the runs before. Really not runs, but long time winning history. They can also see the absolute train wreck the program has been the last two seasons. It’s a talent and culture problem. I can use my eyes and use my ears when hearing details
Of the culture from former players, etc.

[CadaverDawg]

Lemonis is going to have to be gone before we take any major steps forward.

The things I have heard about what he requires of his players are embarrassing and are a tone setter. I saw and heard it all when Luke Hancock was the ONLY player or coach to speak to the 1998 team that was recognized this year. Polk would have made sure every player shook all hands and thanked that team for setting the tone for where the program is today, but our guys didn't even acknowledge them. Nor did Lemonis himself. This entitled group doesn't fit the mold of State teams of the past, and it shows. And it's all a reflection of the coach.

Hope I'm wrong and he turns it around, but I'm afraid nothing will improve until he's gone, so we're wasting a year.

[SPMT]

Lemonis is going to have to be gone before we take any major steps forward.

The things I have heard about what he requires of his players are embarrassing and are a tone setter. I saw and heard it all when Luke Hancock was the ONLY player or coach to speak to the 1998 team that was recognized this year. Polk would have made sure every player shook all hands and thanked that team for setting the tone for where the program is today, but our guys didn't even acknowledge them. Nor did Lemonis himself. This entitled group doesn't fit the mold of State teams of the past, and it shows. And it's all a reflection of the coach.

Hope I'm wrong and he turns it around, but I'm afraid nothing will improve until he's gone, so we're wasting a year.


I’ve not heard that story but I’ve heard multiple other similar things. I hate to say it but I agree, it won’t change when entitlement is allowed, outside of a 180.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Need to send them to Tyson Brown and they will get some Leach in them. Its what they need

[confucius say]

We're working on the culture piece. Alford being gone is only part of that.