Lem will be back

[KOdawg1]

Unless he gets swept and run ruled this coming weekend, he'll be back. He saved himself this weekend.

You might disagree with it, and I might be with you, but it's where we're at.

Get a good pitching coach, hit the portal hard for pitchers, and build around our talented young core and highly ranked recruiting class.

[sandjunky]

Fantastic news!

Let?s suck again next year and then make the move so we can transition for 2 more after

[Coach34]

I'm not a big dawg as many of you know- but I do hear things because I know a few people. The guys that pass me info- not one has said Lemonizik is gone fo sho. Not one. And some think he was going to get next year regardless of this weekend.

I just dont see us making a change.

Especially when our AD says he absolutely doesnt want to have to hire a baseball coach as his 1st move as AD

[Commercecomet24]

I'm not a big dawg as many of you know- but I do hear things because I know a few people. The guys that pass me info- not one has said Lemonizik is gone fo sho. Not one. And some think he was going to get next year regardless of this weekend.

I just dont see us making a change.

Especially when our AD says he absolutely doesnt want to have to hire a baseball coach as his 1st move as AD

This.

[Dawgface]

Especially when our AD says he absolutely doesnt want to have to hire a baseball coach as his 1st move as AD

So what would he prefer his first move to be? Hiring our first wrestling coach? Might be awhile on that one.

[Coach34]

So what would he prefer his first move to be? Hiring our first wrestling coach? Might be awhile on that one.

Dude wants to get comfortable in the job before making a Big 3 hire

[Dawgface]

Ha. Well crap?..maybe he will be comfortable enough to do something in 2024.

[msu15]

That would definitely be the Mississippi State thing to do. Sounds like Selmon is fitting in already.

[basedog]

That would definitely be the Mississippi State thing to do. Sounds like Selmon is fitting in already.

I say it doesn’t sound good if so.

[Pancho]

Any idea who will aid him in improving pitcher evals? I'd rather not have 7 or 8 guys who aren't SEC caliber arms on the team next year.

[Dawgface]

I say it doesn’t sound good if so.
I guess reality is if the money boys doesn?t want to spend the money there?s nothing for him to do anyway.

[AlSwearengen]

Any idea who will aid him in improving pitcher evals? I'd rather not have 7 or 8 guys who aren't SEC caliber arms on the team next year.

This is my concern. I think Lemonis was genuinely surprised that we sucked and I think it must stem from the fact that he and whoever else evaluates didn’t really understand just how bad the pitching staff was.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This is my concern. I think Lemonis was genuinely surprised that we sucked and I think it must stem from the fact that he and whoever else evaluates didn’t really understand just how bad the pitching staff was.

I mean Lemones also thought Hancock could play catcher, can't blame that one on Fox. He's just very hit or miss on his evals. Gets some studs but wastes a lot of roster spots as well

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I'm not a big dawg as many of you know- but I do hear things because I know a few people. The guys that pass me info- not one has said Lemonizik is gone fo sho. Not one. And some think he was going to get next year regardless of this weekend.

I just dont see us making a change.

Especially when our AD says he absolutely doesnt want to have to hire a baseball coach as his 1st move as AD

I think you are correct and I trust your insight.

But let me say this and be clear: If this AD is scared to do his job then we’ve got the wrong guy. I’m certainly not saying he should get rid of Lemonis, Jans, or Arnett. But if he is reluctant or afraid to make a big 3 hire then we’ve got the wrong guy. A real leader would have that confidence and ability the first 15 minutes he was on the job. This is a big boy league. The timid, the reluctant, the bashful need to be in the Sun Belt Conference.

[Coach34]

I hear ya and the point is valid. However, while our AD could 100% be right guy- expecting him to make the best hire in a realm where he has little to none experience is asking alot. He is a marketing, football guy that probably has a pulse on basketball coaches. Baseball is likely a place he is working to know his place. Dealing with agents as well as knowing the candidates. I seriously cant blame him for wanting to put off making this hire

[maroonmania]

This is my concern. I think Lemonis was genuinely surprised that we sucked and I think it must stem from the fact that he and whoever else evaluates didn’t really understand just how bad the pitching staff was.

And while the 2 wins this weekend were great our pitching still totally sucked in 2 of the 3 games. Defense was definitely better this weekend though.

[Quaoarsking]

I seriously cant blame him for wanting to put off making this hire

I can. This is the gоddamn SEC and if he can't handle the duties of the job, he needs to turn in his resignation immediately.

[Cooterpoot]

Lem improved his odds but nothing is set in stone yet. We'll see what next week holds. Lem has to prove he can hire a great pitching coach as well. That's not a given unless Chris Young is waiting. He's going to miss the SEC tournament two straight years barring a miracle.
He had better figure out that his loyalties to players do not supersede his 17ing job to win games. He's not a great coach. I think the biggest question is whether simply making a regional is going to become our acceptable level of success. That's all Lem is going to do with his recruits IMO. The AD is wanting to pass the Buck. Disappointed in that. Money isn't a problem at all. We pay a top 5 salary. We get bottom of the SEC results.

[maroonmania]

I can. This is the gоddamn SEC and if he can't handle the duties of the job, he needs to turn in his resignation immediately.

Exactly, if he keeps Lem it better be because he's convinced it's the right move for the program. Not because "well, he just wasn't comfortable enough in the job yet to make a big hire." That's BS.

[Todd4State]

I'm not a big dawg as many of you know- but I do hear things because I know a few people. The guys that pass me info- not one has said Lemonizik is gone fo sho. Not one. And some think he was going to get next year regardless of this weekend.

I just dont see us making a change.

Especially when our AD says he absolutely doesnt want to have to hire a baseball coach as his 1st move as AD

It makes a lot of sense to bring him back if you take everything into consideration with our situation.

[Todd4State]

Lem improved his odds but nothing is set in stone yet. We'll see what next week holds. Lem has to prove he can hire a great pitching coach as well. That's not a given unless Chris Young is waiting. He's going to miss the SEC tournament two straight years barring a miracle.
He had better figure out that his loyalties to players do not supersede his 17ing job to win games. He's not a great coach. I think the biggest question is whether simply making a regional is going to become our acceptable level of success. That's all Lem is going to do with his recruits IMO. The AD is wanting to pass the Buck. Disappointed in that. Money isn't a problem at all. We pay a top 5 salary. We get bottom of the SEC results.

We would have at least 8 more wins right now with a below average pitching coach.

Lemonis is a hitting guy and he has done better than Foxhall did as far as managing the staff.

[TNDawg35]

We would have at least 8 more wins right now with a below average pitching coach.

Lemonis is a hitting guy and he has done better than Foxhall did as far as managing the staff.

I have to agree with this. He yanked Holcomb Sat and then Hunt Sun quickly instead of letting them walk to bases loaded. I would be fine with him staying. Throw the money at a pitching coach and then go out and raid the portal for as many pitchers as we can. We have a really good core coming back next year, just need a 3B, a CF, RF, and a back up catcher. I’m not up to date on the recruiting class but I know we have a stud SS committed if he makes it through the draft. Hopefully we have some stud pitchers coming also. I know I did see the juco kid who was pitcher of year in the cape. (Sidearm kid who was plum nasty)

[CaptainObvious]

If Missouri and or Georgia win 1 game next weekend, State is eliminated from SEC tourney even if State sweeps A & M. No way he should be back next year. Lemonis is the Author, Editor, and Publisher of the Horror Story. I expect significant Portal entries by key players at end of season whether he is back or not. But we need new blood at the top.

[Quaoarsking]

Just being happy with Hoover is a ridiculously low standard for a program of our caliber, and Lemonis is about to fail at even that for the second consecutive year. It's just mind-boggling how some people could be OK with letting him do this for a 3rd year.

Yeah, the series win at LSU is awesome, but we're still not anywhere close to being a fringe bubble candidate for a Regional. Even if we sweep next week and finish 11-19 we're not going to get an at large bid no matter what. Most solid coaches would have taken this team to a Regional, but Lemonis wasn't able to.

[Todd4State]

Just being happy with Hoover is a ridiculously low standard for a program of our caliber, and Lemonis is about to fail at even that for the second consecutive year. It's just mind-boggling how some people could be OK with letting him do this for a 3rd year.

Yeah, the series win at LSU is awesome, but we're still not anywhere close to being a fringe bubble candidate for a Regional. Even if we sweep next week and finish 11-19 we're not going to get an at large bid no matter what. Most solid coaches would have taken this team to a Regional, but Lemonis wasn't able to.

No one is just OK with going to Hoover.

To me this is like when Dan went 6-7 with an Egg Bowl win and Peter Sirmon as our DC. We all knew that Dan had some success with us and we all knew that Sirmon was obviously THE problem. We all knew that Dan could turn it around with a better DC- which he did in 2017.

I feel pretty confident that Lemonis will turn it around with a new PC.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this team has talent to where it can be turned around pretty quickly I think.

[KOdawg1]

Just being happy with Hoover is a ridiculously low standard for a program of our caliber, and Lemonis is about to fail at even that for the second consecutive year. It's just mind-boggling how some people could be OK with letting him do this for a 3rd year.

Yeah, the series win at LSU is awesome, but we're still not anywhere close to being a fringe bubble candidate for a Regional. Even if we sweep next week and finish 11-19 we're not going to get an at large bid no matter what. Most solid coaches would have taken this team to a Regional, but Lemonis wasn't able to.

No one is okay with just making Hoover

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

No one is just OK with going to Hoover.

To me this is like when Dan went 6-7 with an Egg Bowl win and Peter Sirmon as our DC. We all knew that Dan had some success with us and we all knew that Sirmon was obviously THE problem. We all knew that Dan could turn it around with a better DC- which he did in 2017.

I feel pretty confident that Lemonis will turn it around with a new PC.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this team has talent to where it can be turned around pretty quickly I think.

If our only problem was pitching? Sure.

But we have the worst defense in the league. Our offense is underperforming (10th in runs scored, 7th in OBP, 7th in SLG% vs our above league average recruiting and resources).

We also make some bad decisions regarding position personel (relying on Hackcock as a catcher)

So would a new Pitching coach make us better? Yes. Probably regional level better. But I have no faith Lemonis can get us to an actual high level of play which is our goal.

[was21]

He doesn't want to hire one? Or he doesn't want to fire one?

[basedog]

We would have at least 8 more wins right now with a below average pitching coach.

Lemonis is a hitting guy and he has done better than Foxhall did as far as managing the staff.

Playing the what if game doesn't matter, it is what it is because of Lemonis. Just saying.

[Quaoarsking]

No one is okay with just making Hoover

Actually a lot of people are, sadly.

[Quaoarsking]

No one is just OK with going to Hoover.

To me this is like when Dan went 6-7 with an Egg Bowl win and Peter Sirmon as our DC. We all knew that Dan had some success with us and we all knew that Sirmon was obviously THE problem. We all knew that Dan could turn it around with a better DC- which he did in 2017.

I feel pretty confident that Lemonis will turn it around with a new PC.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this team has talent to where it can be turned around pretty quickly I think.

These last 2 seasons are the equivalent of going 3-9 or worse in football, not 6-7. And doing it in a world where we are one of only 4 schools in the SEC who cares.

[basedog]

Actually a lot of people are, sadly.

Amazing but to each their own.

[maroonmania]

So would a new Pitching coach make us better? Yes. Probably regional level better. But I have no faith Lemonis can get us to an actual high level of play which is our goal.

We need a BIG upgrade at pitching coach not just a new one. Lemonis is the guy that hired and retained Lemonis who we all believe was terrible. Does Lemonis know a good pitching coach when he sees one? That's very much TBD at this point.

[Cooterpoot]

We would have at least 8 more wins right now with a below average pitching coach.

Lemonis is a hitting guy and he has done better than Foxhall did as far as managing the staff.

We don't have the pitchers. Lemonis signs off on recruiting. He's THE recruiter and makes the final decision. We don't have talent on the pitching side. And I'll have to accept Lemonis is coming back, which I can get, but I don't think he knows what the hell he's doing. I believe this is too big for him. We'll see. I just don't think he knows how to run a program like this. Too much a players coach and not willing to make tough decisions like firing a pitching coach until it's too late.
I'm not screaming fire the man like I was Foxy. But another poor year and he's done. Our hitting has sucked in SEC play by the way. We were 13th in hitting before yesterday. That's 17ing awful.

[ArrowDawg]

It makes a lot of sense to bring him back if you take everything into consideration with our situation.

Anything less than hosting a regional next year should result in his firing. After two years in a row like this, I'm done.

[PMDawg]

Anything less than hosting a regional next year should result in his firing. After two years in a row like this, I'm done.

I'm with Sandjunky. It's pointless to bring him back at this point. He enters the season on the hot seat. If he loses a midweek game, or a weekend series to a G5 team (or below average P5 team), people will be calling for his head. He almost has to come in and have a national seed type season to quiet the calls for his firing. It's a near impossible uphill climb for him next year, and the most likely of all results is that he gets fired anyway. It would have been ok to take a step back for a couple of seasons (make Hoover, get to a regional as a 2 or 3 seed), but this isn't a step back. He destroyed the program's progress over the last decade+ in 2 short seasons. We're near all time lows for the program just 2 years removed from a national championship. That's insane.

I understand what OP is saying, and they are probably right. They are definitely right in that my opinion doesn't matter. But this clown needs to go. It won't get better. Do we have a pretty good roster right now that could be greatly improved with better pitching? Yes, definitely. But guess what, this isn't the roster we'll have next year. I bet we get some transfers out that really hurt. Our recruiting class is probably about to see some changes for the worse if we keep our Lemon. This offseason is very important, no matter what we decide coaching wise.

[msudawg1200]

What type of decent pitching coach can he actually coax into coming here? I mean a good up and comer ain't coming into a lame duck situation.

[Coach34]

He makes a regional in 2024 and he will retain his job. We have been a 2 seed many times and gone on to make a Super

[Coach34]

What type of decent pitching coach can he actually coax into coming here? I mean a good up and comer ain't coming into a lame duck situation.

Well, the idea is that he's not a lame duck and next season we should be improved

[gtowndawg]

Hoping this means we might put more resources ($$$$) into football and basketball. Saving on a buyout I mean.

[sandjunky]

Well, the idea is that he's not a lame duck and next season we should be improved

So you?re saying State shouldn?t expect to be an elite program - got it

State and its fans are good with mediocrity

The ole poor ol?Mississippi State mindset needs to die and die fast (not saying you have this attitude)

[TrapGame]

This gives me Croom flashbacks.

[sandjunky]

This gives me Croom flashbacks.

I didn?t go there simply due to NC

But the past two years have been crxxmtastic

He couldn?t coach or recruit

[Coach34]

So you?re saying State shouldn?t expect to be an elite program - got it

State and its fans are good with mediocrity

The ole poor ol?Mississippi State mindset needs to die and die fast (not saying you have this attitude)

Well, the guy with the only NC in our history will probably get 1 more season to see if he can get us back into the NCAA Tourney and win games. Nobody is accepting mediocrity. I've always said the expectation every season for our baseball program is to make a Super. That hasnt changed.

[R2Dawg]

Anything less than hosting a regional next year should result in his firing. After two years in a row like this, I'm done.

Making a regional should be the floor for us every year. That is like making a bowl in football. Really should be in contention for hosting at least every year too.

Not making Hoover is like 1-11 in football. Not getting in a regional as a 4 seed is like 4-8. For a baseball program like ours, it ain't much to ask for a regional every year. The past two years are beyond acceptable regardless injuries. Programs like us should just throw another talented guy out there and make a regional.

[R2Dawg]

Well, the guy with the only NC in our history will probably get 1 more season to see if he can get us back into the NCAA Tourney and win games. Nobody is accepting mediocrity. I've always said the expectation every season for our baseball program is to make a Super. That hasnt changed.

Yep the NC bought whoever got it a lot of coaching capital. Lemo just used all his up real quick.

Bianco now using his up. His leash might be shorter ironically because they were about to fire him last year till he won it.

[KOdawg1]

Actually a lot of people are, sadly.

No they aren't. If you ask our fanbase, 99.99% will tell you making Hoover isn't the standard.

[Bothrops]

I'm fine with it. Pitching direction will be paramount. I also think we play well this weekend.

[TrapGame]

Making a regional should be the floor for us every year. That is like making a bowl in football. Really should be in contention for hosting at least every year too.

Not making Hoover is like 1-11 in football. Not getting in a regional as a 4 seed is like 4-8. For a baseball program like ours, it ain't much to ask for a regional every year. The past two years are beyond acceptable regardless injuries. Programs like us should just throw another talented guy out there and make a regional.

Yep. How many top #10 football programs hold on to head coaches with back to back 3-9 seasons?

[BuckyIsAB****]

That would definitely be the Mississippi State thing to do. Sounds like Selmon is fitting in already.

Correct. If he doesnt make the move it better not be because he wants to get comfortable first. A blind man can see what needs to be done

[BuckyIsAB****]

It makes a lot of sense to bring him back if you take everything into consideration with our situation.

I 100 percent disagree

[BuckyIsAB****]

If Missouri and or Georgia win 1 game next weekend, State is eliminated from SEC tourney even if State sweeps A & M. No way he should be back next year. Lemonis is the Author, Editor, and Publisher of the Horror Story. I expect significant Portal entries by key players at end of season whether he is back or not. But we need new blood at the top.

This is the bottom line. All year long the point was make Hoover. You dont make Hoover you gotta go

[BuckyIsAB****]

No one is just OK with going to Hoover.

To me this is like when Dan went 6-7 with an Egg Bowl win and Peter Sirmon as our DC. We all knew that Dan had some success with us and we all knew that Sirmon was obviously THE problem. We all knew that Dan could turn it around with a better DC- which he did in 2017.

I feel pretty confident that Lemonis will turn it around with a new PC.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this team has talent to where it can be turned around pretty quickly I think.

It?s not like that at all. The past 2 seasons are equivalent to 3-9.

[BuckyIsAB****]

He makes a regional in 2024 and he will retain his job. We have been a 2 seed many times and gone on to make a Super

He is done. It would be something that has never be done to come back from this. Name a head coach that fired an asst to save his ass that made it back? If he comes back I will have little faith in our admins. Keenum hates OM so much that helps his case, and I get that. But OM is terrible and we are just as bad. With no legit excuses as to why

[Quaoarsking]

If we retain Lemonis, the baseline to keep his job for 2025 should be either hosting in 2024, or at least being in the hosting conversation late.

Sneaking into a Regional is OK on occasion at MSU, but not as the best of a 3-year stretch. It should be, like, the worst in a 5-year stretch or so.

[Coach34]

Name a head coach that fired an asst to save his ass that made it back?

Nick Mingione of Kentucky

7th in the East in 2019- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2021- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2022- No NCAA Tourney

2023? Listed as a national seed (8th in the country) currently heading in the last SEC weekend

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Nick Mingione of Kentucky

7th in the East in 2019- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2021- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2022- No NCAA Tourney

2023? Listed as a national seed (8th in the country) currently heading in the last SEC weekend

Kentucky is currently #1 in the country in RPI.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I can live with bringing Lemonis back if he?s committed.

[Dawgface]

I can live with bringing back if he?s committed.
Let me ask coach Lem if he is committed. He says YES! Buy your tickets now! ***

[DownwardDawg]

Actually a lot of people are, sadly.

I don't know of a single one.

[Quaoarsking]

I don't know of a single one.

There are numerous people on this board and others who have said they think Lemonis should be fired if we miss Hoover but can stay if we make it, as if that's the baseline (top 12 in a 14-team league) he has to meet to keep his job.

12th out of 14 isn't good enough in football, much less a sport where we care the most out of any fanbase in the country and really only 4 of the 14 teams in the conference do.

[Coach34]

There are numerous people on this board and others who have said they think Lemonis should be fired if we miss Hoover but can stay if we make it, as if that's the baseline (top 12 in a 14-team league) he has to meet to keep his job.

12th out of 14 isn't good enough in football, much less a sport where we care the most out of any fanbase in the country and really only 4 of the 14 teams in the conference do.

Heres' the thing:

3-9 in football and you are nowhere near being a competent team. You just suck basically.

As bad as we have been this year- we are 44th right now in RPI. We are the 44th best team in the country ratings-wise. That would get us in the NCAA Tourney in basketball. That would get us in a very good bowl in football. But in baseball- different world. In most other baseball conferences- we are the 1 seed. So judging is different

[Quaoarsking]

Heres' the thing:

3-9 in football and you are nowhere near being a competent team. You just suck basically.

As bad as we have been this year- we are 44th right now in RPI. We are the 44th best team in the country ratings-wise. That would get us in the NCAA Tourney in basketball. That would get us in a very good bowl in football. But in baseball- different world. In most other baseball conferences- we are the 1 seed. So judging is different

The 13th best SEC football team is probably the around 44th best team in the country, so I think it is comparable.

[Todd4State]

There are numerous people on this board and others who have said they think Lemonis should be fired if we miss Hoover but can stay if we make it, as if that's the baseline (top 12 in a 14-team league) he has to meet to keep his job.

12th out of 14 isn't good enough in football, much less a sport where we care the most out of any fanbase in the country and really only 4 of the 14 teams in the conference do.

I think some of our fans are confusing realistic expectations for THIS season based on how the season played out vs our actual program standard.

Those are two very different things.

[Todd4State]

I 100 percent disagree

We could fire him now- but it would likely cause a lot more long term harm than good.

It's simply too expensive and too risky at this point to fire him. Because of that it doesn't make sense.

[Todd4State]

Making a regional should be the floor for us every year. That is like making a bowl in football. Really should be in contention for hosting at least every year too.

Not making Hoover is like 1-11 in football. Not getting in a regional as a 4 seed is like 4-8. For a baseball program like ours, it ain't much to ask for a regional every year. The past two years are beyond acceptable regardless injuries. Programs like us should just throw another talented guy out there and make a regional.

For me it's a Super Regional. As a SEC team we have a pretty good chance of winning a regional. Especially at home. I think the last regional game we lost was 2013 to Central Arkansas. Odds are if you go to a regional you're going to be up against at least two mid majors. As bad as we may be we have won the vast majority of our OOC games. And our schedule isn't exactly a cake walk. We've beaten Arizona State, USM, Louisiana, among others.

Arrow- hosting has politics attached to it so I'm not as focused on that since we have less control over it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Nick Mingione of Kentucky

7th in the East in 2019- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2021- No NCAA Tourney
6th in the East in 2022- No NCAA Tourney

2023? Listed as a national seed (8th in the country) currently heading in the last SEC weekend

When did he fire his pitching coach mid season

[BuckyIsAB****]

Heres' the thing:

3-9 in football and you are nowhere near being a competent team. You just suck basically.

As bad as we have been this year- we are 44th right now in RPI. We are the 44th best team in the country ratings-wise. That would get us in the NCAA Tourney in basketball. That would get us in a very good bowl in football. But in baseball- different world. In most other baseball conferences- we are the 1 seed. So judging is different

Getting run ruled more than anyone in program history and holding both of the schools longest SEC losing streaks is pretty incompetent

[basedog]

We could fire him now- but it would likely cause a lot more long term harm than good.

It's simply too expensive and too risky at this point to fire him. Because of that it doesn't make sense.

I disagree also, he may be back back we got some serious problems. Our pitching has to be completely rebuilt, our defense has been awful, our hitting as far as average or on base % is inconsistent. We strive on the long ball which is good. I'm kinda shocked at your take on Lemonis. I hope IF he is back he gets us back to what Msu baseball was, it sure is hell ain't what I've seen and I'm not sure he can maintain the level our history has been.

[basedog]

Getting run ruled more than anyone in program history and holding both of the schools longest SEC losing streaks is pretty incompetent

44th in RPI means nothing when you are losing as much as we have. I'm beginning to think 34 is kin to Lemonis** LOL

[Cooterpoot]

The man is in over his head. This team (SEC PLAY) is:

10th in hitting
12th in runs
14th in pitching
2nd in HR given up
14th in fielding

All with his recruits. And he had to bring back Hancock because we couldn't sign a catcher.
The guy sat on his big ole bucket ass and watched the wheels fall off at a time we should've been exploding to new heights with a new stadium and a Natty. His recruiting went off the rails for two full years.
We're going to reward him.

[Dawgface]

The man is in over his head. This team (SEC PLAY) is:

10th in hitting
12th in runs
14th in pitching
2nd in HR given up
14th in fielding

All with his recruits. And he had to bring back Hancock because we couldn't sign a catcher.
The guy sat on his big ole bucket ass and watched the wheels fall off at a time we should've been exploding to new heights with a new stadium and a Natty. His recruiting went off the rails for two full years.
We're going to reward him.
Seems insane to me too. I guess it depends on what the cigar boys want to do.

[Coach34]

When did he fire his pitching coach mid season

After finishing 7th in the East in 2019- he fired both assistants...now he is a top 8 national seed. You asked. I answered

[calidawg]

No one is just OK with going to Hoover.

To me this is like when Dan went 6-7 with an Egg Bowl win and Peter Sirmon as our DC. We all knew that Dan had some success with us and we all knew that Sirmon was obviously THE problem. We all knew that Dan could turn it around with a better DC- which he did in 2017.

I feel pretty confident that Lemonis will turn it around with a new PC.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this team has talent to where it can be turned around pretty quickly I think.

How do you explain the poor fielding then?

[calidawg]

Actually a lot of people are, sadly.

Literally no one is.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

In the job world, If someone completely bombed at a job most of the year but did good work one week toward the end of the year, that would not make up for MOST of the year doing terrible and most likely one would be fired. In this case, if we were losing games 3-2, 6-5, 8-6 for most of our losses, it would still be bad but there would at least be some glimmer of "we are close". But getting run ruled at this level so many times is not acceptable AT ALL. It's embarrassing and he needs to go.

[basedog]

The man is in over his head. This team (SEC PLAY) is:

10th in hitting
12th in runs
14th in pitching
2nd in HR given up
14th in fielding

All with his recruits. And he had to bring back Hancock because we couldn't sign a catcher.
The guy sat on his big ole bucket ass and watched the wheels fall off at a time we should've been exploding to new heights with a new stadium and a Natty. His recruiting went off the rails for two full years.
We're going to reward him.

Thank goodness for the long ball. The stats tell the true story why we are losing so much.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

I can live with bringing Lemonis back if he?s committed.

not good enough for me. What's he going to say now.."I'm not committed" When the wagon is burning, it's nearly impossible to recover, no matter what you say and how committed you are.

[BuckyIsAB****]

After finishing 7th in the East in 2019- he fired both assistants...now he is a top 8 national seed. You asked. I answered

That was not mid season. Lemonis aint it. He has been given more than enough time with little to no excuses to be this bad. None.

[Coach34]

That was not mid season. Lemonis aint it. He has been given more than enough time with little to no excuses to be this bad. None.

Firing is firing. You are splitting hairs at this point.

Do I think Lemon is the long range guy? No
Do I think he deserves one more to prove himself? Yes

Baseball is different from football in recruiting and other ways. I have questioned this guy's moves since he got here. But he won our only Natty. And that buys cred. A few pitching injuries is the equivalent of losing your starting QB. That was our 2022. We had a few more this season that really hurt. He probably deserves 1 more season. We have a Top 5 recruiting class, have some quality players returning, and should pull in some portal guys.

[Coach34]

. He has been given more than enough time with little to no excuses to be this bad.

We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at it

[BuckyIsAB****]

We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at it

GTFO. Just no.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Same folks that bashed Leach are jumping over mine fields to defend Lemonis after beating LSU. Lemonis and staff have earned the dismissal. Period. A week ago he was Lemonizik

[schddog72]

I can. This is the gоddamn SEC and if he can't handle the duties of the job, he needs to turn in his resignation immediately.

I get your point, and I believe it would have been made just as forcefully without the GD part.

[schddog72]

It makes a lot of sense to bring him back if you take everything into consideration with our situation.

It makes NOOOOOOO sense to bring him back!! As has been mentioned, we're paying top-level pay for rock bottom results, for two straight years no less. In what universe does that justify him getting to keep his job with practically the same results guaranteed next year. And FWIW, he's not going to be able to bring in a top-shelf pitching coach on a one-year deal as a lame duck dead man walking.

[schddog72]

Firing is firing. You are splitting hairs at this point.

Do I think Lemon is the long range guy? No
Do I think he deserves one more to prove himself? Yes

Baseball is different from football in recruiting and other ways. I have questioned this guy's moves since he got here. But he won our only Natty. And that buys cred. A few pitching injuries is the equivalent of losing your starting QB. That was our 2022. We had a few more this season that really hurt. He probably deserves 1 more season. We have a Top 5 recruiting class, have some quality players returning, and should pull in some portal guys.

He only "won" our natty because his name was listed as Head Coach. The natty was won by players who he did not recruit and really didn't need his input or coaching.

[Todd4State]

How do you explain the poor fielding then?

Our defense has improved over the course of the year outside of a few games. We made like three errors this weekend. That's acceptable.

It's mostly been about Forsythe and Alford struggling. He has sat both of them at times because of it.

[Todd4State]

It makes NOOOOOOO sense to bring him back!! As has been mentioned, we're paying top-level pay for rock bottom results, for two straight years no less. In what universe does that justify him getting to keep his job with practically the same results guaranteed next year. And FWIW, he's not going to be able to bring in a top-shelf pitching coach on a one-year deal as a lame duck dead man walking.

And how do you know the same results are guaranteed next year? This is just bitching to bitch. You have no clue who we are going to bring in as a pitching coach.

I mean, sure we could fire him now and pay a massive buyout which would limit what we could pay the next coach. Which you would then bitch about when we end up with some unproven assistant, a G5 up and comer, or a guy with a similar resume to Lemonis when we hired him. And at the same time run a massive risk of destroying our future recruiting classes which have some really talented players in them which I have no doubt will have seasons like we're accustomed to when they get to school. It would also greatly affect our NIL in not just baseball but other sports.

Or we could just hire a pitching coach. Worst case scenario according to you we miss the SEC Tournament again then have to fire Lemonis then. But if that happens next year we will have more money to spend to get a better coach and potentially throw a ton of money at a Vitello or a Wasikowski. May not get them- but it opens up our pool. Not to mention the whole firing a coach two years after a NC thing is not a good look whether our fans want to admit it or not. Doing it this way also insures we add more talent through recruiting.

So yes, bringing Lemonis back is very logical to anyone who understands our situation and the baseball industry. Which I believe our people with the power to make important baseball decisions have the ability to do.

[Todd4State]

He only "won" our natty because his name was listed as Head Coach. The natty was won by players who he did not recruit and really didn't need his input or coaching.

Who was it that decided to bench Landon Jordan and stabilized our defense? Who decided to put in Brayland Skinner against Texas as a pinch runner and pinch hit Tanner Leggett? Who put Luke Hancock at first base- a position he had never really played before which made us better offensively? Who set up our rotation in 2021 so that we had Bednar starting the final game in the CWS?

Foxhall greatly hamstrung Lemonis. This past weekend was a good example. Foxhall probably doesn't move Cade back, he would have left KC Hunt and Colby Holcombe in too long, Tyler Davis wouldn't have been a factor. Guess who did make those decisions? On top of intentionally walking two of LSU's top hitters which was gutsy as well- and that worked too.

[Quaoarsking]

If you really think that all it will take is a new pitching coach and Lemonis can have us back in the hosting conversation, then yes, it makes sense to keep him. I suspect that's wishful thinking, but I'll be happy to be wrong a year from now.

[Coach34]

He only "won" our natty because his name was listed as Head Coach. The natty was won by players who he did not recruit and really didn't need his input or coaching.

In some ways you are correct. But he did recruit Bednar and he was reason #1 we won the thing.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at it

You are an idiot. He has made us the laughing stock of the SEC and we are supposed to be an elite baseball program. He had a GOLDEN opportunity to build on that and solidify our program and he shat the bed.

[sandjunky]

He has made us the laughing stock of the SEC and we are supposed to be an elite baseball program. He had a GOLDEN opportunity to build on that and solidify our program and he shat the bed.

Yes he did that

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I can't believe this thread lol

We go from universal agreement Lemonis needs to go, nicknames comparing him to Chizik etc to defending him and wanting him to return, all because we took 2/3 from a team that just lost a series to Auburn? What?

We're worst in the conference in defense, yet Todd is defending Lemonis saying "well we're not as bad as we were". Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! WHY DID LEMO NOT HAVE THE D READY TO GO AT THE START OF THE YEAR??

We're one of the worst teams in the conference yet the LSU series proves something? Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! ONE SEC SERIES DOES NOT UNDO THE FACT WERE MISSING HOOVER

Kentucky missed the NCAA tournament for years but is now really good, therefore we shouldn't fire a coach who missed Hoover back to back? Newsflash: THIS LOGIC WOULD PREVENT ANY COACH FROM BEING FIRED IN ANY SPORT EVER INCLUDING MOORHEAD

The mental gymnastics people here are going through to defend the decision to keep Lemo is pathetic. Do better. Just admit "Boosters don't want to pay for it" or "Selmon has no balls" or whateverthe case is. don't come here with this weak ass logic pretending keeping Lemo is actually going to work out for us next year. We all know he's in over his head.

[Dawgface]

We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at it

Lol. You can't be serious.

[Quaoarsking]

When I said that half of our fanbase was fine with just making Hoover, I was actually too optimistic. Half our fanbase doesn't even want to make a change after 2 consecutive years of missing Hoover. The entire state of Mississippi has an engrained inferiority complex, and it bleeds over into accepting sports mediocrity.

[CaptainObvious]

We don't have the pitchers. Lemonis signs off on recruiting. He's THE recruiter and makes the final decision. We don't have talent on the pitching side. And I'll have to accept Lemonis is coming back, which I can get, but I don't think he knows what the hell he's doing. I believe this is too big for him. We'll see. I just don't think he knows how to run a program like this. Too much a players coach and not willing to make tough decisions like firing a pitching coach until it's too late.
I'm not screaming fire the man like I was Foxy. But another poor year and he's done. Our hitting has sucked in SEC play by the way. We were 13th in hitting before yesterday. That's 17ing awful.

This is where I don?t understand why people say we have the talent for Lemonis to turn this thing around.
But the statistics show that MSU talent is 13th in the League. Meaning they ain?t SEC level talent. We have to get better across the board and do it quickly. Not give away another season just to be nice to the guy who set on a bucket all the way to a NC.

[CaptainObvious]

Lol. You can't be serious.

Excuse me: but you have to type it like John McEnroe said it when a umpire ruled a ball out!

You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!!

[Cowbell]

He only "won" our natty because his name was listed as Head Coach. The natty was won by players who he did not recruit and really didn't need his input or coaching.

This is a ridiculous take

[Captain Falcon]

Personally, I just do not have a strong opinion on it one way or another. I get both sides of the coin. There is validity in being beyond done with him, also validity in recognizing how good he was in 2019 and 2021 (it was more than just the players, for the hundredth time, he made a lot of smart moves on the fly) and being willing to give him one last chance to return to that higher standard.

Regardless of how any of us feel, the expectation right now is that he will be back. Kick and scream all you want but it is not going to change a whole lot.

[Todd4State]

I can't believe this thread lol

We go from universal agreement Lemonis needs to go, nicknames comparing him to Chizik etc to defending him and wanting him to return, all because we took 2/3 from a team that just lost a series to Auburn? What?

We're worst in the conference in defense, yet Todd is defending Lemonis saying "well we're not as bad as we were". Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! WHY DID LEMO NOT HAVE THE D READY TO GO AT THE START OF THE YEAR??

We're one of the worst teams in the conference yet the LSU series proves something? Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! ONE SEC SERIES DOES NOT UNDO THE FACT WERE MISSING HOOVER

Kentucky missed the NCAA tournament for years but is now really good, therefore we shouldn't fire a coach who missed Hoover back to back? Newsflash: THIS LOGIC WOULD PREVENT ANY COACH FROM BEING FIRED IN ANY SPORT EVER INCLUDING MOORHEAD

The mental gymnastics people here are going through to defend the decision to keep Lemo is pathetic. Do better. Just admit "Boosters don't want to pay for it" or "Selmon has no balls" or whateverthe case is. don't come here with this weak ass logic pretending keeping Lemo is actually going to work out for us next year. We all know he's in over his head.

No one is saying he is coming back because of the LSU series. A lot of people were saying he was coming back after the Arkansas series where we looked awful. Actually a lot of people have been saying he is coming back the whole year.

Why did we not have the defense ready to go? I guess he figured his shortstop who has been known for his defense would be himself and he figured that Alford would be better. My point is he didn't just sit there and do nothing. He made changes. We have gotten a lot better overall. Same thing happened in 2021. I don't care how the defense looked against VMI. I care how it looks at the end of the year.

Not only that- you shouldn't judge a team on the most subjective baseball stat ever in fielding percentage.

You want me to tell you what the case is? How about our major baseball boosters don't want to tank our baseball program because people like you are pissed off that we had a bad season because we had a shitty pitching coach. Is that clear enough for you? Because I've spelled this out several times on multiple boards and some of our fans are either baseball ignorant or they just like to bitch to bitch. Or both.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

No one is saying he is coming back because of the LSU series. A lot of people were saying he was coming back after the Arkansas series where we looked awful. Actually a lot of people have been saying he is coming back the whole year.

Why did we not have the defense ready to go? I guess he figured his shortstop who has been known for his defense would be himself and he figured that Alford would be better. My point is he didn't just sit there and do nothing. He made changes. We have gotten a lot better overall. Same thing happened in 2021. I don't care how the defense looked against VMI. I care how it looks at the end of the year.

Not only that- you shouldn't judge a team on the most subjective baseball stat ever in fielding percentage.

You want me to tell you what the case is? How about our major baseball boosters don't want to tank our baseball program because people like you are pissed off that we had a bad season because we had a shitty pitching coach. Is that clear enough for you? Because I've spelled this out several times on multiple boards and some of our fans are either baseball ignorant or they just like to bitch to bitch. Or both.

"Nobody is saying he's coming back because of the LSU series"

Maybe I should speak more clearly: we have people defending Lemonis and saying bringing him back is best for the program based on the LSU series. Youre one of them- Please link me to your comments from a week or 2 ago saying Lemonis isn't responsible for the defense? You only started post LSU and C34 has only started defending Lemonis this week.

You seek to blame all of our defense on Alford and Forsythe. That's not true and you know it- we've seen collisions in the outfield, missed cutoff men, misplaced bunts, have the moved passed balls in the conference because we went into the season without a SEC catcher, have to play Hancock at 1B at times because Hines glove isn't ready, etc.

And you want to call FIELDING PERCENTAGE "subjective"?? Oh come on man, this is pathetic. Yes individual plays are up to the score keeper. Yes home cooking happens on hits vs errors. But that's equal across every team and no, an entire seasons worth of data + our own eyes aren't "subjective" enough to be worst in the conference and fine with it lol

"Our major baseball boosters don't want to tank the program"

1) yeah it would suck if the program tanked- we might even start missing Hoover!

2) boosters not believing we can get a good coach is a fine excuse to have Leminis back. But it's very different from actually defending Lemonis or saying this back to back crapshows aren't his fault. That's all I'm asking for- honesty. You can say "we're stuck with this guy another year" without convincing me the piss is rain.

"We had a bad season because of a shitty pitching coach"

1) again you downplay the situation by saying "a" bad season. It's actually back to back missing Hoover seasons.

2) you're also downplaying the teams flaws by blaming just pitching. Again, defense is league worst. I've seen the team outright quit caring (vs Tennessee for example). Hitting is OK but is actually underperforming our recruiting rankings. The team sucked last year but somehow it didn't light a fire under them. Lemonis has had some very odd pinch hits or failures to pinch hit. We suck at fundamentals like sliding. We've got locker room issues like Alford and fights in the dugout.

3) Lemonis hired Fox. Lemonis could have fired him after last year. Lemonis signs off on every recruit Fox picks. Lemonis is the HC and is responsible for the total team. No, I don't trust Lemonis to get the pitching fixed because he clearly doesn't know what he's looking at there.

[Pancho]

I just wonder when Lemo all of a sudden got his new evaluating tools****. If he actually doesn't change his approach to player assessments then I feel as if the so called bad season thing will become very normal as long as he is allowed to be the HC.

[Dawgface]

I just wonder when Lemo all of a sudden got his new evaluating tools****. If he actually doesn't change his approach to player assessments then I feel as if the so called bad season thing will become very normal as long as he is allowed to be the HC.

Surely there's some free online software that will do the job. Can't be any worse than what we have now.

[Randolph Dupree]

Anything short of parting ways with Lemonis this year is kicking the can down the road another year. People can make all the excuses they want but unless he has some kind of massive reinvention of how he approaches everything from evaluation to off-season practice I don't know how any of this changes. For people making the pitching coach argument, we had a year (2016ish but I can't remember) when we barely even had a pitching staff and we still made a regional. We're so jacked up right now that we had a team that literally had to convert a 1B to a pitcher and use its CF as a Sunday guy because we literally didn't have enough arms, yet we were still better than we are this year. Let that sink in.

Fox was clearly not doing his job and it likely didn't just start at the beginning of the season so, yeah, that's on Lemonis. Dude should've done something about it sooner and maybe we've got 3 or 4 more wins and we aren't having this conversation.

Also, how many times has Lemonis answered questions with "I don't know...I don't know how to fix it?" I've heard that multiple times and it is accompanied by a bewildered hopeless look. Our head coach in our most prized sport literally sat in front of a camera and microphone and said 'I dunno'. How is that defensible?

So let's let a weekend where we beat a very flawed LSU team effect our decision.

Dude needs to go.

ETA: didn't mean for that to turn into a rant.

[Coach34]

I just wonder when Lemo all of a sudden got his new evaluating tools****. If he actually doesn't change his approach to player assessments then I feel as if the so called bad season thing will become very normal as long as he is allowed to be the HC.

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason

[Extendedcab]

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason

So Coach, since we have such a highly ranked class the last 2 years, why don't we have better results? We salivate at other teams that have a top 10 recruiting class and wish MSU could do that. Well, we did but the production has not been evident or consistent. doesn't this lack of production fall back to the coach? If it does fall on the HC, then shouldn't he be held accountable?

[Cooterpoot]

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason

We ran off the 2020 and 2021 classes for the most part. Two dead years. Also, those baseball recruiting rankings are boo boo. They're about as real as titties on a Housewives show.

[R2Dawg]

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason

So how do we do this with this tiny NIL? Everyone says we can't get talent without big NIL

Agree on talent evaluation or talent development hasn't been good.

[R2Dawg]

We ran off the 2020 and 2021 classes for the most part. Two dead years. Also, those baseball recruiting rankings are boo boo. They're about as real as titties on a Housewives show.

Don't disagree with this. I've said for decades, the recruiting rankings are so so in every sport to a degree. Sure the top 50 players are hard to miss on but even them we have missed on.

The fanatics perspective is mental. One minute we such in recruiting because of low ranking. Next minute we can't get recruits because of NIL. Next it is rankings are BS when we do have a high ranking. Next it is we got a suck coach even though we pay them top NCAA money. Next we can't get a good coach because we want pay them.

Anyone see a pattern here?

[sandjunky]

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason
You know how you raise your pg grade? Spend more money doing pg events - I?ve watched it first hand

[Goldendawg]

Surely there's some free online software that will do the job. Can't be any worse than what we have now.

Would an AI robot HC be cheaper?****

[Coach34]

So Coach, since we have such a highly ranked class the last 2 years, why don't we have better results? We salivate at other teams that have a top 10 recruiting class and wish MSU could do that. Well, we did but the production has not been evident or consistent. doesn't this lack of production fall back to the coach? If it does fall on the HC, then shouldn't he be held accountable?

2020 and 2021 were a complete miss. Our freshman class this year is really good. We finally have recruited an SEC quality SS to come in this Fall. Stacking classes and getting some good pieces from the portal is what it takes

[BuckyIsAB****]

No one is saying he is coming back because of the LSU series. A lot of people were saying he was coming back after the Arkansas series where we looked awful. Actually a lot of people have been saying he is coming back the whole year.

Why did we not have the defense ready to go? I guess he figured his shortstop who has been known for his defense would be himself and he figured that Alford would be better. My point is he didn't just sit there and do nothing. He made changes. We have gotten a lot better overall. Same thing happened in 2021. I don't care how the defense looked against VMI. I care how it looks at the end of the year.

Not only that- you shouldn't judge a team on the most subjective baseball stat ever in fielding percentage.

You want me to tell you what the case is? How about our major baseball boosters don't want to tank our baseball program because people like you are pissed off that we had a bad season because we had a shitty pitching coach. Is that clear enough for you? Because I've spelled this out several times on multiple boards and some of our fans are either baseball ignorant or they just like to bitch to bitch. Or both.

The program is tanked. This staff tanked it. There are no excuses for this level of tank with what we have

[BuckyIsAB****]

2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting class
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG

The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason

How many runs are recruiting rankings worth

[Pancho]

first thing he needs and has failed to evaluate is pitchers with a sub 5.00 ERA capability

[Dawgface]

The program is tanked. This staff tanked it. There are no excuses for this level of tank with what we have

Yep. Amazing the few here supporting him.

[Pancho]

How many runs are recruiting rankings worth

either lemo knew zilch about the arms foxhall wanted or he's totally responsible for the bad evals all on his own. He is the CEO of the whole operation?

[Offshore Dawg]

So how do we do this with this tiny NIL? Everyone says we can't get talent without big NIL

Agree on talent evaluation or talent development hasn't been good.

SEC baseball is looking like SEC football for State. because of NIL.