Another top ten for TSUN

[PCHSDawg]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CswsmbQh1gf/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
Go figure.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

"sex, gender, and the Bible"

are we supposed to be upset that they offer that class? I don't see what's wrong with it based on that name alone.

Are you against people learning what the Bible says about sex or gender?

[PCHSDawg]

I didn't make the list, just thought it amusing that someone else did.

[Bdawg]

Must be all those “fat little girlfriends” that that prompted the WSU class!!!
RIP Leach!!

[Johnson85]

"sex, gender, and the Bible"

are we supposed to be upset that they offer that class? I don't see what's wrong with it based on that name alone.

Are you against people learning what the Bible says about sex or gender?

I am guessing they are assuming (or maybe they know from research) that the class is not talking about the act of sex, gender, and the bible, which on its face seems like it could be an interesting class with a lot of material to discuss. But is instead talking about sex as in male or female, and gender, and the bible, which the Bible probably doesn't say a whole lot about specifically.

[BulldogDX55]

I am guessing they are assuming (or maybe they know from research) that the class is not talking about the act of sex, gender, and the bible, which on its face seems like it could be an interesting class with a lot of material to discuss. But is instead talking about sex as in male or female, and gender, and the bible, which the Bible probably doesn't say a whole lot about specifically.

It's Turning Point USA. They just grabbed a bunch of class titles that mention any disadvantaged group. You've put more thought into this than they did.

[R2Dawg]

I am guessing they are assuming (or maybe they know from research) that the class is not talking about the act of sex, gender, and the bible, which on its face seems like it could be an interesting class with a lot of material to discuss. But is instead talking about sex as in male or female, and gender, and the bible, which the Bible probably doesn't say a whole lot about specifically.

I couldn't get the link to work to see what is said however to your last point. The Bible says it all with regards to gender - male and female. It is blatantly clear from Genesis to Rev. There is God's way and man's way. We are living in Romans 1 judgment right now.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I couldn't get the link to work to see what is said however to your last point. The Bible says it all with regards to gender - male and female. It is blatantly clear from Genesis to Rev. There is God's way and man's way. We are living in Romans 1 judgment right now.

Interesting how God reigns down righteous judgment now because gay and teams people exist, but didn't reign it down when we owned slaves. Odd moral priorities don't ya think?

Also, if this is God's judgment sign me up. Air conditioning, advanced medical treatments, internet to learn about anything i want, less wars than at any point in human history, millions globally lifted out of powerty every year... sounds pretty good honestly

[R2Dawg]

Interesting how God reigns down righteous judgment now because gay and teams people exist, but didn't reign it down when we owned slaves. Odd moral priorities don't ya think?

Also, if this is God's judgment sign me up. Air conditioning, advanced medical treatments, internet to learn about anything i want, less wars than at any point in human history, millions globally lifted out of powerty every year... sounds pretty good honestly

Dude, read what I type slowly here.

First slavery has been around since humanity. Every human group on the earth has been enslaved at one time or another. Oh BTW, God's chosen people the Jews were the first known slaves and God freed them. And the US is the only nation in world history the fight a civil war to end slavery.

God has always reigned down judgment - Sodom and Gomorrah long ago over sexual sin. Just because judgment may seem slow to you doesn't mean it don't come. God is extending His mercy to sinners for a chance to repent. God doesn't hate sinners, Jesus died to save them. Homosexuals are sinners like us all. God doesn't tolerate sin though. You haven't seen the end of judgment, it doesn't end well.

Lastly, yep evil exists in this world. God allows it because He gave man a free will. All you see evil in the world is a result of man not God. God sent Jesus to pay for man's sin and offer forgiveness to all that will accept. For those that don't judgment is their destiny.

Eternity is a long time to be wrong. After a billion trillion years, those in hell will not have removed one second off their suffering. Better think it over. Speaking of AC, there will be none in eternity for those that reject Jesus redeeming work. If you are scared, you should be and it is a good start towards salvation. Fear of the God is the beginning of wisdom.

I hope all who read think it over before too late.

[Pancho]

Amen to every word of that R2.

[Extendedcab]

I also agree with R2 but apparently real_MSU has never read the Bible. If he had, he would not have the opinion that he has. Please read the Bible in its entirety not just snippets, it is life changing!

[dawgday166]

Interesting how God reigns down righteous judgment now because gay and teams people exist, but didn't reign it down when we owned slaves. Odd moral priorities don't ya think?

Also, if this is God's judgment sign me up. Air conditioning, advanced medical treatments, internet to learn about anything i want, less wars than at any point in human history, millions globally lifted out of powerty every year... sounds pretty good honestly

What do you call the Civil War? 620,000 men died in that war, more than all our other wars combined. And more than that were wounded and/or maimed for life.

And in last 100 or so years we've mostly been fighting perpetual wars for perpetual peace.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

What do you call the Civil War? 620,000 men died in that war, more than all our other wars combined. And more than that were wounded and/or maimed for life.

And in last 100 or so years we've mostly been fighting perpetual wars for perpetual peace.

I call it humans fighting humans over moral convictions, I see no evidence God was involved at all. For example, terrorists waging war for Allah are quite full of moral convictions, but you wouldn't say the battles they fight are God's will/punishment.

Humans owned slaves. Other humans felt it was wrong. The 2 fought. It seems unnecessary and irrational to inject God and give Him credit for ending slavery in America. Plus, that opens up a whole can of worms about why he didn't end it sooner, or why he's done nothing to end it now in other parts of the world.

If God does act to bring "judgment" on the world, why does He allow such great evil to persist for so long?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

First slavery has been around since humanity. Every human group on the earth has been enslaved at one time or another.

And sexual immorality hasn't? God felt fine condemning that. Why didn't he do the same for slavery?


Oh BTW, God's chosen people the Jews were the first known slaves and God freed them.

1) don't you think it's odd that God, who made all humans, seemed fine ignoring 99% of humanity and only revealing truth or showing favor to 1%? I mean of I picked a favorite kid, I'd be a bad parent.

2) The Bible explicitly endorses slavery:

Exodus 21:20-21: When a man strikes his slave, man or woman, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if that slave survives a day or 2, he shall not be avenged for the slave is his property"

It says you can't beat the slave to death, but it does endorse owning slaves.

Numbers 31:17-18: (Moses talking about thebrecently conquered Midianites) Now kill all the boys, and kill every woman who has slept with a man. BUT SAVE FOR YOURSELF EVERY GIRL WHO HAS NEVER SLEPT WITH A MAN.

Huh, wonder what they'd want virgin girls for? And what their use "for yourself" could possibly be?

It's openly ORDERING the isealaites -not just allowing it to happen- to murder male children and take underage sex slaves.


God has always reigned down judgment - Sodom and Gomorrah long ago over sexual sin.... Lastly, yep evil exists in this world. God allows it because He gave man a free will.

Wait which is it? Does God act on the world to punish evil, or does he allow humans to choose evil?

If He can act on the world but chooses not too, then He's quite evil. Let me give a hypothetical:

Say you're walking the neighborhood and through an open window you see a grown man raping his clearly underage child. The child is screaming in pain. Do you A) charge in to help, B) call the cops so they can help, or C), shrug your shoulders, say "that dad seems like a bad guy, I'll punish him in 50 years" and keep walking? I'd say C) makes you a bad person.

God does C).


Just because judgment may seem slow to you doesn't mean it don't come.

I look around the world and I see no correlation between the believers and the nonbelievers. There's no difference in physical health, monetary wellbeing, how "blessed" they are with their family, how much they enjoy life, etc. I see no evidence God moves the needle for anyone. And again, if he CAN move the needle, but doesn't move it consistently to punish the bad or reward the good, then I'd say he's immoral. As a parent I'm supposed to punish bad behavior and reward the good, and do it consistently. Surely God would be a good parent if he's perfect, right?


Homosexuals are sinners like us all.

I understand the Bible says it's a sin, my issue is that it DOESN'T say owning a slave is a sin, or even beating your child. Only an immoral God would be more concerned with consensual sex between adults than the actual wellbeing of an innocent child, yet the Bible mentions homosexuality being bad far more often and more clearly than it says to not abuse children.


God doesn't tolerate sin though.

But He does, at least while they're living. A lot of unrepentant "sinners" live full lives and are quite content on their deathbed. And a lot of Christians face needless suffering after needless suffering. Again, not a very good parent if you ask me.



God sent Jesus to pay for man's sin and offer forgiveness to all that will accept. For those that don't judgment is their destiny.

That's another funny thing. There's been over 3000 gods humans have worshiped. You reject 2999 of them as being man made due to lack of evidence those gods exist. I reject 1 more than you. But I'll go to Hell for it?

So God wants us to use skepticism on 2999 religions, but correctly pick the 1 true religion and throw logic to the wind and belief it in "faith"? Doesn't that seem... inconsistent? Convenient for anyone making a profit of said 1 true religion? Let's give a more concrete example:

The Buddha achieved such enlightenment that he survived 49 years on a single grain of rice a day. Hundreds of millions have believed this story. Do you? Or do you say "this seems highly improbable, made up, and I'll need to see evidence before I believe it"? Well, me too!

But then we get to your religion... the son of God came down, died, and came back from the dead. Sp I say "this seems highly improbable, made up, and I'll need to see evidence before I believe it"... and that's enough to get me to hell?

I think Marcus Aurelius said it best: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then they do not deserve worship"

[Really Clark?]

I call it humans fighting humans over moral convictions, I see no evidence God was involved at all. For example, terrorists waging war for Allah are quite full of moral convictions, but you wouldn't say the battles they fight are God's will/punishment.

Humans owned slaves. Other humans felt it was wrong. The 2 fought. It seems unnecessary and irrational to inject God and give Him credit for ending slavery in America. Plus, that opens up a whole can of worms about why he didn't end it sooner, or why he's done nothing to end it now in other parts of the world.

If God does act to bring "judgment" on the world, why does He allow such great evil to persist for so long?

God gave humans free will to choose between good and evil. He wants us to choose him over sin. Human nature is corrupt from the time of the fall of man. It's our sins and evil that causes the greater evils to blossom in the world. No matter the evil, murder, slavery, greed, etc. God is against it. Doesn't mean he will now take away our free will in a real world with real consequences. He is extending mercy, not allowing evil, but extending mercy for everyone who will to turn away from that sin to believe in him before the final judgement. What you question about God allowing evil to persists is not the question, it's how long will he give mankind mercy to repent before the ultimate judgement with condemnation for eternity. While men do perpetrate evil in this world, it's not from God and he is only delaying final judgement to give as many who will the chance to change what happens in eternity. What we face here on this world is nothing like what an eternity in condemnation will be like.

[Pancho]

Hell will be much worse than Pure HELL. best advice is to accept Christ and quit trying to second guess God. I say that only because it definitely describes my situation.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I actually appreciate the efforts here to sway me, because I know it comes from a genuine desire to have me not suffer. I used to be Christian so I understand the mindset and appreciate the care shown.

However, I will not worship an immoral God. And to me, saying "you should take child sex slaves and kill all the male children" is pretty immoral. Allowing children to die of cancer when you could stop it is pretty immoral, and no a 5 year old with lymphoma is not "free will" at play. Even if you blame it on the fall, that child didn't do anything to deserve it.

I also can't make myself follow something that I don't actually believe is true. And with 3000 religions out there, I'm not going to reject 2999 of them to follow 1, especially when it contains so much contradictory behavior inconsistent with an omnipotent and benevolent being.

I shouldn't have spoken in the first place, and I should have responded after that. Good day to all of you

[Pancho]

There is only 1 who prepared a place in eternity for his followers and He is also the 1 who created the entire universe. I will pray daily for your soul because others did the same for me at one time. Sounds as if you have previously accepted Christ?

[BeardoMSU]

JFC, this thread.

It's a sports message board, not Sunday School at First Baptist Caledonia.

[Pancho]

Sorry that you can't accept some having a simple discussion and respecting each other at the same time. Maybe you should give it a try sometime? And there are some fine folks at Caledonia so please don't mix them in with yourself while you gripe.

[Quaoarsking]

I've never thought "you better believe what I believe or you will go to HELL for eternity!" was a very good sales pitch for converting people to Christianity. So you're telling non-Christians that all of their relatives who've already died are currently being tortured (or some kind of unpleasantness, depending on the exact group) that will last forever and ever? I've always preferred the Catholic approach of only a very small number of truly unrepentant and evil people go to Hell, while most everyone else goes to Purgatory first (whether they're Catholic or not, or even Christian or not) to atone for their sins and be cleansed of them before eventually going to Heaven to be a lot more palatable.

Of course whether something is palatable to me personally doesn't have any real bearing on whether it's true or not, but since there's never any strong evidence for any religious belief, people are going to believe what they're comfortable believing.

[Pancho]

You must be confusing some people with someone else.

[R2Dawg]

I actually appreciate the efforts here to sway me, because I know it comes from a genuine desire to have me not suffer. I used to be Christian so I understand the mindset and appreciate the care shown.

However, I will not worship an immoral God. And to me, saying "you should take child sex slaves and kill all the male children" is pretty immoral. Allowing children to die of cancer when you could stop it is pretty immoral, and no a 5 year old with lymphoma is not "free will" at play. Even if you blame it on the fall, that child didn't do anything to deserve it.

I also can't make myself follow something that I don't actually believe is true. And with 3000 religions out there, I'm not going to reject 2999 of them to follow 1, especially when it contains so much contradictory behavior inconsistent with an omnipotent and benevolent being.

I shouldn't have spoken in the first place, and I should have responded after that. Good day to all of you

I agree there are many things that seem difficult to understand. Yep is it fair that we are born sinful even though we didn't commit the sin in the Garden? Maybe, idk but we can't change that. Man was thrown out of the Garden after that so Paradise was lost until God spent years giving us a way back thru Jesus. Those difficult things are how we can see how bad sin is (any sin). The free will part is the kicker. God doesn't control us like a robot. We can choose and man chooses sin much of the time.

To the immoral thing. How do we know what is immoral if we don't know what is moral? If there is moral law then there must be a moral law giver - and that is God.

There is a big difference in all the other religions and Christianity. First all others say you have to do something. Christianity is nothing. Jesus paid the price. Christianity is done by God. Second, there is no other credible source of human/world history than the Bible. All historical items check true. The Bible written over 4000 years by over 40 authors inspired by God and all tell the same story and message. Amazing. No other religion can say that. All others were created by man. Why? Because man was created to worship something - God. Others have rejected God so they choose something else to worship.

Good discussion and I welcome the dialog. No harm in having peaceful discussions. Good day sir.

[R2Dawg]

I've never thought "you better believe what I believe or you will go to HELL for eternity!" was a very good sales pitch for converting people to Christianity. So you're telling non-Christians that all of their relatives who've already died are currently being tortured (or some kind of unpleasantness, depending on the exact group) that will last forever and ever? I've always preferred the Catholic approach of only a very small number of truly unrepentant and evil people go to Hell, while most everyone else goes to Purgatory first (whether they're Catholic or not, or even Christian or not) to atone for their sins and be cleansed of them before eventually going to Heaven to be a lot more palatable.

Of course whether something is palatable to me personally doesn't have any real bearing on whether it's true or not, but since there's never any strong evidence for any religious belief, people are going to believe what they're comfortable believing.

First I am not forcing my belief on anyone. I am just stating what the Bible (God) says. If it is offensive, be mad at God not me. We are not God and we don't know all how God thinks. The OT examples must be put in context. The context is there were many hard things that God allowed even commanded to direct His chosen people towards the Messiah (Jesus) to bring about Salvation to all. Yes some things are hard to accept but again He is God and we are not.

Great statement on something true or not is irrelevant on what I believe. Something is true because it is true not because I believe it. I'll say it again, eternity is too long to be wrong on this one. Think it through.