I'm telling you now...

[Coach34]

It's gonna cost $6MM to tell Lemonizik and his crew to not come to work anymore- then add in the money it will cost for a new staff.

Lemonizik returns in 2024.

[viverlibre]

There's not doubt. The only he's gone is if the team gets blown out in all remaining conf games.

[Cowbell]

There's not doubt. The only he's gone is if the team gets blown out in all remaining conf games.

Or gets beaten by the all time undefeated....or pulls a Bohannon

[The Federalist Engineer]

It's gonna cost $6MM to tell Lemonizik and his crew to not come to work anymore- then add in the money it will cost for a new staff.

Lemonizik returns in 2024.

Awful news. Are you saying this piece-of-shit is on contract for 4 more years?

[Todd4State]

May be able to negotiate that down and I'm not sure if your figure includes Gautreau or not.

Even then- yes it will be very expensive to buy them out.

[Todd4State]

There's not doubt. The only he's gone is if the team gets blown out in all remaining conf games.

Well- he is 0-1 so far.

[EdwardDrayton]

It's gonna cost $6MM to tell Lemonizik and his crew to not come to work anymore- then add in the money it will cost for a new staff.

Lemonizik returns in 2024.

With all respect Coach, we very much hope you're not right about this one.

[PCHSDawg]

How much will it cost to retain this clown show?

[msstate7]

Since the championship, lemonis is 50-51 (15-37).

[sandjunky]

Since the championship, lemonis is 50-51 (15-37).

Hey if they want to keep this circus in town, there are much more enjoyable things I can spend my time, money and energy on.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Bianco got run ruled by Mizzou tonight

[msstate7]

Bianco got run ruled by Mizzou tonight. Both teams suck. The difference is Bianco has never gone 2 years in a row missing out on the tourney. If Bianco pulls a lemonis again next year, he will be fired

[R2Dawg]

. Both teams suck. The difference is Bianco has never gone 2 years in a row missing out on the tourney. If Bianco pulls a lemonis again next year, he will be fired

So how many times has MSU not made Hoover two times in a row? I'm sure its happened, I just can't remember when.

[Dawgface]

It's gonna cost $6MM to tell Lemonizik and his crew to not come to work anymore- then add in the money it will cost for a new staff.

Lemonizik returns in 2024.

Cool. Wake me up when this shit show is finally gone.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

This has been my thought all along. I never thought he would get fired. Firing the pitching coach gets you another year. Next year is the year that Lemonis will have his head on the line. We won a natty less than 24 months ago.

[TheLostDawg]

No way we extended him lost last year. That figure must include the whole staff

[basedog]

Since the championship, lemonis is 50-51 (15-37).

Tells the truth.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

He was always going to come back in 2024...he won't get fired until the end of 2024.

I didn't even turn the game on in a while, it wasn't talked about in our normal group texts...I could care less that we're even playing.

Sad place to be in for State baseball. Feels like the croom era.

[Quaoarsking]

"Lemonizik" is not a clever nickname at all. The syllables/emphases just don't line up right and it's just an awkward mouthful to say out loud.

Let's do better, both on the baseball field and on the boards.

[basedog]

It's getting worse each week, I wish and hope we win out, but we all know this ain't happening. As far as him coming back, well we all are guessing right now, I think it's closer to 50-50 than 100% he is back. I have to laugh when folks talk about "we can't fire him, look at the upcoming class commits." Hasn't his recruiting been highly rated but we are 50-51 over last two season (thanks Ms 7), LOL As far as the buyout, it could be done and don't think it can't, foolish to think other wise. In saying that, he may be back, then again......

Let's go Dawgs, let's win this series!

[RockyDog]

Ridiculous to even entertain spending that much on a club sport. We need offensive skill players and defense linemen.

[The Federalist Engineer]

It's getting worse each week, I wish and hope we win out, but we all know this ain't happening. As far as him coming back, well we all are guessing right now, I think it's closer to 50-50 than 100% he is back. I have to laugh when folks talk about "we can't fire him, look at the upcoming class commits." Hasn't his recruiting been highly rated but we are 50-51 over last two season (thanks Ms 7), LOL As far as the buyout, it could be done and don't think it can't, foolish to think other wise. In saying that, he may be back, then again......

Let's go Dawgs, let's win this series!

100% agree - this dude has trashed the program. Also, he does not get 100% credit for the championship. My attribution:

(1) 5% Andy Cannizarro & Gary Henderson
(2) 15% Landon Sims as an Individual
(3) 15% Will Bednar as an Individual
(4) 15% Tanner Allen as an Individual
(5) 10% Rowdey, H Harding, and Logan Tanner as Individuals
(6) 10% Dude Effect and the Bulldog Nation
(7) 5% Jake Mangum for 2021 attitude
(8) 10% John Cohen's resurrection of Polk 2.0
(9) 13% Other factors
(10) 2% Bucket Man

I really don't think MSU should pay 2M for a coach now or ever. Just pay pretty good and spend better on assistants. In my opinion, the strength of the program is the MSU Nation, the dang coach is just an employee that you have to replace on a frequency.

[Quaoarsking]

Lemonis has been terrible these last 2 years and deserves to be fired, but contriving a way to remove credit from hom for the national title is silly. He got it done when lots of great coaches here and elsewhere never could and deserves every accolade he'll get for the rest of his life for that achievement.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Agreed. Granted he did it with everyone else?s players. But yeah, he was the dude that made every great decision during that entire season that year.

This year reminds me of when you are playing Halo and no matter which way you turn during the game, the other team flanks you from the other direction.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

Ridiculous to even entertain spending that much on a club sport. We need offensive skill players and defense linemen.

lol, if you think we have the funds by kicking baseball to the curb to get football players, you're sadly mistaken. We wouldn't be able to "buy" them with or without the baseball money being there.

[sandjunky]

I believe he is gone

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

I believe he is gone

I hope you're right, i've never been so disinterested in a Mississippi State sport...I cared more about the football team in the croom era than this nonsense.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lemonis has been terrible these last 2 years and deserves to be fired, but contriving a way to remove credit from hom for the national title is silly. He got it done when lots of great coaches here and elsewhere never could and deserves every accolade he'll get for the rest of his life for that achievement.

Winning at MSU with the inherited lineup of 1st rounders, SEC POY, facilities, stadium, and fan support is not something a two year coach can claim for himself. It's not like MSU was Michigan State going to regionals, supers, and Omaha with a bunch of goof-troop rejects.

You could say legends like Polk, Paul Petrulis, Burke Masters, Judy Hurst, Jay Powell, BJ Wallace, Rex Buckner, Carlton Loewer, Bruce Castoria, Nick Vickerson, John Harden, Cole Gordon and Nelson Arriete built the bridge to 2021. He just had to cross it.

The fans in stands were built for 2021 too. Ron Polk personally made me a fan for life as a 3rd grader. Firm commited fan for life. Polk shook my hand and gave me a ball, I still have.

[Mjoelner34]

Ridiculous to even entertain spending that much on a club sport. We need offensive skill players and defense linemen.

And if every true MSU fan donated 75% of their income.to get those players, that amount still wouldn't be a pimple on the ass of what the top tier schools who were after those same players could pay. Like it or not, baseball is the only sport we will ever have a chance to make noise with NIL-wise..

[Coach34]

I believe he is gone

A guy I know who talks to the money guys:

“It’s going to cost $6MM to fire them. Good luck finding that”

[DownwardDawg]

I believe he is gone

I do too.

[Offshore Dawg]

I believe he is gone

Based on what ??

[Cowbell]

A guy I know who talks to the money guys:

“It’s going to cost $6MM to fire them. Good luck finding that”

The question is how much ticket/concession/donor revenue will atrophy cost us next season.

[Homedawg]

The question is how much ticket/concession/donor revenue will atrophy cost us next season.

All the tickets will be sold. The loss will be minimal.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I believe he is gone

If he was gong to be gone, they wouldn't have fired Foxhall during the season. They are not firing a staff piecemeal.

[HoopsDawg]

What's clear is that the MSU program is not foolproof. I started to think it was after Cohen-Cann-Henderson-Lemonis all took us Super Regionals.

[Pancho]

If he was gong to be gone, they wouldn't have fired Foxhall during the season. They are not firing a staff piecemeal.

they didn't fire anyone. Lemo did that on his own to attempt to save his own ass. If they want more of the same next year, they will retain him. end of story

[MaroonFlounder]

What's clear is that the MSU program is not foolproof. I started to think it was after Cohen-Cann-Henderson-Lemonis all took us Super Regionals.

That was the influence of one Jake Mangum, not any coaches. He was a huge reason Tanner, Rowdy and those guys got the team a trophy.

Jake didn’t reach the mountaintop, unfortunately, but my hope is that he returns to be a coach someday

[Quaoarsking]

Winning at MSU with the inherited lineup of 1st rounders, SEC POY, facilities, stadium, and fan support is not something a two year coach can claim for himself. It's not like MSU was Michigan State going to regionals, supers, and Omaha with a bunch of goof-troop rejects.

You could say legends like Polk, Paul Petrulis, Burke Masters, Judy Hurst, Jay Powell, BJ Wallace, Rex Buckner, Carlton Loewer, Bruce Castoria, Nick Vickerson, John Harden, Cole Gordon and Nelson Arriete built the bridge to 2021. He just had to cross it.

The fans in stands were built for 2021 too. Ron Polk personally made me a fan for life as a 3rd grader. Firm commited fan for life. Polk shook my hand and gave me a ball, I still have.

I just don't know why you want to minimize his accomplishment. So he had a foundation laid for him. So do a lot of national title winning coaches. So do a lot of coaches who fail to win a national title. He still went through a gauntlet to get there and deserves every bit of credit.

The best case scenario is for him to resign at the end of this season but still make it back to Starkville once a year going forward for a huge standing ovation.

[Coach34]

State baseball was good before Polk. People need to realize that as well. Polk got the investment into baseball and a stadium built.

[Pancho]

He did great with someone else's recruits and now struggles with his own recruits. He is at the bottom of the SEC standings with a clear plan to in fact stay there. If this is what MSU baseball now desires to be, then keep him.

[Dawgface]

A guy I know who talks to the money guys:

“It’s going to cost $6MM to fire them. Good luck finding that”

So what's the price the following year...$4MM? I guess we're stuck with this crew until their contract runs out.

[Pancho]

that's a parting gift for winning a natty with cann and hendo's players. bye bye

[basedog]

What was Joe Mo’s buyout?

[The Federalist Engineer]

What's clear is that the MSU program is not foolproof. I started to think it was after Cohen-Cann-Henderson-Lemonis all took us Super Regionals.

A young man named Jake Mangum says hi. He was on all these teams. Shows what a special group of guys Mangum, Cole Gordon, TA, Rowdey, and MacNamee where.

[Goldendawg]

This has been my thought all along. I never thought he would get fired. Firing the pitching coach gets you another year. Next year is the year that Lemonis will have his head on the line. We won a natty less than 24 months ago.

If he stays, hope Selmon can negotiate a much better buyout. It may be needed during or after the 2024 season.

[EdwardDrayton]

If he stays, hope Selmon can negotiate a much better buyout. It may be needed during or after the 2024 season.

If it's not enough our championship program is two years bottom dwelling, now we're too poor to boot the people that unbelievably made that happen.

[maroonmania]

If he stays, hope Selmon can negotiate a much better buyout. It may be needed during or after the 2024 season.

Yes, let's hope so. If I was Lemonis, after putting this proud program at the very bottom of the conference for 2 straight years right after 3 straight trips to Omaha, I would be too embarrassed to expect a full buyout.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yes, let's hope so. If I was Lemonis, after putting this proud program at the very bottom of the conference for 2 straight years right after 3 straight trips to Omaha, I would be too embarrassed to expect a full buyout.

Hey, how 'bout don't sign contracts we can't afford to buy out?!!?

[EdwardDrayton]

Yes, let's hope so. If I was Lemonis, after putting this proud program at the very bottom of the conference for 2 straight years right after 3 straight trips to Omaha, I would be too embarrassed to expect a full buyout.

He'll deal with the embarrassment while the teller deposits the full buyout.

[Coursesuper]

Yes, let's hope so. If I was Lemonis, after putting this proud program at the very bottom of the conference for 2 straight years right after 3 straight trips to Omaha, I would be too embarrassed to expect a full buyout..
Really, umm no. It will be a full or negotiated buyout but will damn sure not be a bargain.

[maroonmania]

He'll deal with the embarrassment while the teller deposits the full buyout.

These guaranteed contracts that have no tie at all to how you perform are for the birds.

[Coach34]

Yes, let's hope so. If I was Lemonis, after putting this proud program at the very bottom of the conference for 2 straight years right after 3 straight trips to Omaha, I would be too embarrassed to expect a full buyout.

Nobody is going to accept less. We are very unlikely to pay $6MM in dead money in a Biden economy. Plus more to get a new staff.

Lemon has a Top 10 recruiting class and that will likely save him

[Cowbell]

These guaranteed contracts that have no tie at all to how you perform are for the birds.

2 Losing seasons should be a breezy of duty in any contract and if a coach isn't willing to be confident enough for that not to happen, than he ain't our guy.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Guys I will just be completely honest with you. I do not know if there is a quick fix to this. We are as bad culturally as we have been since the beginning of Cohen. I am afraid we are almost going to have to completely purge this roster outside of 3 or 4 guys. This is beginning to look like a 2-3 year rebuild at the earliest. As much as I know it is going to sink us for the next 2 years I think we need to go ahead and pull the plug on this before it gets worse. Because while we are very near the bottom I do not think we’ve hit rock bottom yet.

[Coach34]

Guys I will just be completely honest with you. I do not know if there is a quick fix to this. We are as bad culturally as we have been since the beginning of Cohen. I am afraid we are almost going to have to completely purge this roster outside of 3 or 4 guys. This is beginning to look like a 2-3 year rebuild at the earliest. As much as I know it is going to sink us for the next 2 years I think we need to go ahead and pull the plug on this before it gets worse. Because while we are very near the bottom I do not think we’ve hit rock bottom yet.

Explain the problems with this team's culture

[StarkVegasSteve]

Explain the problems with this team's culture

We have no leadership and in the words of Julius Campbell, Attitude reflects leadership. As far back as I can remember we have had 3 or 4 clubhouse leaders on our teams. Whether that be a Will Clark, a Tommy Raffo, a Travis Chapman, a Mitch Moreland, a Conner Powers, a Hunter Renfroe, a Manniscalco, or hell even a Brooks Bryan

[Coach34]

We have no leadership and in the words of Julius Campbell, Attitude reflects leadership.

We hustle
We dive for balls
We congratulate guys for good plays
We pay attention to coaching signals
Yes- we do dumb shit

The culture isnt bad except that Alford should be run off. Pitching is this team's problem. Got to fix it

[StarkVegasSteve]

We hustle
We dive for balls
We congratulate guys for good plays
We pay attention to coaching signals
Yes- we do dumb shit

The culture isnt bad except that Alford should be run off. Pitching is this team's problem. Got to fix it

We also run into each other in the outfield
Run into each other in the infield
Have no clue how to lay off a breaking ball
And yes, we do dumb shit.

Do agree that Alford needs to go but our problems are far beyond just pitching.

[Coach34]

We also run into each other in the outfield
Run into each other in the infield
Have no clue how to lay off a breaking ball
And yes, we do dumb shit.

Do agree that Alford needs to go but our problems are far beyond just pitching.

other teams do that shit too- other teams do not have a top 10 recruiting class

[viverlibre]

C34, I've been right there beside you saying Lemon juice would be back in 2024. But today's effort was so pitiful, I'm beginning to doubt. I have exactly zero knowledge of the fiances though nor do I know any cigar boys.

[StarkVegasSteve]

other teams do that shit too- other teams do not have a top 10 recruiting class

So I am not trying to criticize here, just understand your point. But you are saying we need to keep Lemonis because even though it is painfully obvious he cannot manage he can recruit pretty good and that cancels out the coaching. There is probably some logic in that take, but if he cannot manage then it does not matter what kind of talent you are bringing in.

[maroonmania]

We suck at every facet of the game. Our vaunted offense has 4 runs in 2 games this weekend. This is the second year in a row that we are going to finish the season getting worse rather than better. Lemonis has no clue how to fix this. If we need to make a change then 4 to 6 mil should not stop us.

[basedog]

We suck at every facet of the game. Our vaunted offense has 4 runs in 2 games this weekend. This is the second year in a row that we are going to finish the season getting worse rather than better. Lemonis has no clue how to fix this. If we need to make a change then 4 to 6 mil should not stop us.

It’s coming.

[Coach34]

C34, I've been right there beside you saying Lemon juice would be back in 2024. But today's effort was so pitiful, I'm beginning to doubt. I have exactly zero knowledge of the fiances though nor do I know any cigar boys.

Dude- I hear ya. Was our effort bad or did our pitching suck and the defense melt? Let's see what tomorrow brings. We will have to be extremely bad down the stretch for the money guys to pony up and risk our top 10 recruiting class

[Coach34]

So I am not trying to criticize here, just understand your point. But you are saying we need to keep Lemonis because even though it is painfully obvious he cannot manage he can recruit pretty good and that cancels out the coaching. There is probably some logic in that take, but if he cannot manage then it does not matter what kind of talent you are bringing in.

I'm not a Lemon fan. Havent been. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT

4 seasons- 2 CWS. Top 10 recruiting classes. A Natty. A Top 10 Recruiting class for 2023. Hard to fire that guy

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm not a Lemon fan. Havent been. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT

4 seasons- 2 CWS. Top 10 recruiting classes. A Natty. A Top 10 Recruiting class for 2023. Hard to fire that guy

And I hate to be THAT GUY, but…..those were not his players and not his culture. We were still going off the culture instilled by Cohen, Cann, and Henderson.

[Coach34]

And I hate to be THAT GUY, but…..those were not his players and not his culture. We were still going off the culture instilled by Cohen, Cann, and Henderson.

3 years later? Were we?

Lemonizik was in his his 3rd year including the pandemic in 2021- the program was his at that point.

[StarkVegasSteve]

3 years later? Were we?

Lemonizik was in his his 4th year including the pandemic in 2021- the program was his at that point.

TA, Rowdey and Self were still there. Culture was still there.

[Coach34]

TA, Rowdey and Self were still there. Culture was still there.

I hate to tell ya- 3 guys dont define your culture.

We won a CWS because we got timely hitting and Bednar turned into Superman

[StarkVegasSteve]

I hate to tell ya- 3 guys dont define your culture.

We won a CWS because we got timely hitting and Bednar turned into Superman

Yes Bednar went on the heater of a lifetime in Omaha, but we got there because of TA just being superhuman for a majority of the year and just not letting us lose. He and Rowdey made sure that no one let go of the rope. Those guys were able to make sure we were in a position for Bednar to do what he did.

And look, I will give Lemonis credit for some of that because he was able to push the right buttons a majority of the time.

[Coach34]

aGAIN- not a big Lemon supporter. BUT:

2 of 4 years we have been the CWS
He is recruiting extremely well
I dont think we gonna throw $6MM dead money plus millions more on a new staff in this economy

[Coach34]

aGAIN- not a big Lemon supporter. BUT:

2 of 4 years we have been the CWS
He is recruiting extremely well
I dont think we gonna throw $6MM dead money plus millions more on a new staff in this economy

[EdwardDrayton]

I'm not a Lemon fan. Havent been. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT

4 seasons- 2 CWS. Top 10 recruiting classes. A Natty. A Top 10 Recruiting class for 2023. Hard to fire that guy

We are TWO CONSECUTIVE YEARS OF BOTTOM DWELLING LOSING!!

[Coach34]

We are TWO CONSECUTIVE YEARS OF BOTTOM DWELLING LOSING!!

We did that when Cohen was HC and didnt fire him either

[StarkVegasSteve]

We did that when Cohen was HC and didnt fire him either

He also took over a program that was so incredibly outdated in every phase of running a program that it took us 3 years to bring the program into the 21st century.

[Coach34]

He also took over a program that was so incredibly outdated in every phase of running a program that it took us 3 years to bring the program into the 21st century.

Totally agree

[Cowbell]

aGAIN- not a big Lemon supporter. BUT:

2 of 4 years we have been the CWS
He is recruiting extremely well
I dont think we gonna throw $6MM dead money plus millions more on a new staff in this economy

LSU fired their last HC for lessor issues

[Coach34]

LSU fired their last HC for lessor issues

We arent LSU and never will be

[StarkVegasSteve]

We arent LSU and never will be

Not even remotely close. When they win national titles, they focus on the next one.

[Saltydog]

Nobody is going to accept less. We are very unlikely to pay $6MM in dead money in a Biden economy. Plus more to get a new staff.

Lemon has a Top 10 recruiting class and that will likely save him

What about the vaunted class he brought in last year? Yeah, we have some nice position players that are frosh but on the mound it's not good. Other than Lo and Loftin what talent is there? Forsythe, Gibbs, Hardin, Siary, Tapper haven't impressed at all.

[Todd4State]

What about the vaunted class he brought in last year? Yeah, we have some nice position players that are frosh but on the mound it's not good. Other than Lo and Loftin what talent is there? Forsythe, Gibbs, Hardin, Siary, Tapper haven't impressed at all.

You're not impressed with freshmen who have had very little coaching?

All the guys you mentioned have potential outside of Hardin.

[sandjunky]

Say what you will, I still believe he is gone

[BrunswickDawg]

He also took over a program that was so incredibly outdated in every phase of running a program that it took us 3 years to bring the program into the 21st century.

So backwards it was only a year removed from a CWS? Look, Polk was old school and was never the same after he retired the first time in '92 and changed his mind. He needed to retire. But, we gave the guy our stadium is named after a shorter leash then what Lemonis is getting. Polk II had 1 losing season - his last.

[bulldogcountry1]

they didn't fire anyone. Lemo did that on his own to attempt to save his own ass. If they want more of the same next year, they will retain him. end of story

If Foxhall had a buyout, Lemonis didn?t fire him on his own. Someone had to pay him to leave, and Lemonis had to get them to sign off in it.

[Saltydog]

You're not impressed with freshmen who have had very little coaching?

All the guys you mentioned have potential outside of Hardin.

Potential to get their shit pushed in. I don't see power arms there maybe other than Forsythe and I could see Tapper being a lefty specialists but the rest should be in a mid major, not sec. Sure the bad development is on Foxhall but the bad evaluation and recruitment is on lemonis.

[Coach34]

If Foxhall had a buyout, Lemonis didn?t fire him on his own. Someone had to pay him to leave, and Lemonis had to get them to sign off in it.

Exactly. Lemonis had to ask permission to fire Fox

[DownwardDawg]

Exactly. Lemonis had to ask permission to fire Fox

Permission granted. There. It's that easy. When the head coach wants to fire someone he fires them.

[Pinto]

We were talking about this at the game yesterday. When was the last time a coach had to slap a C on someone?s chest to denote captain? That was sign one we were in trouble. All our good/great teams had that alpha dog the everyone knew was the captain without saying it or recognizing it.


We have no leadership and in the words of Julius Campbell, Attitude reflects leadership. As far back as I can remember we have had 3 or 4 clubhouse leaders on our teams. Whether that be a Will Clark, a Tommy Raffo, a Travis Chapman, a Mitch Moreland, a Conner Powers, a Hunter Renfroe, a Manniscalco, or hell even a Brooks Bryan

[bulldogcountry1]

Permission granted. There. It's that easy. When the head coach wants to fire someone he fires them.

Not if they have a contract that says you have to pay me a million dollars to fire me.

[maroonmania]

I'm not a Lemon fan. Havent been. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT

4 seasons- 2 CWS. Top 10 recruiting classes. A Natty. A Top 10 Recruiting class for 2023. Hard to fire that guy

Baseball recruiting rankings are the least reliable recruiting rankings in all of college athletics. OM has been having Top 10 rankings as well WITH a guy that has a 20 year track record and they suck as bad as we do.

[Saltydog]

So, what's the deal with Alford? I keep hearing people saying he's a problem. I know he was part of the issue in frisco earlier this year and apparently something happened last night but could it be that's he's competitive and just irritated by the losing or has he become a cancer in the clubhouse blaming others, yada, yada. From what I gather earlier in the year he picked a fight with the wrong guy.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

We're looking right down the barrel of a 10+ year repair if something doesn't change.

[Todd4State]

Potential to get their shit pushed in. I don't see power arms there maybe other than Forsythe and I could see Tapper being a lefty specialists but the rest should be in a mid major, not sec. Sure the bad development is on Foxhall but the bad evaluation and recruitment is on lemonis.

Let's see how they look with a pitching coach and then we'll decide who belongs and who doesn't. At least Tapper actually attacks hitters.

[raymonddawg]

IMO there is probably less than 10% chance Lem is fired. Its just not gonna happen like that.

We need to hire the best available pitching coach and let him identify a handful of players and attack the transfer portal for pitchers. This team with a competitive pitching staff could be a pretty good squad.

[Cowbell]

IMO there is probably less than 10% chance Lem is fired. Its just not gonna happen like that.

We need to hire the best available pitching coach and let him identify a handful of players and attack the transfer portal for pitchers. This team with a competitive pitching staff could be a pretty good squad.

This team with a pretty competitive coaching staff could be a pretty good squad too

[maroonmania]

IMO there is probably less than 10% chance Lem is fired. Its just not gonna happen like that.

We need to hire the best available pitching coach and let him identify a handful of players and attack the transfer portal for pitchers. This team with a competitive pitching staff could be a pretty good squad.

I thought that at one point but is a pitching coach going to correct fielding of routine fly balls or a routine grounder? Is a pitching coach going change our HR or nothing approach to offense? I think we have a lot more problems than just pitching although there is no doubt pitching is our worst problem.

[Homedawg]

We were talking about this at the game yesterday. When was the last time a coach had to slap a C on someone?s chest to denote captain? That was sign one we were in trouble. All our good/great teams had that alpha dog the everyone knew was the captain without saying it or recognizing it.

We have had captains for a long time. Back to the Polk Era. This is just the first time there has ever been a C put on the jersey. Don't know if Cohen had them or not. But this entire thing of the C on the chest is being WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overblown. We aren't losing bc Luke has a C on his chest. Just Silly.

[Mjoelner34]

Delete double post

[Mjoelner34]

IMO there is probably less than 10% chance Lem is fired. Its just not gonna happen like that.

We need to hire the best available pitching coach who knows he only has 1 year to totally straighten out our pitching staffand let him identify a handful of players and attack the transfer portal for pitchers. This team with a competitive pitching staff could be a pretty good squad.

Fifty because if we keep Lemonis, any pitching coach we get is walking straight into that situation.

[TNDawg35]

I thought that at one point but is a pitching coach going to correct fielding of routine fly balls or a routine grounder? Is a pitching coach going change our HR or nothing approach to offense? I think we have a lot more problems than just pitching although there is no doubt pitching is our worst problem.

I will say this, when you standing In The outfield and watching pitcher after pitcher get their shit pushed, you tend to have lapses. We are a very talented team who looks like shit. You also can’t expect freshman to walk in and make a huge impact u less they are studs like DJ. Hell Loftin was damn near unhittable until he got hurt. He just couldn’t throw strikes. Mershan has been a real surprise and looks like the future at either SS or 2B.

[Saltydog]

IMO there is probably less than 10% chance Lem is fired. Its just not gonna happen like that.

We need to hire the best available pitching coach and let him identify a handful of players and attack the transfer portal for pitchers. This team with a competitive pitching staff could be a pretty good squad.

The transfer portal hasn't necessarily been kind to us for pitchers. Tyler Davis and Gartman have both been bad. Dohm is all over the place too. Good sometime and horrible others. Made 15 appearances and given up 7 dingers. Nixon has been good in limited appearances. We gotta do better than that.

[Cowbell]

The transfer portal hasn't necessarily been kind to us for pitchers. Tyler Davis and Gartman have both been bad. Dohm is all over the place too. Good sometime and horrible others. Made 15 appearances and given up 7 dingers. Nixon has been good in limited appearances. We gotta do better than that.

I don't understand what we are trying to do with Nixon. We do not get enough usage out of him for him to be one of our better pitchers

[confucius say]

We have had captains for a long time. Back to the Polk Era. This is just the first time there has ever been a C put on the jersey. Don't know if Cohen had them or not. But this entire thing of the C on the chest is being WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overblown. We aren't losing bc Luke has a C on his chest. Just Silly.

I'm more concerned that he is hitting .211 in sec play and can't control a running game better than me than I am that he is a captain (although that was stupid because you can be around him 2 minutes and know that's not his personality).

[confucius say]

I don't understand what we are trying to do with Nixon. We do not get enough usage out of him for him to be one of our better pitchers

When it was 3-3 Sunday in the fourth and we went cheathem, we should have went with our best guy. Same thing when we were up 8-6 vs TN in the sixth in game two.

[Jarius]

I don't understand what we are trying to do with Nixon. We do not get enough usage out of him for him to be one of our better pitchers

Having a designated closer in college has always been really silly to me because it's usually one of your best guys and you're usually getting him only an inning or 2 per weekend. I have never understood why coaches felt that getting 3 outs in the 9th was more important than 3 outs in the 6th. Pitch your best guys until they run out of gas and then pitch your next best guy, unless you have a specialty guy that you want to work a matchup with. I would rather try to piece something together at the end of the game then not even be in the game at all late. I just don't feel like college programs have enough talent on the mound most of the time to justify using one of their best pitchers for 1-2 innings a week.

[confucius say]

We hustle
We dive for balls
We congratulate guys for good plays
We pay attention to coaching signals
Yes- we do dumb shit

The culture isnt bad except that Alford should be run off. Pitching is this team's problem. Got to fix it

We're soft in everything we do. That's the culture problem. We don't have alphas who are looking to cut your throat. At least not the upperclassmen.

I can support Lem getting another year though. But we need to hire a top pitching coach and pay him whatever it takes, even if that means Lem taking a 300k pay cut to keep his job.

[raymonddawg]

I thought that at one point but is a pitching coach going to correct fielding of routine fly balls or a routine grounder? Is a pitching coach going change our HR or nothing approach to offense? I think we have a lot more problems than just pitching although there is no doubt pitching is our worst problem.

Yes, I actually think competitive pitching would correct most of the fielding issues. I promise the number of walks, passed balls, wild pitches we allow is tough on our defenders. Its very difficult to stay engaged and ready during all of this. If we are shoving it on the mound I guarantee you we probably cut our errors in half this year.

[Coach34]

We're soft in everything we do. That's the culture problem. We don't have alphas who are looking to cut your throat. At least not the upperclassmen.

I can support Lem getting another year though. But we need to hire a top pitching coach and pay him whatever it takes, even if that means Lem taking a 300k pay cut to keep his job.

A) totally agree

B) I'm torn. I dont think another year is going to make Lemon a better coach- but it will get another talented group of freshmens on campus. My worry on making the move this year is that it will turn some coaches off from coming. "Damn, he won a Natty and they firing the guy already. Wtf go there when some pitching injuries could cost you your job in 2 years????"

Not everybody sees the situation on an every day basis the way we do

[PMDawg]

A) totally agree

B) I'm torn. I dont think another year is going to make Lemon a better coach- but it will get another talented group of freshmens on campus. My worry on making the move this year is that it will turn some coaches off from coming. "Damn, he won a Natty and they firing the guy already. Wtf go there when some pitching injuries could cost you your job in 2 years????"

Not everybody sees the situation on an every day basis the way we do

On B) - Do we lose more talent to the portal if we keep Lemon, or more due to decommitments from next year's class if we fire him?

[TStationDawg]

A) totally agree

B) I'm torn. I dont think another year is going to make Lemon a better coach- but it will get another talented group of freshmens on campus. My worry on making the move this year is that it will turn some coaches off from coming. "Damn, he won a Natty and they firing the guy already. Wtf go there when some pitching injuries could cost you your job in 2 years????"

Not everybody sees the situation on an every day basis the way we do


To me, this is even a better reason to go ahead and do it:

1) Any coach worth us going after is going to already know we had no choice BUT to can him, with the crapshow put on the field the last two years. These coaches all know each other. I want a guy who looks our program and says "Can't believe he screwed it up that bad after winning a Natty-I can turn this around, blah, blah, blah"

2) Any coach that's worried we're moving on too quickly from the failure the past 2 seasons has been, I don't want him anyway. We're not talking about missing Omaha for 2 seasons for crying out loud, we're missing HOOVER!!!!!!!!!!

[BrunswickDawg]

A) totally agree

B) I'm torn. I dont think another year is going to make Lemon a better coach- but it will get another talented group of freshmens on campus. My worry on making the move this year is that it will turn some coaches off from coming. "Damn, he won a Natty and they firing the guy already. Wtf go there when some pitching injuries could cost you your job in 2 years????"

Not everybody sees the situation on an every day basis the way we do

While I think getting rid of Lemonis is the right move - the bold above is a big deal. Baseball is a sport that thrives on stability and a firing has a chance to destabilize things more. It's a real crap shoot. If I were Selmon, I'd be damn sure who my hire was before I pulled a trigger.

[Cowbell]

Having a designated closer in college has always been really silly to me because it's usually one of your best guys and you're usually getting him only an inning or 2 per weekend. I have never understood why coaches felt that getting 3 outs in the 9th was more important than 3 outs in the 6th. Pitch your best guys until they run out of gas and then pitch your next best guy, unless you have a specialty guy that you want to work a matchup with. I would rather try to piece something together at the end of the game then not even be in the game at all late. I just don't feel like college programs have enough talent on the mound most of the time to justify using one of their best pitchers for 1-2 innings a week.

This is the way I see it too. And we are so short of pitchers, We need to be stacking our better pitchers in one game. We're spreading them out across three games and not winning any of them.

[Coach34]

To me, this is even a better reason to go ahead and do it:

1) Any coach worth us going after is going to already know we had no choice BUT to can him, with the crapshow put on the field the last two years. These coaches all know each other. I want a guy who looks our program and says "Can't believe he screwed it up that bad after winning a Natty-I can turn this around, blah, blah, blah"

2) Any coach that's worried we're moving on too quickly from the failure the past 2 seasons has been, I don't want him anyway. We're not talking about missing Omaha for 2 seasons for crying out loud, we're missing HOOVER!!!!!!!!!!

It's ok to have that view- just dont be mad when we hire head coach from N. Florida or the top asst from NC State as our new HC

[Activated Alpha]

I am fine with keeping Lemonis as long as he goes full Deon on this roster of non SEC players. This current freshman class and the one following seems to be legit. Get a pitching coach that seems to be engaged and push the portal HARD

[Cooterpoot]

I look forward to a new staff.

[The Federalist Engineer]

It's ok to have that view- just dont be mad when we hire head coach from N. Florida or the top asst from NC State as our new HC

Pretty sure MSU could hire the entire USM staff today. Utah coach for sure, that Utah coach has SEC and CWS experience and his wife liked Starkville.

You are also talking millions of dollars if you perform in Starkville.

Personally, I've never even asked about the previous guy in any job I have taken. I always assume he was vastly inferior. Coaches are probably 5x more alpha and reptilian brained than engineers.

You could even just Ice Leominis for a year, give Gotro a raise to HC and let Gotro hire the USM staff plus Cannizarro as the new Hitting Coach. Tell Lemonis to sell beer in the right field esplanade, he can sit on a bucket of ice and sell beer.

[Homedawg]

We aren't hiring Scott berry. We aren't hiring Gary henderson. And Please stop w the cann bs. He part of the reason we are where we are. AND he wouldn't do his job the first damn time.

[Quaoarsking]

I'm quite confident that we could pull almost any non-P5 head coach as long as we aren't going up against another P5 school to get him. The only exception would be someone who's really established and just doesn't want to leave for anywhere.

[Coach34]

We aren't hiring Scott berry. We aren't hiring Gary henderson. And Please stop w the cann bs. He part of the reason we are where we are. AND he wouldn't do his job the first damn time.

Its comical some of these replies. Henderson is 61 years old. Has a job with no expectations. Got fired at Kentucky. Coaches ALWAYS ask about the previous guy. Always. And in the SEC- they already know about the previous guy.

What bothers me is people just blow off the fact that on our last hire- we were turned down multiple times and had to hire Indiana's HC. Coming off CWS appearances. Cohen didnt mess up any search- he hired someone highly recommended that would take the job.

[AlSwearengen]

Scott Berry, from all indications is easing toward retirement (he isn’t a young guy anymore) with Ostrander taking over. Can we please stop talking about them?

[Coach34]

I'm quite confident that we could pull almost any non-P5 head coach as long as we aren't going up against another P5 school to get him. The only exception would be someone who's really established and just doesn't want to leave for anywhere.

That eliminates Dallas Baptist and East Carolina for sure. So yeah- We will be looking to hire from nobody schools.

[Cowbell]

Its comical some of these replies. Henderson is 61 years old. Has a job with no expectations. Got fired at Kentucky. Coaches ALWAYS ask about the previous guy. Always. And in the SEC- they already know about the previous guy.

What bothers me is people just blow off the fact that on our last hire- we were turned down multiple times and had to hire Indiana's HC. Coming off CWS appearances. Cohen didnt mess up any search- he hired someone highly recommended that would take the job.

We absolutely could have gotten Schloss last go round. That I know.

People seem to forget how we were all scared to death Cohen would give Henderson the full-time job. He wasn't even a great pitching coach.

[Coach34]

We absolutely could have gotten Schloss last go round. That I know.

People seem to forget how we were all scared to death Cohen would give Henderson the full-time job. He wasn't even a great pitching coach.

Yes but he wasnt willing to wait until the season was over to take the job because TCU had him on a deadline for their contract. We had told him he was the guy- so the fact he wouldnt wait tells me he wasnt that serious about leaving then. All he had to do was wait until after the CWS and he was our coach. So why didnt he wait????

[Coach34]

He wasn't even a great pitching coach.

Henderson is twice the pitching coach Fox is. The people that got better under Henderson dwarfs Fox. Girodo's transformation was a ******* miracle

[The Federalist Engineer]

Henderson is twice the pitching coach Fox is. The people that got better under Henderson dwarfs Fox. Girodo's transformation was a ******* miracle

Not messing with you Coach, but the Girodo Miracle was Butch. The other Butch miracle was Lindgren.

The Henderson miracle was how he maxed out Cole Gordon, Riley Self, Spencer Price, Payton Plumlee, and had Jake Mangum into a Saturday-Ready state. Then Jake punches a wall with his pitching hand.

[Coach34]

Not messing with you Coach, but the Girodo Miracle was Butch. The other Butch miracle was Lindgren.

The Henderson miracle was how Maxed out Cole Gordon, Riley Self, Spencer Price, Payton Plumlee, and had Jake Mangum into a Saturday-Ready state. Then Jake punches a wall with his pitching hand.

my bad- mixed up years.

But my point still stands.

If Scloss wanted to be the HC at State he would be. He knew he was our pick but wouldnt wait until after the CWS to accept the position. He took TCU's contract extension instead. He wasnt serious about being our HC

[The Federalist Engineer]

I feel like a Henderson troll saying this - but the man lost his Kentucky job after a 15-15 season. He finished 4th in the East that year.

Man, would it be nice to be 500 at MSU these days.

Seeing as how MSU is keeping Lemonis and he will Deon the program and start from Zero - plus the transfer-out of the kids not interested in a Dead Last Hattrick. He may not win +10 games until 2025.

[Coach34]

Still nobody is explaining to me how Schloss isn’t the HC since he wanted it so much. Why would he not wait until after the CWS when he knew he was guy? I’ll tell you why why- he was playing us to get more money at TCU. That’s why our ass hired the guy coaching at Indians.

And when we fire the ex-Indiana coach after he won a Natty- we gonna be hiring the North Florida or La Tech coach next

[Todd4State]

Still nobody is explaining to me how Schloss isn’t the HC since he wanted it so much. Why would he not wait until after the CWS when he knew he was guy? I’ll tell you why why- he was playing us to get more money at TCU. That’s why our ass hired the guy coaching at Indians.

And when we fire the ex-Indiana coach after he won a Natty- we gonna be hiring the North Florida or La Tech coach next

Because after TCU pressured him Schloss then pressured Cohen into making a decision while we were still playing in Omaha. Which pissed off Cohen. So Cohen nixed it and then went back after McDonnell. Who turned it down and suggested we hire Lemonis.

[Todd4State]

That eliminates Dallas Baptist and East Carolina for sure. So yeah- We will be looking to hire from nobody schools.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a PAC 12 coach like Mark Wasikowski from Oregon.

Similar to LSU ending up with Jay Johnson from Arizona.

PAC 12 is a really good baseball league but doesn't have SEC support.

The SEC, ACC, and Big 12 are the big baseball leagues probably in that order. So getting a guy from an ACC or Big 12 school likely isn't going to happen.

[Quaoarsking]

That eliminates Dallas Baptist and East Carolina for sure. So yeah- We will be looking to hire from nobody schools.

I'm pretty sure we could pry Campbell's coach away from them, assuming that there isn't another P5 school with deeper pockets AND a willingness to use those deeper pockets on baseball who snatches him away from us. Central Michigan's coach is another that would very likely take our job.

I think both of them would have us almost always in a Regional and hosting somewhat regularly. I literally could not care less whether our next coach comes from a "nobody" school or a "somebody" school and long and he's good, and all evidence suggests both of those are.

[Homedawg]

I'm sure we can find a good coach. But I can assure you there will people that say no thanks at way lesser jobs due to the fact we are canning a guy two years removed from a natty. Still don't believe it's anywhere near 100% that lem is gone.

[basedog]

It doesn't have to be a "blue blood" HC or a top D1, I don't understand all the talk that we can't find a good coach at any level or division. It's just getting the right fit. Purcell seems to be a great example although its still early.

[Coach34]

Because after TCU pressured him Schloss then pressured Cohen into making a decision while we were still playing in Omaha. Which pissed off Cohen. So Cohen nixed it and then went back after McDonnell. Who turned it down and suggested we hire Lemonis.

That doesnt really make sense. If he was our guy- all Cohen had to say was "I'm announcing you after the CWS out of respect to Henderson"

If Schloss wanted the job- he would have said- ok.

See how easy that is?

[raymonddawg]

I felt like Schloss was interested last go round but I have no idea. But he was coming off like 4 consecutive CWS trips he had all the bargaining chips. Maybe he kicked the tires with Cohen but ultimately just decided he wanted to try to win a natty at TCU.

Still agree that we won't be having to worry about hiring a head coach this offseason anyway.

[PMDawg]

Its comical some of these replies. Henderson is 61 years old. Has a job with no expectations. Got fired at Kentucky. Coaches ALWAYS ask about the previous guy. Always. And in the SEC- they already know about the previous guy.

What bothers me is people just blow off the fact that on our last hire- we were turned down multiple times and had to hire Indiana's HC. Coming off CWS appearances. Cohen didnt mess up any search- he hired someone highly recommended that would take the job.

I understand your point, and your reasoning. You're probably right. But it's always dangerous to deal in absolutes (remember when hiring Howland was a "pipe dream"?). While it's fair to say it's unlikely that we'll pull a big name from a current P5 or G5 head coach...never say never. Maybe we'll get lucky and be surprised.

[KB21]

If they do fire Lemonis, then his replacement will likely not be a big name guy but for different reasons that are being said here. It has more to do with the fact that long tenured coaches like Dan McDonnell and Brian O?Connor have no interest in leaving their current jobs.

When you get to the mid major guys, Justin Haire and Cliff Godwin aren?t choosing Alabama over Mississippi State.

[Homedawg]

If they do fire Lemonis, then his replacement will likely not be a big name guy but for different reasons that are being said here. It has more to do with the fact that long tenured coaches like Dan McDonnell and Brian O?Connor have no interest in leaving their current jobs.

When you get to the mid major guys, Justin Haire and Cliff Godwin aren?t choosing Alabama over Mississippi State.

Those reasons have. Wen mentioned. Over and over.

[confucius say]

Its comical some of these replies. Henderson is 61 years old. Has a job with no expectations. Got fired at Kentucky. Coaches ALWAYS ask about the previous guy. Always. And in the SEC- they already know about the previous guy.

What bothers me is people just blow off the fact that on our last hire- we were turned down multiple times and had to hire Indiana's HC. Coming off CWS appearances. Cohen didnt mess up any search- he hired someone highly recommended that would take the job.

Agree.
I will say though, if we make a move the worst we would do is lane Burroughs. We at least wouldn't be soft anymore

[confucius say]

That doesnt really make sense. If he was our guy- all Cohen had to say was "I'm announcing you after the CWS out of respect to Henderson"

If Schloss wanted the job- he would have said- ok.

See how easy that is?

Meh, not without it being in writing. You don't release a 7 figure job (or thereabouts) unless you have a done deal on another 7 figure job.

[Coach34]

Meh, not without it being in writing. You don't release a 7 figure job (or thereabouts) unless you have a done deal on another 7 figure job.

college football coaches do it all the time- why cant baseball coaches? You have agents that are doing the contracts anyway. The coaches dont handle that BS. If he was the guy? He would be our coach now

[Coach34]

Agree.
I will say though, if we make a move the worst we would do is lane Burroughs. We at least wouldn't be soft anymore

I wouldnt be opposed to that. He is a good coach