Keep Lemo, Can Foxhall? Or can both?

[ZedFedder]

Now that the defense has (generally) gotten better and improved, where do you stand?

At this point of the year, I see one reason and one reason alone that we are in the predicament we are in: pitching.

I was on the "get rid of both" train for a while, but I have settled into letting Lemonis have one more year with a new PC.

What do you think?

[TheLostDawg]

Now that the defense has (generally) gotten better and improved, where do you stand?

At this point of the year, I see one reason and one reason alone that we are in the predicament we are in: pitching.

I was on the "get rid of both" train for a while, but I have settled into letting Lemonis have one more year with a new PC.

What do you think?

I think that Lemonis should have fired him last year and tied his fate with fox. However if I was the AD I'd sit down with Lemonis and ask him what's his plans for the future. If the first thing isn't fire foxhall then I would have no doubt Lemonis needs to go. From what I understand we have the best facilities in the country. No excuse to be where we are. It's not like we need to ask what he needs. He has it, other than more nil money.

[CaptainObvious]

Nope. New HC with a new staff. Did you not see our players along the dugout rail yucking it up making each other laugh last night as things got progressively worse? And that isn?t the first time cameras have found our guys finding humor while watching their teammates getting pummeled. At this point, this program is an embarrassment to our University and Fans.

At what point do the stockholders and the Board demand the CEO and fellow officers resign for detrimental performance to the company?

[Pancho]

Cohen hired JoMO, McRae Penson and Lemo. 3 are gone and the other should depart next

[msstate7]

Once you start telling coaches he has to get rid of his assistants, that coach is done. Either let em do it his way or get rid of him imo

[msstate7]

Cohen hired JoMO, McRae Penson and Lemo. 3 are gone and the other should depart next

Hired both basketball coaches, and both look like winners so far

[Pancho]

see how i didn't mention those 2?

[msstate7]

see how i didn't mention those 2?

Maybe I missed the point of post. I thought it was a knock on Cohen, so I though it fair to point out he did have some apparent good hires.

[Mjoelner34]

Both have to go. If you keep Lemonis, it's pretty evident without being said that if he misses post-season play 3 years in a row, he is fired. So, what caliber of pitching coach are you going to find who is willing to hitch himself to that situation? The answer is just somebody looking for a paycheck. If Lemonis would have fired Foxhall last year, like he should have, then I would have given him another year. But not now.

[Todd4State]

Get back to me in about three weeks.

If we have a losing season Lemonis goes.

If we have a winning season and miss Hoover- not sure how I would feel.

Make Hoover Lemonis stays.

Get got the next three weekends and today and make a regional Lemonis stays.

[sandjunky]

$hit can everyone all the way down to baseball social media guy

[Cooterpoot]

Both should be fired. Problem is, no way Gotro is staying through another coaching change IMO. I wish we could've canned Lemonis and give Gotro a HC showcase over the last weeks of the season. If he got more out of them, he takes over. If not, then it's full reboot.

[Quaoarsking]

Maybe I missed the point of post. I thought it was a knock on Cohen, so I though it fair to point out he did have some apparent good hires.

Also Lemonis was a good hire even though he should be fired now.

[TNDawg35]

I think that Lemonis should have fired him last year and tied his fate with fox. However if I was the AD I'd sit down with Lemonis and ask him what's his plans for the future. If the first thing isn't fire foxhall then I would have no doubt Lemonis needs to go. From what I understand we have the best facilities in the country. No excuse to be where we are. It's not like we need to ask what he needs. He has it, other than more nil money.

You can’t fire a pitching coach who just come off a Natty and set the ncaa record for strikeouts per game and overall strikeouts by pitching staff along with winning assistant of the year in college baseball, who also had major injuries last year. Was he bad, YES. But there is no way Lemonis should have fired him after that.

Now for it to happen 2 years in a row, you absolutely fire him! To Be honest, I would have done it already, but I understand waiting to the end of the year I reckon. No question tho, he goes…

[Dawgface]

All in staff. Won?t happen tho.

[Leroy Jenkins]

A fish rots from the head. Whatever expectations the boss sets, that's what everyone will devolve to. If Lemonis isn't capable of setting the expectation then he has to go. If he demands accountability and axes the dead weight he can stay.

If he has to be told to do it, he ain't the guy.

[Cowbell]

Both should be fired. Problem is, no way Gotro is staying through another coaching change IMO. I wish we could've canned Lemonis and give Gotro a HC showcase over the last weeks of the season. If he got more out of them, he takes over. If not, then it's full reboot.

This

[MrBigStuff]

I can "predict" the post season discussion...Lemonis brings up the "youth" excuse as the quote "we're a young team in an old man's league" was attributed to Lemonis by the TV crew last night. That may be true but I think we all were prepared for a "step back" after 2021 but this trend of wallowing at the bottom of the league for the 2nd year is unacceptable. I'm no expert, but the eye test of our team over the past 2 seasons indicates major changes are required.

Foxhall HAS to go. With a team ERA north of 9, I would be embarrassed enough to resign on my own regardless of the injuries. May be unfair, but if we're considered an "elite program" this just can't happen.

I've seen enough of Lemonis to have zero confidence this disaster gets turned around without making a change at the top, too.

[yjnkdawg]

I think that Lemonis should have fired him last year and tied his fate with fox. However if I was the AD I'd sit down with Lemonis and ask him what's his plans for the future. If the first thing isn't fire foxhall then I would have no doubt Lemonis needs to go. From what I understand we have the best facilities in the country. No excuse to be where we are. It's not like we need to ask what he needs. He has it, other than more nil money.

AD's don't tell HC's who to hire or fire (micromanaging). An AD gives the HC what his expectations,goals, etc. are but it is up to the HC to either make the necessary changes, or whatever is needed to accomplish this (swim) or don't do it and sink.

[MaroonFlounder]

Keeping Lemonis would only delay the inevitable. What decent pitching coach would come in knowing the head guy is a 3rd straight disaster season away from being gone, unless he thinks he can fix the pitching staff good enough to get promoted to the HC position?

[yjnkdawg]

I can "predict" the post season discussion...Lemonis brings up the "youth" excuse as the quote "we're a young team in an old man's league" was attributed to Lemonis by the TV crew last night. That may be true but I think we all were prepared for a "step back" after 2021 but this trend of wallowing at the bottom of the league for the 2nd year is unacceptable. I'm no expert, but the eye test of our team over the past 2 seasons indicates major changes are required.

Foxhall HAS to go. With a team ERA north of 9, I would be embarrassed enough to resign on my own regardless of the injuries. May be unfair, but if we're considered an "elite program" this just can't happen.

I've seen enough of Lemonis to have zero confidence this disaster gets turned around without making a change at the top, too.

Our coaches nor our players were prepared ready to play last year. Still waving that banner and thinking all the other teams would lay down because we were the CWS champions I guess. I'm pretty sure Lemonis even admitted that they weren't prepared to play when the season started. Concerning right now, you know there is a big problem when the HC starts shuffling his line up as much as is being done, this deep into the season, and it's not due to injuries

[maroonmania]

I'm not sure you can have much confidence in Lem hiring a different pitching given its pretty obvious he doesn't know what the problem is currently with what Fox is doing. He would just be taking another gamble on someone else and hoping it works. But I know that I've never pulled for a baseball team at any level where I felt it was a moral victory when the opponent didn't score double digit runs.

[The Federalist Engineer]

9.49 ERA in the SEC with 303 average against

That with NIL darling pitchers like Stinnett being iced and KC Hunt only pitching about 2 innings per weekend.

If those cats were throwing as starters, the ERA would be 10+

Pitching is an atrocity

[TopDawg]

At this point in the season if Lemonis is still letting Foxhall handle the in-game Pitching decisions he should be fired for that. If Lemonis is making the in-game pitching decisions he should be fired. The only way to salvage this team is to fire them both.

[Saltydog]

Now that the defense has (generally) gotten better and improved, where do you stand?

At this point of the year, I see one reason and one reason alone that we are in the predicament we are in: pitching.

I was on the "get rid of both" train for a while, but I have settled into letting Lemonis have one more year with a new PC.

What do you think?

Barring a miracle finish to this season then this is like the commercial where slash is auditioning and this is easier than that. They have to go, all of them, yes and that includes GoTro unless the new Coach wants him. Lemonis and Fox isn't debatable.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Torch the barn kill the rats

[SPMT]

They all need to go, unfortunately.

They don?t have any ?IT?.

[CaptainObvious]

If State keeps anyone on this staff, and fans continue to show up, I?d have to so we have a Fanbase that should not be trusted to drive or vote.

[EdwardDrayton]

Torch the barn kill the rats

<do not laugh> <do not laugh> LOL!!!!

[Cowbell]

Even with all our pitchers healthy, we don't have enough competent guys to pitch a full SEC weekend. That alone, in the portal error, should cost anybody their job in this league.

[CaptainObvious]

Can Hancock pitch?

[TheLostDawg]

AD's don't tell HC's who to hire or fire (micromanaging). An AD gives the HC what his expectations,goals, etc. are but it is up to the HC to either make the necessary changes, or whatever is needed to accomplish this (swim) or don't do it and sink.

Exactly that's why you ask him what's his plan and if Lemonis doesn't have enough sense to realize foxhall must go then you let them both go.

[TheLostDawg]

Even with all our pitchers healthy, we don't have enough competent guys to pitch a full SEC weekend. That alone, in the portal error, should cost anybody their job in this league.

True

[TheLostDawg]

Get back to me in about three weeks.

If we have a losing season Lemonis goes.

If we have a winning season and miss Hoover- not sure how I would feel.

Make Hoover Lemonis stays.

Get got the next three weekends and today and make a regional Lemonis stays.

I don't disagree but if I were the AD of we end up in the gray zone I'd do like I said. Approach Lemonis, let him know he's on the hot seat and if he tells me if he is retained that he's keeping the same staff, no matter what other smoke he blows, Lemonis would be gone. Lemonis would have to tell me he's getting rid of fox and getting a top PC and explain how he's going to fix our roster

[StarkVegasSteve]

What should we do: Can all of their asses

What will we do: maybe fire Foxhall but most likely run it back another year.

[parabrave]

The team needs new leadership. They all have to go.

[State82]

What should we do: Can all of their asses

What will we do: maybe fire Foxhall but most likely run it back another year.

I would, unfortunately, say you are probably correct. But, continue this shit for another three weeks and it may be a different story.

[schddog72]

Both have to go. If you keep Lemonis, it's pretty evident without being said that if he misses post-season play 3 years in a row, he is fired. So, what caliber of pitching coach are you going to find who is willing to hitch himself to that situation? The answer is just somebody looking for a paycheck. If Lemonis would have fired Foxhall last year, like he should have, then I would have given him another year. But not now.

THIS, THIS, a thousand times this!! Been saying this for weeks!! No way you could ever get a halfway decent pitching coach to come to S'Vegas and work for a lame duck coach. If allowed to stay another year, Lemonis would absolutely be a dead man walking . . . .

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Fire them all.

[SpaceWranglerDawg]

Not reading the thread, but would like it documented that they should all be fired. Hell, give it to Gautreau and call it a day. Just throw the towel in on the season and do it now.

[bulldogcountry1]

I really don't want to have to fire Lemonis because it's just not a good look for the program. We're probably not going to make a big splash with the new hire, and we will probably lose some of the few good players we actually have.

We still have to fire him. That's how bad it is. I could make a long list of big reasons why, but we all know them already. The main reason is that Lemonis has looked clueless in the dugout as the program has crumbled around him. He even states that he has no answers in the press conferences. I don't think I've seen a guy look and sound this defeated before. How can you let him continue to run the program if he has no answers and no plan?

[DownwardDawg]

I really don't want to have to fire Lemonis because it's just not a good look for the program. We're probably not going to make a big splash with the new hire, and we will probably lose some of the few good players we actually have.

We still have to fire him. That's how bad it is. I could make a long list of big reasons why, but we all know them already. The main reason is that Lemonis has looked clueless in the dugout as the program has crumbled around him. He even states that he has no answers in the press conferences. I don't think I've seen a guy look and sound this defeated before. How can you let him continue to run the program if he has no answers and no plan?
We should be able to hire just about any coach we want. Just about. We can make a huge splash if we try.

[KOdawg1]

I'm still of the opinion that you fire Fox and give Lemonis one more year with a new pitching coach under the assumption that his ass is gone if we don't comfortably make a regional. I just think with the nucleus we have returning, we could still be in for a big year next year with improvements on the mound. I mean, if our pitching is just middle of the conference this year, we'd easily be in a regional.

I know. It's unacceptable and not nearly the standard that we have here. And he's nearly used up all his credit for the national title. But I think next year should be the year unless we lose out or something

[ZedFedder]

You get to WF pitching coach and keep Gotro and it really won?t matter who is in the head chair.

[TheLostDawg]

THIS, THIS, a thousand times this!! Been saying this for weeks!! No way you could ever get a halfway decent pitching coach to come to S'Vegas and work for a lame duck coach. If allowed to stay another year, Lemonis would absolutely be a dead man walking . . . .

The only thing that changes things
1 Lemonis has won a national championship two years ago
2 the thing we're missing is pitching
3 we have everything a pitching coach needs to succeed
4 ourfan base supports baseball.

So normally you'd be correct but it's not that simple

[TheLostDawg]

I'm still of the opinion that you fire Fox and give Lemonis one more year with a new pitching coach under the assumption that his ass is gone if we don't comfortably make a regional. I just think with the nucleus we have returning, we could still be in for a big year next year with improvements on the mound. I mean, if our pitching is just middle of the conference this year, we'd easily be in a regional.

I know. It's unacceptable and not nearly the standard that we have here. And he's nearly used up all his credit for the national title. But I think next year should be the year unless we lose out or something

Yes in with you.
If Lemonis doesn't make a regional, Hoover then he needs to go. Otherwise hopefully our AD will do as I mentioned above

[bobtail bob]

Lemonis is Fox. They are the same sloth. It’s clear we need a rebuilt pitching staff and I want neither of these wet blankets doing it. Make up some phony reason for Lemonis resigning and let him bow out gracefully with a nice behind the scenes parting gift. A fresh start is needed for everyone involved.

[trob115]

Total clean house

[Coach34]

We should be able to hire just about any coach we want. Just about. We can make a huge splash if we try.

This is where our fans get delusional. 99% of HC's from top 20 programs arent leaving where they are.

We are going to hire another Indiana level P5 guy, an up and comer from a mid-level, or a top assistant from a top program. We arent getting the HC from Candy, Louisville, or any place like that. East Carolina's coach is home to his school- he isnt leaving. So if we fire him- know thats where our next coach is coming from.

[Cooterpoot]

This is where our fans get delusional. 99% of HC's from top 20 programs arent leaving where they are.

We are going to hire another Indiana level P5 guy, an up and comer from a mid-level, or a top assistant from a top program. We arent getting the HC from Candy, Louisville, or any place like that. East Carolina's coach is home to his school- he isnt leaving. So if we fire him- know thats where our next coach is coming from.

Incorrect. We'll get a good coach. We had Schloss hired last time had we wanted to. We've got a lot of money and can use it. We don't have a stupid AD anymore who screwed up our last search either.

[Coach34]

Incorrect. We'll get a good coach. We had Schloss hired last time had we wanted to. We've got a lot of money and can use it. We don't have a stupid AD anymore who screwed up our last search either.

Schloss was only involved because TCU was considering firing him (forcing to resign-same thing). He had alot of issues going on behind the scenes

[ScooterDog]

This will be Mr. Selmons first major decision at MSU. Whether he keeps Lemo or lets him and others go, I look forward to his comments and reasons from this very intelligent AD. It will be very interesting, no doubt.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I have a bad feeling everyone is going to be back next year unless Lemonis makes the change. Zac is not going to tell Lem who he needs to hire or fire

[SPMT]

Ray Charles can see the pitching coach needs to gtfo. If he refuses to replace him, then fire every swinging dick barring favorable interviews from other assistants.

But, Lemonis?.I?m like C34, you aren?t getting a top 20 guy most likely. Just think of the negatives, the main one being fired two years after a national championship. That?s a turn off to a lot of baseball coaches I imagine. It would be for me even if you doubled my salary if I?m comfortable where I am. Baseball is my favorite sport, but it?s a different game than the other two.

With saying that, we are clueless in some areas. From hearing chatter, it?s a culture problem in that they are spoiled/don?t have to do much. Pro team mindset and the maturity isn?t there for that mentality.

I would love to be completely wrong.

[yjnkdawg]

This is where our fans get delusional. 99% of HC's from top 20 programs arent leaving where they are.

We are going to hire another Indiana level P5 guy, an up and comer from a mid-level, or a top assistant from a top program. We arent getting the HC from Candy, Louisville, or any place like that. East Carolina's coach is home to his school- he isnt leaving. So if we fire him- know thats where our next coach is coming from.

I agree. Just because a highly rated D1 HC may possibly use us to get what he wants from his current university, that is not the same as a highly rated D1 HC saying I'm leaving what I have here and I what I have accomplished here and packing my bags and moving to StarkVegas to be the HC at MSU. I don't see that happening either.

[Todd4State]

I have a bad feeling everyone is going to be back next year unless Lemonis makes the change. Zac is not going to tell Lem who he needs to hire or fire

I'm not worried about that in the least.

When certain people are upset change will occur.

[Todd4State]

Ray Charles can see the pitching coach needs to gtfo. If he refuses to replace him, then fire every swinging dick barring favorable interviews from other assistants.

But, Lemonis?.I?m like C34, you aren?t getting a top 20 guy most likely. Just think of the negatives, the main one being fired two years after a national championship. That?s a turn off to a lot of baseball coaches I imagine. It would be for me even if you doubled my salary if I?m comfortable where I am. Baseball is my favorite sport, but it?s a different game than the other two.

With saying that, we are clueless in some areas. From hearing chatter, it?s a culture problem in that they are spoiled/don?t have to do much. Pro team mindset and the maturity isn?t there for that mentality.

I would love to be completely wrong.

I've heard those rumors about the pro team mindset.

Gautreau will let guys do it their way and then make corrections when they fail.

Not sure what Foxhall does- but I've heard rumors about our pitchers getting some sort of a guide and then they are on their own. Those types of things are typically exaggerated though.

[HoopsDawg]

I can't help it. I still like Lemonis. I think he has to make a change at pitching coach. But he should get another year unless we have serious culture issues. Recruiting going forward looks good.

[Todd4State]

I can't help it. I still like Lemonis. I think he has to make a change at pitching coach. But he should get another year unless we have serious culture issues. Recruiting going forward looks good.

The fact that our hitters aren't at our pitchers throats and both haven't killed Foxhall tells me that our culture is probably OK- at least from the outside looking in.

Having 24 wins at this point with an ERA over 6 is actually pretty impressive to me as far as coaching goes.

[Todd4State]

I don't disagree but if I were the AD of we end up in the gray zone I'd do like I said. Approach Lemonis, let him know he's on the hot seat and if he tells me if he is retained that he's keeping the same staff, no matter what other smoke he blows, Lemonis would be gone. Lemonis would have to tell me he's getting rid of fox and getting a top PC and explain how he's going to fix our roster

I absolutely agree. I don't think you would have to tell Lemonis that he is on the hot seat. I'm sure he knows. I don't think he is oblivious to the situation.

I know some fans are afraid that he will refuse to fire Foxhall. I just don't think that is actually going to be the case. I'm sure his wife would kick his ass if he cost himself a 1.whatever million dollar job to be loyal to a guy that isn't performing.

But yes, if I am wrong then you have to fire both if Lemonis refuses to fire Foxhall. I'm sure if they are that close as friends the AD will step up and be the bad guy. Then Lemonis can always say "Hey I didn't really want to but the boosters complained".

[Todd4State]

Schloss was only involved because TCU was considering firing him (forcing to resign-same thing). He had alot of issues going on behind the scenes

Something to think about on that end though- TCU only knew because everyone else in the baseball world knew that he was coming here. It was the worst kept secret out there. And that was because Cohen basically made it obvious who he was going to pick.

He basically got on the radio and described Schlossnagle's resume'. Or described it enough to where anyone could basically narrow it down.

If TCU's AD doesn't know that there was interest until later on in the search then things likely go down differently. That and the fact we made a miracle run to Omaha.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Not reading the thread, but would like it documented that they should all be fired. Hell, give it to Gautreau and call it a day. Just throw the towel in on the season and do it now.


Something to think about on that end though- TCU only knew because everyone else in the baseball world knew that he was coming here. It was the worst kept secret out there. And that was because Cohen basically made it obvious who he was going to pick.

He basically got on the radio and described Schlossnagle's resume'. Or described it enough to where anyone could basically narrow it down.

If TCU's AD doesn't know that there was interest until later on in the search then things likely go down differently. That and the fact we made a miracle run to Omaha.

Cohen could write a little book about this episode...

"Negotiating like a complete Dumb Ass - Letting your rancid personality shine bright"

[Pancho]

Cohen talks too much like a sorority girl

[Goldendawg]

Got to do what we got to do for the good of the program. Do you think we are on the hook for about $1.25 million per year for three more years (did we roll over to 4 again after last year?), or do you think there is a lesser buy out number if things have gone wrong? Hail State?

[Goldendawg]

Cohen could write a little book about this episode...

"Negotiating like a complete Dumb Ass - Letting your rancid personality shine bright"

With foreword by Keith Carter regarding contract negotiations.******

[PMDawg]

$hit can everyone all the way down to baseball social media guy

This is the way.