The dugout dust-up....

[Leroy Jenkins]

I'm not gonna clutch my pearls and say teammates shouldn't fight. It happens all the time and it's no big deal. Boys will be boys. The issue I have is it's not a good look after you just got your $hit pushed in. If you have all that fire and energy, how about trying to use it to to win some games. Regulate things out of sight. JMO.

[msstate7]

Who fought?

[MaroonFlounder]

Slate is a problem. And he?s not good enough to continue running him out there.

But he will be in the lineup again. He whiffed on the grounder last night, but his defense overall has improved, and he runs into one at the plate that occasionally leaves the yard. So Lem deals with it. At this point, what does it matter? The team is a dumpster fire.

[Coach34]

Seems like Alford is liked about as much as a transdude at Bud Light headquarters

[maroonmania]

The whole program is just a nightmare at this point. Hold onto to that NC memorabilia. We won't be getting another one anytime soon.

[Saltydog]

He and Hines had something similar at Friso earlier in the year from what I understand. All of this is problematic and signs of a program that's on life support. When you get to this point you just gotta pull the plug and start all over.

[Coach34]

Alford not in the line-up today

[was21]

State loses today and we'll be tied with Arkansas all time matchups. Right now we have a one game lead.

[Quaoarsking]

State loses today and we'll be tied with Arkansas all time matchups. Right now we have a one game lead.

We'll still be up 1-0 in national titles though :cool:

[Offshore Dawg]

The whole program is just a nightmare at this point. Hold onto to that NC memorabilia. We won't be getting another one anytime soon.

Told my New Orleans wife the same thing after the Saints won the Super Bowl.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

With this team, both players lost the fight.

[CaptainObvious]

Told my New Orleans wife the same thing after the Saints won the Super Bowl.

Well, to be fair, Hell Froze Over after the Saints won, so??.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

The whole program is just a nightmare at this point. Hold onto to that NC memorabilia. We won't be getting another one anytime soon.

Might not ever get another one if we're being honest. Took us long enough to get the first one, and we let all that momentum disappear.

[Todd4State]

My biggest issue is that can't happen in the dugout. Go in the clubhouse and beat each others brains out.

Shows lack of respect for your teammates and reflects really poorly on Lemonis IMO.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

Sounds like we're approaching Stansbury levels of loss of control.

[Homedawg]

My biggest issue is that can't happen in the dugout. Go in the clubhouse and beat each others brains out.

Shows lack of respect for your teammates and reflects really poorly on Lemonis IMO.

Happens all the time. Even on great teams. At least words being passed.

[Homedawg]

Sounds like we're approaching Stansbury levels of loss of control.

Let's not go crazy spinning stuff bc we suck.

[SPMT]

Might not ever get another one if we're being honest. Took us long enough to get the first one, and we let all that momentum disappear.

We will win another one. Next three years. We are college baseball.

Lemonis will not be the coach.

[R2Dawg]

He and Hines had something similar at Friso earlier in the year from what I understand. All of this is problematic and signs of a program that's on life support. When you get to this point you just gotta pull the plug and start all over.

Yep this is a sign that we got some big culture/leadership issues. From Stans to Moorhead with same things on the team. This don't happen on championship type teams. We need to start over from the ground up. I hate it but Lemo needs to go. I don't think he can recover from this mess at this point.

[Cowbell]

Happens all the time. Even on great teams. At least words being passed.

Yeah if some of the boys are gonna grow stones, it's going to happen

[EdwardDrayton]

Sounds like we're approaching Stansbury levels of loss of control.

Alabama maybe. But not us.

[SailingDawg]

Seems like Alford is liked about as much as a transdude at Bud Light headquarters

Can?t let go of the homophobia, can you? How many balls have you inspected behind closed doors in your coaching career?

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

Alabama maybe. But not us.

Things have gotten a bit loose over in ttown

[sandjunky]

Hell I?ve heard Lemonis name come up for the AL job

[SpaceBully]

Slate is a problem. And he?s not good enough to continue running him out there.

But he will be in the lineup again. He whiffed on the grounder last night, but his defense overall has improved, and he runs into one at the plate that occasionally leaves the yard. So Lem deals with it. At this point, what does it matter? The team is a dumpster fire.

I have a very good view of the dugout, but didn't see anything. I have heard a rumor or two that Slate will be hitting the portal along with some of his better teamates. And one of the rumors is him going back to Butch which was his original commitment.

[Pancho]

And will he return here if Butch is hired as HC @ MSU?

[confucius say]

I didn't see any dust up. I also have not heard from anybody who saw it or seen any video.

[Cowbell]

I didn't see any dust up. I also have not heard from anybody who saw it or seen any video.
I heard it was Hines, DJ, and Mershon telling some of the older guys that it was their team now and they wanted to finish on a good note. Some older guys took issue and were quickly told to back it up with their play.

[SPMT]

I heard it was Hines, DJ, and Mershon telling some of the older guys that it was their team now and they wanted to finish on a good note. Some older guys took issue and were quickly told to back it up with their play.

Hope that?s true. Like that swag.

[No BS Dawg]

If there was any swinging, I?m sure they were all misses. No sarcastrics on purpose.

[CaptainObvious]

If there was any swinging, I?m sure they were all misses. No sarcastrics on purpose.

Well now to be fair, they would have had to take the first two down the middle before swinging wildly at air.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Hope that?s true. Like that swag.

Did Hancock immediately stand up and show them the little "c" on his uniform? ***

[Todd4State]

Happens all the time. Even on great teams. At least words being passed.

I know. Pretty much every team. Just needs to happen in the clubhouse and not the dugout.

[Goldendawg]

Did Hancock immediately stand up and show them the little "c" on his uniform? ***

He's had a rough season hitting in SEC play, .211, 1 for 10 for the Arkansas series.

[SpaceBully]

And will he return here if Butch is hired as HC @ MSU?

No, he would stay at Auburn. I know I would stay if it were me.

[Todd4State]

No, he would stay at Auburn. I know I would stay if it were me.

I don't want Butch anyway.

[Pancho]

Butch only wins and his players show a gritty, dirtbag persona that is fun to watch. Other than that, he just wins and goes to Omaha fairly regular.

[BeardoMSU]

I don't want Butch anyway.

Why not?

[basedog]

Why not?

I've kinda of softened my feelings for Butch. He has done well at Auburn, now in saying this, I don't see him leaving Auburn unless he has a problem with Cohen. I have no clue who next "coach up" will be at Msu, I just know there are over 300 head coaches at 3 levels in college baseball. No reason why we can't find a good one.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Why not?

I don't think he would be on anyone's list if he hadn't coached here before. How many people wanting Butch would know his name had he not been on staff here? He would be a solid 3rd or 4th option.

[TNDawg35]

If there was any swinging, I?m sure they were all misses. No sarcastrics on purpose.

“I don’t know Barry, seems Hines may be carrying his left a little low. May hurt him in the later rounds…”

[Saltydog]

Why not?

That's what I keep wondering. He's been to the CWS twice in 5 years at a school that doesn't put that much into baseball and just beat LSU 2/3. That's darn sure better than we're going to do this weekend. He knows Starkville, he knows the SEC and this is home.

[sandjunky]

Sorry don?t want Butch

[CaptainObvious]

Sorry don?t want Butch

Who do you want that would come take over this cluster f??

[Quaoarsking]

Who do you want that would come take over this cluster f??

If our fans will support NIL, any competent coach will have us in the hosting conversation next year. The days of long rebuilds are over.

[BeardoMSU]

I don't think he would be on anyone's list if he hadn't coached here before. How many people wanting Butch would know his name had he not been on staff here? He would be a solid 3rd or 4th option.

I would usually agree with this sentiment, but in his case, he HAS gone to Omaha twice at school that is usually a league bottom feeder. Obviously him being a former coach at State plays a factor, but its not unearned.

[RiverCityDawg]

I don't think he would be on anyone's list if he hadn't coached here before. How many people wanting Butch would know his name had he not been on staff here? He would be a solid 3rd or 4th option.

He would be known as much as anyone knows other head coaches names.

I haven't done the research to know the exact number, but I would guess there are VERY few active coaches at programs clearly below ours that have taken their team to the CWS twice. Auburn is an extremely difficult job.

Who else has that on their resume... Other than Bianco?

Not that he's necessarily the best choice, but we could do FAR worse and likely will not hire someone as accomplished as Butch.

[Coach34]

Butch is in Y7 at Auburn- missed the tourney his 1st season and in 2021. Will likely make the tourney for 5th time this year with 2 CWS appearances and a Super.

We almost assuredly will not hire someone with that kind of a resume other than him. He is 52 tho and I would prefer someone a little younger

[KOdawg1]

Butch is in Y7 at Auburn- missed the tourney his 1st season and in 2021. Will likely make the tourney for 5th time this year with 2 CWS appearances and a Super.

We almost assuredly will not hire someone with that kind of a resume other than him. He is 52 tho and I would prefer someone a little younger
Yeah people acting like Butch wouldn't be a good hire are mistaken. The dude is putting up results at Auburn, which is one of the worst jobs in the SEC.

He wouldn't be my first call, but he's on the list

[Todd4State]

Yeah people acting like Butch wouldn't be a good hire are mistaken. The dude is putting up results at Auburn, which is one of the worst jobs in the SEC.

He wouldn't be my first call, but he's on the list

I think Butch would be good but he's not the best hire.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Butch is in Y7 at Auburn- missed the tourney his 1st season and in 2021. Will likely make the tourney for 5th time this year with 2 CWS appearances and a Super.

We almost assuredly will not hire someone with that kind of a resume other than him. He is 52 tho and I would prefer someone a little younger

Seriously I don't know what's wrong with people. They come across as Texas fans in the early 2010s thinking they could hire Saban from Bama.

We have great fans, great facilities, and a good history. We have mediocre NIL. Our program needs to be built back up. We are a good landing spot, but not so good as to distinguish ourselves from a Vandy, A&M, etc and lure their coach away. That leaves mid majors, assistants, and Butch as the best options.

Butch is making Omaha 1 out of every 3 years at a school that has no fan support, worse facilities, no tradition, and I can't imagine their boosters are supporting Baseball NIL more than us. He SHOULD be able to have more success here. But even a 50% Supers or Omaha rate of success is great, and that's what he's doing there.

[confucius say]

If our fans will support NIL, any competent coach will have us in the hosting conversation next year. The days of long rebuilds are over.

Our fans aren't supporting it. Even diehards on here won't. We have the worst nil fanbase in the league.

Also, Butch has never won a game in Omaha, has never had more than 16 sec wins, and is about to finish .500 or worse in sec for 5th time in 7 years with a bunch of 4th and 5th year guys.

But maybe that's the best we could do given where we are now and our lack of nil

[Goldendawg]

Is there anyway to know our total NIL and the breakdown per sport?

[Leroy Jenkins]

Well if we are going by resumes (re Butch) the guy we have now won a national championship 2 years ago. And Verne Troyer up the road won one last year, would any of you want him?

[preachermatt83]

I don't think he would be on anyone's list if he hadn't coached here before. How many people wanting Butch would know his name had he not been on staff here? He would be a solid 3rd or 4th option.

He?s taken auburn to multiple cws. Don?t be silly buddy. He?s well known and well liked

[StarkVegasSteve]

Some of you have gotten so singularly focused on one candidate, Haier, that you cannot open yourself up to other possibilities. It is very likely Haier would prefer to stay at Campbell over come here. I do not think some of you realize the shit we are about to eat in the coaching world for firing a coach 2 years removed from a national championship. This is not football where schools are raking in 100 mil plus each and every year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Is there anyway to know our total NIL and the breakdown per sport?

No school would be stupid enough to release that to anyone not donating 7 figures minimum. You do not let that get out to the general public and have it be used against them in recruiting.

[sandjunky]

Some of you have gotten so singularly focused on one candidate, Haier, that you cannot open yourself up to other possibilities. It is very likely Haier would prefer to stay at Campbell over come here. I do not think some of you realize the shit we are about to eat in the coaching world for firing a coach 2 years removed from a national championship. This is not football where schools are raking in 100 mil plus each and every year.
Disagree about coaching world turning a nose

If we had been competitive, yes, I would agree

Most reasonable coaches would look at this and say - Lemonis shit the bed given where he started

[ZedFedder]

Butch would be option 4 or 5 for me.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Is there anyway to know our total NIL and the breakdown per sport?
I would venture to say that our Baseball NIL is probably better than 90% of NCAA and middle of SEC.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Some of you have gotten so singularly focused on one candidate, Haier, that you cannot open yourself up to other possibilities. It is very likely Haier would prefer to stay at Campbell over come here. I do not think some of you realize the shit we are about to eat in the coaching world for firing a coach 2 years removed from a national championship. This is not football where schools are raking in 100 mil plus each and every year.

You mean eating shit for firing a coach who finished last in the conference 2 years in a row.... despite having more resources than his competition? I don't think so.

[Coach34]

You mean eating shit for firing a coach who finished last in the conference 2 years in a row.... despite having more resources than his competition? I don't think so.

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

[Commercecomet24]

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

This is accurate. 2 different animals.

[Coach34]

This is accurate. 2 different animals.

and especially no successful coach at a major school would make that jump. We will have to hire a mid-major head or P5 lower, or a top Asst from the SEC/ACC

[Leroy Jenkins]

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

I have no doubt he'll be back. The point is, with this mammoth collapse, he shouldn't be.

W-L record aside, there are just too many other issues.

[Homedawg]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

[sandjunky]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

Changing mechanics for the sake of changing mechanics is a recipe for an arm injury

Changing mechanics based on biomechanic efficiency is another story

[Homedawg]

Changing mechanics for the sake of changing mechanics is a recipe for an arm injury

Changing mechanics based on biomechanic efficiency is another story

He doesn't change them period is my point. Straight out of his mouth to my ears.

[Coach34]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

You know how old we are? We coached against each other 25 years ago. Wow time flies

I agree with Butch in that I would not recruit guys that had a major mechanics issue no matter how talented. In this day and age there are too many kids out there that should be pretty solid mechanically. But the biggest problem to me has been our willingness to recruit throwers vs pitchers. I get the mentality of spin rate and arm talent- but you also just have to recruit "pitchers". Guys that can just get people out.

JP France for example. Transferred in from Tulane and had a good year for us his Sr year. Wasnt overpowering but could pitch. Just got called up for the Astros.

[Pancho]

Sounds like he can identify talent that can in most cases actually throw strikes. At least they throw more % strikes than the Lemo/Fox system.

[Saltydog]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

Never knew that but I like how he taught our pitchers to attack the bottom half of the zone. . . . . We turned a lot of DP's under Butch. . . . .

[sandjunky]

He doesn't change them period is my point. Straight out of his mouth to my ears.
I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

[sandjunky]

You know how old we are? We coached against each other 25 years ago. Wow time flies

I agree with Butch in that I would not recruit guys that had a major mechanics issue no matter how talented. In this day and age there are too many kids out there that should be pretty solid mechanically. But the biggest problem to me has been our willingness to recruit throwers vs pitchers. I get the mentality of spin rate and arm talent- but you also just have to recruit "pitchers". Guys that can just get people out.

JP France for example. Transferred in from Tulane and had a good year for us his Sr year. Wasnt overpowering but could pitch. Just got called up for the Astros.

I?ve said this for a min now - whether it?s foxhall tinkering or what

Graveman was a pitcher - what 90-92 at state - now runs up to 99

Fascinating dude to talk pitching with and how he wants his catchers to receive each pitch

[Coach34]

I?ve said this for a min now - whether it?s foxhall tinkering or what

Graveman was a pitcher - what 90-92 at state - now runs up to 99

Fascinating dude to talk pitching with and how he wants his catchers to receive each pitch

Agree. I was a guy that threw 80 with a very good sinker and split FB that dropped down and in to righties. So I got a shit ton of ground balls. I could 4-seam about 82 at the hands and did that at times to keep hitters honest. I gave up 2 HR's in 2 years of juco with a career ERA in the 3's. I could just pitch.(for context- that's late 80's so ease up on the comparision to today). I knew nobody was coming after me because I didnt throw hard enough to move up a level. And I couldnt hit a slider to play everyday in the SEC. But I do regret not taking that offer to walk-on at Okra U.

We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.

[Homedawg]

I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

Technically speaking yes. I'm referring to leg swingers, cross body, tilted shoulders, drop and drive, any of the other hundreds of things that can cause issues. He doesn't touch em

[Coach34]

I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

Homedawg is an outstanding baseball mind. Not just a fan

[Coach34]

Technically speaking yes. I'm referring to leg swingers, cross body, tilted shoulders, drop and drive, any of the other hundreds of things that can cause issues. He doesn't touch em

kinda explains our pitching recruiting while he was at State

Thompson's changing arm slots on Girodo to make a guy that couldnt get anybody out to a guy that was outstanding out of the pen is one of the greatest transformations in coaching I've seen.

[DownwardDawg]

I wish Lemonis would figure it out. I like the dude. But I like winning more.

[basedog]

Quote from 34
?We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.?

34, you nailed! Cade is much better imo when he stays in low 90?s, he seems to be throwing more up in the zone, I don?t see him using his breaking ball as much either. Something changed.
JMO

[Homedawg]

Agree. I was a guy that threw 80 with a very good sinker and split FB that dropped down and in to righties. So I got a shit ton of ground balls. I could 4-seam about 82 at the hands and did that at times to keep hitters honest. I gave up 2 HR's in 2 years of juco with a career ERA in the 3's. I could just pitch.(for context- that's late 80's so ease up on the comparision to today). I knew nobody was coming after me because I didnt throw hard enough to move up a level. And I couldnt hit a slider to play everyday in the SEC. But I do regret not taking that offer to walk-on at Okra U.

We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.

It's the entire world of baseball and I don't like it. Obviously, our problems are worse than the rest. But how bout this stat, outside of skenes LSU's staff era in sec games was 7.15 BEFORE sundays game, one they got routed in!!! Skenes is a game changer and changed that entire team. Just think if we had him and Cade were our sat guy.... others have stated it but that stat points it out.

[HoopsDawg]

It's the entire world of baseball and I don't like it. Obviously, our problems are worse than the rest. But how bout this stat, outside of skenes LSU's staff era in sec games was 7.15 BEFORE sundays game, one they got routed in!!! Skenes is a game changer and changed that entire team. Just think if we had him and Cade were our sat guy.... others have stated it but that stat points it out.

We are 1-7 in SEC openers so yeah Skenes would have probably saved their jobs.

[shoeless joe]

Agree. I was a guy that threw 80 with a very good sinker and split FB that dropped down and in to righties. So I got a shit ton of ground balls. I could 4-seam about 82 at the hands and did that at times to keep hitters honest. I gave up 2 HR's in 2 years of juco with a career ERA in the 3's. I could just pitch.(for context- that's late 80's so ease up on the comparision to today). I knew nobody was coming after me because I didnt throw hard enough to move up a level. And I couldnt hit a slider to play everyday in the SEC. But I do regret not taking that offer to walk-on at Okra U.

We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.

The difference from then to today is that today you would have gone to driveline and actually threw upper 80s and maybe 90 and therefore would have never HAD to learn to pitch. You would have just been a thrower.

The mechanics of control are lost on this generation in exchange for velocity because velocity gets noticed. I?ve coached many a showcase all star that gets lots of attention but cant consistently record outs at the high school level because they?re 3-1 on every hitter and walk the bases loaded before the second out.

I?ve never been a mechanics changer myself. Although a tweak here or there can do wonders. The key to any part of the game is the mental side. I coached a grade A asshole shithead of a kid about 10+ years ago. He ended up quitting before his senior year because he refused to act like a decent human. But the son of a gun was a scrappy dirt bag of a ball player that flat understood the game. If there was an out to be made he got it. He wasn?t full of physical talent but he was as mentally sharp a ball player as I?ve coached. This is what?s missing in todays game. Players that fully pay attention and understand. All these metrics and data have taken that away and it is unfortunate.

[Schultzy]

Seems like more hitters these days are mechanically sound to catch up to that 96mph fastball that being a pitcher is more valuable than being a thrower and was glad to see this articulated by baseball guys.

[confucius say]

We are 1-7 in SEC openers so yeah Skenes would have probably saved their jobs.

Cade had great outings against OM and Auburn that we wasted. Solid against ark too.
Throw him on Saturday and he will get some wins.