We Are In A Bad Situation

[StarkVegasSteve]

There is no easy way out of the situation we currently find ourselves in. If we keep him, which I have been against for 12 months, then I do not really see things getting better and he will be gone May 2024 and we will have to completely rebuild the roster from the ground up. It is probably a 2 year rebuild. If we fire him, which is not likely at all, we will have massive transfers and will have to rebuild the roster from the ground up. Also probably a two year rebuild. So basically the question is do you want to bet on Lemonis being able to turn it around next year or do you want to get out ahead of this Titanic before it hits about 8 more icebergs and the ship breaks apart even more.

[starkvegasdawg]

My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.

[StarkVegasSteve]

My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.

That would be a question for them. I mean the players loved Moorhead up until almost the last day and we could tell he was a bad coach after Game 4 of his first year.

[ZedFedder]

In his post game presser, he continually mentioned that we have on area that needs major work (pitching obviously). He seemed to imply that in fixing that, everything else returns to normal. I somewhat agree. Our pitching was so atrocious that in half of our SEC games we had absolutely no shot at winning. The defense was bad, yes, but it did get better as the year went on. If you get a Muscara or someone like him as the Pitching Coach, you are back to normal next year. I truly think it?s that simple. We need some help from the portal, too, obviously. I say give him one more ride with a new PC and that?s the last straw.

And what I mean by that is top 25, borderline hosting. I don?t mean to just make the tournament. Get us back to hosting or right there close to it, or get out.

[CaptainObvious]

My question is if he's just a bad coach, and will never take us back to where we're accustomed to being then why does he have the loyalty of the players? I would think they would want to win and have a coach that gives us the best chance to do so.

Once they get use to not having to work hard, it becomes a habit and more comfortable. Also having a coach that will coddle you and continue to give you multiple chances is also comfortable.

And third, familiarity. The coach that recruits them and they get used to that person as their leader is where their loyalty will lie until the new guy meets with them and assures them they will get a fair chance.

What Prime did at Colorado May eventually work out but to just flat out tell some that they need to find another home before you even get to evaluate them through a fair process has probably crossed the minds of several athletes recruited by one coach and have to go through a couple of coaching changes.

Wil Hoyle thought he was moving to a better situation when he left Duke for MSU. Duke will be a top 16 host week after next.

[MetEdDawg]

We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.

Alford will not be be back and I would not be blown away if Chance transferred as well. He was our best hitter and we never gave him a consistent look after he got back from injury.

[WinningIsRelentless]

We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.

Alford needs to be on a train today out of town. Kid is a cancer in the clubhouse and struggles all over.

[msstate7]

We were one win away from Hoover with statistically the worst pitching staff in our school's history and the worst in the conference this year.

If we have even the 12th worst staff in the conference this year, we are likely a 2 seed. But it took the worst statistical performance ever for this to happen.

Our offense was fine. Defense got better as the year went on and Lemonis proved he was willing to sit a senior who was important to us winning a championship for a freshman in the middle of conference play. That can't be overlooked.

Pitching coach has been fired and if we can keep them, we have a talented core coming back. You can build around Alford, Hines, Mershon, Highfill, and Chance. Need a little more pop from the portal and we need to do whatever it takes to find the right pitching coach and kids who can throw the baseball for strikes.

I'm good with Lemonis getting another year.

Pretty sweet for lemonis to not have to take any credit with our fanbase for the pitching.

I think a huge part of pitching talent is being able to repeat a delivery to throw strikes. I don't think this is easily taught.

[Quaoarsking]

Do we know for sure that "we will have massive transfers" if we fire him, or is that speculation? And wouldn't we have those in a year after we're bad again?

[MetEdDawg]

Pretty sweet for lemonis to not have to take any credit with our fanbase for the pitching.

I think a huge part of pitching talent is being able to repeat a delivery to throw strikes. I don't think this is easily taught.

I like how we literally just replaced a head football coach that was held completely separately from what the defense did yet in baseball we can't say that something similar happened? Leach got no credit or demeaning when the defense was either good or bad. Lemonis is an offensive guy and along with Gautreau they've done a good job in that area of the team. He hired Foxhall to run our pitching staff. And it sucked. So he got fired.

Lemonis can take shots for the defense but I don't hold him as responsible for the pitching. Foxhall did a poor job with the last two staffs.

[msstate7]

I like how we literally just replaced a head football coach that was held completely separately from what the defense did yet in baseball we can't say that something similar happened? Leach got no credit or demeaning when the defense was either good or bad. Lemonis is an offensive guy and along with Gautreau they've done a good job in that area of the team. He hired Foxhall to run our pitching staff. And it sucked. So he got fired.

Lemonis can take shots for the defense but I don't hold him as responsible for the pitching. Foxhall did a poor job with the last two staffs.

Whoever recruited/signed a staff full of guys that can't throw strikes is responsible. If that's foxhall, then it's him. I don't think you can just teach guys to consistently throw strikes. You can, or you can't... we can't

[Todd4State]

I bet on Lemonis turning it around. We're getting a new pitching coach. Everyone agrees that is a big need.

On defense we made 65 errors as a team. 28 of those were made by two players. Both are likely gone this offseason.

Very correctable situation IMO.

[Coach34]

Alford will not be be back and I would not be blown away if Chance transferred as well. He was our best hitter and we never gave him a consistent look after he got back from injury.

Chance is not an SEC hitter. He should have never been playing ahead of Jordan

[Todd4State]

Whoever recruited/signed a staff full of guys that can't throw strikes is responsible. If that's foxhall, then it's him. I don't think you can just teach guys to consistently throw strikes. You can, or you can't... we can't

Some can definitely be taught. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson had major command issues early in their careers. Once they became more consistent then they became hall of famers.

Foxhall wasn't doing enough teaching. Ultimately I think he failed because he focused too much on velocity and spin rate and not enough on fundamentals and developing things like mechanics and teaching guys how to pitch.

One thing that I think hurt us is we didn't have very many guys pitching summer league baseball. Instead they spent time with trainers increasing velocity in a lot of cases. What our guys really needed was to pitch and be in situations so they can learn how to handle themselves and then add velocity later.

[Coach34]

Do we know for sure that "we will have massive transfers" if we fire him, or is that speculation? And wouldn't we have those in a year after we're bad again?

GoTro is loved and trusted by the players. Firing him would def cause guys to leave. Him leaving to take a head job? Players would understand

[Really Clark?]

Some can definitely be taught. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson had major command issues early in their careers. Once they became more consistent then they became hall of famers.

Foxhall wasn't doing enough teaching. Ultimately I think he failed because he focused too much on velocity and spin rate and not enough on fundamentals and developing things like mechanics and teaching guys how to pitch.

One thing that I think hurt us is we didn't have very many guys pitching summer league baseball. Instead they spent time with trainers increasing velocity in a lot of cases. What our guys really needed was to pitch and be in situations so they can learn how to handle themselves and then add velocity later.

Johnson was cut at USC after 2 years because he couldn't throw strikes. All the talent and it was evident but it took him to about 25 to harness it and then 29 to be consistently great and then incredible from 35-40 years old. That's not what a college team can recruit many of hoping they harness it in a year or two.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Chance is not an SEC hitter. He should have never been playing ahead of Jordan

Kind of hard to tell since he only had 34 ABs in conference play. I would much rather have had him in RF than Clark

[smootness]

Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation.

Even if the problem is pitching and it?s all on Foxhall, it took Lemonis way too long to make that move.

No matter how you slice it, this is on Lemonis. He does not deserve another year. The right move to make a year from now is the right move now. Time for him to go.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation.

Even if the problem is pitching and it?s all on Foxhall, it took Lemonis way too long to make that move.

No matter how you slice it, this is on Lemonis. He does not deserve another year. The right move to make a year from now is the right move now. Time for him to go.

I agree. Even knowing it will cost us Jordan, Hines, Mershon, and probably a few more it is better to go ahead and blow it up now and start the rebuild.

[AlSwearengen]

Chance is not an SEC hitter. He should have never been playing ahead of Jordan

This. You can see it. He is a good hitter but his hand speed doesn’t keep up with SEC pitchers that are throwing mid 90’s. He still probably won’t strike out much, but I doubt he is able to punish the ball.

I hope I’m wrong about that and there have been successful hitters who have been able to get by with lesser than average bat speed. His position complicates things as well.

[Todd4State]

Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation.

Even if the problem is pitching and it?s all on Foxhall, it took Lemonis way too long to make that move.

No matter how you slice it, this is on Lemonis. He does not deserve another year. The right move to make a year from now is the right move now. Time for him to go.

Not necessarily. I know plenty of players that played for Jimmy Bragan and most of them said he was awful. I've met St Louis Cardinals players that played for Vern Rapp and Ken Boyer and they all thought they were awful. Lots of MSU players hated Cohen but he did a good job. Players aren't just blindly loyal to coaches no matter what just because they played for them.

It is on Lemonis but I can't fault the guy for not firing the National Assistant Coach of the year after one bad year where we had a ton of injuries. And Lemonis did fire the guy 3/4 of the way through which is kind of unheard of in college baseball.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I’m very conflicted on the best move to make here. Sometimes with coaches like Moorhead it’s obvious because it’s just so bad and then other times it’s more challenging to figure out the best move. I would be more inclined to keep him if he can wrap up a quality pitching coach like the WF guy, but at the same time if Wake goes to Omaha then we are waiting unless there is some sort of agreement in place long before it’s made public. Many times coaches won’t do that though. At the same time, we can’t let the program get too far in the hole that we suffer years of bad baseball and lose fan interest along with our rumored NIL problems. Selmon definitely has a big decision to make in his first few months on the job

[No BS Dawg]

I also heard we had several pitchers calling their high school coaches to get advice and coaching this year. It is fine for a college athlete to stay in touch with their high school coach and talk game, but actively seeking out advice and coaching when you have a well paid pitching coach on your college team is a huge problem. That is how lost our pitchers were this year and last.

[viverlibre]

It's about the Jimmy's and Joe's. Had we signed Skeens, we'd likely have 6 or more additional conference wins (not only his wins, but we'd have more arms for Saturday and Sunday), plus his confidence and energy would spill over. Missing on some pitching evaluations is one of the major issues. We'd likely be hosting.

[No BS Dawg]

Lemonis better do his best recruiting and selling of the program in the portal starting now. We can turn this around with a few good arms and bats. He just has pull out all the stops and bust hump to make it happen.

[smootness]

Johnson was cut at USC after 2 years because he couldn't throw strikes. All the talent and it was evident but it took him to about 25 to harness it and then 29 to be consistently great and then incredible from 35-40 years old. That's not what a college team can recruit many of hoping they harness it in a year or two.

Not true. He was cut from Team USA. He had his struggles at USC but was a 2nd round pick in 85.

[smootness]

Not necessarily. I know plenty of players that played for Jimmy Bragan and most of them said he was awful. I've met St Louis Cardinals players that played for Vern Rapp and Ken Boyer and they all thought they were awful. Lots of MSU players hated Cohen but he did a good job. Players aren't just blindly loyal to coaches no matter what just because they played for them.

It is on Lemonis but I can't fault the guy for not firing the National Assistant Coach of the year after one bad year where we had a ton of injuries. And Lemonis did fire the guy 3/4 of the way through which is kind of unheard of in college baseball.

Did I say players are blindly loyal to their coaches?

I said they?re often too involved - meaning they sometimes have an opinion of a coach and his ability that reflects their personal relationship with the coach or some other circumstance that biases them or makes them unable to fully assess the coach?s ability. Also, just because they play on the team does not make them a good judge of the coaching and it?s ability to produce good results.

I?m just saying, we should never base a coaching decision solely or even primarily on what the players think.

[calidawg]

Compare the situation to CEOs. Some CEOs are great at stepping into a stable growing organization and steering the ship.

Some CEOs are builders and can enter chaos and turn it around.

Lemo is the former, he was great at that. Excellent even.

He is not the latter..

It's a bad situation all around. He's the wrong guy for where we are now and he will be the wrong guy next year.

[State82]

I?m just saying, we should never base a coaching decision solely or even primarily on what the players think.

No, we should not. Now, if I am the AD, out of a gesture of goodwill, I would talk with players about their thoughts. They are, in fact, the student athletes over which the AD is responsible. So you need to at least show that their opinions matter. The AD can take it for what it is worth but at least the players can have the feeling that they are being considered in the process. Any goodwill/comfort level that can be achieved with the players at this point is a good thing and it would not take much effort to create some of this.

[Cooterpoot]

There wouldn't be massive transfers. That's a false narrative. At least not many that matter. We're going to lose a couple players anyway. Bottom line is our AD doesn't want to make a change. It's his call and he's made it. He'll either look great or he'll lose a lot of support.

[DawgFromOxford]

Missing on some pitching evaluations is one of the major issues.

In a cup half full way this gives me a lot of hope for Lemonis. Yes Lemonis gets final say for recruits, but if he?s as hands off as some of y?all say he is, it wouldn?t surprise me if he almost blindly trusted Foxhall when it came to pitchers. Yes that?s on Lemonis for trusting Foxhall who turned out to be? not good, but with the right pitching coach I think the staff could turn things around. Can Lemonis identify the right pitching coach? Remains to be seen.

[maroonmania]

Did I say players are blindly loyal to their coaches?

I said they?re often too involved - meaning they sometimes have an opinion of a coach and his ability that reflects their personal relationship with the coach or some other circumstance that biases them or makes them unable to fully assess the coach?s ability. Also, just because they play on the team does not make them a good judge of the coaching and it?s ability to produce good results.

I?m just saying, we should never base a coaching decision solely or even primarily on what the players think.

Also most players don't have a good frame of reference. They usually have only had one college HC with just his way of doing things so how are they to know a different way that would make them better? And like Moorhead, Lemonis seems to be a good guy that most players like so I'm sure they have his back regardless of whether he is actually the coach they need or not.

[viverlibre]

I also heard we had several pitchers calling their high school coaches to get advice and coaching this year. It is fine for a college athlete to stay in touch with their high school coach and talk game, but actively seeking out advice and coaching when you have a well paid pitching coach on your college team is a huge problem. That is how lost our pitchers were this year and last.

Several years ago, prior to the start of a regional, I talked to a MLB scout at length. He said pitchers really did learn to pitch until they got to the minors, very college programs were good at coaching pitchers. Most good college pitchers were that based on talent, not coaching.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If you bring him back it?s time to stop acting like we care and pass that money next door to the football building

[EdwardDrayton]

If you bring him back it?s time to stop acting like we care and pass that money next door to the football building

Just don't get the "bring him back" folks. Why? Because he can fix it?!!? Didn't we give him this year to fix it after finishing last the previous season. Is 'next to last' fixing it?!!? Where's the logic?!!?

[Todd4State]

Did I say players are blindly loyal to their coaches?

I said they?re often too involved - meaning they sometimes have an opinion of a coach and his ability that reflects their personal relationship with the coach or some other circumstance that biases them or makes them unable to fully assess the coach?s ability. Also, just because they play on the team does not make them a good judge of the coaching and it?s ability to produce good results.

I?m just saying, we should never base a coaching decision solely or even primarily on what the players think.

Not sure how else you want me to take this quote- "Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation."

At any rate- you're still wrong. Players have the best insight IMO because they are around it the most and they have by far the most to gain or lose by the coach being good or bad. They also know and understand both the game and industry- something many of our fans clearly don't. If it were up to our fans they would be royally ****ing up our baseball program right now and most of them are too ignorant to understand it. Many of them are very close to our program- a lot closer than most of us ever are- and they have more insight into the inner workings of everything more than the casual fan. We have too many fans that throw childish temper tantrums because we lose a game and over half the time they're blaming the wrong thing.

Let me say this- when I'm around MLB players I listen when it comes to baseball.

At the end of the day this is a business and that business is winning games. If Lemonis doesn't do it enough he will be gone. Everyone in baseball from MLB down understands and gets that including Lemonis. It's really not that personal.

[Todd4State]

Also most players don't have a good frame of reference. They usually have only had one college HC with just his way of doing things so how are they to know a different way that would make them better? And like Moorhead, Lemonis seems to be a good guy that most players like so I'm sure they have his back regardless of whether he is actually the coach they need or not.

Are you really saying that most baseball players only have one coach their whole career? We have many former players that have been in MLB and have played for some of the best of the best in MLB. I'm pretty sure they know what to look for in a coach.

[maroonmania]

Are you really saying that most baseball players only have one coach their whole career? We have many former players that have been in MLB and have played for some of the best of the best in MLB. I'm pretty sure they know what to look for in a coach.

Obviously I'm talking about players currently on our team.and their opinion of Lemonis. I thought that was the crux of the discussion. Those are the ones too close to the situation to be objective and like I said, most have only had Lemonis as their COLLEGE head coach.

[Pancho]

Exactly. Lemo either can't evaluate what actual SEC talent is for the most part or he simply has no idea what to do to improve a player. An excellent mess for folks who say that it'll be bad if Lemo is cut loose only in the next breath to say he'll be let go next year.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

If it were up to our fans they would be royally ****ing up our baseball program right now

We have finished 14th and 13th the last 2 seasons. The "program" is already F'ed up.

The question is, who is most likely to fix it? A) The head coach who ruined it + a new pitching coach, or B) a new HC + a new pitching coach?


At the end of the day this is a business and that business is winning games. If Lemonis doesn't do it enough he will be gone.

He's already missed Hoover twice. That's enough loosing for me. 2 awful seasons gets most coach fired in most sports at most schools. Why should we have lower standards?

[msstate7]

We have too many fans that throw childish temper tantrums because we lose a game

At the end of the day this is a business and that business is winning games..

Last 2 years...
53-56 overall
18-42 (.300) in sec

So, maybe it's more than losing "a game"

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Last 2 years...
53-56 overall
18-42 (.300) in sec

So, maybe it's more than losing "a game"

I've lost a lot of respect for Todd. It's not that I disagree with his opinion, it's that he's blatantly lying about what's wrong with our team to pretend like Fox was the only issue. I point out we had other problems, and he lies more acting like Forsythe was the only defensive issue or that there's no way Lemonis could have known Hancock doesn't have the arm for catcher. It's ridiculous.

There's lots of reasons to keep Lemonis. We don't have the buyout. Selmon won't make a hire this early in his tenure. We've reached out to coaches and wouldn't be able to get anyone decent this cycle. We truly think Fox was 80% of our issues and Lemonis may fix the other 20% this off-season.

But lying about what our team's problems are? Calling us short sighted when hes wanting to keep a loosing coach to avoid a transfer or 2 from leaving this off-season? Usi g circus logic to aboud amiti g a point he made was wrong? I can't respect that

At this point there's nothing left to say. He's decided Lemonis can turn it around and thats it. I'm done talking to him about it till next season

[BuckyIsAB****]

The first loss next year there will be tons wanting him gone and the rest will have already stopped caring. It is over. If Selmon doesnt pull this trigger idk if he is the man for this gig

[Jack Lambert]

I don't think the transfers will get out of hand. Starkville is a really good place to play college baseball regardless of coach. I don't think it's the coaching staff bringing them in. I think it the 16K fans in the Dude that impresses them. Fire his ass today.

[KOdawg1]

The first loss next year there will be tons wanting him gone and the rest will have already stopped caring. It is over. If Selmon doesnt pull this trigger idk if he is the man for this gig

Well he's not pulling the trigger. We would already know if he were going to

[EdwardDrayton]

I'm still in Zac's corner. But have to admit, his shying away from a difficult decision is more than a little disappointing. I want to believe he's the man we hired but he's not off to a great start.

[sandjunky]

I think it the 16K fans in the Dude that impresses them. Fire his ass today.

That?s an added bonus - don?t kid yourself, the elite players only care that you can help get them to the next level and elite players loathe mediocrity and laziness

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well he's not pulling the trigger. We would already know if he were going to

Appears so. Not good in my opinion. I hope he is great

[Todd4State]

I've lost a lot of respect for Todd. It's not that I disagree with his opinion, it's that he's blatantly lying about what's wrong with our team to pretend like Fox was the only issue. I point out we had other problems, and he lies more acting like Forsythe was the only defensive issue or that there's no way Lemonis could have known Hancock doesn't have the arm for catcher. It's ridiculous.

There's lots of reasons to keep Lemonis. We don't have the buyout. Selmon won't make a hire this early in his tenure. We've reached out to coaches and wouldn't be able to get anyone decent this cycle. We truly think Fox was 80% of our issues and Lemonis may fix the other 20% this off-season.

But lying about what our team's problems are? Calling us short sighted when hes wanting to keep a loosing coach to avoid a transfer or 2 from leaving this off-season? Usi g circus logic to aboud amiti g a point he made was wrong? I can't respect that

At this point there's nothing left to say. He's decided Lemonis can turn it around and thats it. I'm done talking to him about it till next season

"Blantantly lying"? Really? How many times have I mentioned defense being an issue this year? I mentioned that Alford was an issue along with Forsythe. That's 28 of our 65 errors between the two. One is off the team already and the other is pending. That's truth- and sounds like the issue is being taken care of already to me. Hancock's arm- how come no one talked about him in 2022 when he caught several games for Logan Tanner? Guess you missed Homedawg and CommerceComet saying that the issue was holding onto runners as well. At any rate Lemonis moved Hancock to first base and Hines to DH but I guess he doesn't get credit for that?

I don't think Lemonis should be back to avoid guys off of our team transferring. But if that DID happen you would be bitching about that happening too. At any rate the biggest reason I think he should stay is because if he doesn't work out next year at least we can hire the best coach possible to turn this around instead of some random mid major guy that just wants to get his foot in the door and make bank only to have to do a major search again in three years. Which is likely what would have happened unless we got really lucky.

Your whole post is hilarious. You have NO clue. Zero. None. Exactly the type of short sighted clueless football mentality thinking I was talking about to a tee. And instead of accepting the situation at hand- you call ME a liar? Really? You're a clown. Go get bent. Or thank me later in two years. I don't care- I'll be enjoying MSU baseball regardless.

[Todd4State]

Last 2 years...
53-56 overall
18-42 (.300) in sec

So, maybe it's more than losing "a game"

Yeah. Maybe it's that ERA of 7.00+

[maroonmania]

Last 2 years...
53-56 overall
18-42 (.300) in sec

So, maybe it's more than losing "a game"

Yep, that's a LOT of tantrums over the past 2 years.

[maroonmania]

I'm still in Zac's corner. But have to admit, his shying away from a difficult decision is more than a little disappointing. I want to believe he's the man we hired but he's not off to a great start.

We hired him for fundraising. For hiring coaches he's very much a Jr AD.

[msstate7]

Yeah. Maybe it's that ERA of 7.00+

The buck stops with... foxhall

[smootness]

Not sure how else you want me to take this quote- "Players aren?t the best at assessing a coach?s ability. They?re too close and too personally involved in the situation."

At any rate- you're still wrong. Players have the best insight IMO because they are around it the most and they have by far the most to gain or lose by the coach being good or bad. They also know and understand both the game and industry- something many of our fans clearly don't. If it were up to our fans they would be royally ****ing up our baseball program right now and most of them are too ignorant to understand it. Many of them are very close to our program- a lot closer than most of us ever are- and they have more insight into the inner workings of everything more than the casual fan. We have too many fans that throw childish temper tantrums because we lose a game and over half the time they're blaming the wrong thing.

Let me say this- when I'm around MLB players I listen when it comes to baseball.

At the end of the day this is a business and that business is winning games. If Lemonis doesn't do it enough he will be gone. Everyone in baseball from MLB down understands and gets that including Lemonis. It's really not that personal.

I suggested players are often too personally involved to be able to take a step back and judge objectively. That doesn?t mean those feelings are positive or specifically loyalty.

Also, there is a list a mile long of former players in all sports who royally sucked as coaches, front office people, personnel roles, etc.

You judge a coach on if he wins or not. Period.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

"Blantantly lying"? Really? How many times have I mentioned defense being an issue this year? I mentioned that Alford was an issue along with Forsythe. That's 28 of our 65 errors between the two. One is off the team already and the other is pending. That's truth- and sounds like the issue is being taken care of already to me. Hancock's arm- how come no one talked about him in 2022 when he caught several games for Logan Tanner? Guess you missed Homedawg and CommerceComet saying that the issue was holding onto runners as well. At any rate Lemonis moved Hancock to first base and Hines to DH but I guess he doesn't get credit for that?

I don't think Lemonis should be back to avoid guys off of our team transferring. But if that DID happen you would be bitching about that happening too. At any rate the biggest reason I think he should stay is because if he doesn't work out next year at least we can hire the best coach possible to turn this around instead of some random mid major guy that just wants to get his foot in the door and make bank only to have to do a major search again in three years. Which is likely what would have happened unless we got really lucky.

Your whole post is hilarious. You have NO clue. Zero. None. Exactly the type of short sighted clueless football mentality thinking I was talking about to a tee. And instead of accepting the situation at hand- you call ME a liar? Really? You're a clown. Go get bent. Or thank me later in two years. I don't care- I'll be enjoying MSU baseball regardless.

Removing players who've made errors doesn't make the team good defensively. By your logic if we kicked off every player that made an error we'll make 0 errors next year! The reality is that Forsythe is likely replaced by Mershon who's not much better with the glove. Alford played for a reason too- we don't have a 3B.

But let's say we do replace those 2 with defensive studs. Say a 3B that only makes 4 errors all season And a Ss who makes 6. That reduces our errors by 18! But we'd STILL be 10th in the league defensively. That's right, we can replace the 2 players you are putting all the blame on with + defenders and still be a bad defensive team.

Also, may I remind you that it's the HEAD COACHES JOB TO GET GOOD PLAYERS. Just saying "Well Alford sucks at 3rd" doesn't excuse Lemonis because Lemonis is the one who controls the roster.

And Hancock. If his only proglblem was "pitchers not holding the runners" why did the problem of runners stealing go away with Highfill? You'll probably say "because the pitchers got better" but in that case why keep passed ball machine Highfill back at catcher? Why not have Hancock be the starter again? Because his arm is the problem.

You keep making no actual points that stand up to criticism.

[Pancho]

just wait til april of 24 and send him off mid season

[RockyDog]

I've lost a lot of respect for Todd. It's not that I disagree with his opinion, it's that he's blatantly lying about what's wrong with our team to pretend like Fox was the only issue. I point out we had other problems, and he lies more acting like Forsythe was the only defensive issue or that there's no way Lemonis could have known Hancock doesn't have the arm for catcher. It's ridiculous.

There's lots of reasons to keep Lemonis. We don't have the buyout. Selmon won't make a hire this early in his tenure. We've reached out to coaches and wouldn't be able to get anyone decent this cycle. We truly think Fox was 80% of our issues and Lemonis may fix the other 20% this off-season.

But lying about what our team's problems are? Calling us short sighted when hes wanting to keep a loosing coach to avoid a transfer or 2 from leaving this off-season? Usi g circus logic to aboud amiti g a point he made was wrong? I can't respect that

At this point there's nothing left to say. He's decided Lemonis can turn it around and thats it. I'm done talking to him about it till next season

Todd talks out his ass and predicts Omaha just about every year. The only person proclaiming him an expert is himself.

[Todd4State]

Removing players who've made errors doesn't make the team good defensively. By your logic if we kicked off every player that made an error we'll make 0 errors next year! The reality is that Forsythe is likely replaced by Mershon who's not much better with the glove. Alford played for a reason too- we don't have a 3B.

But let's say we do replace those 2 with defensive studs. Say a 3B that only makes 4 errors all season And a Ss who makes 6. That reduces our errors by 18! But we'd STILL be 10th in the league defensively. That's right, we can replace the 2 players you are putting all the blame on with + defenders and still be a bad defensive team.

Also, may I remind you that it's the HEAD COACHES JOB TO GET GOOD PLAYERS. Just saying "Well Alford sucks at 3rd" doesn't excuse Lemonis because Lemonis is the one who controls the roster.

And Hancock. If his only proglblem was "pitchers not holding the runners" why did the problem of runners stealing go away with Highfill? You'll probably say "because the pitchers got better" but in that case why keep passed ball machine Highfill back at catcher? Why not have Hancock be the starter again? Because his arm is the problem.

You keep making no actual points that stand up to criticism.

Nice strawman to start that off. If you don't think that taking out our two worst defenders out of the lineup and then replacing them with better defenders will improve our defense I don't know what else to tell you. I guess you don't believe in free agency in any sport then by your logic? Mershon was playing out of position. Moving him to second base will also help the defense.

And by the way- the difference between 4th and 10th in the SEC in defense is 0.05 percentage points. Actually we would be tied for 9th in your scenario as the 9th place team had the exact same fielding percentage as the 10th place team liar.

We moved Hancock to first base because Hines was struggling there defensively but we had to keep his bat in. So they moved Hancock back to first base and kept Highfill in at catcher. And yes, holding runners was absolutely an issue. In the second game of the year VMI had a ridiculous 11 SB attempts in one game and 15 for the entire weekend. That's almost half of the entire attempts on Hancock who caught at least once a weekend the rest of the season. How come no one else stole on us like that the rest of the year?

[Todd4State]

Todd talks out his ass and predicts Omaha just about every year. The only person proclaiming him an expert is himself.

Speaking of talking out of your ass...

By the way I at least bring something to the board unlike you. I'm sure you're used to being worthless and pathetic though.

[Pancho]

todd, i get the fact that you have faith in what you think and say but who in the hell is going to locate, evaluate and then get us the better defenders and the several SEC arms that this team needs. Lemo cannot perform these tasks.

[msstate7]

Nice strawman to start that off. If you don't think that taking out our two worst defenders out of the lineup and then replacing them with better defenders will improve our defense I don't know what else to tell you. I guess you don't believe in free agency in any sport then by your logic? Mershon was playing out of position. Moving him to second base will also help the defense.

And by the way- the difference between 4th and 10th in the SEC in defense is 0.05 percentage points. Actually we would be tied for 9th in your scenario as the 9th place team had the exact same fielding percentage as the 10th place team liar.

We moved Hancock to first base because Hines was struggling there defensively but we had to keep his bat in. So they moved Hancock back to first base and kept Highfill in at catcher. And yes, holding runners was absolutely an issue. In the second game of the year VMI had a ridiculous 11 SB attempts in one game and 15 for the entire weekend. That's almost half of the entire attempts on Hancock who caught at least once a weekend the rest of the season. How come no one else stole on us like that the rest of the year?

Missouri is 13th in fielding at .970. We're last at .964. Seems close, right? Missouri committed 53 errors, and we committed 63. Since we having fun with percentages, we committed 18.9% more errors than the 13th place team.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Nice strawman to start that off. If you don't think that taking out our two worst defenders out of the lineup and then replacing them with better defenders will improve our defense I don't know what else to tell you.

Lol talk about strawman. Where did I say replacing our worst defenders with better ones wouldn't make us better defensively? On the contrary- literally did the math to show that even with really good defenders replacing the guys you want to pin all blame on we'd STILL be a bad defensive team. YOU are the one making 2 claims: 1) that Forsythe and Alford leaving will fix our defense, and 2) that Lemonis shouldn't be held responsible for this.

Which I'd like to touch more on BTW, I don't see why the head coach shouldn't be held responsible for fielding the worst defense in the conference.


Mershon was also playing out of position. Moving him to 2nd will also help with defense

This is a complete assumption from you


We moved Hancock to first base because Hines was struggling there defensively

Lol I love how you want to say Lemonis isn't to blame for the D and that Alford and Forsythe are our problem defensively then admit that a different year 2 player is so bad defensively we had to pull him and screw up catcher in the process. And Hines is a player we will rely on next year too btw. Again, it's not just Forsythe and Alford that are our problems. And shouldn't maybe Lemonis have noticed that Hines isn't good defensively and had him work on it? This all comes back to Lemo is not having the team ready.

[Homedawg]

Not trying to get in the middle of a good argument, but the plan is for Mershon to be at second next year. He's not a college ss.

[Cowbell]

Missouri is 13th in fielding at .970. We're last at .964. Seems close, right? Missouri committed 53 errors, and we committed 63. Since we having fun with percentages, we committed 18.9% more errors than the 13th place team.

And this doesn't take into account our home field scorer crediting the pitchers with hits instead of our infield with errors many times this season.

[Cowbell]

Not trying to get in the middle of a good argument, but the plan is for Mershon to be at second next year. He's not a college ss.

I disagree with this. He showed that he is certainly capable but even better if we have someone more capable.

[Coach34]

todd, i get the fact that you have faith in what you think and say but who in the hell is going to locate, evaluate and then get us the better defenders and the several SEC arms that this team needs. Lemo cannot perform these tasks.

So signing one of the top rated SS is not a good thing? Lemon is doing this. MLB must not be able to evaluate either as they have him 103rd best prospect in the draft

[Coach34]

I disagree with this. He showed that he is certainly capable but even better if we have someone more capable.

As I just posted- we have signed one of the top-rated SS in the country. The plan is for him to be the SS and Mershon to play 2nd

[Homedawg]

I disagree with this. He showed that he is certainly capable but even better if we have someone more capable.

He can play it in a pinch. But he's a second baseman.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Everyone's getting g lost in the weeds over specifics of 2B and SS.

The fact is, Lemonis has been here 5 seasons and has missed Hoover his last 2. Our defense in year 5 was awful.

Why would we believe he'll turn it around in year 6? Why we believe he'll fix the defense he broke?

We canned Moorhead after 2 years where he made the postseason in both. But Lemonis gets a year 6 after missing the postseason in year 4 and 5? What?

[Coach34]

Stands and Jovester were fired in money-making sports due to chaos in their programs making the school look bad. Not because of their coaching records. And neither won a Natty

The Natty gets Lemon a 3rd strike. You can bitch all you want. He is not being fired

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Stands and Jovester were fired in money-making sports due to chaos in their programs making the school look bad. Not because of their coaching records. And neither won a Natty

The Natty gets Lemon a 3rd strike. You can bitch all you want. He is not being fired

I'm aware he's not getting fired. That doesn't mean we should pretend it's the right call, or lie to ourselves that he'll turn it around.

And I'm aware Moorhead got fired because of the embarrassing Gay-Shrader fight. Point is, there wasn't ONE PERSON ON THIS BOARD saying he should get a year 3, even before that incident. We all saw that the team was not playing up to par under him. Nobody was talking about a specific recruit that would come in and change things, or pinning blame on an assistant, or saying 2 years isn't enough time, or saying "no good coach will come here if we fire him after 2 bowl seasons", we saw he sucked and wanted him gone.

And Revenue vs non revenue?? You know as a coach how weak that argument is. "Football is important so we fire bad coaches, but baseball doesn't make money so let's conceded another year and keep the crappy coach till he's cheap to replace". Do we want to win or not? But again, you can make the argument that "we are better off using the 6M on NIL and swallowing a year of suck in baseball". That's a fine view to have. But it's NOT the same as pretending Lemonis is likely to turn things around. We all know he's over his head just like Moorhead.

Natty doesn't matter anymore and you know it. This is about what's best for us going forward, not what a coach has done in the past.

Honestly I don't even think you believe what you're saying. You've blasted Lemonis plenty throughout the season and there's no new info to change things. I think you're trying g to calm us down and keep the tickets selling and donations rolling in by convincing us we can turn it around. That may be what's best for State but it's not the truth of the situation

[msstate7]

And this doesn't take into account our home field scorer crediting the pitchers with hits instead of our infield with errors many times this season.

And that inflated an already high ERA

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And that inflated an already high ERA

Hard to quantify the error vs hits home cooking because everybody does it to some degree

[PMDawg]

Not trying to get in the middle of a good argument, but the plan is for Mershon to be at second next year. He's not a college ss.

And yet, our coach is so good at recruiting, using the portal, development, and coaching that he's who we had playing SS. That's kind of the whole point here (which I know you're not arguing against) - Lemonis is horrible at almost every aspect of his job. Firing Fox definitely gives us a boost, but keeping this clown (who we all agree should've fired Fox a year ago) puts a hard cap on that boost.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

And yet, our coach is so good at recruiting, using the portal, development, and coaching that he's who we had playing SS. That's kind of the whole point here (which I know you're not arguing against) - Lemonis is horrible at almost every aspect of his job. Firing Fox definitely gives us a boost, but keeping this clown (who we all agree should've fired Fox a year ago) puts a hard cap on that boost.

Seriously that's the thing. Of we played good defense and had a offense that wasn't average to below average in offense (9th in batting average, 7th is SLG, 7th in OBP, 10th in runs) then sure, replacing Fox may be all we need. He'll, of this was year 3 we could actually blame the Cohen-cann-Henderson chaos. But it's year 5.

We are bad on defense, mediocre on offense, make bad in-game decision, make bad roster decisions, make bad NIL decisions (Stinnett) and its YEAR 5. why would I trust Lemonis to kame a good PC hire and fix all the rest?

[R2Dawg]

Everyone's getting g lost in the weeds over specifics of 2B and SS.

The fact is, Lemonis has been here 5 seasons and has missed Hoover his last 2. Our defense in year 5 was awful.

Why would we believe he'll turn it around in year 6? Why we believe he'll fix the defense he broke?

We canned Moorhead after 2 years where he made the postseason in both. But Lemonis gets a year 6 after missing the postseason in year 4 and 5? What?

I don't think anyone has missed the craptastic job the past two years but Lemo did win a NC and that buys you a lot of capital but Lemo has used it all now. Next year is do or die. Make a regional or you are done IMO.

[R2Dawg]

Seriously that's the thing. Of we played good defense and had a offense that wasn't average to below average in offense (9th in batting average, 7th is SLG, 7th in OBP, 10th in runs) then sure, replacing Fox may be all we need. He'll, of this was year 3 we could actually blame the Cohen-cann-Henderson chaos. But it's year 5.

We are bad on defense, mediocre on offense, make bad in-game decision, make bad roster decisions, make bad NIL decisions (Stinnett) and its YEAR 5. why would I trust Lemonis to kame a good PC hire and fix all the rest?

My concern as well. People can point to but look what he did in first 2-3 years but he walked into that situation. Basically he has never been where he is now or what he came into ever in his career so we don't know what will happen. It don't look good from here though. Hoping he turns it around as that is best for our program.

[KOdawg1]

Not trying to get in the middle of a good argument, but the plan is for Mershon to be at second next year. He's not a college ss.
Seems like the best move. Let Cupp and maybe a transfer battle it out at SS. But I think if Cupp comes to school, it'll be under the impression that he's the starter

[Coach34]

I don't think anyone has missed the craptastic job the past two years but Lemo did win a NC and that buys you a lot of capital but Lemo has used it all now. Next year is do or die. Make a regional or you are done IMO.

This. He may fail next season. Wouldn’t surprise anybody if he did. But I think he deserves a shot at it

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This. He may fail next season. Wouldn’t surprise anybody if he did. But I think he deserves a shot at it

Why? And why not Moorhead?

[Coach34]

Why? And why not Moorhead?

He won a Natty

Jovester was hand delivered a 10 win team and turned it into an 8-5 team, had the chaos of LB's hurting QB's, told the fanbase to kick rocks, and finished it off by having the whole floor of a hotel they stayed in for the bowl game smelling like a weed dispensary.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He won a Natty

Jovester was hand delivered a 10 win team and turned it into an 8-5 team, had the chaos of LB's hurting QB's, told the fanbase to kick rocks, and finished it off by having the whole floor of a hotel they stayed in for the bowl game smelling like a weed dispensary.

And Lemonis was handed a Omaha team, won a Natty with it (to his credit) and has turned it into 14th and 13th placed finishes since. Worse than Moorhead ever did.

You know he's not going to build us back up. I respect your goal (creating fan support for the program) but I can't agree with the method (twisting the data the to get people to think Lemonis can build us back up to State standards)

Ultimately Todd has fallen silent and you've fallen back to "he deserves a year 3" as the reason to keep him, not "here's reasons he'll do great going forward". Yall are the only 2 who seem to be optimistic.

I think that says a lot about the situation (or maybe just how annoying I am to argue with)

[Coach34]

Arm injuries killed 2022
Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple

[Quaoarsking]

Arm injuries killed 2022
Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple

The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.

Top 10 classes, top 5 paid staff, top 5 facilities, top 5 fanbase, top 10 in biggest names in college baseball, and all for field of 64 results.

But hey, he deserves a year 3! What kind of a coach would want to come here anyway? Nobody would come here with our ridiculous standards like "don't miss Hoover back to back years".

[smootness]

And that is the problem - if he improves somewhat and makes the tournament but we're not even hosting a regional, will we have the guts then to fire him? If it looks bad to fire a coach 2 years after the only national title in school history, doesn't it still look bad to fire that same coach after he improves in year 3?

Obviously if we miss the tournament again, he's gone. That's a given. But what kind of improvement would be needed for him to keep his job after next year? Because a 3-year span in which we are horrific 2 of those years and a 2 seed in one of them is no better than a 2-year span in which we are horrific. They are both nowhere near MSU standards.

If I'm Selmon, I fire him now because I don't believe he's the guy. But if I do bring him back, it is explicitly clear that the only way he keeps his job is if we host a regional.

[Coach34]

Top 10 classes, top 5 paid staff, top 5 facilities, top 5 fanbase, top 10 in biggest names in college baseball, and all for field of 64 results.

But hey, he deserves a year 3! What kind of a coach would want to come here anyway? Nobody would come here with our ridiculous standards like "don't miss Hoover back to back years".

But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

I just don’t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney

[Cowbell]

As I just posted- we have signed one of the top-rated SS in the country. The plan is for him to be the SS and Mershon to play 2nd

Most are aware and are excited if he doesn't get drafted. But Mershon can definitely play it if needed

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

I just don’t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney

If he makes a Super of course he should come back. Being in the final 16 teams is perfectly acceptable. But if he makes a regional as a 3 seed and goes 1-2... well still bring him back but it'll just be to waste another year cause he doesn't have it.

Hope I'm wrong

[CaptainObvious]

Arm injuries killed 2022
Bad pitching from top to bottom killed 2023

Improve the pitching and we are back in the NCAA's. It's pretty simple

I contend that a new coach with a new staff has as good if not better chance of improving the pitching.

Why do we have to take the chance that he fails again next year. What is the difference in Lemonis improving the team to 32-24 (12-18 SEC) and squeaking into Hoover and sweating out getting a 3 or 4 seed and another coach doing the same. Which one is really re-building the program?

[Coach34]

Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
Get some impact portal guys

This team could be really good next year

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
Get some impact portal guys

This team could be really good next year

Come on, we both know you don't believe this stuff. We'll be OK because we have Hujesak and his .238 batting average that couldn't beat our error machine Alford at 3rd? Loo and Holcombe with their 8+ERA are so easy to "fix" that they we should expect them to be SEC starters? Mershon's bad glove will be solid just because he'll play 2b? A true Fr SS will be a stud because the MLB thinks he has potential? Simmons off TJ will immediately be good to go? Highfill will improve just... because he will? There's a whole lot of assumptions and wishful thinking going on here.

Don't talk about us having 'no idea about college baseball' while you act like every pitcher with potential will pan out. 1/3 guys with potential make it. For every Small there's a Cerantola and a Walling. You know next years staff will be a mess due to how many non SEC players we've recruited and how under coached everyone is. A new PC can't fix this mess that quick.

Will we be improved next year? Yes, because the defense can't get worse and the pitching will definitely get better under literally any pitching coach and the offense returns some good players. BUT, all that's true with a different HC too.

"this team could be really good next year" this is just really transparent trying to hype up the fans to buy tickets and donate. Literally nobody but you is saying we'll be "really good" next year. We need players to take massive steps defensively, improve offensively, need to get lucky with the Draft, nail some position Portal players (which to be fail, Lemonis has been good at), have a historically good pitching portal haul, AND make the right PC hire to develop what we have and manage the mess well. that's a whoooool lot that has to go right for Mr "I missed Hoover then did nothing to fix it that offseason and missed it again".

Nobody is drinking the Kool-Aid you're selling. Even Todd isn't this optimistic. 3 weeks ago what were you calling Lemonis? "Lemonizik", was it?

[Coach34]

I dont care if you believe it or not. We could easily be a Top 16 seed next year. We just need a few more parts and Lemon pushing the right buttons. Can Lemon make it happen? Thats the question. His job is riding on it. We shall see.

I dont have to do anything for fans to buy tickets. Our stadium chairbacks are sold out every year. That isnt changing. Nobody is giving up their OF spot after having it for 30-40 years

[schddog72]

I don't think anyone has missed the craptastic job the past two years but Lemo did win a NC and that buys you a lot of capital but Lemo has used it all now. Next year is do or die. Make a regional or you are done IMO.

I do not buy the argument that Lemo "won" the NC; he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. The pieces for winning that natty were already in place; he just went along for the ride and got the credit.

[schddog72]

Seriously that's the thing. Of we played good defense and had a offense that wasn't average to below average in offense (9th in batting average, 7th is SLG, 7th in OBP, 10th in runs) then sure, replacing Fox may be all we need. He'll, of this was year 3 we could actually blame the Cohen-cann-Henderson chaos. But it's year 5.

We are bad on defense, mediocre on offense, make bad in-game decision, make bad roster decisions, make bad NIL decisions (Stinnett) and its YEAR 5. why would I trust Lemonis to kame a good PC hire and fix all the rest?

Witness choosing to pitch to a guy (aTm) a third time after he has already hit two out of the Dude and thereby beats us literally singlehandedly. That's little-league bad decision making.

[Quaoarsking]

But what if we make it as a 3 seed and then end up in a Super?

I just don?t see us firing him if we make the NCAA Tourney

The NCAA Tournament is poorly designed for baseball and is basically a weighted crapshoot. I don't put much stock into postseason results, unless it becomes a thing that a coach is consistently underachieving in the postseason, year-in, year-out.

The regular season is the standard to measure a coach against. I would feel a lot better about the program going forward if next year we host but get upset in the regional (especially if we're not 0-2) than getting a 3 seed and then lucking into winning the Regional. It's a sliding scale though. I'd be very happy with being one of the first couple of teams to miss hosting and then winning the Regional anyway (like in 2017).

In the 10-year/9-season stretch from 2021 through 2022, we went:
2012 - barely missed hosting
2013 - hosted
2014 - barely missed hosting
2015 - oops
2016 - hosted with top 8 national seed
2017 - barley missed hosting
2018 - bad extenuating circumstance but still managed a 2 seed
2019 - hosted with top 8 national seed
2021 - hosted with top 8 national seed

That's the standard we should hold the program to. 7 of the 9 years we we either hosted, or we had a winning SEC record and were in the hosting discussion, also in 1 of those years we started out really poorly but played like a host in the 2nd half of the season.

I'm not going to overreact to the postseason results of any particular year as far as judging the coaches, but in that same stretch, we won 6 Regionals, went to Omaha 4 times, played for the title twice, and won it once. Even though the exact postseason results don't line up exactly on a year-to-year basis, we've on average outperformed our seeding by just a little bit.

So to answer your question - if we have a losing SEC record and get a 3 seed next year, then yes, I would probably support firing Lemonis even if we won a Regional, because it would indicate that the team still isn't living up to the standards that any reasonably competent head coach should have it at (nor to the level of talent our recruiting classes suggest we will have), but I would at least consider extenuating circumstances if there were any. If we host next year and lose the Regional, I would be very likely to support bringing back Lemonis in 2025, and I'll admit that I was too harsh in my judgment of him throughout this season.

[99jc]

Here is where I see many of you have no idea about college baseball. There's almost no chance of an SEC team being a 4 seed in the NCAA Tourney.

We have a solid core of players. With improved pitching, some good portal moves, and freshmen living up to hype we could be a top 16 seed next year. Damn- we have 4 pitchers on campus already that can start on the weekend- Loftin, Loo, Simmons, and Holcombe. Fix them

Hines and Jordan are All-SEC players.
Mershon should be an outstanding leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman next year
Highfill can swing it and will be improved at Catcher
Hugesak could be back and be a solid player
Get some impact portal guys

This team could be really good next year

Man i cant believe you are drinking this kool-aid. Pass me some CBD gummies your taking.

[Pancho]

it appears that lemonczik(what coach 34 used to call the HC) only needs a legit closer for next year, oh and a couple portal hitters who can field a ball and subsequently toss it over to the bag at 1B.

[PMDawg]

The standard is hosting, not merely making the NCAA Tournament. Lemonis should be fired next year if we aren't at least one of the top few 2 seeds who barely missed hosting. If we are a 3 seed without a winning SEC record, that's not good enough.

It would be fine to have a year like that on occasion when we're regularly hosting, but not as a 3-year peak.

AMEN!

[bulldogcountry1]

Hujsak made 25 errors and fielded just barely over .900 last season at VCU. He's not an SEC player, and it was a waste signing him. At the time, I'm sure Lemonis didn't think Forsythe and Alford would make 28 errors this season, but it's obvious none of those guys are the answer.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Hujsak made 25 errors and fielded just barely over .900 last season at VCU. He's not an SEC player, and it was a waste signing him. At the time, I'm sure Lemonis didn't think Forsythe and Alford would make 28 errors this season, but it's obvious none of those guys are the answer.

Wow I did not know that. Yet C34 has to mention Hujsak at 3B in the reasons we'll be a good team next season... shows how far you have to sunshine pump to say well be good next season. But I suspect if he responds he'll just act like we can get a stud 3B out of the Portal

[Homedawg]

We will be actively pursuing a 3b from the portal

[Coach34]

Hujsak made 25 errors and fielded just barely over .900 last season at VCU. He's not an SEC player, and it was a waste signing him. At the time, I'm sure Lemonis didn't think Forsythe and Alford would make 28 errors this season, but it's obvious none of those guys are the answer.

You just gonna leave off that he hit 12 HR's and 20 doubles in 2022??? Or that those errors were at SS- not 3rd or in the OF?

[Cowbell]

it appears that lemonczik(what coach 34 used to call the HC) only needs a legit closer for next year, oh and a couple portal hitters who can field a ball and subsequently toss it over to the bag at 1B.

We need two legitimate weekend starters atleast

[SPMT]

Witness choosing to pitch to a guy (aTm) a third time after he has already hit two out of the Dude and thereby beats us literally singlehandedly. That's little-league bad decision making.


I can?t disagree with the pitching to 17. Dude is pretty freakish and also was on fire.

I?ve seen travel ball coaches intentionally walk kids multiple times if they have been smashing doubles and triples and they can get a force at any base.

[Pancho]

We need two legitimate weekend starters atleast

I agree but coach 34 says we already have the guys. it's just that all 7 of them need to make a huge jump at the same time*******

[CaptainObvious]

Doesn?t matter. We are stuck with Lemon-head-ray.

[Pancho]

Doesn?t matter. We are stuck with Lemon-head-ray.

I like that name. It's fitting

[R2Dawg]

That?s an added bonus - don?t kid yourself, the elite players only care that you can help get them to the next level and elite players loathe mediocrity and laziness

This is a fact. Elite players also want to play at an elite program and that we are. Just a visit to the Dude or a weekend series and I don't know why they would go anywhere else.

[Coach34]

We need two legitimate weekend starters atleast

We'll get that from Simmons, Loo, Loftin, and Holcombe. But I'm all for bringing in more pitching talent.

Most pitchers are better after TJ surgery. Simmons will be 21 months post surgery come January. I expect him to have a really good year

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our evaluations are so bad we are having to be excited about 2 year old stats

[Todd4State]

Our evaluations are so bad we are having to be excited about 2 year old stats

"Evaluations" or just not coached? It appears to me that our guys weren't coached very well at all.

[BuckyIsAB****]

"Evaluations" or just not coached? It appears to me that our guys weren't coached very well at all.

Well Hujsak was not a pitcher