Pitching Coach Candidates

[The Federalist Engineer]

Not listed by choice or likelihood


Ostrander -USM
Mascara- Wake Forest (the Hot Name)
Kyle Bunn - Houston (the roommate)
Micha Posey - Dallas Baptist
Roger Williams - Louisville (long term UL coach)
Jerry Oakes - Elon
Jason Jackson - Alabama
Austin Knight - East Carolina (former Ole Miss player)
Sean Snedeker - Lamar


I would happy to welcome the Bama coach as a proven SEC coach and succeeding in performance and recruiting. Ostrander is the leading USM HC candidate. Mascara is now widely acknowledged as the developer of WFs pitching success, so he would be on many Schools HC radar.

[AlSwearengen]

Ostrander has been named head coach. That was a done deal a couple years ago.

[MaroonFlounder]

Not listed by choice or likelihood


Ostrander -USM
Mascara- Wake Forest (the Hot Name)
Kyle Bunn - Houston (the roommate)
Micha Posey - Dallas Baptist
Roger Williams - Louisville (long term UL coach)
Jerry Oakes - Elon
Jason Jackson - Alabama
Austin Knight - East Carolina (former Ole Miss player)
Sean Snedeker - Lamar


I would happy to welcome the Bama coach as a proven SEC coach and succeeding in performance and recruiting. Ostrander is the leading USM HC candidate. Mascara is now widely acknowledged as the developer of WFs pitching success, so he would be on many Schools HC radar.
You literally missed the one that is already penciled in unofficially.

[Cowbell]

Frank Anderson at Tennessee is making $360k. He was a head coach at Houston and at Ok state where he took both to postseason regularly. Top 20 pitching staff nationally the last 5 years. If I'm lemonis, I throw the bank at him and flip Vitello the bird.

[Cowbell]

You literally missed the one that is already penciled in unofficially.
Jay Powell 😂

[The Federalist Engineer]

You literally missed the one that is already penciled in unofficially.

I'm not enamored with that rumor, I'm just hoping it's not true.

If it works, great. If it doesn't, then we should be looking for a new HC next year

[SpaceBully]

Jackson-Bama
Mascara-Wake Forest

Both studs. Byrne isn't likely to let Jackson get away though.

[KB21]

The rumored candidate is one of the elite pitching coaches in college baseball.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Jackson-Bama
Mascara-Wake Forest

Both studs. Byrne isn't likely to let Jackson get away though.

Then Byrne has to give him the big job. He might just do that.

[CaptainObvious]

Josh McDonald - UConn
Kirk Saarloos-TCU
Jerry Meyers- Middle Tennessee

[msudawg1200]

Kirk Saarloos-TCU


Is not leaving HC of TCU to become our PC

[AlSwearengen]

The rumored candidate is one of the elite pitching coaches in college baseball.

Who the **** is the rumored candidate?

[State82]

Is not leaving HC of TCU to become our PC

What?? You don't think that a P5 head coach in his second season would leave to become an assistant under a guy with a huge bullseye on his back next year? Seems perfectly logical to me.*****

[The Federalist Engineer]

Who the **** is the rumored candidate?

I gather it's a dude from Ok State - Rob Walton

NJ guy, HC experience at Oral Roberts (Tulsa-Ok) that played at OKState in the 80s and then has coached there for 10 or so years. Seems that he likes Stillwater.

[Patrick Tibbons]

Haha these names on here so far are hilarious. We have two head coaches named as potential pitching coach candidates.

Carry on.

[Todd4State]

Rob Walton. The end.

Unless it gets Schlossnagled.

[Leroy Jenkins]

If Lemon was class of 1993 and Bunn was class of 1999, how were they roommates? Was it after college? He was Indiana like Lemon. He went to the supers with ole miss, Clemson, and Alabama, and you would think he could get better talent at MSU

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I gather it's a dude from Ok State - Rob Walton

NJ guy, HC experience at Oral Roberts (Tulsa-Ok) that played at OKState in the 80s and then has coached there for 10 or so years. Seems that he likes Stillwater.

And that would be a VERY mediocre hire. I posted in another thread when it came up but here's the guys last 7 years of stats. I go back 7 years because 7 years ago was his best season and I don't want anyone claiming I'm being unfair by "only" going back 3 or 5 seasons.

These are his staffs last 7 ERA finishes relative to the 9 team BIG-12 conference, starting with '23 and ending with '16:

5th, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 2nd. Total average finish: 5th out of 9.

If the best we can do is a guy that's putting out slightly below average ERAs in the big 12, god help us.

[mparkerfd20]

Word I've heard is we've hired Muscara, but will not be named until their season completes. Take it for what it's worth.

[CaptainObvious]

Is not leaving HC of TCU to become our PC

Can he come as our head coach then?

Cool name though.

[CaptainObvious]

Rob Walton. The end.

Unless it gets Schlossnagled.

Isn?t he kind of busy counting his $$$Billions? Is WalMart in that big of trouble that an heir has to resort to coaching baseball?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Word I've heard is we've hired Muscara, but will not be named until their season completes. Take it for what it's worth.

That would be an A+++ hire. Credit where it's due to Lemonis, he truly is a great recruiter if he can land Muscara.

[KOdawg1]

Word I've heard is we've hired Muscara, but will not be named until their season completes. Take it for what it's worth.

We're not hiring Muscara. It's not happening.

He's gonna be a HC

[KOdawg1]

And that would be a VERY mediocre hire. I posted in another thread when it came up but here's the guys last 7 years of stats. I go back 7 years because 7 years ago was his best season and I don't want anyone claiming I'm being unfair by "only" going back 3 or 5 seasons.

These are his staffs last 7 ERA finishes relative to the 9 team BIG-12 conference, starting with '23 and ending with '16:

5th, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 2nd. Total average finish: 5th out of 9.

If the best we can do is a guy that's putting out slightly below average ERAs in the big 12, god help us.
Where do those numbers rank nationally?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Where do those numbers rank nationally?

Don't know, and frankly don't really care since there's so many baseball teams at a lower level. I would like to know where he ranks in a "national P5 only" comparison.

All we know is that within his conference, with 100% his guys, he's 5th out of 9.

[sandjunky]

Don't know, and frankly don't really care since there's so many baseball teams at a lower level. I would like to know where he ranks in a "national P5 only" comparison.

All we know is that within his conference, with 100% his guys, he's 5th out of 9.
So on par with Lemonis at IU - middle of the pack

[SpaceBully]

Then Byrne has to give him the big job. He might just do that.

If I was Byrne, I certainly would.

[BigDawg81]

Word I've heard is we've hired Muscara, but will not be named until their season completes. Take it for what it's worth.
Well, it?s too bad that Muscara has told us No. It?s going to be Walton barring any shenanigans .

[Really Clark?]

Well, it?s too bad that Muscara has told us No. It?s going to be Walton barring any shenanigans .

This^^^

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I don't know how we're supposed Tobe excited about it.

Can we do worse? Yes. But is he a really good PC that'll build us a + staff? No. Seems like the kind of hire that can improve us just enough to make a regional and keep Lemonis but not enough to actually get us anywhere. Maybe that's just me being negative though.

His numbers aren't great, that's all I'll say

[BigDawg81]

I don't know how we're supposed Tobe excited about it.

Can we do worse? Yes. But is he a really good PC that'll build us a + staff? No. Seems like the kind of hire that can improve us just enough to make a regional and keep Lemonis but not enough to actually get us anywhere. Maybe that's just me being negative though.

His numbers aren't great, that's all I'll say
Who are you referencing?

[sandjunky]

So
10.8k per 9 to 4.4bb per 9 with 44hbp with 979 fielding

Vs

10.7K per 9 to 6.3 bb per 9 with 46 hbp with 964 fielding

[EdwardDrayton]

We're not hiring Muscara. It's not happening.

He's gonna be a HC

If he takes our pitching coach job, he's gonna be a head coach right here midseason.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Who are you referencing?

Walton, from Oklahoma State. That's who everyone seems to agree were hiring

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

So
10.8k per 9 to 4.4bb per 9 with 44hbp with 979 fielding

Vs

10.7K per 9 to 6.3 bb per 9 with 46 hbp with 964 fielding

I mean Walton will definitely be an improvement over Fox don't get me wrong... he just seems so... mediocre. Which in the SEC, a mediocre P5 coach is a below average SEC coach cause the teams here invest in baseball and attract the best coaches.

If Walton is 5th out of 9 total in the big 12, he'll probably be 10th out of 16 total in the SEC (Texas and OU joining soon)

[BigDawg81]

I mean Walton will definitely be an improvement over Fox don't get me wrong... he just seems so... mediocre. Which in the SEC, a mediocre P5 coach is a below average SEC coach cause the teams here invest in baseball and attract the best coaches.

If Walton is 5th out of 9 total in the big 12, he'll probably be 10th out of 16 total in the SEC (Texas and OU joining soon) His Team ERA is consistently under 5 as it is right now. How many games does State win if the pitching is giving up less than 5 rpg? We are talking about hosting a regional right now. Also, look at the program right now. Lemonis might not be here this time next year. I admit it?s not a homerun hire but it?s a good hire especially with situation we are in right now.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

His Team ERA is consistently under 5 as it is right now. How many games does State win if the pitching is giving up less than 5 rpg? We are talking about hosting a regional right now. Also, look at the program right now. Lemonis might not be here this time next year. I admit it?s not a homerun hire but it?s a good hire especially with situation we are in right now.

Again, i think he's good enough to improve us and get us to a regional. But you can't just assume his ERA from another conference will be the same in the SEC.

What we know is that vs his conference peers, playing the same competition, 4 of 8 other pitching coaches have lower staff ERAs. We can either conclude 1) Walton is mediocre (my contention) or 2) walton is really good but he BIG-12 has insanely good pitching coaches. They certainly do have some good baseball programs, so I guess 2) is possible. But it's less likely than 1) imo.

At the end of the day I think people are scared to walk into our shitshow of a pitching staff and work under a HC with the hottest seat in the country. "you have a massive project and you'll probably be looking for work this time next year" isn't a good sales pitch, even with the money we can offer

[sandjunky]

His Team ERA is consistently under 5 as it is right now. How many games does State win if the pitching is giving up less than 5 rpg? We are talking about hosting a regional right now. Also, look at the program right now. Lemonis might not be here this time next year. I admit it?s not a homerun hire but it?s a good hire especially with situation we are in right now.
Umm it?s not under 5 big guy - it?s actually 5.25

[Tripp McNeely]

Umm it?s not under 5 big guy - it?s actually 5.25

Hell, I'd still take that!

[BigDawg81]

Umm it?s not under 5 big guy - it?s actually 5.25 you?re right but he is going to be the pitching barring something off the wall happens.

[sandjunky]

So really no one knows anything

It?ll be x unless something happens

Then it?s not them - something must?ve happened

Always a cya so you (plural) can be right either way

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Umm it?s not under 5 big guy - it?s actually 5.25

Which IF we want to compare the raw ERAs across conferences to the SEC 5.25 would be 9th in the SEC. So if you think the 9th best pitching staff in the SEC is the best we can do, it's a good hire.

And 9th might be the best we can do next year because our staff is a mess, but he's 9th with 100% his own recruits so would he really be 9th with our crapshow? And are we really happy with 9th as our long term expectation?

[mparkerfd20]

Well, it?s too bad that Muscara has told us No. It?s going to be Walton barring any shenanigans .

Yep, that's in line with the update I've received. Muscara said no thanks. Rob Walton is on deck.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Mike Bobo

[Captain Falcon]

Umm it?s not under 5 big guy - it?s actually 5.25

This is his worst staff in several years but they?re still near the top of the Big 12 in K?s and Walk/Strikeout ratio.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We are never going to get what we think we deserve till we move on. No big time PC is coming to work with Lemonis. I just think we have wasted 2024. I would love to be wrong

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This is his worst staff in several years but they?re still near the top of the Big 12 in K?s and Walk/Strikeout ratio.

Lol again, why would icare about Ks and walks except as they relate to allowing runs? The guys staffs are mediocre at what matters. That's what I care about.

Say we had a hitter that hit .200 and had an obp of .250, but he had the fastest swing on the team and one hit had a 119mph exit velo. Do you keep him in the lineup? No! Because he's hitting. 200 and can't get on base! Swinging hard is part of getting hits, but actually getting hits/on base is what we want.

[confucius say]

Can Walton recruit?

[sandjunky]

This is his worst staff in several years but they?re still near the top of the Big 12 in K?s and Walk/Strikeout ratio.

So he poorly recruited and developed this staff ?wouldn?t expect anything less

Btw xbh given up - 165 to state?s 173

[ZedFedder]

Hmm. Yeah? this doesn?t scream excitement. We will improve I think because? how can we not? But I wish this would be better.

[TheLostDawg]

Can Walton recruit?

Yes how has that team recruited compared to the rest of the big 12? If pitching is top 4? And they are towards the back then he's doing more with less and might could do good here. On the other hand...

[TNDawg35]

Lord some of y’all just like to be miserable…

[sandjunky]

Yes how has that team recruited compared to the rest of the big 12? If pitching is top 4? And they are towards the back then he's doing more with less and might could do good here. On the other hand...

OSU Recruiting conference (national)

2020 - 3rd (19th)
2021 -3rd (23rd)
2022- 5th (28th)
2023-6th (60th)

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lord some of y?all just like to be miserable?

I really don't. Believe it or not, I was quite happy when we won a Natty and I was quite happy to see that Jan's and Purcell seem like good coaches. Leaches first game where we threw for 623 yards was fun as hell.

But I call a spade a spade. Lemonis is not good at his job, and Walton is not an elite pitching coach. If we all agree on those points I'll be quiet. If someone can out argue me and convince me they're great ill be much happier. So far all I'm hearing to counter me on both fronts is uh... lackluster at best. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Todd4State and C34 bring up these threads to me next June to call me an idiot because that means we turned it around. Bit ill call a spade a spade

[BigDawg81]

I really don't. Believe it or not, I was quite happy when we won a Natty and I was quite happy to see that Jan's and Purcell seem like good coaches. Leaches first game where we threw for 623 yards was fun as hell.

But I call a spade a spade. Lemonis is not good at his job, and Walton is not an elite pitching coach. If we all agree on those points I'll be quiet. If someone can out argue me and convince me they're great I?ll be much happier. So far all I'm hearing to counter me on both fronts is uh... lackluster at best. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Todd4State and C34 bring up these threads to me next June to call me an idiot because that means we turned it around. Bit I?ll call a spade a spade haha who did you think Lemonis would get as a PC? Lemonis is on the hot seat and will get fired if he fails to make the NCAAT. Lemonis is about to get a P5 pitching coach at a good program. I really thought Lemonis was going to have to hit a G5 PC.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

haha who did you think Lemonis would get as a PC? Lemonis is on the hot seat and will get fired if he fails to make the NCAAT. Lemonis is about to get a P5 pitching coach at a good program. I really thought Lemonis was going to have to hit a G5 PC.

Agreed we should have fired Lemonis. I've been VERY vocal on it. HOWEVER, the people who wanted to keep him based a lot of their logic on how much better an "elite" PC would make us. Well, if hire this guy that argument for Lemonis is gone too.

But I agree we were never going to get an elite coach. "Come to our shitshow where the HC is on the hottest seat in the country, but at least you'll get paid 200k more here for that 1 season before you're fired!" Isn't a good recruiting pitch. The 90% of us who wanted Lemo fired already knew this. But that 10% sure do like their optimistic hypothetical and only enough I don't see them in this thread hyping up the new PC...

[maroonmania]

Lord some of y’all just like to be miserable…

Lemonis and crew have made being miserable pretty easy by going consecutive years not only missing the NCAA tournament but the SEC tournament as well. You know how bad you have to be to miss the SEC tournament in back to back years?

[The Federalist Engineer]

I hope this Walmart Coach works out but ... something tells me the clown car is going off the cliff for good next May.

[ZedFedder]

Here is the good thing about being MSU in baseball. Let?s say Lemonis doesn?t improve enough next year, and he gets canned. You hire the right dude who can come in and recruit the portal, and in one season you can be back.

[schddog72]

Not listed by choice or likelihood


Ostrander -USM
Mascara- Wake Forest (the Hot Name)
Kyle Bunn - Houston (the roommate)
Micha Posey - Dallas Baptist
Roger Williams - Louisville (long term UL coach)
Jerry Oakes - Elon
Jason Jackson - Alabama
Austin Knight - East Carolina (former Ole Miss player)
Sean Snedeker - Lamar


I would happy to welcome the Bama coach as a proven SEC coach and succeeding in performance and recruiting. Ostrander is the leading USM HC candidate. Mascara is now widely acknowledged as the developer of WFs pitching success, so he would be on many Schools HC radar.

There's nine (9) names on this list; I doubt any of them would be included on the "list of 1,000 phone calls" that Lem supposedly received about the PC job. In any event, I would guess that 995 were from HS/JC coaches throughout the Southeast USA. Supposedly the PC's at Fordyce, AR and Toomsuba, AL are very good. Go Bugs go!!

[Cloak]

Yep, that's in line with the update I've received. Muscara said no thanks. Rob Walton is on deck.

Phew. Now we know Walton isn't a candidate. I was worried there for a bit.

[mparkerfd20]

🤣🤣

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

There's nine (9) names on this list; I doubt any of them would be included on the "list of 1,000 phone calls" that Lem supposedly received about the PC job. In any event, I would guess that 995 were from HS/JC coaches throughout the Southeast USA. Supposedly the PC's at Fordyce, AR and Toomsuba, AL are very good. Go Bugs go!!

Toomsuba is in Mississippi, just outside of Meridian.

[SpaceBully]

I mean Walton will definitely be an improvement over Fox don't get me wrong... he just seems so... mediocre. Which in the SEC, a mediocre P5 coach is a below average SEC coach cause the teams here invest in baseball and attract the best coaches.

If Walton is 5th out of 9 total in the big 12, he'll probably be 10th out of 16 total in the SEC (Texas and OU joining soon)

Lemon doesn't want a PC who is too good. Might make it easier for Zach to make lemonade!

[CaptainObvious]

Wasn?t Foxhall a hot shot PC we stole from NC State? I thought he was one of the best back when Lemonis brought him over. I am old enough to remember He won Assistant of the year way back in 2021.

[AlSwearengen]

Wasn?t Foxhall a hot shot PC we stole from NC State? I thought he was one of the best back when Lemonis brought him over. I am old enough to remember He won Assistant of the year way back in 2021.

Taking a guess, but I think Foxhall changed philosophy too much and got caught up with the high spin/up in the zone methodology. If what some say is true, he had kids trying to do things that they weren’t suited for.

At the same time, he didn’t have J.T. Ginn throwing up in the zone with spin even though it may have helped his arm health. Who knows what the whole truth is.

[DawgFromOxford]

Wasn?t Foxhall a hot shot PC we stole from NC State? I thought he was one of the best back when Lemonis brought him over. I am old enough to remember He won Assistant of the year way back in 2021.

Yeah. I remember most folks on here being excited about the hire

[CaptainObvious]

Taking a guess, but I think Foxhall changed philosophy too much and got caught up with the high spin/up in the zone methodology. If what some say is true, he had kids trying to do things that they weren’t suited for.

At the same time, he didn’t have J.T. Ginn throwing up in the zone with spin even though it may have helped his arm health. Who knows what the whole truth is.

Ahhh. So HE and Lemonis recruited players to one philosophy and thought they could get them to work with their (new) philosophy. OR, they recruited TO their philosophy and did a sucky job of putting it into action. Either way, they both sucked and only one lost his job because of the suckage.

[Cooterpoot]

Foxhall has never been great. He just happened to be good friends with our head coach. He was strictly a metrics guy who went with the top of the zone, never pitch to contact, nibbling ass philosophy. We struck out a lot of hitters & gave up a lot of bombs. I do think the juiced ball has hurt all of college pitching. So has the bullshit K zone and pitch clock. But Foxy was a cluster 17. He stopped teaching and just had guys throwing it. His recruiting was a steaming pile of shit. Too many hard throwing projects and not enough elite pitchers. There's no way we can get enough pitching in one year to fix this it's so bad. Got to hope the new guy can get some juice out of some of our current guys.

[ZedFedder]

We need to be on the phone pronto with any and every transfer like this

https://twitter.com/KendallRogers/status/1662122528540704770?cxt=HHwWhIC-7cTohZEuAAAA

[Cowbell]

Again - Frank Anderson at Tennessee is making $360k. He was a head coach at Houston and at Ok state where he took both to postseason regularly. Top 20 pitching staff nationally the last 5 years. If I'm lemonis, I throw the bank at him and flip Vitello the bird.

[basedog]

Again - Frank Anderson at Tennessee is making $360k. He was a head coach at Houston and at Ok state where he took both to postseason regularly. Top 20 pitching staff nationally the last 5 years. If I'm lemonis, I throw the bank at him and flip Vitello the bird.

It's already a done deal on pitching Coach. As soon as season is over it will be announced. Pretty good reason he is leaving for Msu, can't blame him either.

Btw, sometimes an assistant coach is dealt with what the HC can do as far as recruiting players. Some assistants can only work with so much and promises being broken.

[confucius say]

If fox had a staff of Bednar and sims and Cade he'd be fine. And we all agree he sucks.
So, recruit recruit recruit.

[Cooterpoot]

Don't be surprised if we pick up a couple recruits when Walton makes the move.

[Todd4State]

Wasn?t Foxhall a hot shot PC we stole from NC State? I thought he was one of the best back when Lemonis brought him over. I am old enough to remember He won Assistant of the year way back in 2021.

Foxhall wasn't his first choice. That was Nate Yeskie. Foxhall wasn't a bad pick up at the time based on his track record.

I think he lost his way while he was here.

[CaptainObvious]

Foxhall wasn't his first choice. That was Nate Yeskie. Foxhall wasn't a bad pick up at the time based on his track record.

I think he lost his way while he was here.

Apparently Lemonis lost his way as well. But, alas, he is still here. Sigh

[Coach34]

Again - Frank Anderson at Tennessee is making $360k. He was a head coach at Houston and at Ok state where he took both to postseason regularly. Top 20 pitching staff nationally the last 5 years. If I'm lemonis, I throw the bank at him and flip Vitello the bird.

and Frank Anderson wouldnt leave Tenn for 500K in Sville.

[PawDawg]

It's already a done deal on pitching Coach. As soon as season is over it will be announced. Pretty good reason he is leaving for Msu, can't blame him either.

Btw, sometimes an assistant coach is dealt with what the HC can do as far as recruiting players. Some assistants can only work with so much and promises being broken.

Is it Matt Hobbs the Arkansas pitching coach?

[Cowbell]

It's already a done deal on pitching Coach. As soon as season is over it will be announced. Pretty good reason he is leaving for Msu, can't blame him either.

Btw, sometimes an assistant coach is dealt with what the HC can do as far as recruiting players. Some assistants can only work with so much and promises being broken.

Do you like the hire? And does Cade?

[Todd4State]

Apparently Lemonis lost his way as well. But, alas, he is still here. Sigh

We'll find out next year. He showed me way more signs of figuring it out than Foxhall did.

[maddog]

It's already a done deal on pitching Coach. As soon as season is over it will be announced. Pretty good reason he is leaving for Msu, can't blame him either.

Btw, sometimes an assistant coach is dealt with what the HC can do as far as recruiting players. Some assistants can only work with so much and promises being broken. Is it Matt Hobbs?

[The Federalist Engineer]

Is it Matt Hobbs?

Interesting first post. Don't worry MSU is not taking your PC. But who ever it is, they are not a last place team and are still playing in the post season.

WPS sent you?

[KOdawg1]

Why do we have Arkansas trolls?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He showed me way more signs of figuring it out than Foxhall did.

2022: #10 in scoring, #1 in defense, 14th overall in conference play.

2023: #10 in scoring, #14 in defense, 13th overall in conference play.

So much "figuring it out" on the non-pitchi g side of things it's hard to handle

[LibraryDawg]

Bump.....Any new info?

[BigDawg81]

We will find out soon if it?s really OK State pitching coach. OK State is on the verge of ending their season.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We will find out soon if it?s really OK State pitching coach. OK State is on the verge of ending their season.

They've given up 20 runs in 6 1/3 IP so far.

I hate to take anything from a small sample size, but geeze man... with his 5th out of 9 average staff ERA this shitshow being the best arms OSU has feels like the cherry on top of a crap hire sandwich.

[The Federalist Engineer]

They've given up 20 runs in 20 1/3 IP so far.

I hate to take anything from a small sample size, but geeze man... with his 5th out of 9 average staff ERA this shitshow being the best arms OSU has feels like the cherry on top of a crap hire sandwich.

OSU looks like garbage today. Like you said, small insignificant sample.

It's just a home regional with the season on the line, so it's probably not something that really motivated them to provide a best effort ***

[sandjunky]

OSU coach will fit in nicely
6 hr given up and 3 2B with 6Bb

[CaptainObvious]

Well to fair, Walton is more like Mullen. Once he found out he had another job waiting, he checked out in his team. He probably told his pitching staff he was leaving for State at season?s end and they wanted to help him pack!🤣🤣🤣

[The Federalist Engineer]

Clemson Vs Tennessee is a great ballgame

Super Regional quality with 1st rounders banging heads

[basedog]

Let’s be honest, IF Walton indeed has been offered, it’s a little concerning after those two loses this weekend. At first I thought he may be ok, I looked up his resume and he has had success. I hope I’m wrong and the ones who think Lemonis staying is good, feed the sheep!

Maybe it will be a surprise who we get.

[TNDawg35]

Lord some of y’all need to find another hobby. Y’all have already made your minds up that a guy who hasn’t even stepped foot on campus, or better yet, accepted the job, already is going to suck. So of y’all need to take a step back and relax. Look at it this way. If he sucks, you all will get your wish and Lemonis will be fired next year and you all can hire Joe Torre or whoever the hell y’all are gushing over by then..

[SPMT]

Lord some of y?all need to find another hobby. Y?all have already made your minds up that a guy who hasn?t even stepped foot on campus, or better yet, accepted the job, already is going to suck. So of y?all need to take a step back and relax. Look at it this way. If he sucks, you all will get your wish and Lemonis will be fired next year and you all can hire Joe Torre or whoever the hell y?all are gushing over by then..

Every fan base does this. Every. No big deal people being concerned.

[EdwardDrayton]

Lord some of y?all need to find another hobby. Y?all have already made your minds up that a guy who hasn?t even stepped foot on campus, or better yet, accepted the job, already is going to suck. So of y?all need to take a step back and relax. Look at it this way. If he sucks, you all will get your wish and Lemonis will be fired next year and you all can hire Joe Torre or whoever the hell y?all are gushing over by then..

Ahem. We've been State fans all our lives. We are professionals at this. :)

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lord some of y’all need to find another hobby. Y’all have already made your minds up that a guy who hasn’t even stepped foot on campus, or better yet, accepted the job, already is going to suck. So of y’all need to take a step back and relax. Look at it this way. If he sucks, you all will get your wish and Lemonis will be fired next year and you all can hire Joe Torre or whoever the hell y’all are gushing over by then..

Sorry we CARE about State baseball and want it to succeed. And WTF is this "we can't judge a giy if he's not been on campus" logic? We're judging him based on his actual resume of being a P5 Pitching coach for over a decade. What do you want us to use instead?

And nobody wants State to fail so we can "win". I hope Todd4State and C34 are rubbing my takes in my face late June of next year because that means we've had success.

But, I do not believe the guy who crashed the bus in the first place should continue driving it. I don't think Lemonis knows what he's doing and I fear we're not only wasting next season by keeping him, but are digging our program into a hole more and more.

I don't freak out about say, Virginia Techs's pitching coach hire, because I don't give a F if it works out for them or not. Would you rather we quit caring? Because as long as we care, we WILL look up the resume of the new pitching coach and discuss it. WTF do you think message boards are for?

[basedog]

I’m not freaking out, but those last two games were really really bad. Walton as I’ve stated has had success, I hope whoever we get has success.

[SPMT]

Sorry we CARE about State baseball and want it to succeed. And WTF is this "we can't judge a giy if he's not been on campus" logic? We're judging him based on his actual resume of being a P5 Pitching coach for over a decade. What do you want us to use instead?

And nobody wants State to fail so we can "win". I hope Todd4State and C34 are rubbing my takes in my face late June of next year because that means we've had success.

But, I do not believe the guy who crashed the bus in the first place should continue driving it. I don't think Lemonis knows what he's doing and I fear we're not only wasting next season by keeping him, but are digging our program into a hole more and more.

I don't freak out about say, Virginia Techs's pitching coach hire, because I don't give a F if it works out for them or not. Would you rather we quit caring? Because as long as we care, we WILL look up the resume of the new pitching coach and discuss it. WTF do you think message boards are for?


No shit, right!


If y’all aren’t concerned about a resume I’ll take the HC job for $1mill a year and then y’all can evaluate me when I’m on campus. I’ll give a low buyout, something like payoff my house and another $2mill. I’m outta y’all’s hair if I’m a problem.

[EdwardDrayton]

Clemson Vs Tennessee is a great ballgame

Super Regional quality with 1st rounders banging heads

It's been a very entertaining game!!

[Cowbell]

I?m not freaking out, but those last two games were really really bad. Walton as I?ve stated has had success, I hope whoever we get has success.

Walton doesn't have any more success than Fox had when we hired him. I hope this is not the direction we are going

[Topbulldawg]

Here is a bigger sample size of runs in his last 10 post season games

18 runs
6 runs
7 runs
10 runs
15 runs
20 runs
5 runs
13 runs
3 runs
14 runs

11 runs a game

[ZedFedder]

Here is a bigger sample size of runs in his last 10 post season games

18 runs
6 runs
7 runs
10 runs
15 runs
20 runs
5 runs
13 runs
3 runs
14 runs

11 runs a game

Sheesh.

[Cowbell]

If this is the hire, probably couldn't be a worse PR move for Lemonis. He will surely need a miracle season to overcome it. Which will take a massive amount of Portal/NIL

[civildawg]

Yikes. Better hope this is a smokescreen

[CadaverDawg]

I'd rather hire Bill Walton

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Whomever we hire its probably for just one season anyways.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Whomever we hire its probably for just one season anyways.

Don't know what thread it was but TOdd said we're giving a multiple year guaranteed contract to get around the fact nobody wants to take a new job for 1 year till Lemonis gets canned. Of course that means we can't really fire Lemonis next year as not many HCs want to be stuck with a PC they've never met.

[schddog72]

Toomsuba is in Mississippi, just outside of Meridian.

Oops!! I stand corrected!!

[Goldendawg]

Don't know what thread it was but TOdd said we're giving a multiple year guaranteed contract to get around the fact nobody wants to take a new job for 1 year till Lemonis gets canned. Of course that means we can't really fire Lemonis next year as not many HCs want to be stuck with a PC they've never met.

If this is true, we must have the "Keith Carter Book on Contract Negotiations for College Coaches".****

[EdwardDrayton]

If this is true, we must have the "Keith Carter Book on Contract Negotiations for College Coaches".****

If this plays out like it's looking, there's potential for our program to be down for quite awhile.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Finally looked up OK States recruiting classes. In 16 they were ranked 3rd in the Big12. 17- 3rd, 18-4th

So it seems Walton (average ERA finish is 5th in the big12) does have talent to work with, and just doesn't develop it better than his peers.

[LibraryDawg]

One would think that if it were truly Walton, the trigger would have been pulled by now. So, is anyone hearing anything?

[WSOPdawg]

One would think that if it were truly Walton, the trigger would have been pulled by now. So, is anyone hearing anything?

Exactly, the longer there is no Walton announcement, the better for us (ie, Walton = meh)... I'm hoping we can do significantly better than him.

[TrapGame]

Exactly, the longer there is no Walton announcement, the better for us (ie, Walton = meh)... I'm hoping we can do significantly better than him.

Or in true MSU fashion we screw the pooch.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Wrong thread

[WSOPdawg]

Or in true MSU fashion we screw the pooch.

Unfortunately, more times than not. :(

[Leeshouldveflanked]

If it was the Oklahoma State guy wouldnt it already been announced?

[Pancho]

Nope

[AlSwearengen]

I’ve been told that there are issues with the head coach being a micro manager and not doing a great job of it, which is why Walton has clashed with him and looking to leave.

Without looking, i wonder if the head coach’s back ground is as a pitching coach.

I’ve also been told Walton is highly thought of in the baseball community. We heard that about Foxhall though. I do think Foxhall changed theory when he got here and it hurt him.

[Offshore Dawg]

I'd rather hire Bill Walton

Dead body dawg, glad to see you back posting.

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/dVvdDXKK/IMG-4640.jpg

[Really Clark?]

https://i.postimg.cc/dVvdDXKK/IMG-4640.jpg

Not bad. Needs fire coming out of the exhaust.

[Cooterpoot]

Hold up

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

Perfection

[Mjoelner34]

https://i.postimg.cc/dVvdDXKK/IMG-4640.jpg

And, this thing literally comes with bucket seats.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I’ve been told that there are issues with the head coach being a micro manager and not doing a great job of it, which is why Walton has clashed with him and looking to leave.

Without looking, i wonder if the head coach’s back ground is as a pitching coach.

I’ve also been told Walton is highly thought of in the baseball community. We heard that about Foxhall though. I do think Foxhall changed theory when he got here and it hurt him.

Walton may be a great guy and "highly thought of", but at the end kf the day I care about the results. "We would have great staffs but the HC screws it up" may be true, but 9/10 times excuses like that are BS. Give me good on field results or get goin as far as I'm concerned

[CaptainObvious]

If Lemonis and Selmon want to hitch their wagon to another problem that leads to even more bad results, it just shows, Leadership at MSU is not what it needs to be. I?ll wait and see if this is the guy, but even if he isn?t, the guy needs to have a solid resume, not from 10 years ago, but including most recent performance. It?s kinda of similar to Lemonis resume. It wasn?t that great when State hired him, he improved it with 2019 and 2021 success, but crashed it with his last two seasons. Every corporation writes in separation pay clauses in contracts but only AFTER writing in Performance Clauses. College Athletics should be no different. There are rules and regulations that support the Enployee more than the Employer. So the Employer must write contracts with Performance review clauses that leave them protected if they need to fire an under-performing coach. College Athletics has made a mess of this and is probably one of the worst examples of how to run a business.

[Really Clark?]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

Now we are talking!

[Cooterpoot]

Walton may be a great guy and "highly thought of", but at the end kf the day I care about the results. "We would have great staffs but the HC screws it up" may be true, but 9/10 times excuses like that are BS. Give me good on field results or get goin as far as I'm concerned

When the HC is going behind the pitching coaches back and they have words over it, it's a problem. I'm not sold Walton is some guru like some people say, but he's solid. Now, this talk of us dragging this thing out now, that's more concerning. We have a coach that's been on vacation, guys that had been waiting to go to summer ball leaving, and a delayed coach search. It's what State fans have become accustomed to and we're hopeful we hired an AD that fixed some of this, but that's not the case. My hope is it's someone still in the supers and this is all working out.

[Saltydog]

And, this thing literally comes with bucket seats.

Post of the day...........

[EdwardDrayton]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

Y'all are killin' me!! LOL!! This is HOF stuff!!!

[State82]

And, this thing literally comes with bucket seats.

Restaurant quality right there.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I wonder if Gannett Corp (Clarion Ledger) messed up Lemonis' plans.

If you query "Rob Walton" and then click "news" in google. You have the article about "1,000 Calls" about the job. Then it mentions Rob Walmart and the Bama coach by name.

Seems that Lemonis does not know that Gannet/Clarion Ledger are activists in creating problems for MSU. Why even talk to these snakes?

I would have said, "I have to focus on my players, competing in each game, and making the post-season. I have no other details and I do not have a short list, the best coaches I know are all focused on the post-season too."

Or you say something completely crazy, "I am going to see if Justin Verlander and Kate Upton want to move to Starkville. We have room for 3 buckets in the dugout." That would create buzz and laughs.

[The Federalist Engineer]

When the HC is going behind the pitching coaches back and they have words over it, it's a problem. I'm not sold Walton is some guru like some people say, but he's solid. Now, this talk of us dragging this thing out now, that's more concerning. We have a coach that's been on vacation, guys that had been waiting to go to summer ball leaving, and a delayed coach search. It's what State fans have become accustomed to and we're hopeful we hired an AD that fixed some of this, but that's not the case. My hope is it's someone still in the supers and this is all working out.

This is the deal, if your PC candidate made the Supers, then he might be getting a Head Coach job. Then you have no PC. If Bama beats Wake, then forget Jackson coming to town, if that is the candidate. If Bama even makes the Wake series competitive, then Jackson will be the Bama Head Coach. The only school in America that would by-pass a coach that beats a National Seed on the Road in a brilliant Super, Makes Omaha, and finishes Top-4 and then hires a Nobody Coach... that would be John Cohen and Mississippi State.

Also, there is an LSU PC job opening these days.

If you are the best PC in America, do you join forces with the ascendant Jay Johnson or the dead-man-walking Chris Lemonis?

Lemonis is on Vacation? How does an MSU coach make vacation plans for early June when he is supposed to be hosting a Super at the Dude at that time? Really?

[Leroy Jenkins]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

This is top shelf work right here. If it has a personalized license plate that said "spoiled", it would be one of the greatest things I have seen.

[Cowbell]

When the HC is going behind the pitching coaches back and they have words over it, it's a problem. I'm not sold Walton is some guru like some people say, but he's solid. Now, this talk of us dragging this thing out now, that's more concerning. We have a coach that's been on vacation, guys that had been waiting to go to summer ball leaving, and a delayed coach search. It's what State fans have become accustomed to and we're hopeful we hired an AD that fixed some of this, but that's not the case. My hope is it's someone still in the supers and this is all working out.

Coach went on vacation?

[confucius say]

This is the deal, if your PC candidate made the Supers, then he might be getting a Head Coach job. Then you have no PC. If Bama beats Wake, then forget Jackson coming to town, if that is the candidate. If Bama even makes the Wake series competitive, then Jackson will be the Bama Head Coach. The only school in America that would by-pass a coach that beats a National Seed on the Road in a brilliant Super, Makes Omaha, and finishes Top-4 and then hires a Nobody Coach... that would be John Cohen and Mississippi State.

Also, there is an LSU PC job opening these days.

If you are the best PC in America, do you join forces with the ascendant Jay Johnson or the dead-man-walking Chris Lemonis?

Lemonis is on Vacation? How does an MSU coach make vacation plans for early June when he is supposed to be hosting a Super at the Dude at that time? Really?

I get it, LSU is a better job then us right now. But on the vacation, it's not like the guy had a planned vacation. The guy worked 15 hour days for a week straight and then was asked/told to go down to 30A and relax and play golf for a few days during a dead period. He was back by the end of last week. Also, there were multiple conversations last week with reps of a guy who could change our team.

The guy may never win another game, but just trying to clear the record.

[EdwardDrayton]

Coach went on vacation?

In about mid February or so

[KOdawg1]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

Post of the year nominee

[Cowbell]

https://i.postimg.cc/cL4r2ktx/IMG-4645.jpg

Can you put fox laying under the front of that

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/sXZ547Kr/IMG-4647.jpg

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

https://i.postimg.cc/sXZ547Kr/IMG-4647.jpg

Michelangelo, Picasso, Van Gogh, Cooterpoint. Proud to say i was here to see one of your early works

[Cowbell]

https://i.postimg.cc/sXZ547Kr/IMG-4647.jpg

Now this is just epic. I don't know any way to make this better....

[The Federalist Engineer]

Post of the year nominee

Cooterpoot has been solid all year. Up there with Hunter Hines, should have been nominated for a Ferris Trophy.

[Randolph Dupree]

https://i.postimg.cc/sXZ547Kr/IMG-4647.jpg

I'm speechless. It's beautiful.

[Goldendawg]

https://i.postimg.cc/sXZ547Kr/IMG-4647.jpg

It will come in 13th or 14th in its field unfortunately!

[Cooterpoot]

This pitching coach deal seems to be dragging out waiting on the Oral Roberts guy or another Super coach to interview maybe. We waited on Yeskie too, but if that's not announced this week, then I doubt it's happening. Rob Childress perhaps another name out there but doubt that. I can't see this dragging out past next week unless everyone told us to 17 off or our guy is in the CWS.

[Cooterpoot]

Was told there's one coach in particular, we want to talk to, but his team is still playing.
I think I know who based on some secondary talk. We need a couple teams to lose this weekend to speed this up.
I know who I want. Not sure it works out though.

[TrapGame]

Was told there's one coach in particular, we want to talk to, but his team is still playing.
I think I know who based on some secondary talk. We need a couple teams to lose this weekend to speed this up.
I know who I want. Not sure it works out though.

Mascara?

Steve was on OBB Thursday and just randomly threw out his name as someone we would wait on. I found that odd to just blurt out his name and saw he's a target we'd definitely wait on.

[Cooterpoot]

Mascara?

Steve was on OBB Thursday and just randomly threw out his name as someone we would wait on. I found that odd to just blurt out his name and saw he's a target we'd definitely wait on.

I can't see it. I'm sure we're interested though. I expect a couple names to come out after they're done. WF probably plays for awhile.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Has Lemonis returned from 30A yet?

[confucius say]

I hope AL doesn't hire their interim and he becomes available

[Cooterpoot]

I hope AL doesn't hire their interim and he becomes available

They're after the coach at Maryland. But a CWS run might change that.

[confucius say]

They're after the coach at Maryland. But a CWS run might change that.

Good. Jump on him then.

[Todd4State]

I can't see it. I'm sure we're interested though. I expect a couple names to come out after they're done. WF probably plays for awhile.

The rumor was he wanted a head coaching job.

If we asked about him a few weeks ago and turned us down because of that I could see us circling back to check on him if can't land a head coaching job this cycle.

[Cooterpoot]

The rumor was he wanted a head coaching job.

If we asked about him a few weeks ago and turned us down because of that I could see us circling back to check on himcan't land a head coaching job this cycle.

Can't see us waiting through the CWS just to start talking. They'll need to lose.

[CaptainObvious]

I?ll say it again. Time is of the Essence. The Real Estate Market around Starkville is thin. We need Lemonis House on the Market to double the average price per unit.

[Cooterpoot]

It's 90% chance it's going to be Walton.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

It's 90% chance it's going to be Walton.

What's the hold up on making it official? Is he the fall back guy incase we can't land our main target?

[Cooterpoot]

What's the hold up on making it official? Is he the fall back guy incase we can't land our main target?

Pretty much. We're still on one other but that's not going anywhere IMO. Wish it would but Walton is a solid coach.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Wish it would but Walton is a solid coach.

"Solid"...hat's probably the most generous way to say it and still be fair. I'd say "average", and "mediocre" are also fair.

He's going to be a MASSIVE improvement over Fox. Absolutely. We'll probably be good enough to make a regional. But Walton won't built an above average staff, even if he's got years and years to do so.

Todd said we were going to offer a multi year fully guaranteed contract so the PC coach wouldn't worry about being fired after 1 year. But that was a week or to ago and the situation is always fluid. I've also heard we're talking "2nd highest paid PC" money which is a massive overpay if we get Walton. What are you hearing on the contract front?

[Todd4State]

It's 90% chance it's going to be Walton.

I agree. If it's not him it will be Nate Yeskie or Justin Parker from South Carolina.

[CaptainObvious]

I agree. If it's not him it will be Nate Yeskie or Justin Parker from South Carolina.

So our 2nd and 3rd choices are better than our first choice? Who is making the selection: Nell Cohen?

[Todd4State]

So our 2nd and 3rd choices are better than our first choice? Who is making the selection: Nell Cohen?

I didn't list them in order of Lemonis's preference. There's a reason why Walton hasn't been announced even though we could have done so already.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I agree. If it's not him it will be Nate Yeskie or Justin Parker from South Carolina.

Funny options...

A BMW, a Mercedes Benz, or a Ford Fiesta

[Todd4State]

Funny options...

A BMW, a Mercedes Benz, or a Ford Fiesta

I think we have three pretty good options.

I've dug into Oklahoma State's situation a little bit because I thought it was odd that an alum would leave there. Turns out there are a lot of rumors about Josh Holliday micromanaging the pitching staff which is why Walton wants out. And today their recruiting coordinator just resigned out of the blue. Which I thought was interesting.

Even if Walton gets us to an ERA of 5.00 whatever that is still a 2 run improvement which is massive compared to 7.01. We would get into a regional with that and probably host.

Good chance that Walton will bring in Oklahoma State's analytics guy who used to work for Team USA.

Another thing I do like about Walton is he was a successful head coach at Oral Roberts- which I think may be a good fit with Lemonis's coaching style.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I think we have three pretty good options.

As I've stated before, if you take Waltons last 7 years or so and average it out he's averaging the 5th best ERA out of the 9 teams in his conference. A quick glance at perfect games recruiting rankings shows OK State is consistently top 4 in that conference, meaning he's underpinning his talent level in addition to ultimately putting mediocre results on the field. I know baseball recruiting is very poorly covered but it seems unlikely the ranking would be so far off as to say Walton has been over performing his talent.


I've dug into Oklahoma State's situation a little bit because I thought it was odd that an alum would leave there. Turns out there are a lot of rumors about Josh Holliday micromanaging the pitching staff which is why Walton wants out. And today their recruiting coordinator just resigned out of the blue. Which I thought was interesting.

An annoying coach would explain his motive to leave, but it doesn't explain his on field staff production. Let me explain: Holliday and Walton have been together for 10 seasons. 7 seasons ago was Waltons best year, and he won the national assistant of the year. Since then, Waltons numbers have been worse than the 5/9 average finish. Am I supposed to believe that Walton did great and Holiday decided to meddle with the national assistant of the year (2016), and then Walton put up with it for 7 seasons? That makes no sense from either coaches perspective... why would you meddle with a PC that just had a fantastic year? And why would an assistant put up with a HC meddling in their staff for 7 years before deciding to leave?

Alternatively, I can believe that after Waltons mediocre staffs for 4-5 seasons (post 2016) Holliday began to meddle and that's making Walton want to leave, but that doesn't excuse the post 2016 sub par performances causing the meddling.

At the end of the day, they guy has been a pitching coach for a long time at a P5 school that recruits OK and he's consistently produced mediocre to sub average results.


Even if Walton gets us to an ERA of 5.00 whatever that is still a 2 run improvement which is massive compared to 7.01. We would get into a regional with that and probably host

8 SEC teams hosted this season. It's not that high of a bar for our conference. DO we want to be Bama and Auburn in baseball, or do we want to be Florida, Vanderbilt, and LSU and COMPETE at the top? What's our goal as a program? To make regionals or to win in Omaha?


Another thing I do like about Walton is he was a successful head coach at Oral Roberts- which I think may be a good fit with Lemonis's coaching style.

Lemonis has been our HC for 5 seasons and the HC at Indiana for 4, and here you are talking about assistants with "head coaching experience" to help him out like he's Arnett and may need a guiding voice year 1 as he learns the HC ropes. And I don't disagree with your assessment; Lemonis DOES need a guiding voice because he's got no idea what he's doing. That's why he should have been fired.

NOW regarding Walton, I understand he's the guy we're hiring. My question is what is the contract details going to look like... can we fire him after 1 season if Lemo fails to turn it around so the new HC can bring in his own PC?

[Cooterpoot]

Would Walton be my choice? No. But with a coach on the hot seat, we made the decision not to fire him and overpay an assistant. We screwed up keeping Lemonis. That's the bottom line. But AD and money guys did this. Let them pay for the buyouts. We basically will have the same staff even if we fire Lemonis next year. Good luck finding a good coach. Just weak leadership.

[Todd4State]

As I've stated before, if you take Waltons last 7 years or so and average it out he's averaging the 5th best ERA out of the 9 teams in his conference. A quick glance at perfect games recruiting rankings shows OK State is consistently top 4 in that conference, meaning he's underpinning his talent level in addition to ultimately putting mediocre results on the field. I know baseball recruiting is very poorly covered but it seems unlikely the ranking would be so far off as to say Walton has been over performing his talent.



An annoying coach would explain his motive to leave, but it doesn't explain his on field staff production. Let me explain: Holliday and Walton have been together for 10 seasons. 7 seasons ago was Waltons best year, and he won the national assistant of the year. Since then, Waltons numbers have been worse than the 5/9 average finish. Am I supposed to believe that Walton did great and Holiday decided to meddle with the national assistant of the year (2016), and then Walton put up with it for 7 seasons? That makes no sense from either coaches perspective... why would you meddle with a PC that just had a fantastic year? And why would an assistant put up with a HC meddling in their staff for 7 years before deciding to leave?

Alternatively, I can believe that after Waltons mediocre staffs for 4-5 seasons (post 2016) Holliday began to meddle and that's making Walton want to leave, but that doesn't excuse the post 2016 sub par performances causing the meddling.

At the end of the day, they guy has been a pitching coach for a long time at a P5 school that recruits OK and he's consistently produced mediocre to sub average results.



8 SEC teams hosted this season. It's not that high of a bar for our conference. DO we want to be Bama and Auburn in baseball, or do we want to be Florida, Vanderbilt, and LSU and COMPETE at the top? What's our goal as a program? To make regionals or to win in Omaha?



Lemonis has been our HC for 5 seasons and the HC at Indiana for 4, and here you are talking about assistants with "head coaching experience" to help him out like he's Arnett and may need a guiding voice year 1 as he learns the HC ropes. And I don't disagree with your assessment; Lemonis DOES need a guiding voice because he's got no idea what he's doing. That's why he should have been fired.

NOW regarding Walton, I understand he's the guy we're hiring. My question is what is the contract details going to look like... can we fire him after 1 season if Lemo fails to turn it around so the new HC can bring in his own PC?

Who knows how long Holliday has been meddling? Also their ballpark is very hitter friendly. We don't have to dominate stats to reach our standard. In 2021 we finished sixth in the SEC in pitching. Nate Yeskie who people seem to agree is better than Walton had a worse staff ERA this year. And Wes Johnson's LSU staff was only half a run better with the best pitcher in the game throwing for them.

And no hosting isn't the "bar" for us but hosting gives us a better chance of getting there. And it also means we won around 17-18 SEC games and 40+ regular season games. And that's just minimums we're talking about here. Keep in mind we haven't lost a regional game in awhile in Starkville- since 2013 I believe. MSU has a huge postseason homefield advantage. To me, what happened at Oklahoma State is pretty irrelevant because you're picking out two years and at MSU we're going to be dealing with different pitchers and a different team.

I'm not saying that Lemonis needs a "guiding voice". Not sure how you got that out of that. My point was Lemonis is pretty hands off with the other coaches. Someone that is essentially the head coach of the pitching staff could be a good fit for us. It's more like Leach and Arnett. If Lemonis had no idea what he was doing he wouldn't have a National Title or taken us to Omaha twice and taken Indiana to a regional. He is heavily reliant on his assistants and if one of them fails him then you're going to get MSU 2022-2023. If they are good then you get MSU baseball 2019-2021.

I'm not sure why you're worried about firing anyone. We could fire anyone at any time. We could have fired Lemonis if we wanted to last year. The money was there- so that wasn't the issue. The issue was whether or not it was the best thing for MSU to do- and no it wasn't the best thing to do for MSU. There were other concerns as well about keeping recruiting classes intact and also what the coaching market would look like as well as the optics of firing a coach two years removed from a National Championship. And then with that the risk of not getting a good coach and the cost of having to make another change in a few years while we're wondering in the dark so to speak. So as far as the pitching coach goes even if it is a three year contract it's still going to have a buyout- it's just going to be a bit higher than normal so that we can maximize our chances of getting someone good. In other words yes, there is maybe a little more risk here but we're going to pay you more money. So either way MSU still comes out ahead. And no- it doesn't mean whoever our next coach is will be stuck with the pitching coach. MSU isn't going to hamstring themselves or a potential hire like that. We're not run by Larry Templeton anymore.

[Todd4State]

Would Walton be my choice? No. But with a coach on the hot seat, we made the decision not to fire him and overpay an assistant. We screwed up keeping Lemonis. That's the bottom line. But AD and money guys did this. Let them pay for the buyouts. We basically will have the same staff even if we fire Lemonis next year. Good luck finding a good coach. Just weak leadership.

We're not going to fire Lemonis and force the next coach to keep the assistants.

Even Larry Templeton didn't expect that to happen with new coaches.

[Cooterpoot]

We're not going to fire Lemonis and force the next coach to keep the assistants.

Even Larry Templeton didn't expect that to happen with new coaches.

We've given assurances to Walton. He's not coming here to look for a job next year. But let me guess, we just need to make post season to keep Lemonis. We don't have the pitching or the lineup right now to do more than just make post season. Sad our fans are ok with that. I'm amazed so many people are getting Lemonis back. Longest losing streak in history. Two consecutive missed SEC tournaments with no post season. Last place. People still slobbing him. We've already lost recruits and are about to lose more.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And no- it doesn't mean whoever our next coach is will be stuck with the pitching coach. MSU isn't going to hamstring themselves or a potential hire like that. We're not run by Larry Templeton anymore.

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?96980-I-m-thinking-Georgia


You might be surprised. A lot of rumors that we have added contract details to offset any worries- multiple years guaranteed along with a top five salary is what we are rumored to be offering.

So to be clear, you're saying the situation has changed on that "multiple years guaranteed" part?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We've given assurances to Walton. He's not coming here to look for a job next year. But let me guess, we just need to make post season to keep Lemonis. We don't have the pitching or the lineup right now to do more than just make post season. Sad our fans are ok with that. I'm amazed so many people are getting Lemonis back. Longest losing streak in history. Two consecutive missed SEC tournaments with no post season. Last place. People still slobbing him. We've already lost recruits and are about to lose more.

Money men would rather save a buck today and let the program slide into more of a hole. On the one hand I can't blame people for not spending money on a college sport team, but on the other it's destroying the only sport we are nationally competitive in. And with a lot of SEC teams pouring money into the sport + our NIL situation it's not a given we'll crawl out of this hole post Lemo

[Todd4State]

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?96980-I-m-thinking-Georgia



So to be clear, you're saying the situation has changed on that "multiple years guaranteed" part?

No I'm not saying that has changed. I'm saying that we could still fire them and buy them out.

[Todd4State]

We've given assurances to Walton. He's not coming here to look for a job next year. But let me guess, we just need to make post season to keep Lemonis. We don't have the pitching or the lineup right now to do more than just make post season. Sad our fans are ok with that. I'm amazed so many people are getting Lemonis back. Longest losing streak in history. Two consecutive missed SEC tournaments with no post season. Last place. People still slobbing him. We've already lost recruits and are about to lose more.

I really think he can turn it around. If I'm wrong then we fire him. This isn't the lowest I've seen our program- that was 2008-2010. We recovered from that- and actually went beyond what this program had ever done before. It's not about "excusing" anything at least for me. It's about do I think he can fix it with certain changes. What's done is done. Now it's up to Lemonis to fix it. Either he will or he won't. The 2023 team is over and in the books. We'll have a new team and we'll see what they do. The offseason is just starting. We have to get a pitching coach. Then we'll see what we can get in the portal and see who we get through the draft. Our guys are starting summer baseball and Evan Siary, Logan Forsythe, and Conner Hujsack have started out well.

The biggest thing is they just have to get back to fundamentals. It's really as simple as just making plays and throwing strikes. I think we got too hung up on velocity and spin rate and other things and forgot that those things are only useful if you can throw the ball over the plate the vast majority of the time.

I don't know if "just making a regional" is good enough or not. Need some context with that. Are we a one seed that lost to a hot team? Are we a three seed that barely got in? If that is the case we could fire him.

[Todd4State]

Money men would rather save a buck today and let the program slide into more of a hole. On the one hand I can't blame people for not spending money on a college sport team, but on the other it's destroying the only sport we are nationally competitive in. And with a lot of SEC teams pouring money into the sport + our NIL situation it's not a given we'll crawl out of this hole post Lemo

So what coach could we have hired this offseason to replace Lemonis? Georgia is having to poach Wes Johnson after they whiffed on Justin Haire, Mizzou got the guy from Memphis, and Alabama might get the guy at Maryland. If their coach hasn't done enough to get the job himself.

Our NIL situation is pretty good when it comes to baseball.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

So what coach could we have hired this offseason to replace Lemonis? Georgia is having to poach Wes Johnson after they whiffed on Justin Haire, Mizzou got the guy from Memphis, and Alabama might get the guy at Maryland. If their coach hasn't done enough to get the job himself.

Our NIL situation is pretty good when it comes to baseball.

We are a better job than those 3. We could have gotten Haire for example. I'm also not sure who we'd get next year that we couldn't this year, seems like that excuse to keep Lemonis will always exist

But I'm not sure Butch Thompson wouldn't come. That'd be my top target. What he's done at a non baseball school is impressive. But maybe he wouldn't come here. Partly depends on if he's happy to have Cohen as his boss again

[Cooterpoot]

So what coach could we have hired this offseason to replace Lemonis? Georgia is having to poach Wes Johnson after they whiffed on Justin Haire, Mizzou got the guy from Memphis, and Alabama might get the guy at Maryland. If their coach hasn't done enough to get the job himself.

Our NIL situation is pretty good when it comes to baseball.

Like I said, amazing how our fans have accepted mediocrity in this program. The idea a team with our support, facilities, & NIL can't hire a great coach is 17ing laughable. Some people have been brainwashed. With P5 seeing more consolidation than ever, our job is a big ass job.

[ArrowDawg]

"Solid"...hat's probably the most generous way to say it and still be fair. I'd say "average", and "mediocre" are also fair.

He's going to be a MASSIVE improvement over Fox. Absolutely. We'll probably be good enough to make a regional. But Walton won't built an above average staff, even if he's got years and years to do so.

Todd said we were going to offer a multi year fully guaranteed contract so the PC coach wouldn't worry about being fired after 1 year. But that was a week or to ago and the situation is always fluid. I've also heard we're talking "2nd highest paid PC" money which is a massive overpay if we get Walton. What are you hearing on the contract front?

Personally, I think it's insanity of the highest order. It would have been better to clean house than to financially hamstring ourselves to a second-tier (or lower) PC who under no circumstance is guaranteed to help us turn things around to the level we expect and demand of MSU baseball.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Personally, I think it's insanity of the highest order. It would have been better to clean house than to financially hamstring ourselves to a second-tier (or lower) PC who under no circumstance is guaranteed to help us turn things around to the level we expect and demand of MSU baseball.

Agreed. It's like paying to replace the transmission of an old high mileage car with a blown head gasket. It's probably smarter to just scrap the car

[TheLostDawg]

Please stop using the excuse of keeping the recruiting class together. You bring in a top coach, he keeps it in place. However now we have two and possibly three years to make up now.

[TheLostDawg]

Really concerns me with Selmon. Can he make the smart/ tough decisions? I hope so. This won't make me lose faith just yet but things should start falling into place fairly soon if he's as good as yall say.

[BigDawg81]

Steve put up a new update about 2 hours.

[sandjunky]

Steve put up a new update about 2 hours.

What about 2hrs

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/rFVt4xmL/IMG-4664.jpg

Back to this again. Lemonising along, nothing to see here.

[KOdawg1]

Either we want someone who's still playing, or Lemonis is screwing this up like he has the entire program for the last 2 years.

[The Federalist Engineer]

When they present a dude from Eastern Illinois Tech College that Dan MacDonnell "recommended" ... then Buckets should be immediately dismissed, just let Goat coach for 2 years and hire Cannizarro to coach hitters.

[Really Clark?]

When they present a dude from Eastern Illinois Tech College that Dan MacDonnell "recommended" ... then Buckets should be immediately dismissed, just let Goat coach for 2 years and hire Cannizarro to coach hitters.

Cannizzaro can't keep a HS job, his name needs to be eliminated from being typed in consideration for any position at State Baseball

[StarkVegasSteve]

Cannizzaro can't keep a HS job, his name needs to be eliminated from being typed in consideration for any position at State Baseball

I would take that horny SOB back tomorrow. Yes I know it will never happen, but he would have us rolling in a month. And hey, Lee Begley is not here anymore so we have eliminated that distraction.

In all honesty we all know how this is going to end, Bunn will be hired and Lemonis will be fired next May.

[AlSwearengen]

We've given assurances to Walton. He's not coming here to look for a job next year. But let me guess, we just need to make post season to keep Lemonis. We don't have the pitching or the lineup right now to do more than just make post season. Sad our fans are ok with that. I'm amazed so many people are getting Lemonis back. Longest losing streak in history. Two consecutive missed SEC tournaments with no post season. Last place. People still slobbing him. We've already lost recruits and are about to lose more.

What recruits have we lost?

[Really Clark?]

We just have to wait a little bit for the landscape to clear. Walton is definitely in the mix, have to see how other jobs shake out. Hopefully we can get a formal interview with SC pitching coach soon and see if we can pry him away.

[Cooterpoot]

https://i.postimg.cc/bvbfbyL7/IMG-4678.jpg

[sandjunky]

https://i.postimg.cc/bvbfbyL7/IMG-4678.jpg
Lol
Just missing the bucket

[Todd4State]

We are a better job than those 3. We could have gotten Haire for example. I'm also not sure who we'd get next year that we couldn't this year, seems like that excuse to keep Lemonis will always exist

But I'm not sure Butch Thompson wouldn't come. That'd be my top target. What he's done at a non baseball school is impressive. But maybe he wouldn't come here. Partly depends on if he's happy to have Cohen as his boss again

We may have gotten Haire. He just turned down a job that is similar in resources to Florida and a place he could have won a title at if he kept the local talent. A lot less likely going to come here if we show that we'll fire you without giving a coach a chance to make changes. Not to mention we now have more money to work with now for next year. Butch? OK. You can't complain about Walton in the regionals this year and then be OK with Butch.


Like I said, amazing how our fans have accepted mediocrity in this program. The idea a team with our support, facilities, & NIL can't hire a great coach is 17ing laughable. Some people have been brainwashed. With P5 seeing more consolidation than ever, our job is a big ass job.

And who said we can't hire a great coach? Being able to hire a great coach doesn't give us a hall pass to mismanage our program.

[Todd4State]

Please stop using the excuse of keeping the recruiting class together. You bring in a top coach, he keeps it in place. However now we have two and possibly three years to make up now.

So quit discussing facts? OK.

[Todd4State]

We just have to wait a little bit for the landscape to clear. Walton is definitely in the mix, have to see how other jobs shake out. Hopefully we can get a formal interview with SC pitching coach soon and see if we can pry him away.

Exactly. And Jackson at Alabama probably didn't help himself today as far as getting the head coaching job there.

[Really Clark?]

Exactly. And Jackson at Alabama probably didn't help himself today as far as getting the head coaching job there.

True. And have to see if Yeski is staying, LSU bound or serious about us. What happens with Memphis HC job could have an impact within our candidate pool as well.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Walton has a mediocre resume and they shat the bed in the postseason. Butch has made Omaha several times, got his teak a host spot this year, and they shat the bed this postseason.

One is mediocre full stop. The other has achieved excellent results and faltered this one postseason. They are not the same.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And who said we can't hire a great coach? Being able to hire a great coach doesn't give us a hall pass to mismanage our program.

LOL Todd YOU are the one saying we can't hire a great coach! You've been saying over and over and over again if we fired Lemo we couldn't get anyone, but if we let him F up the program another year we will and that's why we should keep him.

You know youve been saying this, and you just keep contradicting yourself and backtracking.

And how dare you say we "haven't given Lemonis a chance to make changes"? He's in his 5TH YEAR, this is his team and his coaches. And he's missed Hoover twice now; this season WAS his chance to make changes and he failed to do so. No HC goes "I will not coach at a place that expects me to field a solid team in year 4 and 5, I need more time!" Every HC believes in themselves to have us rolling by then. They want assurances of 3-4 years to get going, not 6.

[Todd4State]

LOL Todd YOU are the one saying we can't hire a great coach! You've been saying over and over and over again if we fired Lemo we couldn't get anyone, but if we let him F up the program another year we will and that's why we should keep him.

You know youve been saying this, and you just keep contradicting yourself and backtracking.

And how dare you say we "haven't given Lemonis a chance to make changes"? He's in his 5TH YEAR, this is his team and his coaches. And he's missed Hoover twice now; this season WAS his chance to make changes and he failed to do so. No HC goes "I will not coach at a place that expects me to field a solid team in year 4 and 5, I need more time!" Every HC believes in themselves to have us rolling by then. They want assurances of 3-4 years to get going, not 6.

I'm saying we may not be able to get the best possible coach we can. Isn't that what you want? Or are you just blindly hell bent on firing Lemonis? Yes we could have still gotten a good coach. But it would have been a bit riskier and the pool would have been smaller.

How dare I say that? LOL. Foxhall was fine in years 1-2. He wasn't fine in years 3-4. This isn't Croom. Lemonis gave Foxhall another chance because of his track record and it burned him. Now he has made the change. We'll see who the new pitching coach is. Firing a coach who likely just needs a new pitching coach is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Pancho]

Lemo is just as sketchy evaluating a position guy as Fox is doing the same for a pitcher. The only way he succeeds is if the place simply starts to recruit itself.

[BigDawg81]

Hearing that Walton could stay at OK State and is a candidate for the Memphis.

[KOdawg1]

Hearing that Walton could stay at OK State and is a candidate for the Memphis.

By hearing, you mean you read Steve's update on Gene's Page?

If so, I've "heard" that too.

[BigDawg81]

By hearing, you mean you read Steve's update on Gene's Page?

If so, I've "heard" that too.
Somebody else told me that but either way it doesn?t look good. I was on board with cutting ties with Lemonis.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Looks like the current sphere of candidate rumors includes:

- Rob Walmart from Ok State, brutal pitching performance in the regional. 10 years in a mediocre program in OKSU, but maybe I just can't see past the meh numbers?
- Rob Childress from Nebraska, he was the HC at Texas A&M before Schossnagle. He always seemed to have some talented aces at TAM.
- Justin Parker from South Carolina, upper third of the SEC performance for his staff. He is actually new to the SEC, he came from Indiana 3 years ago.
- Nate Yeskie of Texas A&M? For real?


Some other rumors in this string about a Oral Roberts coach. I think the Bama coach gets the Bama job, so that's that.

Just a question, Scott Berry was a PC before being the HC at USM. These USM coaches seem to be excellent scouters of talent. Yeah, he is retiring from a job that paid $100K less than Scott Foxhall. If Frank Anderson is the perfect collegiate PC, seems that being a HC in the past is a plus credential.

[basedog]

Just a tough selling job getting a PC, I want be surprised if any rumored will take the job now. We got a mess ahead I think.

[civildawg]

Yeah seems like Lemonis? hot seat is scaring off candidates. I could be wrong but next year just screams lame duck coach getting fired mid season.

[Todd4State]

Looks like the current sphere of candidate rumors includes:

- Rob Walmart from Ok State, brutal pitching performance in the regional. 10 years in a mediocre program in OKSU, but maybe I just can't see past the meh numbers?
- Rob Childress from Nebraska, he was the HC at Texas A&M before Schossnagle. He always seemed to have some talented aces at TAM.
- Justin Parker from South Carolina, upper third of the SEC performance for his staff. He is actually new to the SEC, he came from Indiana 3 years ago.
- Nate Yeskie of Texas A&M? For real?


Some other rumors in this string about a Oral Roberts coach. I think the Bama coach gets the Bama job, so that's that.

Just a question, Scott Berry was a PC before being the HC at USM. These USM coaches seem to be excellent scouters of talent. Yeah, he is retiring from a job that paid $100K less than Scott Foxhall. If Frank Anderson is the perfect collegiate PC, seems that being a HC in the past is a plus credential.

Childress took the Nebraska job.

We'll know more about Parker this week but most people don't think he'll take it.

I would say Walton is the most likely choice.

I'm not sure that Byrne will hire Jackson. I don't think he will knowing him. They're rumored to be interested in Maryland's coach.

[Pancho]

sounds as if Lemo is gonna go ahead and Lemo us to death

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Todd I'd love for you to give me 1 name of a HC we could get by giving Lemo a 6th year (and firing him after 3 straight bad ones) that we couldn't get by giving him a 5th year (and firing him after 2 straight bad seasons)

It is pure speculation on your part to say our "pool will be bigger".

And for the millionth time, quit with statements like "a coach who likely just needs a new pitching coach". We are DEAD LAST in defense. We have been 10th in scoring these past 2 seasons. Theres obviously no leadership on the team. It is NOT JUST A PITCHING PROBLEM, but no matter how many times this gets brought up you keep cycling back to acting like pitching is all we need to fix.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yeah seems like Lemonis? hot seat is scaring off candidates. I could be wrong but next year just screams lame duck coach getting fired mid season.

We are going to end up getting a PC just as desperate as we are

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I think it's clear the boosters and AD have thrown in the towel for next year to reduce the buyout. I can live with 1 a singular bad baseball season, but keeping Lemo also puts our program into a deeper hole and hurts recruiting which will be felt by the next guy.

Anybody know how much Lemo and staffs buyout decreases next year?

[EdwardDrayton]

We saw this coming. Going to be awhile to get it right again it seems. Such a shame that we are in this position. Especially because we inflicted this upon ourselves by choosing to procrastinate some decisions and run completely from others.

[TrapGame]

Lemonis is radioactive. Nobody with sense wants to walk into this. Lemonhead should have been fired after year two of total meltdown after a Natty.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lemonis is radioactive. Nobody with sense wants to walk into this. Lemonhead should have been fired after year two of total meltdown after a Natty.

What outcome will prove this hypothesis? Just asking

(1) he is currently keeping his players except the problems. It's not a Wichita situation
(2) the recruiting class has not collapsed, that I am aware of

So the big tests remaining are:

(1) the portal work
(2) the PC hire

[Coursesuper]

What outcome will prove this hypothesis? Just asking

(1) he is currently keeping his players except the problems. It's not a Wichita situation
(2) the recruiting class has not collapsed, that I am aware of

So the big tests remaining are:

(1) the portal work
(2) the PC hire

Walton was on campus with Lemo last Thursday, riding around campus in a golf cart.

[sandjunky]

Lemonis is radioactive. Nobody with sense wants to walk into this. Lemonhead should have been fired after year two of total meltdown after a Natty.

Him firing fox made him radioactive in coaching circles I?m sure

That screams desperation

It got him a year and delays repair for another year

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Walton was on campus with Lemo last Thursday, riding around campus in a golf cart.

Need Bert Stair to go to Oklahoma and see if his house is for sale

[Cooterpoot]

I think it's best to give it a couple days. Things will be clearer later this week.
HaHa

[confucius say]

Let's see what Bama does. If they don't hire the interim, snatch him up.

[sandjunky]

Let's see what Bama does. If they don't hire the interim, snatch him up.

Hell yeah
Let?s sign up a guy who?s staff gave up 9 hr in a single game - he?ll fit right in

[Saltydog]

Yeah well, that staff was pretty doggone decent for the biggest part of the year. Nonetheless, hiring the best PC in the country isn't going to cure our ills. Should've axed Lemo and been done with it.

[confucius say]

Hell yeah
Let?s sign up a guy who?s staff gave up 9 hr in a single game - he?ll fit right in

Bama led the league in era in sec games only. 3rd in all games. He is known as a very good recruiter despite his having been recruiting to the worst job in the west. He knows the league and has recruiting contacts throughout our recruiting footprint.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Hell yeah
Let?s sign up a guy who?s staff gave up 9 hr in a single game - he?ll fit right in

Find me a coach in any sport that hasn't laid an egg. Saban lost to ULM and his defense gets lit up vs elite offenses like everyone else. Corbin lost his home regional. That Virginia basketball coach lost to a #16 seed. I'd crawl over broken glass to have any of them as our HC in their sport

[civildawg]

Sounds like Bama is keeping their PC as well