It's not just us...LSU pitchers dropping like right and left

[Coach34]

LSU has lost 3 pitchers so far and a 4th left the game last night with an apparent injury. UPig losing guys. Mizzou lost guys and tumbled. It's a college baseball problem

[Extendedcab]

OK, what is the solution? Do we delay the age when kids can start baseball?

[confucius say]

Ark lost another this week. Dylan Carter I think is his name.

It's velocity. We were at 89-92 for decades. And the last 10 years we've gone to 94-97. The body isn't built for that, so it breaks.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I've also seen people theorize its the "year round" nature of baseball now. Kids don't have 3 months of not throwing a baseball where their elbow may be able to heal up.

Personally, I bet it's more velo related than use. But I don't know the science of it at all. Take 2 kids, one born in 1988 and the other 2001. Putting them as college Srs in 2010 and the other 2023. We know velo has picked up 2, 3, 4 mph in those 13 years, and I just find ot hard to believe the travel ball and practice culture changed THAT much to where these UCL tears are overwork related and not velo.

[tcdog70]

I started watching MSU baseball in the 60's for years we never lost pitchers to injuries. In the last 6-7 years Pitchers dropping like flies. why?

[Leroy Jenkins]

I started watching MSU baseball in the 60's for years we never lost pitchers to injuries. In the last 6-7 years Pitchers dropping like flies. why?

No single factor. Its a combo of a) throwing too much too early, b) the quest for velo and max effort, c) not taking enough time off.

a+b+c= exploding elbows.

[maroonmania]

Everyone is dealing with pitching injuries. Our specific problem is we have way too many pitchers that are totally ineffective and cant throw strikes even when they are healthy.

[Homedawg]

Weighted balls.... no question they help w velo. And no doubt in my mind the more you use them the more likely you have arm issues.

[smootness]

Take a guy like Greg Maddux - if you coached him to throw with max effort and maximize his velocity, would he have had more injuries? The answer is, of course he would. That is the main difference, though pitching more often as a kid definitely doesn't help.

[sandjunky]

Weighted balls.... no question they help w velo. And no doubt in my mind the more you use them the more likely you have arm issues.

Got dang weighted balls - tell where I can find the weightless balls please

Ignorance abounds - all anecdotal - show me the studies

Oldest has used for 5 years now - hasn?t had a single arm issue - throws year round too - takes time away from mound though - he also does arm care, recovery, and mobility daily

Btw heavier (than 5oz) typically are used to help clean mechanics up because it helps the player feel while the lighter (than 5oz) are used for arm speed

[DownwardDawg]

No single factor. Its a combo of a) throwing too much too early, b) the quest for velo and max effort, c) not taking enough time off.

a+b+c= exploding elbows.

This is it. It's pretty simple. I'm not a baseball expert but I'm a problem solver (basically) for my employer. Trying to increase velocity and travel ball. Too much work and no recovery time. Just like equipment. Simple.

[Coach34]

This is it. It's pretty simple. I'm not a baseball expert but I'm a problem solver (basically) for my employer. Trying to increase velocity and travel ball. Too much work and no recovery time. Just like equipment. Simple.

Exactly.

Little34's good friend (the little shit that is responsible for making me a basketball dad for talking Little34 into playing) plays year round and has been for years. His Dad even got mad that he wanted to play basketball. Kid would have basketball practice and games during the week then they travel and go to baseball tournaments on the weekend. He pitches on Saturday and Sunday's most times. Had to shut him down back in March with elbow tenderness. Still not well so an MRI is next. 14 years old

Told them 2 years ago he was playing too much. These parents dont listen

After kids have been doing this for 5-6-7-8 years, then they go to college and the ones who havent broken down yet- end up finally doing so

[calidawg]

People love to sing the praises of Wes Johnson. Yall clearly have amnesia from when everyone wanted to run him off from here several years back for injuring half our staff.

[calidawg]

I was at at event where the speaker was a very high level physician at a prominent children's hospital and someone asked him if he was king for a day what rule would he create and he said to eliminate kids specializing in single sports. That's how bad the epidemic is of injuries

[DownwardDawg]

Exactly.

Little34's good friend (the little shit that is responsible for making me a basketball dad for talking Little34 into playing) plays year round and has been for years. His Dad even got mad that he wanted to play basketball. Kid would have basketball practice and games during the week then they travel and go to baseball tournaments on the weekend. He pitches on Saturday and Sunday's most times. Had to shut him down back in March with elbow tenderness. Still not well so an MRI is next. 14 years old

Told them 2 years ago he was playing too much. These parents dont listen

After kids have been doing this for 5-6-7-8 years, then they go to college and the ones who havent broken down yet- end up finally doing so

Yep!!

[DownwardDawg]

People love to sing the praises of Wes Johnson. Yall clearly have amnesia from when everyone wanted to run him off from here several years back for injuring half our staff.

Our pitchers were dropping like flies when he was here. He decimated our pitching staff.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Our pitchers were dropping like flies when he was here. He decimated our pitching staff.

But did he, or was that just the start of the trend we -and everyone else in baseball- are still dealing with?

You can blame his weighted balls if you want too. My understanding is that most college programs use them. But you can't deny the problem of UCL tears has stayed long after he left

[Really Clark?]

Got dang weighted balls - tell where I can find the weightless balls please

Ignorance abounds - all anecdotal - show me the studies

Oldest has used for 5 years now - hasn?t had a single arm issue - throws year round too - takes time away from mound though - he also does arm care, recovery, and mobility daily

Btw heavier (than 5oz) typically are used to help clean mechanics up because it helps the player feel while the lighter (than 5oz) are used for arm speed

There are a several studies on this. The main significant age increase for UCL damage is 15-19 years of age with an overall 343% increase of all players from 2003 to 2014. Weighted balls increase velocity, increase velocity beyond the strength and ROM of a players shoulder and elbow increases arm injury significantly. It is a direct correlation. And it's exponential to the weight, more torque on the elbow the heavier you go. Underweight ball throwing programs have shown less stress on the arm and the ability to increase velocity as well. Just at a smaller and slower rate. Because the shoulder and elbow are strengthening and increasing ROM with less stress.

Overuse, sport specific training, year long play, overweight training are all factors and have caused an epidemic of arm injuries. That's not an opinion either, that from the doctors, trainers and researchers with studies.

[msstate7]

Weighted balls increase injury risk, but they also increase draft stock. I think it's worth the risk actually

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Weighted balls increase injury risk, but they also increase draft stock. I think it's worth the risk actually

It sucks but agreed.

A) "you'll throw 90 and have low injury risk

B) you'll throw 96 but likely have Tommy John, afterwhich you are likely to get back to 96"

Which path would you pick to make the MLB? B) is the clear winner

[RockyDog]

Exactly.

Little34's good friend (the little shit that is responsible for making me a basketball dad for talking Little34 into playing) plays year round and has been for years. His Dad even got mad that he wanted to play basketball. Kid would have basketball practice and games during the week then they travel and go to baseball tournaments on the weekend. He pitches on Saturday and Sunday's most times. Had to shut him down back in March with elbow tenderness. Still not well so an MRI is next. 14 years old

Told them 2 years ago he was playing too much. These parents dont listen

After kids have been doing this for 5-6-7-8 years, then they go to college and the ones who havent broken down yet- end up finally doing so

Some parents don't care. Their son's "success" is a status symbol for them. My oldest is 21 now. But i can vividly remember a few of the kids who were good pitchers would get worked like a dog. I remember one kid in particular was on a pretty competitive AAA/Major team in the Brandon area. He would pitch on a 2-4 innings in the opening game for his team in a USSSA tournament, would sub for the AA team with his school buddies on Saturday in a Perfect Game tournament and pitch 2-3 innings for them to get them a win, and then back to his USSSA team the next day to pitch again in bracket play.

Of the 30-40 kids mine played with over the 9-13 year old years in "travel" ball, anywhere from AA to AAA/Major, I can count on one hand the number that are currently still playing beyond community college. Parents abuse their kids in their pre-teen years for those dumb trophies and rings and the only payoff in most cases is burnout.

[sandjunky]

Some parents don't care. Their son's "success" is a status symbol for them. My oldest is 21 now. But i can vividly remember a few of the kids who were good pitchers would get worked like a dog. I remember one kid in particular was on a pretty competitive AAA/Major team in the Brandon area. He would pitch on a 2-4 innings in the opening game for his team in a USSSA tournament, would sub for the AA team with his school buddies on Saturday in a Perfect Game tournament and pitch 2-3 innings for them to get them a win, and then back to his USSSA team the next day to pitch again in bracket play.

Of the 30-40 kids mine played with over the 9-13 year old years in "travel" ball, anywhere from AA to AAA/Major, I can count on one hand the number that are currently still playing beyond community college. Parents abuse their kids in their pre-teen years for those dumb trophies and rings and the only payoff in most cases is burnout.

That sucks and not worth it

We 11u played up in a 12u tournament 2 weekends ago - our guy struck out 12/13 batted outs - he hit 65 pitches and I walked out thanked him and handed the ball to the next kid

9 of our 10 pitch - we used 6 pitchers over 4 games - none reached 70 pitches

On the flip side - watched a kid that weekend for a 12u team pitch in 3 games and catch in the other

[Really Clark?]

That sucks and not worth it

We 11u played up in a 12u tournament 2 weekends ago - our guy struck out 12/13 batted outs - he hit 65 pitches and I walked out thanked him and handed the ball to the next kid

9 of our 10 pitch - we used 6 pitchers over 4 games - none reached 70 pitches

On the flip side - watched a kid that weekend for a 12u team pitch in 3 games and catch in the other

Sound like you are doing it about right. All of your pitchers just pitch in 1 game?

[Homedawg]

Got dang weighted balls - tell where I can find the weightless balls please

Ignorance abounds - all anecdotal - show me the studies

Oldest has used for 5 years now - hasn?t had a single arm issue - throws year round too - takes time away from mound though - he also does arm care, recovery, and mobility daily

Btw heavier (than 5oz) typically are used to help clean mechanics up because it helps the player feel while the lighter (than 5oz) are used for arm speed
Didn't say everyone who uses them will be hurt. I said, I believe they are ONE of the causes of more arm injuries. Not the only reason mind you. Not all smokers get lung cancer.... but the odds are greater if you smoke.

[Homedawg]

Weighted balls increase injury risk, but they also increase draft stock. I think it's worth the risk actually

I don't necessarily disagree w this. Just have to weigh the options.

[sandjunky]

Sound like you are doing it about right. All of your pitchers just pitch in 1 game?

In a one day tournament - absolutely unless it?s 15 or less pitches

Two day tournament- 30 pitches or less - they can pitch on Sunday - still capped at 70-75 total for weekend

[Really Clark?]

In a one day tournament - absolutely unless it?s 15 or less pitches

Two day tournament- 30 pitches or less - they can pitch on Sunday - still capped at 70-75 total for weekend

There you go. Good pitch count management.

Just way too many who don't. Either coaches who are chasing plastic or parents who run their kids through multiple teams to get innings.

[Leroy Jenkins]

*Back in my day* We didn't have no fancy weighted balls; we would cut a slit in a tennis ball and stuff it with pennies.

[grandprairiedog]

Some parents don't care. Their son's "success" is a status symbol for them. My oldest is 21 now. But i can vividly remember a few of the kids who were good pitchers would get worked like a dog. I remember one kid in particular was on a pretty competitive AAA/Major team in the Brandon area. He would pitch on a 2-4 innings in the opening game for his team in a USSSA tournament, would sub for the AA team with his school buddies on Saturday in a Perfect Game tournament and pitch 2-3 innings for them to get them a win, and then back to his USSSA team the next day to pitch again in bracket play.

Of the 30-40 kids mine played with over the 9-13 year old years in "travel" ball, anywhere from AA to AAA/Major, I can count on one hand the number that are currently still playing beyond community college. Parents abuse their kids in their pre-teen years for those dumb trophies and rings and the only payoff in most cases is burnout.

That's actually a good percentage (Hand full) of players still playing beyond comm. college. Baseball is a natural funnel to eliminate the less talented players.

[SpaceBully]

NT

[SpaceBully]

No need to throw 95-100. A good 90-92 fastball, 85 changeup, and a 80 slider.....all with good control, can make MLB all day long and on Sundays too.

[Todd4State]

I think the strength and conditioning and private training just needs to evolve. All of this is still relatively new. It's not like football where I feel like the training is super advanced IMO.

They've started to put pitch count limits on pitchers in travel ball and that was needed.

The other thing is now I think they need parameters for how much velocity someone can safely add in an offseason. Going from 84 to 92 is probably too big of a jump in an offseason for a high school pitcher. They need to do some research to come up with some guidelines. And those guidelines also need to include the physical build of the pitcher too. There is a difference between a pitcher that is 6'5" 195 in high school and a pitcher that is 6'0" 180.